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9:00 PM
It's awful and that's why it's great
 
I dunno
 
@Rapptz Short circuit evaluation FTW.
 
it wasn't just cheap
I watched some Fringe and BSG episodes which were cheap
it was unbelievably awful
 
I mean Daleks literally have plungers as weapons
Come on
 
@CatPlusPlus They're super-powered plungers that can crush a man's skull! :P
 
9:01 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Correct me if I'm wrong but his engine is a one man project. He doesn't need bleeding edge and the advice in that book is sure to come in handy. To dismiss it by saying it's 4 years old and outdates is idiotic.
 
Engines outdate and that's why no design principles from the past are okay anymore
OOP is dead man
 
@Borgleader I haven't dismissed it. I merely pointed out the fact that parts of it can be outdated.
 
we also aren't programming them in a 30 year old language
 
Structured programming, what is this shit
 
@DeadMG Last time I've checked C++11 was 2 years ago
 
9:02 PM
That makes 20% of the language from 2 years ago and 80% from 20 years ago
 
ITT: C++11 is 20% of C++
In litres?
 
unless you use MS compilers, then C++11 is going to be viable in another 5 years or so.
 
(Not actual metrics)
 
@BartekBanachewicz By mass (of the C++ standard when printed out), obviously.
 
@Insilico maybe hits on Stack Overflow, dunno
 
9:03 PM
They've updated C++ 2 years ago therefore it's a 2-year old language
 
@TomKerr You mean like how they implemented all of the most important consumer-facing C++11 features before the Standard shipped?
 
Makes sense
 
@Insilico aahh, of course
that makes sense
 
On 20 pound paper.
:-P
 
:) agree to disagree.
 
9:04 PM
I am going to print standard and weigh it tomorrow
 
(btw it has certain amount of things in it and you can take percentage of it which is pretty obvious when you're not trying... something I don't even know)
 
@BartekBanachewicz Might be easier to just take a diff of C++03 and C++11 PDFs. :-P
 
of course there is
the C++ Standard is only about 1200 pages or something, IIRC
The Stand is longer than The Standard
 
If I can't print that on my home printer, that means nobody can print it
 
@CatPlusPlus I think that if we take 20% of things and add a bit of stuff, then we certainly will have decisive opinion.
 
9:05 PM
Also I like the implication that there's more things added in C++11 than there already were in C++98
 
Like entire C
Which is even older oh my god
 
you make "entire" sound like it's substantial
 
@Borgleader @Xeo Concerning the separation of the Model into Model, ModelMesh and ModelMeshPart, the reasoning is in this Coliru: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/… /cc @DomagojPandža
 
why not say "they added the entire of integral addition"
 
9:07 PM
@DeadMG The whole thing
 
Amazing
 
Yay for 20% of C++11 !
 
@ThePhD ModelMeshSubObjectPart
 
@ScottW The latest C11 draft I can find is 701 pages.
 
9:08 PM
@melak47 I don't think I need to split it up that deep. x3
 
@BartekBanachewicz 20% off on C++11, only today!
 
(N1570 if you really care to look at the C11 standard)
 
yeah, so, where were we
 
@BartekBanachewicz Something about 20% and C++11
 
@Insilico and the fact I can't Boost.Fusion
 
9:09 PM
Though, to be honest....
 
I'm thinking I should train my voice
It sucks :<
 
I think I may want to just do Model and ModelMesh/Mesh, because the 3 parts are a holy hell of a lot to keep track of. :c
@CatPlusPlus I'm going to try to train my voice this summer.
 
@ThePhD you don't really have to store the different, er, modelmeshparts in different buffers
 
@melak47 Just have one big Index/Vertex buffer and keep counts and offsets?
 
@CatPlusPlus use text-to-speech like Stephen Hawking
 
9:10 PM
@CatPlusPlus I bet you are joining a choir with the ulterior motive of getting closer to a certain girl.
 
I was thinking of doing that. I just never actually ... .. got around to doing it.
 
@Rapptz No :(
@Rapptz I know :(
 
@Pubby Like Telkitty
 
@ThePhD hehe
 
@ScottW I genuinely don't remember the reason
 
9:11 PM
@StackedCrooked Yeah no
 
srs tho
yeaaaah
 
@CatPlusPlus Then why would you train your voice?
 
@ThePhD I don't know if saving those vertex or index buffer binds will make any performance difference though :p
 
@StackedCrooked He's doing it so he can sing to her. And woo her heart and have her swoon and fall into his arms.
 
