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Xeo
9:00 PM
int&& i = 0; is basically the same as int&& i = int(0);
 
Dammit, I forgot to buy Gaviscon today.
 
Xeo
@Cheersandhth.-Alf when binding something to the reference?
 
@Xeo yes i found it
the standard splits the rules about binding from the rules about lifetime extension
 
Xeo
§12.2 for those interested.
Btw @DeadMG, 12.2/1 "Temporaries of class type are created in various contexts: binding a reference to a prvalue, ..."
Oh wait, class type
hmm
 
^ Just because all music posted here now is probably electronic.
 
Xeo
9:05 PM
8.5.3 it seems to be
 
§12.2/5 is the relevant piece, and it doesn't differentiate between rvalue and lvalue references.
 
Xeo
Right
 
3
A: Simple and fast matrix-vector multiplication in C / C++

6502This is something that in theory a good compiler should do by itself, however I made a try with my system (g++ 4.6.3) and got about twice the speed on a 300x50 matrix by hand unrolling 4 multiplications (about 18us per matrix instead of 34us per matrix): double vectors_dot_prod2(const double *x,...

 
perhaps still a market for the duff device
?
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Nice song
 
9:08 PM
thx yes i think so :-)
 
hmm
I wonder what's a good, simple example of an ambiguous overload.
I actually have been about 99999999999years since I last produced an ambiguous overload myself
 
don't know, but the last one i remember was because template< class T > foo( T&& ) is very good match for anything
 
@DeadMG When are you taking a vacation to come and visit sweden?
 
Xeo
void f(long); void f(long long); f(42);
@DeadMG ^^
 
@xeo oh, yes, microsoft's bug in std::bitset constructor!
it's so extremely silly: they had some other problem, which they solved by adding this bug
heh
 
9:12 PM
@DeadMG Just remember that the overload itself isn't normally what's ambiguous; it's the use of it that's ambiguous.
 
@ManofOneWay When I gain employment there. :P
 
Xeo
They still didn't solve that decltype(&F::name) is a dependent name :(
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf that doesn't appear related to bitset
 
Obvious example: f(int, long); f(long, int); With this, f(1,2); is ambiguous, but both f(1L,2); and f(1,2L); are fine.
 
#include <bitset>
using namespace std;

int main()
{
    bitset<8>( 42u );
}
 
9:14 PM
gah, I wish MSVC would tell me where I'm copying an object.
 
@MooingDuck I hate that behaviour too.
 
@MooingDuck use noncopyables
 
but you can't just make it private because then it tries to copy ellide a move-only object and throws a hissy
 
[d:\dev\test]
> (cl /nologo- 2>&1) | find "++"
Microsoft (R) 32-bit C/C++ Optimizing Compiler Version 16.00.40219.01 for 80x86

[d:\dev\test]
> cl foo.cpp
foo.cpp
foo.cpp(6) : error C2440: '<function-style-cast>' : cannot convert from 'unsigned int' to 'std::bitset<_Bits>'
        with
        [
            _Bits=8
        ]
        No constructor could take the source type, or constructor overload resolution was ambiguous

[d:\dev\test]
> _
 
@Abyx I inherit from a noncopyable. So it gives me an error "cannot access protected member declared in class" BUT DOESNT SAY WHERE.
 
9:15 PM
works OK with msvc 11.0 though
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck It totally should
 
@Xeo srsly
 
@MooingDuck yep, that's why I don't use noncopyable base class
 
Xeo
just somewhere up the call stack :)
 
@Xeo "This diagnostic occurred in the compiler generated function 'TTSToFileCallback::TTSToFileCallback" is the highest part of the callstack it shows. I need to know who's making a copy of a TTSToFileCallback
 
9:16 PM
private: C(const C&); void operator=(const C&); ftw
 
oh wait, this needs to be copiable. Hmm.
 
Xeo
@Abyx yeah... that's what noncopyable does.
 
@Xeo it changes the MSVC errors to being useful if it's in the most derived class.
 
