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3:00 PM
@Cicada Oooh noooo.
 
@JimNorton no it's not, this is a chat room filled with obese gentlemen stroking their c¨¨ks.. just as everywhere else on the internet. This is not a place to ask for help.
 
@refp I'm not obese. And I don't wank at work.
 
@EtiennedeMartel me neither, but statistically we should be.. since we are online
 
@EtiennedeMartel Never mix business with self-pleasure.
 
3:01 PM
@refp I don't know from which hole you got those stats, but let's say I'm skeptical.
 
@EtiennedeMartel don't question the statistics, it's posted on the internet and therefore it must be true
 
sbi
@JimNorton Actually, this is the chat, and thus unfit for coming here to ask for help.
 
@refp Oh, you're a journalist, then?
 
@sbi Oh really, but it happens ALL the time.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes actually that's one of my current (three) jobs
 
3:03 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Zing!
@JimNorton Statistical anomaly.
 
software developer, model, journalist.. or well 4* if you count being black as an occupation
 
("statistical" also sounds like a certain rude word, like fantastical)
 
I'm going on a quest to find some free redbull here at the office.. please enjoy the time given I'm not here.
 
@sbi Would a SO question that solicits opinions on how to design the Class structure of a small C program be appropriate?
 
sbi
@JimNorton Yeah, those newbies come here to ask for help all the time. And it usually ends with them sitting on the floor, in a puddle of tears, and wondering how they broke their noses. I pity them, and therefore I say: This is usually not the room to come for when your compiler spits a nasty error message into your face. This is the room to come to once you have overcome that nasty message in a 2hr battle, and need time to recreate.
 
3:05 PM
@sbi No, I see regulars doing it as well.
 
Yeah, it's okay. Ish.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes What is?
 
sbi
@JimNorton Some of them got closed, some got answered. I relly dunno. OTOH, discussing class design, if you hit the right time, and meet the right chat users, might work out here pretty well. And then it might not. Remember:
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: This is a recreational facility. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
@JimNorton See ^
 
@JimNorton Asking things. Just don't be annoying and it's fine.
 
@JimNorton Some of them. I sure as hell don't!
 
3:07 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Because you don't write C++!
 
Ahoy, people.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Not professionally, no.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Nor do I.
 
@JimNorton Y U NO USE IDEONE?
 
3:08 PM
@DomagojPandža Hey Dom.
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel into
 
Just read something that kind of irritated me.
 
@sbi, the Grammar Ape.
 
@Drise Because I don't know about it...
 
@EtiennedeMartel Cat had a soul?
 
3:09 PM
61
Q: How to write iOS app purely in C

001I read here Learn C Before Objective-C? Usually I then replace some Obj-C code with pure C code (after all you can mix them as much as you like, the content of an Obj-C method can be entirely, pure C code) Is this true? Could I build an iPhone app purely in the C programming language?

 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yes. But no longer.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Nine of them, actually.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I just read it.
 
198 upvotes for a false answer?
 
@sbi "them"?
 
3:10 PM
@EtiennedeMartel And I don't see where it says I shouldn't have asked my question.
 
You're still whining about points?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes IO being close together and that...
 
@DomagojPandža Welcome to real life, kid.
 
@JimNorton Also jim, first thing about OO: Nouns == Class
 
Oh that thing.
 
sbi
3:12 PM
@Drise O'rly? And what about objects? Are those representing verbs then? Sorry, OO design, while not a bad thing, isn't as simple as you teachers broke it to you in class.
 
@JimNorton Also, WinAmountData should be your class and the functions should be members. (From my brief glancing, still reading)
@sbi I know, I know. But it's a good place to start. Verbs are functions.
 
sbi
@Drise Ah, so object must represent adjectives, right?
 
Classes are abstract concepts, while objects are concrete representations of that concept.
 
Operators are adverbs.
And macros are expletives.
2
 
#define FALSE 0
#define TRUE 1
Ha! Silly C programmers...
 
3:14 PM
Soylent Green is people.
 
@EtiennedeMartel No spoiler warning? You're mean.
 
@sbi Objects are nouns. I'm sorry for not being clearer when I said it the first time.
 