@ThePhD you could also have one vertexbuffer, but several index buffers (one per part :p)
 
9:12 PM
@StackedCrooked Because I suck at voice
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit what's that?
 
I'm usually speaking too quietly
 
@melak47 That does sound logical.
 
So I've been recoding my engine to use smart pointers. Is it fairly normal that I don't have any shared_ptrs yet? And only std::unique_ptrs?
 
yes
it's a good and right thing
 
9:13 PM
Also I need to improve brain->voice bandwidth somehow because it's a horrible bottleneck
 
@ThePhD saves you having to keep track of offsets, but you'll have to add them to all the indices in the buffer :/
 
I have a friend that only uses shared_ptrs and tells me I am doing this wrong
 
Also get a better fucking accent
 
no, he's wrong.
 
@Grapes sure
 
9:13 PM
(I'm never going to sing)
 
thanks @DeadMG
 
@Grapes ignore him
 
unique_ptr > shared_ptr whenever you can apply it.
 
(There isn't enough alcohol in the world for me to sing)
 
ok, so far I only have unique_ptrs
 
9:13 PM
it's cheaper in performance but more importantly correctness/semantics.
 
@CatPlusPlus Talk with your fists!
 
@Grapes that's great then
 
yes, I think of it in terms of ownership
 
My secret desire is to become YouTube star
 
@Grapes wow, sorry for being so harsh on you first time
 
9:14 PM
Awesome.
 
@CatPlusPlus Well, there go my hopes and dreams. =[
 
@Grapes You greedy bastard.
 
I came here yesterday using raw pointers, today I am almost done recoding my engine using smart pointers with 0 raw pointer !
2
 
hats off guys
 
only 1 all nighter, but worth it
 
9:15 PM
I wish every noob was like that
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You should work on it
 
I've never met a nicer, more helpful group of smart people than this chat.
 
Um guys... what has gotten in to us? Since when did we ever become "helpful"?
 
^ This.
 
@CatPlusPlus so sing for youtube
 
9:16 PM
often i'm unsure whether in my interface i should expect std::shared_pointer<T> or a T*
 
I dunno, I try to always be helpful to newcomers.
 
3 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
(There isn't enough alcohol in the world for me to sing)
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb the former of course
 
(Also dance)
 
@CatPlusPlus if you want to be a youtube star...
 
9:17 PM
if i do the former, ppl that don't use std::shared_pointer, but boost.:shared_pointer or QSharedPointer will be upset
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb Unless ownership matters, T*
 
I am nearly done wrapping the parts of Bullet I need from T* to shared_ptr
 
@CatPlusPlus ah
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb oh, too bad?
unless you really need it under C++03
 
@CatPlusPlus so for example a RowIterator should accept the Table pointer it iterates over by raw pointer?
 
9:18 PM
Yes
Well, I'd keep references in interface unless it's an optional argument
But raw type definitely
 
Iterator doesn't need to participate in ownership
 
what if ownership matters. is there a good example?
should i then use std::shared_ptr, boost::shared_ptr, QSharedPointer etc?
there are always N-1 set of people that will be upset
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb of course
 
std::shared_ptr
 
9:19 PM
hmm
 
Xeo
@JohannesSchaub-litb std::shared_ptr.
 
The disparity is not something you can solve
 
Xeo
You can convert freely between any shared_ptr implementation with a little trick
 
So you just go with the standard option
 
9:20 PM
lol
 
wtf, who has that much rep?
 
Jon Skeet
 
I just spent 5 minutes trying to load a cpp file in an image editor. I need more sleep.
 
Xeo
9
Q: Conversion from boost::shared_ptr to std::shared_ptr?

XeoI got a library that internally uses Boost's version of shared_ptr and exposes only those. For my application, I'd like to use std::shared_ptr whenever possible though. Sadly, there is no direct conversion between the two types, as the ref counting stuff is implementation dependent. Is there any...

Basically, just keep the other shared_ptr type in a no-op deleter.
 
@Pubby wat...
 
9:21 PM
Yeah but that's not your concern as interface provider
People can deal with that
 
@Xeo i know the trick
but it won't make the other shared_ptr prevent deletion of the object i think?
 
Xeo
It will
since you're always keeping one copy in the noop deleter
 
user142019
Great.
 
user142019
Player can move around. :3
 
9:22 PM
It'd be quite a useless trick if the object could die in the process
 
@Xeo wait, that's clever indeed. thanks :)
 
@BartekBanachewicz lolphin-powered
@Rapptz I know :( I'd like to.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit thanks for not explaining at all
 
@BartekBanachewicz np
 
It's his own engine i think
 
9:24 PM
@Zoidberg hmm?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit hey, come on, what's that
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz I'm writing a video game.
 