@Xeo I know, but the noncopyable base class hides error source
 
Xeo
really?
Ok, that sucks :/
 
9:19 PM
hmm, C++11 got me used to rvalues and now I seem to have coded myself into a tricky spot in C++03 :/
 
Xeo
pointers! cough
 
afk gotta eat
 
raw pointers!
 
@MooingDuck C++03 sucks donkey cock.
 
actually I don't see anything wrong with using unique_ptr's release() and reset() in C++03
like T* foo() { ...; return p.release(); } ... p.reset(foo());
 
9:22 PM
I occasionally want a std::vector::release() :(
@Abyx in that particular case, just return the unique_ptr
 
@MooingDuck in C++03
 
@Abyx oh right, never used boost
 
@MooingDuck swap() mb?
 
@Abyx swap() is the only choice for faux-move-semantics.
 
@Abyx passing to a third party which expects a char*
 
9:24 PM
your release-and-reset idiom is not particularly good
 
@DeadMG it's not mine, it's from LLVM
 
oh, right.
well, I knew their codebase was a pile of shite
 
meh dictionnary
 
@DeadMG it's just a good C++03 without exceptions
 
"Sulking : To be sullenly aloof or withdrawn"
 
9:25 PM
wait, std::auto_ptr didn't have a swap member? weird.
 
@Abyx Which is almost C.
 
"Alt. A mood or display of sullen aloofness or withdrawal"
 
@MooingDuck whole auto_ptr is weird %)
 
also, I didn't look into the LLVM codebase as much as I did the Clang codebase
but Clang is shitty OO, pure and simple, and not good C++03 or even Java or anything by any stretch of the imagination
 
nah... it was a decent code 5-10 years ago
C++11 spoiled you
 
9:28 PM
uh, no
the shit they do was always a crime against good programming
Effective C++, first edition, warns against it
 
dunno, most of bad things there are because of no-exceptions policy
 
that's also a criminally bad policy
 
What is it with people and exceptions?
 
@EtiennedeMartel "exceptions are slow, increases binary size, etc"
 
@Abyx Exceptions are faster than return codes, and massively increase program safety and decrease program complexity.
return codes are O(N), exceptions O(1)
 
Xeo
9:33 PM
@DeadMG It is valid for hard real-time embedded programming it seems
 
@Xeo I don't think those guys are using LLVM or Clang.
 
the only really bad thing I recall in LLVM is short names of variables, like WhatTheFuck WTF; WTF.x(); WTF.y(); WTF.z();
 
Xeo
@Abyx oh, yeah...
 
lol yeah... it takes a while to get used to those.
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Hello, Brain has a problem with me. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [pinky]
 
9:47 PM
@Xeo Exceptions can blow up your binary size
 
@Collin less than properly used error codes. The trick to small binaries is ignoring the error codes.
 
Xeo
Don't tell that to me :)
 
@MooingDuck Depends on the size of your application, really. I've had systems where the difference between enabling exceptions and just using error codes is like 50k
which can be significant if your platform is small enough
 
@Collin I am dubious, there's no theoretical reason exceptions should be bigger. In theory, they should be smaller.
 
Screw binary size.
50kB is nothing unless you're programming refrigerators.
 
9:49 PM
@CatPlusPlus Most of the time yes, but little embedded soft-cores don't have much to work with
 
Screw little embedded soft-cores, too.
Low level is not fun.
 
@MooingDuck It seemed to me it wasn't so much using them that made it bigger, it's just including the runtime support for them
without even using them, the difference between switching on and off exceptions in my TI-gcc variant was about 50kB
 
Xeo
0
Q: How to get `std::basic_string<CustomClass>` to compile?

Dmitri ShuralyovOk, I'm usually all right at being able to read, understand and fix compiler errors. But with this one, I think I need help. I want to have a std::basic_string<CustomClass> where CustomClass is a class. I don't want to write custom char_traits and allocator classes for it, unless absolutel...

Wat.
 
@Collin runtime support for exceptions should be less than properly handled error codes.
 