@Drise ??????
 
sbi
@Drise Whatever happened to your "Nouns == Class"?
:4369307 Sorry, I got confused which one you said when.
 
@sbi I remove and replace my statement with noun == object, gawd.
 
3:16 PM
@Drise THanks for the tips...
 
@JimNorton *functions that manipulate something to do with WinAmountData (should be members)
 
sbi
@Drise You can't delete that message, it's too old already. It will be there, for the whole world to see, and for you to be ashamed, in all eternity. Amen.
:)
 
@sbi Where is my fucking homework?
 
@Drise the one that someone else was getting SO to do for them?
 
@Drise Was it you who was complaining about my repeated usage of "fucking"?
How ironic.
 
3:18 PM
@Drise Got it
 
@Cicada I wasn't complaining, just inquiring.
 
sbi
@Drise Somewhere decent, hopefully. Nobody should see your homework fucking.
Also, what are you talking about?
 
@sbi My pedantry worship homework.
 
@Drise Oh. Being annoying.
 
sbi
@Drise observing :)
@Drise Do tell us all about it!
 
3:19 PM
-3
Q: Why is C output different

user980089Consider following code void main() { int i=5; i=++i/i++; printf("%d",i); } This question was asked in an interview and I answered it as 1. Why is its output coming out as 2 not 1(what I thought)?

 
@sbi I'm supposed to be worshiping pedantry, and fuck if I can find my creed I'm supposed to be memorizing.
 
Oh gawd, if I saw this on an interview, they'd hear it good.
 
It is true true that used French guns are the best to buy because they've never been shot and only dropped once?
 
Also, someone deleted my comment!
It said "On my favourite implementation, it orders pizza." WHO THE FUCK FLAGGED THAT?
 
sbi
This is the desk of a designer in Hong Kong. IYAM, it does explain a lot about stuff "made in Hong Kong".
 
3:21 PM
egad
 
sbi
Damn, was the wrong link. Fixed now.
 
EGAD
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Noice!
@RMartinhoFernandes Likely because you spelled favorite with a 'u'.
 
++i/i++ is illogical and is UB. There is no solution. — Drise 1 min ago
It is not the problem in ++i/i++, he's trying to shove it into i.
 
@DomagojPandža Good point, fixed
 
3:23 PM
What do you mean? ++i/i++ alone is problematic already.
 
True, but this makes it even better: i = ++i/i++;
 
Also, in C++11, the expressions on both sides of assignment are sequenced.
 
I love "this was asked in an interview. wtf does it mean?" questions
 
@sbi My coworker has a wall of empty Full Throttle cans.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I added it again, but Robert killed it again.
Now, shall we check whether we are faster adding this then Robert deleting it?
 
3:26 PM
Deleted again
@sbi I'm in
 
sbi
@Robert: Those comments were legitimate. That is a possible outcome according to the C++ standard. And there are much worse results of UB. — sbi 9 secs ago
 
"(By the way, I didn't downvote.) " Who the fuck cares? Why do people always say this?
 
Because some people go on a downvote rampage if they get butthurt
 
So they're admitting they go on downvote rampages after butthurt?
 
@Cicada Hmm, butter.
 
3:31 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Butt butter?
 
@Drise That's not really comfortable.
 
sbi
@Drise I said it this time because of this recent comment of me to an answer of that same Robert on meta:
This is bovine excrements. The whole web is full of high-rep users whining about anonymous downvoters on Stackoverflow. As Alf noted, at the beginning, when you downvote, you are asked to explain your downvote. And that's what I do: If I downvote, I either upvote an existing comment explaining the problem, or I add my own comment saying "-1, because...". I used to not to do that, and I got involved in arguments more often than I am now, because now, if it comes to name-calling, I either ignore or flag the comments for deletion. Being sneaky buys you nothing. — sbi Jun 30 at 11:13
@Drise Is that the darker kind of butter?
 
@sbi curious how you get into personal arguments after an anonymous downvote...
 
@sbi Better butter, that butt butter
 
sbi
@rubenvb Huh? We're talking the situation here were you have one or more downvotes, and a criticizing comment. What more do some people need?
 