@Zoidberg Have you seen infoq.com/presentations/Reflection-OOP-Social? If so, what do you think?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I believe I found it a while ago. Is it any good?
 
It's his.
 
9:25 PM
@Zoidberg on GH?
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's WIP
 
user142019
@BenjaminGruenbaum I haven't.
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz No.
 
@Zoidberg why?
 
shared_ptr<T> { p.get(), [p](void*) {} }
 
user142019
9:26 PM
@BartekBanachewicz because I haven't thought of that yet. :v
 
Mmh, do I have to odr-use for the capture to have an effect? Nah, that's for defaults.
 
@LucDanton heey. nice :)
 
@Zoidberg It's about how Java OOP is wrong, but more generally, it's about a very different approach to OOP I think you'll like it
 
@Zoidberg so come on. What'cha waiting for. I want to see the code :)
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Yeah, only for defaults.
@BartekBanachewicz Not like that wasn't posted as an answer... :P
 
user142019
9:26 PM
@BartekBanachewicz whokay gimme a few minutes.
 
@LucDanton i like the trick the other guy did to restore the original boost/std shared pointer given a std/boost one
 
Why do I have such problems with libraries?
 
didn't even know there is a get_deleter
 
@Zoidberg I gotta ask if you are gonna finish it? :)
 
@Pawnguy7 Because you're incomplete.
 
user142019
9:27 PM
Maybe.
 
Xeo
@Xeo What will you do after your death? Do you have a plan? If you don't plan for your after-death, then you are contradicting Herb and yourself. — curiousguy 3 mins ago
What.
Also, fuck that, the curiousidiot is back.
 
oh that guy
 
lol
 
Oh crap wtf
> mainFbo.AttachTexture(GL_TEXTURE_2D, mainTexture.getId());
 
9:28 PM
@JohannesSchaub-litb That is very nice.
 
what the hell was I thinking
 
the "committee member"
 
@Xeo wuuuuuuuuut.............
 
I think I'll try something similar for my own type-erasure thingies, e.g. unique functions holding unique functions.
 
@bamboon now I totally don't want one. I want 50.
 
@BartekBanachewicz ^^ same happend to me.
 
@EtiennedeMartel it hurts all over all well
 
@EtiennedeMartel Well.. it's true.
 
@EtiennedeMartel tumblr.txt
 
9:30 PM
Come to think of it going function<S0> -> function<S1> -> function<S0> is pretty unlikely.
 
A rare example of gender discrimination that makes complete sense.
 
@Xeo in fact i think it is not only an optimization, but it prevents a memory leak. because if not done I think you have a cyclic reference of the shared pointers
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You're insane?!
 
Shame it's only happened in a negative context.
 
You're.. one of them. :(
 
9:30 PM
@JohannesSchaub-litb Good thinking.
 
Xeo
@JohannesSchaub-litb I don't think so.
 
@Rapptz You think street drug gangs are run by women?
 
Those dumblrs as I like to call them.
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz github.com/rightfold/voxx
 
Xeo
Since you're not keeping a copy of the std one in the original boost one.
 
9:31 PM
@EtiennedeMartel I want to know how did you end up on Tumblr. :P
 
Xeo
Only in a new one.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Are you saying that only men commit crimes and violence?
 
@Rapptz Don't tell me you're one of those pathetic equality zealots? Who believe that you forfeit your right to partake in a civilised society the moment you say the word "male" or the word "female"?
@Rapptz No. Did I say that? No. Quote me saying that. Oh, that's right, you can't.
 
@Zoidberg text-based! <3 have a star
 
Then what are you saying because it's going way over my head.
 
9:31 PM
A chain of reference counts.
 
@Rapptz Yes I can see that
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz :P
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Right, a chain, but never a cycle.
 
@DomagojPandža I have evil friends.
 
@Zoidberg hey, come on, get it to working point at shut the mouths of faggets here
 
Xeo
9:32 PM
Atleast I don't think there's ever a way to make a cycle.
Since you can't give the original shared_ptr only a new deleter.
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz lol ok :P
 
The point is to focus attention to the best possible place to stamp out excessive violence. To a vastly greater degree do you see the problem in males, so focus on boys. No point going into schools and spending £4,000,000 on teaching girls to put down their knives and play with Barbies instead, when they are generally not the problem anyway.
 
