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12:00 PM
@LucDanton Yeah, that amounts to the same: you just hide the bool in the decorator. But I might do it for reuse anyway.
 
soo....
stuff
 
Now I feel like I need to have the same so that my sequencey operator<< stop bugging me.
 
Actually, yeah, this is totally the kind of pattern I should make reusable.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ranges~
 
@Xeo FWIW, this is the first time I ever saw an elegant interperse.
 
Xeo
12:02 PM
I seriously think it's amazing
 
It makes the special case less visible. (It's still there as -1).
 
Xeo
Yea
 
Yeah same. I re-read Programming in Lua some days ago and they mentioned the trick. It was not the first discovery but something clicked and I felt like I should remember it.
 
Xeo
Btw, what if r is empty()?
 
@Xeo Well, just write repeat in a way that it accepts negative arguments :P
 
Xeo
12:03 PM
lol
 
@Mysticial I got a chance to try out your code and it doesn't seem to work. It looks like... In my case all the values as nonsense and bigger then I would have expected...
 
rtl::round_robin(r, rtl::skip(1, rtl::repeat(r.length(), separator))) also works.
 
Xeo
Hmm
 
So, I have some CRTP wrappers that I put inside type_traits/. I feel like that's a misnomer though -- where do I put them? I'm thinking policy/?
 
Xeo
Infinite cycle wouldn't really work, eh?
 
12:04 PM
@Xeo ?
D has it.
 
Xeo
Well, why specify a length to repeat is basically my question
 
Oh, repeat takes an element, not a range.
 
round_robin goes on with the remaining sequence. Does it?
 
Xeo
@LucDanton So there's the "problem"
If you had a round-robin that stops at the shortest sequence...
 
round_robin with any one infinite range in it becomes infinite itself (statically known; I love my statically checked properties).
@Xeo You would have a trailing comma.
 
12:06 PM
Let's worry about supporting infinite Unicode sequences later.
 
D's cycle optimises itself to id if the source is infinite, btw.
This is the kind of thing I love about TMP.
 
Ugh, office chairs are practically death traps
 
Are typical CRTP wrappers mixins? I find that term somewhat overused and fuzzy.
 
@LucDanton I'd say so.
 
Or is a mixin the result?
 
12:08 PM
@Mysticial Oh wait nevermind, now everything works (needed to power cycle camera)
 
Some call them "traits", but that is taken in C++. I think I've seen "behaviours" before as well.
 
Mmh, is multipliable<T> really a 'policy'. Meh.
 
I think a policy is usually something that is used as an internal interface/plug-in point, and not part of the actual interface.
Like char_traits (ugh, std naming)
 
Yeah, recursive_data is a policy of variant.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ugh
 
12:14 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah, ISTR to recall 'behaviour' does appear in mixin terminology.
I'll go with that.
Is the choice of spelling likely to launch a thousand flamewars?
 
Xeo
haha
 
I normally favour British spellings, but I use American spelling exclusively in ogonek, because that's the Standard's choice.
 
Xeo
using behaviour = detail::behavi_r; using behavior = detail::behavi_r;
 
Isn't there a unit for that? The milli-[famous troll]?
 
12:16 PM
@LucDanton spell it behaviurand everyone will call you names equally? :)
 
Oh duh. I'll allow the use of either. Boost.Units does that.
 
@LucDanton There is one for bogosity.
 
any great news from bristol?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, some how Americans got 'universal English'
 
@LucDanton the milli-tomalak
@thecoshman omg wassat?
 
12:17 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ...
 
what's next after british CSS, british c++? I do declare class Thing { ... };
 
@LucDanton -DNS_SPELLING=BRITISH ;)
 
@bamboon Not particularly. Virtually all the papers covered so far by LEWG were rejected for C++14.
 
Wait... I can't allow the use of either. I'm not using namespaces here, it's my source tree. Oh well.
 
12:19 PM
@thecoshman what's "universal english"?
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Except indices!
 
@Xeo Ah yes, they passed.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit The English that is used universally. Really now, it's rather self explanatory
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes If you include behavior/operators.hpp you get multipliable, not behavior::multipliable. (Everything in namespace annex don't worry.)
 
