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12:03 AM
Hm.
I wonder if I can have default arguments after variadic arguments...
 
@NicolBolas Would you mind repeating your claim ("I don't see any evidence of the problem you suggest at all.") now? I mean, just an example: obvious NARQ sits for 15+hours with ~15 views. I cast the first close vote/comment (and linked it in the lounge to get some traction). I can really conclude none other than you are clearly underestimating the niche effect. (Possibly by over-estimating your own involvement, and that of other c++ frequenters by proxy). And this is only scratching the surface, really. <rant/> — sehe 6 secs ago
@ThePhD Nope. Try it :)
 
@sehe Aww, really?
I was about to try it. :c
 
Sorry. Didn't mean to spoil your fun
 
... Huh
I wonder if this kind of variadic stuff would work.
LEt'S FIND OUT!
 
Ell
8675-309
 
12:11 AM
Jenny, who's this?
 
Ell
:D
 
age test?
haven't been in the lounge in like a week
 
Ell
I have a habit of writing song lyrics here occasionally
Let's play twister, let's play risk
 
You never really know if winning this will be enough
 
12:18 AM
Dat Ikea bed-couch
 
Ell
Haha
 
...
 
@DomagojPandža lawl wtf
 
so I have a question
 
> Start toé 'a mitaine, faut qu'j'aille chier!
 
so I heard on C++ forum that visual studio has slightly different syntax
am I correct
and if so, what syntax differs
 
@Johann VS is an IDE, it doesn't "have" syntax.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I'll have you know, I can't parse that
 
Visual Studio is an IDE. MSVC#, a compiler contained in the package is an implementation that compiles vanilla C++ with some Microsoft custom extensions which mostly relax rules rather than adding. It does not support C++11 in full. If you're referring to the "managed" version of C++, C++/CLI -- that's a different story and not really C++.
 
@Johann They mean extensions (like 'external templates' or with /clr). And they should probably mention different semantics (i.e. broken two-phase-lookup, buggyadics etc.)
 
BURNINATE THAT LINK!
 
oh ok C++/CLI
 
C++/CLI is not the same as C++.
 
You should add a local domain lookup rule to translate cplusplus.com to 127.0.0.1
 
ah might as well use notepad++
it is simpler anyway
 
12:28 AM
@Johann It doesn't say that on the linked page. But seriously, BURN that link.
 
burn the link...but no
it is like a son to me
 
Woops.
 
BURN the link that is as a son to you.
Not kidding
 
I can't return by value anymore.
 
@ThePhD Because the copy constructor is not accessible
 
12:29 AM
We have dedicated our lives to killing cplusplus.com with fire before it lays eggs. We were too late, it seems.
 
I have doomed us all
2
 
@sehe No, I mean, because I have a die signal now.
 
Have a star
 
Have 'nother
 
T Pop () {
	if ( Wait() == 1 ) { // if wait is 1, the object is dying
		return LockedPop( );
	}
}
 
12:30 AM
@ThePhD LOL. It seems your thread pool is working :)
 
irony stars
sigh
 
@ThePhD The tab is strong with this one.
2
 
You asked for them
@DomagojPandža lol
 
I untabbed it, lol
But, uh
 
tabbed in the back!
 
12:31 AM
so should I delete VS if I have N++
 
Nope.
 
lolwat, no.
 
@sehe Et tu, Spacus?
 
Why would you do that?
 
You should install Vim first.
 
12:31 AM
so...keep it why?
 
@ThePhD Nominative ending in -u?
 
vim?
 
...
 
Lol.
 
It says "Perl" on his SO profile. That explains a lot, actually.
 
12:32 AM
@sehe There, -us.
 
@Johann Because it is a good IDE for C#. Well, and maybe MFC apps. Or c++-cli projects.
 
VS C# is ok
 
But, uh.
 
@ThePhD It ought to be Space, really, with a MACRON
 
How do I return the value now? @_@
@sehe Accent aigu?
 
12:33 AM
yeah I guess I'll keep VS- for now
 
@sehe Macron?
 
Yup, mācrōn: āēīōū
 
Et tu, Spacē?
 