3:33 PM
@Neil Jelly bean "project butter"?
 
Betty Botter bought a bit of butter.
The butter Betty Botter bought was a bit bitter
And made her batter bitter.
But a bit of better butter makes better batter.
So Betty Botter bought a bit of better butter
Making Betty Botter's bitter batter better
2
 
Smells like the Higgs boson is coming out of the closet soon.
 
@sbi I like the fact that I can downvote without explanation. I don't see how an unexplained downvote can pull you into an argument without you initiating the argument.
 
An important announcement is pending tomorrow and, apparently, the man himself - Peter Higgs - has been invited to attend.
 
@DomagojPandža They may see something, but the fact that it is the Higgs-Englert boson remains to be proven.
 
3:36 PM
(it's already been closed, don't bother)
 
sbi
@rubenvb It will drag in the poor soul who did add a comment explaining what's wrong, no matter whether he actually downvoted.
 
@rubenvb There is a lot of work, but it is exciting to see progress.
 
sbi
@Neil I had been waiting for someone to post that...
 
Personally, I don't know what's more exciting. It being there or not being there. That's the nice thing about physics, we like to be amazed.
 
@sbi Yes, I just saw that.
 
3:37 PM
@sbi True. That innocent victim should just be strong enough to ignore the nonsensical discussion.
 
I don't see any ++i in the sidebar at all. By downvoting such questions so aggressively, you risk question-banning the OP. — Robert Harvey 6 mins ago
 
sbi
@rubenvb ...which is exactly what I said in my comment.
 
^ the man has a good point
 
@sehe I have mixed feelings about it.
 
sbi
@sehe Yeah, I just saw this. Well, I didn't downvote. :)
 
3:38 PM
@sbi Oh I know it. That's why I log into Lounge<C++>. Just for moments like these
 
@DomagojPandža This is a lot more interesting than anything Higgs related IMHO: bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17695944
 
@Insilico Me too. That doesn't contradict the fact that the man has a good point
 
On one hand, Harvey has a point. On the other hand, I'd wish people actually develop their problem solving skills.
 
@sbi Me neither :)
 
(I didn't downvote, of course.)
Searching for the exact same things in your question != problem solving.
 
3:39 PM
@sbi Never heard it before lol
 
You don't have to search for i++.
 
@Insilico Also, it is hard to search for
 
@sehe So you figure out something else to search?
 
No it's not fucking hard
 
sbi
@Drise Two of my kids learned it when they were in the UK. One of my daughters can say this at a speed that I cannot follow listening despite the fact that I now know it...
 
3:40 PM
Half of the questions in the sidebar are UB
 
sbi
@Cicada Poor girl.
 
And besides, if you're getting interviewed, presumably you know the language already.
 
@sbi Why is this a problem?
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel You think too straight.
 
@Insilico To be honest, I think the better strategy would have been to extract sub expressions. Rewrite it as i=(i=i+1)/(i, i++); Somehow, I think it would dawn on the OP
 
3:41 PM
@Cicada half the C++ questions are UB.
6
 
@rubenvb Heard about that, the potential is amazing. But I haven't had a chance to read more on their experiments, too much damn work.
 
Half C++ is UB.
 
@Insilico Yeah, like "lolcats"
 
@Cicada I usually tend to. It's easier that way.
 
@Drise I'm soooo laughing egad
 
3:42 PM
@sehe That would at least indicate some research effort. :-P
 
Well, you could specify an entire language, let's say language U and put into its specification: Undefined Behavior.
 
@Cicada I hope you are trolling.
 
Done.
It's like the hello world of programming language specification.
 
@Drise No I'm pretty serious
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I didn't know someone flagged that.
 
3:43 PM
@Drise And you, my friend, are seriously trolling.
 
I thought flags were for offensive/spammy comments?
 
@Drise Zing
@Insilico No, also for chatty/unconstructive/offtopic
 
But in the Lounge, nobody cares about flags.
 
@sehe Eh. Fine then.
 
We just wait, patiently... For John Smith.
And his foretold return.
 