Hey guise. Can we please have a why-singletons-are-bad chat if you don't mind? I'm feeling a bit down.
 
9:50 PM
@Collin well sure, then you have error codes and exceptions
 
@Cicada they are not bad.
 
They are bad. The end of chat.
 
your code is bad
 
@MooingDuck I'm not sure what it would have been, I didn't do any detailed analysis, had plenty of flash to work with on that particular board
 
9:51 PM
No, my code is correct.
 
@CatPlusPlus correct != !bad
 
Your singletons are bad. Terrible, in fact.
They give instant +infinity to technical debt of your project, and you lost the game.
 
@CatPlusPlus that's why I prefer to use global variables
 
They're not very much better, sorry.
 
@Abyx They are convenient
 
9:54 PM
@Cicada They're incredibly terribly disgusting.
 
@Cicada Does someone think they're good?
 
meh... we need another topic
 
Short story long: tomorrow (sigh) begin my "OO patterns" class. I know we're gonna learn the fucking usuals, singleton included. It'd be nice if the teacher hated me since the first class.
 
@Cicada ok, ask him about unit-testing
SRP and other stuff...
 
@Cicada Sure wouldn't want to waste time with that. The main problem with singletons isn't that they're bad per se, but that there are very few types of which you can be certain only a single instance can ever exist. In other words, they're "bad" about the way the Platypus is "bad" biology. Given the degree to which they infest bad code, however, they're more like a really strange (but still annoying) species of mosquito or cockroach.
 
10:02 PM
Insects galore. Hi five, Jerry!
 
@Cicada I knew you'd like that! :-)
 
happy screech
It's sad, all the swallows have already left.
Summer is over ;_;
 
lol
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf hello
why did you order me?
i shall come ASAP you said earlier
 
@Cicada do swallows eat insects?
 
10:05 PM
@JohannesSchaub-litb As I recall, somebody was having trouble finding §12.2/5...
@Abyx Most swallows do (AAMOF, that's pretty much the sole diet of most swallows).
 
Swallows leave to Africa by the end of summer.
Also yes these little fuckers eat my comrades.
 
rofl
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb just thought you were necessary to figure out the standard
but it turned out to be trivial
 
To make things worse, I ran out of hot water. NOOOO
 
10:07 PM
sorry
here is a picture of nice food instead
 
@Cicada pwnt
 
That totally looks like, hmm, I'd say beef.
 
What do I win what do I win
 
10:09 PM
you can have the pic?
 
^ beef
 
it's not cooked!
 
so that was a dead beef
 
Being a member of PETA, I'm appalled. Oh wait, my version is the People for the Eating of Tasty Animals. Carry on.
 
So, I'm covered in depilatory cream, and no warm water to take it off.
Soon I'll be just a skeleton burnt by the sulfur in that fucking cream.
 
10:13 PM
@Cicada That does sound rather unpleasant.
 
what a sad story
 
On a related note, my DVI cable is too short so I can't connect my screen to my tower without putting the tower on the desk. Which is cumbersome.
Life is so difficult.
 
Ell
Ahh hair removal
 
oh look, the blue girl is back
haven't see you in a while
meanwhile, we still didn't settle the waf vs scons question
 
who is blue girl
 
10:15 PM
Cicada
 
that thing on yellow background
 
Ell
I always say waf in a German accent
 
lol
 
Ell
i have a welsh German teacher, strangest accent
 
My fiance has begun doing first world problems for almost everything I complain about. Which is a lot of things. :(
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah, there is the same on the waf wiki :)
which is funny
 
Ell
if somebody were to write a reauirment list maybe someone could write a better build system
 
@MooingDuck I of course, should have removed "on a related note"
 
I think waf and scons are on their way to be that "better build system"
I just think it's sad that there are so many alternatives, it segments the market too much
 
Ell
10:19 PM
To me it looks like you have to get to at least 10 consecutive vowels to be noticably more erotic than regular words
I use cmake atm
 
@Ell By looking at the graph, yes indeed
 
msbuild ftw
 
Ell
cowsay ftw
 
@Ell To stay polite, I'll just say that cmake is better than autoconf. ;)
 
@Ell Requirement: DWIM. Oh, did you mean "detailed requirement list"?
@kbok Dental work without Novocaine is better than autoconf.
 