Egalitarianism ()—or, rarely, equalitarianism—is a trend of thought that favors equality for particular categories of, or for all, living entities. Egalitarian doctrines maintain that all humans are equal in fundamental worth or social status, according to The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. The Cultural theory of risk holds egalitarianism as defined by (1) a negative attitude towards rules and principles, and (2) a positive attitude towards group decision-making, with fatalism termed as its opposite. According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, the term has two distinct definitions ...
 
user142019
You can already walk around!
 
user142019
And it prints "Potion" if you're on a potion!
 
9:33 PM
:)
 
@Xeo hmm i think you are right. spoke too soon :)
 
Xeo
You might be able to get a DAG, though.
 
@Zoidberg I can test that if you think there's something to test already
 
@Rapptz That's hardly relevant.
 
Xeo
But if you're dealing with so many different shared_ptrs, something seems wrong. :)
 
9:33 PM
You asked what I am.
I have answered you.
 
@Rapptz No I didn't!
 
@Zoidberg I can also promise that I will say terrible things to you if you abandon the project, if you want :)
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz not really much yet, but for build and run I use clang++ ./src/**.cpp -std=c++11 -stdlib=libc++ -lncurses && ./a.out.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit => Don't tell me you're one of those pathetic equality zealots? => Indirect question
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz :D
 
9:34 PM
@Zoidberg please SCons
 
@Zoidberg Use ninja
 
user142019
I'll use Waf when I'm in the mood.
 
Likewise, I don't know what a "pathetic equality zealot" even is. However it seems borderline offensive.
 
so I'll wait with testing until that
@Rapptz lol
 
9:35 PM
You pathetic equality zealot.
Hey, I actually kinda like the term.
PEZ.
Peee Zeeeee.
Ezpz.
 
tumblr.txt
 
Ezedpzed.
 
borderline is probably generous :)
 
@Rapptz Equality zealots are offensive
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Your Mom's offensive!
 
9:38 PM
ur*
 
like this - OH NOES SOMEONE SAID UR ATTRACTIVE THEY ARE SO "SEXIST"
fucking asswipes
 
Oh.
Social Justice Warriors, SJWs, dumblrs, etc
People are stupid
 
they're the same people who put employment targets in place, so that employers are forced to employ 50% men, 50% women. of course, that means (a) net productivity decreases due to pregnancy leaves, and (b) some men who are better than the women in their interview group, do not get the job, because the company has too many men. This is gender discrimination.
The same applies to ethnicity, sexuality, etc etc blah blah
 
Essentially.
 
We need a fucking meritocracy back. Deal with discrimination in schools and at home, not out in every fucking place every
 
9:40 PM
I would agree with ethnicity, if the scales weren't massively drastically skewed to white heterosexual males to start with.
 
@Zoidberg you commited a.out lol
 
user142019
Yes. :P
 
those things are put in place because meritocracies are prone to nepotism, racism, etc.
 
9:41 PM
if you want to say they should be done away with, then you're going to have to propose alternatives that fix that problem.
 
@Rapptz What the?
 
Her face alone is disturbing.
 
@DomagojPandža Extreme feminists.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Wait a second.
You can't assume productivity will drop because of pregnancy leaves.
You're assuming that all of the women - or a good chunk of them - are all going to get knocked up at the same time.
 
9:44 PM
They don't have to
 
That's completely ignorant of people who come from utterly different walks of life.
 
Pregnancy leave can be like 5 months, and in those 5 months other people can get pregnant and have their leave
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yeah, we should really watch those women closely in case they get emotional or start having periods. That would really kill their productivity.
 
To blame productivity decrease on pregnancy leave is just asinine.
 
Anyway I only agree with the underlying principle of it
 
9:45 PM
Companies can easily accomodate for people going on pregnancy leave.
 
i.e. Absolute equality (50% men 50% female) is dumb
 
At first, I thought that was a bandaid.
Then I realized that was his leg bone.
 
I am still holding my leg in my lap. That's where it will be for the rest of the evening.
 
Fuck you
Just sayin
 
9:47 PM
There's also a video on YouTube.
 
One time, I had to listen to someone describe in explicit detail them getting raped.
I couldn't walk properly for the rest of the day. =/
 
My groin hurt.
 
what
 
@CatPlusPlus Curiosity disgusted the cat.
 
9:48 PM
I dunno. It was some crazy placebo or empathy effect.
 
Q: namespace A { } class A { }; <- legal?, if yes, sane?
 