12:20 PM
but string_view, unicode, any, were all rejected
 
@thecoshman er, there is no such thing... so what are you talking about?
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Wait, why string_view?
I thought that was good?
 
not enough basic_string compatibility was the main kicker.
 
@Xeo It has the std::string interface. Well some of it, which is worse than either extreme.
 
that's the thing
if it cut all of the crap, we'd have been more sympathetic.
 
Xeo
12:21 PM
:s
 
but half way pleased nobody.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Did you not see that is based on American English, and as such has picked up a bullish view that it is the one true form
 
Keeeel the std::basic_string crap. Keeeeeeel it.
 
Xeo
I really wanted string_view :<
 
@DeadMG ah ok, thanks. Is it actually 100% sure that c++14 will come or could it be that it will be postponed because there are not enough accepted features?
 
12:22 PM
@bamboon Unlikely. The Committee's current status is "HOLY SHIT SO MANY PAPERS".
2
 
nice
 
@thecoshman No
 
Everyone and their dogs want that feature that will make it easier to write whatever they are writing right now at work, from loop advancement to Unicode.
 
user1357851
I don't understand why any language has to be re-written every 3 years. I understand why languages have to upgrade, say maybe once every 5-10 years. But every 3 years?
 
@Xeo It'll be in TS, I think, and possibly in C++14 if the author gets his arse in gear and the groups have enough time to consider a new revision
 
Xeo
12:23 PM
@Telkitty Well, you also suck, so no surprise there.
 
As long as neither of them are rejected in the "no we don't ever want anything like this feature" kind of way. "Revise your proposal and try again" isn't such a bad outcome :)
 
I wouldn't mind if some got a "no we don't ever want anything like this feature".
 
yeah, any, unicode and string_view were all advised to try again after revision
 
Loop advancement, I am looking at you.
 
Xeo
12:25 PM
What was that one?
 
user1357851
@Xeo I would like to see any cool things you have accomplished in the past 3 years
 
@Xeo Some RAII crap for someone that has a low for-loop/algorithm budget.
 
Xeo
lol
 
Honestly, it is the product of someone that should be back in school.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit then see it, and shut up
 
12:27 PM
@thecoshman weirdo
 
"Loop advancement" is as ridiculous as it sounds, and it is exactly the third leg of the lousy for loops.
 
@DeadMG any didn't muster consensus? Why so?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit face it, American English is the de-facto English
 
@LucDanton Problems with the allocator mostly, and no stream operator and the any_cast interface needed tweaking
 
Xeo
@Telkitty I amassed a massive amount of knowledge. I think that's a pretty cool thing, atleast.
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's not the "for loop exist strategies" thing, is it?
 
12:28 PM
inb4 next review is 'but why did you make the stream operator do X? I expected Y!'
 
@DeadMG Did you present your allocator proposal yet? I think that's really cool.
 
make_unique passed LWG
@bamboon Tomorrow morning.
 
user1357851
@Xeo does that include asmass much knowledge related to programming languages? Because if it does, then it will obsolete in the next 3 years ...
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Cool
 
@Xeo No. It's some "generic RAII library" thingy.
@DeadMG Duh.
 
12:29 PM
this afternoon I'll be looking at n3573
 
Xeo
@DeadMG greater<> wasn't yet, right?
@Telkitty lol no, it will not
 
@Xeo That was accepted last meeting, I think.
 
Xeo
huh?
 
user1357851
7 mins ago, by Telkitty
I don't understand why any language has to be re-written every 3 years. I understand why languages have to upgrade, say maybe once every 5-10 years. But every 3 years?
 
user1357851
and in the last 3 years you:
 
user1357851
12:31 PM
2 mins ago, by Xeo
@Telkitty I amassed a massive amount of knowledge. I think that's a pretty cool thing, atleast.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Ah, right
 
I'm leaving my job in two weeks
 
Stop being stupid on purpose..
 
The base list of variant is going to end up hilarious.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Okay, I have no clue which proposal it is.
@LucDanton hehe
 
12:33 PM
Btw not being able to take the address of operators has never been controversial, has it?
 
Xeo
What do you mean, &operator+?
 
Ye. Because you know, CRTP and operator friends that mysteriously use template arguments of the CRTP wrapper.
 