10:21 PM
@Ell "Euouae, six letters long, is the longest English word consisting only of vowels, and, also, the English word with the most consecutive vowels. Words with five consecutive vowels include cooeeing and queueing." rinkworks.com/words/oddities.shtml
 
@MooingDuck queueing being surprisingly common
 
@kbok in the UK
 
Ell
then the graph is wrong!
 
@Ell or each mark does not deliminate one vowel
 
@MooingDuck Why ? Is there a different word in the US ?
 
Ell
10:23 PM
they say "line" apparently
 
lining?
 
@kbok we don't have a word for htat in the US. "standing in line" "waiting in line".
 
Ell
Not sure why, queueing was made for the purpose of queues
 
we only say queueing when mocking UK.
 
Ell
@mooingduck so we have fractions of vowels? o.O
 
10:24 PM
@Ell you'd have to ask the guy who didn't label his axis
 
@MooingDuck Oh, right
 
Ell
You mock the UK by saying queuing?
 
So, american people don't have "queueing", but they have pop tarts. Fair enough.
 
Ell
that is weird. I mock the us by saying "put your candy bar trash in the garbage can"
 
@Ell we don't say it, they do. Therefore when we say it it's like we're ironic or something. I don't konw.
@Ell "wrapper"?
 
Ell
10:26 PM
Seriously what is candy? is it confectionery or chocolate or what?
 
@Ell en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candy "In North America, candy is a broad category that includes candy bars, chocolates, licorice, sour candies, salty candies, tart candies, hard candies, taffies, gumdrops, marshmallows, and more"
 
Ell
And yeah I guess its a bit of a push omitting wrapper
 
where the fuck is Solihull?
 
Ell
But we would never say "have a piece of candy" or "i like candy bars!"
 
@DeadMG What ?
 
10:28 PM
@Ell you call them sweets? or what?
 
@MooingDuck Nailed it.
 
Ell
Yeah sweets or confectionery
 
I ended up taking that cold shower.
Guess what. It was cold.
 
Ell
or chocolate, chocolate doesn't count as a sweet
 
@kbok It's in Birmingham.
 
Ell
10:30 PM
le douche etait froid
no wait.
 
@DeadMG Ok.
 
Ell
I forgot French
@kbok are you from the uk?
 
who needs it...
 
@Ell "douche" is a girl
 
lol
 
Ell
10:31 PM
Fille is girl?
 
yep
 
Confusion ensued.
 
@Ell Rule of thumb : if it ends with 'e' it's a girl.
 
@Ell Chocolate isn't sweet -- in fact, it's kind of bitter. It only gets sweet when you add lots of sugar.
 
@Ell Nope
 
Ell
10:32 PM
ohhh... la douche
Hmm anyone willing to disclose the fact they are uk?
 
Tony and Dead are
 
Ell
i knew dead was, didn't know tony was
 
@Ell That sounds like a coming out.
 
Ell
i need to know if they have ever eaten an oatcake
 
he isn't
 
10:33 PM
Oh so you're from UK? I'm so sorry to hear that.
 
Tony moved here to get a job
he's not from here
 
Ell
I thought he moved or was on Holliday or something
 
@Ell "was"? did something happened?
 
I thought that he's Belgian in origin or something like that
 
@DeadMG Oh, didn't knew
 
10:34 PM
@Tony Penis.
 
Ell
well :L @deadmg have you ever eaten an oatcake?
 
@DeadMG That matches my recollection.
 
the fuck is an oatcake?
 
@DeadMG I'm a little uncertain, but that sounds like a "no".
 
@DeadMG hai
 
10:35 PM
well, strictly, it's possible that I consumed one under another name
 
-
 
@TonyTheLion You're Belgian, right?
and moved to this dump for work
 
@DeadMG yes, Belgian I am
@DeadMG yes I moved to shithole for work.
 