Jesus Christ, some fucking retard (19 years old) hit three girls with a BMW after driving like a maniac through a populated area. We've got enough stigma on young drivers as it is. Goddamn, stupid son of a bitch.
 
LOL
 
12:35 AM
hey just started learning ruby - syntax seems related to python - major differences in syntax between ruby and python?
ugh the comments timing is terrible
:(
 
@DomagojPandža 19y/o be hittin' on girls. What's surprising is: how did he get a BMW
 
Rich daddy, as usual.
 
Is there a designated, like
exception
 
@ThePhD Ugh. Tabs.
 
for cancellation / termination ?
@Rapptz Yay, Tabs. <3
 
12:38 AM
@ThePhD std::system_error, std::bad_function_call etc
 
so ruby python syntax differences?
 
I was more thinking in terms of like,
thread-cancellation
 
like std::interrupt_error or something
 
Damn. :/
 
12:39 AM
@Johann nah, it's the same, basically
 
minute difference?
aren't OOP syntax different
 
@Rapptz Ooh, that's what the constructor of std::thread throws!
Neato.
 
@DomagojPandža Was that a beemer? Could be Octavia?
 
@MartinJames BMW. Hit three girls on their way home.
 
@DomagojPandža Oh, shit :(((
 
12:41 AM
 
Fuck.
 
I'll always be fascinated by the force of impact that can knock the shoes off your feet:
 
@DomagojPandža Don't forget medical personnel will remove clothes for on-site emergency response
 
so is OOP different?
 
@Johann Please, stop the trolling. It was better when you only doomed us all. I will ignore you for now.
 
12:43 AM
@sehe Yes, but they only set evidence markers around first-impact zones -- for reconstruction.
 
programming questions = trolling
the magical world of SO chat
 
Entitlement Suppression Protocols engaged...
 
@DomagojPandža Mmm. I need better optical zoom. This is bad
1 min ago, by Johann
so is OOP different?
Now stop it ^
If we can't call that trolling, it's just plain...
 
So...
nobody knows
 
Ruby is obviously a different language than Python, and OOP is different from no-OOP.
 
12:45 AM
That's why we call it OOP.
 
@Johann Indeed. And that's why we act as if we don't want to tell you :)
Inane questions beget inane responses. And I happen to have less patience than on other fridays.
 
Yes, we're all losers here. I'd suggest asking in the real C++ room.

<!Real> C++ Room

ISO<14882:2011> I have nothing to say.
 
so this is just a derp place to let off steam
 
No.
Please behave.
 
You can throw things other than a std::exception, right (or things derived from it)?
 
12:47 AM
@Johann You might start by lurking. And observe for yourself this is in no way a place for derping.
@ThePhD Literally, anything
 
Can you catch anything, too?
like, I dunno. catch ( int ) ?
 
oh no the other definition of derping
 
Yes. Preferrably, by const&
 
@Johann No. We do intense computer science research here. We are also proficient with cats, owls and necromancy.
 
Hm.
 
12:48 AM
@DomagojPandža Hit the mental plonk
 
I can't tell if any of this is real, sarcasm, or a mix of real and sarcasm
 
Is this the real life?
Is it just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide...
 
Then lurk more to figure it out.
 
so do any of you all know perl 6
 
@DomagojPandža Oh - I missed the necromancy, unless you're referring to all the dead apps that the loungers keep coming up with?
 
12:52 AM
Template necromancy, of course! The forbidden fruits of compile-time discretization. The dark arts of the fallen Jedi Derpwans of the Lounge.
 
@DomagojPandža That ought to be a Uni course.
'Advanced Template Necromancy, 304'
 
8 mins ago, by sehe
Inane questions beget inane responses. And I happen to have less patience than on other fridays.
If you are so impatient to lurk, you can always read transcripts. Start here and work your way backwards in time
Now is a lowtraffic time. But that doesn't mean we like to respond to silly derpstorms
 
So I have a conceptual question that has nothing to do with programming but it is just to get some opinions.
 
Oh gawd...
 