Most of the things that make me cringe have to do with catheters.
 
@Rapptz x.O
 
definitely not sane
 
Catheters are the devil.
 
9:49 PM
@TomKerr reason being?
 
Btw. @CatPlusPlus. Negative friction at work:
 
@ThePhD Yeah man.. Trust me. Some people do weird shit..
 
just adds confusion
 
It's.. ugh
 
I don't want to know what catheter is
 
9:50 PM
@TomKerr not exactly. I mean... Texture<Texture::Type::Tex2D> t;
 
That's what I'm getting from this
 
In Medicine, a catheter is a thin tube extruded from medical grade materials serving a broad range of functions. Catheters are medical devices that can be inserted in the body to treat diseases or perform a surgical procedure. By modifying the material or adjusting the way catheters are manufactured, it is possible to tailor catheters for cardiovascular, urological, gastrointestinal, neurovascular, and ophthalmic applications. Catheters can be inserted into a body cavity, duct, or vessel. Functionally, they allow drainage, administration of fluids or gases, access by surgical instrume...
 
its like using variables with the same capitalization as the type.
 
Type is an enum
 
More specifically, a Foley catheter. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foley_catheter
 
9:50 PM
I want it in the separate header
 
I had to see one inserted into someone so they could contiue going to the bathroom.
 
there are no partial classes in C++, so I thought about that
 
@BartekBanachewicz No, no
 
@CatPlusPlus oh, that didn't short-circuit :)
 
maybe I misunderstand the question
 
9:51 PM
But I'm not credible so you know check the standard
 
@BartekBanachewicz Partial classes, that's a C# thingie to spread a class across multiple files?
 
@DomagojPandža Yes
 
@DomagojPandža Yep.
 
Well, class Texture; and namespace TextureDesc it is
 
But tehcnically you don't need it.
You just have a declaration in one place,
and then multiple CPP files instantiate different functions.
 
9:52 PM
It's nice for generated files
 
Which gives me Texture<TextureDesc::Type::Tex2D> t;
I think you can live with that, no?
@CatPlusPlus come on, don't start again.
 
Ugh.
 
user142019
<type_traits> y u no std::number_of_enumerations. :'(
 
Welp.
 
In work game I generate a partial class with API keys and shit during the build
 
9:53 PM
@ThePhD ?
 
Time to rewrite my Model implementation to be better.
The current iteration does not play nice at all with Skeletal ANimations.
 
There's also sealed that prevents inheritance. I'm not really a big fan of C#, having some fun with it as I'm working on puppy's website's backend. Attributes are fun, but have a lot of implicit automagic functionality which I don't really appreciate.
 
@DomagojPandža working on what
 
@DomagojPandža I thougth C# lacked a lot of implicit stuff.
 
@DomagojPandža What automagic?
Attributes just sit there
I guess you could say things that reflect them and act on that are magic
 
9:55 PM
Hm.
 
It's a useful thing
 
Model, Mesh || Model, ModelMesh ....
 
And I wouldn't call it implicit
 
Well, their nature is - welp - declarative programming. Existing ones do things "automagically" and I like knowing what's going on. Reflection feels a bit... Weird. But I'm just an imperative cunt taking a stroll along Declarative Penis Street.
 
I kind've want to avoid taking potentially good names from people who use the engine and using namespace in their CPP files.
Maybe BasicModel ?
Since it's meant to cover a very basic functionality of the model...
 
9:56 PM
@ThePhD why not just put your stuff in a namespace?
 
@TomKerr It already is.
Furrovine::Graphics::
 
@BartekBanachewicz CodePuppy. It's a bit basic, so he asked me to write something bettah.
 
@ThePhD so what's the problem exactly?
 
oh, I missed the using namespace part.
 
@DomagojPandža does he pay you for that?
 
9:57 PM
using namespace considered folly, let them hang themselves.
 
Declarative programming is great
 
imho.
 
@ThePhD Not your problem
 
@BartekBanachewicz Nah, I enjoy it. Besides, it's for a good cause.
 
@DomagojPandža sure! I was just curious
 
9:58 PM
@DomagojPandža How does automagic imperative programming lets you know what's going on exactly?
 
It's never your problem, don't try to solve it
 
WEll, okay.
 
@LucDanton There's no automagic with programming languages that are primarily imperative and don't depend on the runtime too much. Imperative programming is basically not only telling the computer what to do, but how to do it.
 
hm, I think I can use inheritance #ohnoes
 
Model and Mesh it is.
 
9:59 PM
Something I like, I guess.
 

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