I am le genius
you can go back to fapping now
 
Ell
Thought so. I found out only a week ago that oatcakes are a regional thing. Mind = blow :o
 
10:36 PM
now my shitty existance can carry on in it's shitty ways
@DeadMG no need to fap.
 
@TonyTheLion ...and now you're finding that having a job in England still leaves you with less spending money than not having a job in Belgium?
 
better than not having a job in England
I got the government wanting to practically count the pennies in me wallet
 
@JerryCoffin yes, not having a job in Belgium earns me 1000 Euros per month or so.
Having a job here, earns me more, however, I have hardly none left after all expenses are covered
@DeadMG 3 pennies in your wallet?
 
@TonyTheLion Is it that hard to get a job in Belgium ? I know the salaries lower than average, but to move to another country..
 
@TonyTheLion Dunno.
@kbok Cross-EU isn't as bad as "Another country". Far less paperwork.
 
10:38 PM
@TonyTheLion My point exactly.
 
@kbok no it's not hard to get a job in Belgium, it's just Belgium is shitty, even more than England
 
@DeadMG Does UK count as part of EU for that purpose?
 
@TonyTheLion O rly? How much do you earn, if you don't mind me asking?
 
@DeadMG Oh yeah, sure. My point is more that you're far from friends and family.
 
@JerryCoffin Yes.
 
10:39 PM
@JerryCoffin I ain't gonna live with my parents for the rest of my life, am I now?
 
the UK is a full member of the EU, just not the Eurozone.
 
@JerryCoffin You can go there by train and car you know
 
(and the UK is one of only about two or three in that position).
right, so
 
@TonyTheLion Belgium is small, but I'm pretty sure there's at little room beyond your parent's house.
 
applying to three jobs tonight, all of which ask for degrees
what ca go wron
 
Ell
10:40 PM
But wooo we dont gots le euro
 
@kbok Yes, I do know -- I've taken the chunnel train.
 
@JerryCoffin As have I a few times.
 
@JerryCoffin having lived 10 years in the UK, I got used to it here, Belgium stopped feeling like home a long time ago. I never wanted to live there again, I only went back there because I had a physical condition to handle, and I don't trust the UK medicos
 
Ell
ive been to belgium!
 
@DeadMG I'm not really going to post that on here.
 
10:41 PM
@TonyTheLion I completely understand.
 
but even without my degree, I can't complain about my earnings
 
now I'mma just wait a couple of weeks until I can insult you in person and then I'll ask you then :P
 
Ell
As a child I don't understand why people don't like talking about their earnings? can someone expain?
 
yea, come insult me in person, be much more fun :P
 
10:42 PM
@Ell people judge each other based on their earnings. If you don't share your earnings, you'll be judged less.
 
Ell
Well I'm not a child, but Im not an adult
 
@Ell It depends on the culture. In US people talk freely about their earnings, in France it's a very secret topic.
 
@Ell Because money is how society values your contribution to it. If you earn less then you are worth less, from some less enlightened perspectives.
 
Ell
Ahh okay I understand
 
@MooingDuck yea, one does get judged on that quite often, therefore smart not to talk about it too much
 
Ell
10:43 PM
And people are secretive about voting too o.O I asked a teacher who he'd voted for once and nearly got a Friday night :o
 
I don't know why people are secretive about voting
 
a Friday night ?
 
in Belgium that's also a no-no. You don't ask another who they voted for
 
@Ell that differs from person to person. Many people share that, many don't
 
(he probably told his friends/family that he voted one way but actually voted another)
 
10:44 PM
@DeadMG not everywhere, in some places it depends only on luck or how pushy you are
 
but legally, you have the right to vote however you want for whatever reason you want
 
that's true
 
@DeadMG Yes, but see, not all people reason like that.
 
@Cicada That's what makes them inferior to me.
 
Ell
@kbok friday night detention - staying at school on a Friday night instead of going home
 
10:45 PM
There used to be many discriminations against some party members in the past.
 