Ohai. Just ask. And perhaps eye the newbie hints :)
 
12:55 AM
oh come on does anyone know perl 6 is straightforward
 
@MartinJames No overreacting in the lounge
 
I believe Etienne's idea to friendlify the newbie hints is taking a turn for the worst.
 
just want to see what it is like
 
@Johann Go! There's bound to be sites
 
If I create a personal email server and decide to use a desktop computer as a server, I would have to keep the computer on at all times, right?
 
12:55 AM
@DemCodeLines Yes. Maintenance excluded, during which time your server would -- naturally -- be down.
 
darn it
what the heck.
 
@DemCodeLines Use an old laptop and a static IP address.
 
@DemCodeLines Best to. But: don't run a mail server unless you know what you're doing. If SPF, DKIM, spoofing, relay doesn't mean everything for you, don't start.
 
a computer sacrifice to the internet gods ;)
 
I am obviously not going to go out and buy a frigging $1000 server and I am afraid I will overheat my computer if I keep it on all the time.
@sehe "Best to." what do you mean?
 
12:57 AM
Keep it on at all times. Wellbehaved SMTP servers will retry delivery at regular times for a speicified period of time
 
Also, why shouldn't I start? Because it will be hard or something else?
 
@DemCodeLines It would take a HUGE amount of email traffic and a HUGE pipe to heat up hardware.
 
@sehe Also, it's worth mentioning that even if you do know these things, developing a better solution than just using Google's mail services through your domain is a fool's errand -- most likely.
 
@DemCodeLines because it will be insecure
@MartinJames Or deficient cooling :)
 
Fighting spam is a constant battle. And intensive, better to use someone else's computers and give them 5 (or was it 2?) bucks a month.
 
12:59 AM
My mail server is an underpowered AMD geode box, with 512Mb RAM :)
It's always on, though. And it uses <5W
 
Well it won't really ever have a HUGE traffic because it will be for family purposes.
 
@sehe Oooh, that's sexy.
 
@DemCodeLines If anyone discloses the domain name or bots sniff it out -- it will get traffic.
 
So, if you care about family... think about reliability (what if your server goes offline, what if you loose their data, worse: what if you fuck up their privacy)
@DomagojPandža And even otherwise. Any public facing (anonymous) IP will get traffic. Especially on wellknown ports
 
If I keep the "server" computer on standby, will that mess everything up, or will it be ok and keep running?
 
1:01 AM
anyone here who is not a bot?
 
@DomagojPandža Well, I will try to make sure it doesn't happen.
 
We're not saying it's impossible, nor too hard. But it does require knowledge and some dedicated work and planning. Most don't have this stuff in abundance.
 
That looks nothing like a geode!
 
I have enough patience to learn and keep improving it.
 
1:02 AM
@DemCodeLines Stand by is off. No applications are running
 
Get a USB PC. :Đ
 
@LucDanton Well, the Geode is the CPU, the housing is Koolu (which went extinct)
 
@DemCodeLines Online - working. Offline - not working. Quite literally.
 
@DomagojPandža These days, yes!
 
1:03 AM
@DemCodeLines It's okay to try but I wouldn't want to make actual use of my first e-mail server.
 
My Timeout class is basically a very strong typedef around std::chrono::milliseconds
I like it. <3
 
I mean, if I keep the computer running for like 3 straight weeks for just server purposes, wouldn't something go wrong in it by then?
 
@DemCodeLines Learn that before you bring it upon your family. For about 2 years :)
 
Stronk.
 
@DemCodeLines ?! Only if you intend to run Windoze, maybe
 
1:04 AM
@DemCodeLines My computer has been running for 6 months uninterrupted. (Unless when I opted in to interrupt for very short intervals.)
 
Considering the PC is kinda old.
 
@DemCodeLines how old?
 
Nah. Ill be most likely using Linux/Red Hat server, not Windows Server, as its too expensive :D
 
@DemCodeLines Well, if you insist: yes your computer will spontaneously combust after precisely 42 days. Happy now?
Red Hat? When was the last time you played with linux? 2000?
 
No, a year ago :D
 
1:05 AM
I don't remember Red Hat anymore. xd
 
CentOS for you then
 
Not really redhat, I read that in a tutorial :D
 
O god
@DomagojPandža I just use Cygwin on windows at work. I guess that makes me a half RedHat customer
 
@DemCodeLines Uhm, if you need tutorials... Well, I don't want to be the messenger of bad news.
 