Xeo
oh, that. I was looking through the papers submitted for the pre-Bristol mailing
 
12:38 PM
Hard error for attempting v == v on a variant type where one of the value type doesn't support == is also cromulent, yes?
 
Xeo
yea, what else are you gonna do?
 
SFINAE for all that code that goes decltype( a == b )?
 
Xeo
mmm, true, we can do that
 
Lately I have been tagging all the requirements in documentation with a [soft] or [hard] indication to explain whether failure results in a soft or hard error.
 
Kinky.
 
12:41 PM
I also have [undefined] sometimes for "don't you dare".
 
[not my type]
 
Xeo
Thing is, you can always make SFINAE go hard, so that may be an indicator...
I guess there's no possibility to make it go SFINAE when used as decltype(a == b) and static_assert otherwise? :P
 
Sadly, no.
 
I'd need traits for e.g. equality comparison though. Which means I could have ./operators.hpp, behavior/operators.hpp, type_traits/operators.hpp and meta/operators.hpp!
 
Xeo
I was thinking declaration vs definition instantiation, but I guess that doesn't happen
 
12:44 PM
Passing a non-well-formed sequence to graphemes is hard. You can simply perform the well-formedness test yourself, so is there a point in making that soft?
 
@Cheiron point is, I am a real OpenGL programmer, at least as close to reality as one can get, I guess.
 
<1s to compile variant<int> v = 1, w = 0; return v == w;. Kinda nice given all the functionality available.
 
LWG arguing about reading uninitialized pointers being UB
 
@DeadMG ub ub ub
 
12:46 PM
Can't imagine you're hearing this right.
 
Xeo
Why the fuck is LWG arguing about that?
 
You can quote iterator requirements I think.
 
@LucDanton I'm sitting right in the room.
 
Well I did not say 'hearing this well'.
 
@DeadMG ... so?
 
12:48 PM
lol
they are arguing about iterator types - the proposal is for iterator(), iterator() to be a valid empty range.
 
Xeo
Ah, that thing.
Wasn't there a proposal / DR about that?
 
Who wants to use unitialized iterators/pointers instead here?
 
the proposal we're viewing right now
 
@DeadMG Ewwwwwwwwwwwww
 
@LucDanton Nobody, they were just arguing about the exact type, apparently there are many types of iterators which are kinda half-valid or something.
 
12:50 PM
It's true there are no Iterator requirements to make that work though. But pointers would be the part that works.
To be frank I'm worried that so many Standard people put that much stock into default (or value, same deal) construction.
 
it's not much, they just argued about it for two minutes
also, there's about a tenth of the delegates here
 
It appears in other places. For instance the Regular concept. Or alleged concept.
 
actually maybe a fifth
 
Fuck this shit, I'm leaving // TODO: diagnostics if the stored types do not fulfil requirements in. Enjoy your template instantiation stack from within annex::variant_detail::variant_base<T...>::parallel_visitations!
 
Xeo
12:54 PM
lol
 
Do you guys worry about providing hash support for your generic thingies?
What with no std::hash_combine I usually don't bother.
 
I usually prefer unordered over ordered so I often add hash support
 
Xeo
Can't really define how the stuff is supposed to be hashed, though
 
... meanwhile in LWG, everyone is refreshing their memory as to whether forward iterators are default constructible.
 
Do you xor all the things?
 
12:56 PM
@Xeo ugh, did you send your proposal as UTF-8 w/BOM?
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Don't read the first revision!!!
 
@DeadMG They are.
 
Xeo
:<
 
@LucDanton I did it in ogonek because it's essential functionality. I usually don't care.
 
@LucDanton I do. For hash(range), I have pow(prime, n) ^ hash(elem) ^ ...;
 
Xeo
12:58 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Also, I was fucking rushed to get anything submitted before the deadline, so I couldn't bother with aesthetics.
 
or maybe it was pow(prime, n) ^ hash(elem) + ...
 
@LucDanton I use boost::hash_range (had to hack in support for char16_t and char32_t though :/).
 
Xeo
19 hours ago, by Xeo
@DeadMG https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14327987/functional_cpp.html
Read ^ instead
 
@Xeo Well, I opened it and saw "" at the start. Immediate disgust.
Also, why the fuck is open-std.org serving it as Cp1252.
 

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