Most people who voted for Marine Le Pen here would be treated like racist if they made their vote public.
 
@Ell basically, there's a lot of people who judge others who think differently than they do as less intelligent. (DeadMG)
 
@Ell That seems like a rather harsh punishment for even moderate offences.
 
@Ell Wow, that sucks
 
@Cicada now we know your vote
 
10:46 PM
@Ell in America teachers have no power whatsoever :/ It's a miserable system.
 
@Cicada Marine Le Pen?
 
Ell
I think it is due for most. my school is strict. My head teacher told us today (first day at sixth form) that as long as we wear a school tie, she "owns" us
 
@DeadMG Extreme right wing party leader
 
@Ell Well, legally speaking, the school lost basically all rights to compel you to attend it when you took your GCSEs.
 
Ell
Matt le blanc?
 
10:47 PM
@Abyx lol no :p
 
too late
 
Ell
@deadmg but I'm the last year for that, years below me are obliged to attend higher education of some kind iirc
 
@Ell Dunno, but your head teacher doesn't own you.
 
@DeadMG Extreme right. Racist-ish speeches. Wants to get out of EU and get rid of strangers.
 
one of the biggest mistakes I made in school was listening to my teachers
 
Ell
10:49 PM
I know but she likes to think that
 
the relatively simple fact is
she's about as stuck with you as you are with her
it takes a lot to expel a pupil from a state school
 
Ell
French version of BNP?
 
@Ell As far as I can tell.
 
Ell
What did not listening earn you?
 
@Ell Well, when I listened to them, then I learned basically nothing. Now at least I have what I learned on my own, which is not nothing.
 
Ell
10:51 PM
Okay I guess
 
@Cicada ...but still (if I'm thinking of the right person) counts as almost-moderate compared to her father.
 
they implied all sorts of wrong
for example, "When you reach your A-levels, you'll have to do your own independent learning and not babysit or held back by teachers"
and the same crap about university
 
Ell
Yeah :/
 
@DeadMG At least in my experience, most teachers really wanted to indoctrinate, not teach.
 
Ell
Anyway I'm off to bed guys and gals, must sleep for her highness tomorrow
 
10:52 PM
but then I noticed that wasn't true
 
@Ell G'night.
 
Ell
Nighty night
 
@JerryCoffin The better ones seem to want to teach, but don't have the resources.
but I grew disillusioned with it when it came to applying for university
before that I didn't really know what I wanted to do after school
 
@JerryCoffin Yes the father is negationist (is that an english word?) which is considered a crime here
 
but after I decided I wanted to focus on software
I realized that I was still wasting all my time attending Law classes, which I could have been spending on the course they'd made me pick out for myself
 
10:54 PM
@Cicada Not really an English word, and I'm not quite sure what it would mean in this context either.
 
not to mention all the Physics classes I attended. "Hey, it's a new simple linear relationship which takes less than two minutes to comprehend. Now I hope you don't mind getting up at 9am (puppies don't take kindly to waking up early for nothing) and spending an hour pointlessly re-iterating how linear this relationship is."
plus all the stuff I'd already learned from external sources
 
@JerryCoffin Hmmm, by that I mean "negating the fact that the shoah existed or that any harm was ever done to the Jew by the nazi". There's a word in french just for that.
 
ah
we just call them Holocaust Deniers
 
@Cicada Oh, okay.
 
@DeadMG That sounds like a rock band name
 
10:57 PM
Are the extreme right wingers in the UK racist?
 
Holocaust deniers it is, then.
 
@Chimera Absolutely.
 
@DeadMG That's sad. How so?
In the US a lot of liberals think the right wing is racist as well, but I don't think it's a party thing. Some people are racist. I don't think it's mandated that you be or not be racist depending upon the party you belong to.
 
@Chimera I'm pretty sure there are at least a few racist extremists almost everywhere -- all that varies is whether they're considered "right", "left" or "center" (though when that's "center", run away...)
 
@Chimera I don't really pay a lot of attention to them myself
 

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