No no, I was just looking them up.
Its not that I specifically need it, but its always good to have necessary resources and documents around
Let me ask you guys this, in this "project," what OS would serve a better task? Windows Server or Linux?
For this project specifically
 
1:11 AM
hey could someone do me a favor?
I just installed VS 2012 but the C++ core Libraries failed to install
I'm guessing the actual installer exe is corrup as thats what the internet says. Could someone upload just the installer from an ISO they have?
 
Well, the only leverage is the price point. Free versus not free. :P
 
@JABFreeware I'm sure MS have it on download
 
That is all?
 
@sehe only the whole ISO or the web installer
 
@JABFreeware Well, pick one :)
 
1:12 AM
@sehe I dont have the bandwidth at home to download something that big
I downloaded the ISO at school
 
@DemCodeLines what?
 
lol: laughing out loud
 
@sehe I know that
what is he lol about?
 
@JABFreeware ... if someone uploads the installer for you, what are you going to do?
 
1:14 AM
I asked if price is the only difference between Windows Server and Linux
 
@LucDanton use it to replace the one that is currently in the ISO
@DemCodeLines oh
 
@JABFreeware Sooo, that means you must somehow grab it or acquire it, right?
 
@LucDanton I have the ISO like I said
 
Ah, you want the executable, not the whole shebang.
 
downloaded from dreamspark
@LucDanton correct
 
1:15 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Question: why do you like std::chrono so much? :O
 
@ThePhD Prolly because it is a well factored API. And by well factored, I mean: allowing full flexibility with no unnecessary overhead, while abstracting the OS specifics. There are flaws too, but, contrast it with, say, iostreams library and see what I mean.
 
Maybe I should go with Oracle's Solaris OS
 
@DemCodeLines There is no OpenSolaris anymore :)
I used to run OpenSolaris before Oracle killed bought Sun
 
@LucDanton Or could I download the web installer and do a repair?
 
Now, I'm just running ZFS on linux
 
1:18 AM
and just have it detect that the Core Libaries are missing
 
@JABFreeware No idea.
I suppose that's worth a try? It's very lightweight isn't it?
 
You have unique problems :)
 
@LucDanton yeah
I'll try that later. Thanks
@sehe unique to you. Unique to others. Boring to some. Ussual to others still
:D
 
how much work experience is needed for a student to break into the field?
 
bye all!
 
1:21 AM
Become a poet while you are waiting for downloads. You have talent :/
 
Alright, I need some good advice here. Should I go with Ubuntu or Red Hat for the server operating system?
 
Yes
 
Prolog!
 
@DemCodeLines Server Fault, Super User
@CatPlusPlus Good morning
 
1:30 AM
@CatPlusPlus Good Morning Cat-San~
How's Uni going?
 
Uh I was here all along why are you saying hello all of a sudden
 
Because you spoke!
 
StealthyCat.
 
Zweihander or Greatsword?
Choices choices
 
Man... I'm tired.
 
1:47 AM
A solution could be: grab sleep
 
@CatPlusPlus Man-serpent Greatsword
@DomagojPandža Tell me a bed-time story. <3
 
don't forget to swish and flick the fuck out of your wand
 
user1357851
@ThePhD you wanna a younger kid to read you a bed-time story? :p
 
2:05 AM
@Telkitty Of course. :D
 
Oh, gawd, the thing from Australia is online.
 
what thing?
 
2:30 AM
Ow. I have yet to add checks for my variant operator==. That means in the meantime something like variant<T> v {}, w {}; v == w; always compiles even when T isn't equality-comparable. The operator== visits its operands, and calls itself recursively because variant<T> is constructible from T :|
 
g'morning Lounge<C++>
 
Blighttown :argh:
 
how "protected" do you consider something inside namespace details to be, should to take extra precaution and do all it takes for a developer not "fucking things up" while using something inside it or just say; "don't put this in this type, because bad things will happen"?
 
details is internals
 
@CatPlusPlus take this as an example (I've been using it a lot lately) codepad.org/OHqUvMA2, I shouldn't worry about a developer putting details::End among the template arguments to ignore_filter<>?
it's a silly example, but relevant
I mean, I could make struct End a template and put everything passed as argument as parameters to prevent this every causing trouble.. but it will somewhat make it less readable and if it's not needed maybe it's best not to
 
2:47 AM
On the javascript chat, they have a bot that tells jokes, can we have nice things?
 
@refp No
 
@sehe: Then the community member who decided to forcibly disassociate himself from the community should have considered that before forcibly disassociating himself from it. He didn't have to delete his account, you know. He could have just left it there. If someone wants to be a jerk to the community by taking their ball and going home, I'm fine with unpersoning them and all of their non-textual contributions, no matter the consequences. Let that be a lesson to anyone else who might want to delete their account because they're angry over some pointless slight. — Nicol Bolas 1 min ago
 
@Mikhail No
 
^ am I the only one who think this lacks logic?
 
@refp In this particular you can switch the implementation to use an accumulator, then you don't need the sentinel.
 
2:48 AM
If you really want you can do some internal macros if you're that worried?
Though I wouldn't personally do that
 
It's private implementation details
 
Indeed.
 
They don't exist in the outside world
It's that simple
 
@LucDanton but in my own opinion it's less readable, deadmg implemented it as follows: codepad.org/RR1UBNxC (if that is what you mean by an accumulator)
 
If someone wants to be an idiot then it's not your problem
 
2:49 AM
sure it can be made more readable with using and other hacks instead of typedef's
@CatPlusPlus true..
 
using is not a hack.
 
@LucDanton I didn't mean to imply that it was, and with "hack" I mean "other ways of doing the same thing". it's ten to 5am, I just got back from a night out (fashion event = free beer).. with that said; I'm drunk
 
@LucDanton It is in MSVC. :P
 
@sehe I have no idea what he's arguing for
That entire point of view is :psyduck:
 
WELL IF HE TAKES HIS BALL HOME LET EVERYONE ELSE SEE HOW MUCH IT HURTS US WHEN WE DON'T HAVE HiS BALL ANYMORE
 
AND LET THAT BE A LESSON TO EVERYONE WHO'S STILL HERE THAT YOU CAN HURT US BADLY. D:<
 
- So what do you do?
- Drinking beer.. and if I'm not mistaking you are too. you seem kinda good at it..
- Yeah, but I mean.. are you in the fashion industry or do you know someone who knows someone who got you here?
- I know people so I guess that's why I'm here, but I wear other peoples clothes for a living
- funny.. but what do you really do?
- I, really, wear other peoples clothes for a living
*she turns to a friend of hers and says (in swedish, she didn't know I speak the language) "this guy is a bloody jerk, who the fuck where clothes for a living.. and not his own for that matter*
I thought that was funny, but then again I'm drunk
 
This style is straightforward pure functional programming, true to the nature of TMP. The real hack is encoding a sentinel value btw.
 
@ThePhD pff.. this is Lounge<C++>, there are no feelings in here
 
@NicolBolas I get the impression you don't want to discuss it. First you say it's not an issue, then you have me explain how I removing votes by high-rep users in low-traffic tags harms the tag community; Now you say "well, it's just that way"? That lacks logic, since (a) the user did likely not know about said consequences (b) this is not supposed to happen, even at account deletion in the first place (c) the leaving user might not have the community interest in mind at that time (in extremo this is like a DoS vulnerability) — sehe 11 secs ago
 
2:56 AM
It has the same semantics as DeadMG's code, but different syntax.
 
@ThePhD lol
 
@sehe I've commented too!
 
@CatPlusPlus Huh. That must have somehow not automatically updated, lemme have looks
 
@LucDanton you are comparing my implementation to the DeadMG's?
 
2:57 AM
No, mine to his.
 
@LucDanton oh, didn't notice your link..
@LucDanton yeah, passing a tuple along the way to fill up with values is kinda nice
 
With the caveats of using std::tuple as a type-list that apply.
 
@ThePhD Don't you dare deleting your account or we'll delete Internet points from other people!
I mean ahahaha who the fuck cares how is that a valid thing to do if you want to discourage people from leaving
Also account removal should always be available and self-service
 

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