3:44 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes the whole question will have had an auto "too many comments" flag
 
There are people who still use Turbo C? I thought this was the 21st century?
 
@Flexo Somebody really ought to write a comment about that
 
The path to Acknowledgement™, an award-winning title by one John Smith, who conquered the abyss that is the Lounge and lived to tell about it.
 
sbi
That is indeed a good point. However, these ++i + i++ questions are the prototype of questions that make people at SO go mad, because they are asked so often. It's the example used in my post about creating a C++ FAQ. Yes, those downvotes were probably not all deserved, the question should have simply gotten closed. But the OP was a victim of the great "popularity" (among askers, that is) of his question. And if I look at the list of linked questions, half of them do seem to point at the same problem. — sbi 46 secs ago
 
Hahaha. I received this spam:
> Do you know who posted these photos online?? This is strange cause there's your FB acc there. Why did you do it and how did you get my photos?? This is a crime actually do you know?? I put one photo in attachment. We have to clear this thing or else I'll have to contact my lawer!
 
3:46 PM
@Insilico some places still teach it to save money apparently
 
@Flexo So you save more money with Turbo C than with GCC?
 
Note: I don't use FB. So nice
@Flexo That's not saving money. Save money, use gcc. Make money, develop clang
 
@sehe That's definitely a unique approach
 
@DomagojPandža I'm not so sure he lived
 
Not sure how that would work though.. where's the catch?
He threatens to sue and you oblige him several thousand dollars to not sue your own FB account?
 
3:48 PM
@Neil The attachment. It is a zip, containing an exe. Like, it wouldn't be obvious that it isn't a virus
 
lol there's an awful lot of i = ++i + i++ questions in
 
@sehe Ah, okay. :)
 
@sehe Only a little. She started it.
 
@sehe Why did this statement make me crave for some Fallout: New Vegas?
 
Got a nice phishing attempt the other day from www.wellsfargoemail.com
 
3:48 PM
@Flexo Maybe... the TC++ implementation of UB is buggy!?
 
sbi
@sehe Scott Hanselmann wrote the other day that we would be dead if spammers learned to type correctly. I think this is wrong, though, because they are just picking their target group.
 
I have to admire the handy work, it looked genuinely authentic
 
Ah, there was a DLC about a walking dead man in the Mojave, people are not sure whether he lived or died.
 
@Drise No, she didn't fucking start it :)
 
@sehe I didn't say it made sense, but there was a question kicking around a while back about why people still use it
 
3:49 PM
(I'm interested in how Turbo-C generate asm for that code)
 
@sehe start it hard
 
@sehe Can you really call something buggy or not if it's undefined behavior?
 
@sbi Yeah, that was linked from the Bruce Schneier blog the other day :)
 
2
Q: Should Turbo C++ still be used for learning purposes?

ThePlanI'm a young student trying to learn C and C++ to a more advanced level, and in my school, on every computer there are only 2 compilers: Mingw and Turbo C++, from which we only use Turbo C++ At home I've been using Turbo C++ for my homework and assignments, but I've been getting advices from bett...

 
@Flexo It was a nice stat. Now, who'll make the infograph for inclusion in tag wiki?
 
sbi
3:50 PM
@sehe Oh, I musta missed that. One of my cow-workers sent the link around a few weeks ago.
 
Every thing that starts with Turbo sounds douchey.
 
@sbi "straight pipe no lube".
 
@DomagojPandža It used to be cool. Turbo Prolog, Turbo Pascal, even Turbo Basic (ephemeral)
 
sbi
Yeah once, TC was great.
 
<fail /> Fail task is fail.
 
3:52 PM
@sbi And blazingly fast. On my 286
 
Lol. Just go a mail from a headhunter office. They want a C++ developer and are willing to pay 420 EUR/day for a 6 month contract. extension of another 6 months is 99% sure. Not sure what to think of this.
 
@sbi I think I remember the day, when compiling Turbo Pascal programs required a floppy disk change midway (apparently at the start of the linking phase)
 
@StackedCrooked What's the market rate for developers over there?
 
@StackedCrooked They want to be on the cheap. Ditch the head hunter. Contact the client. Better: ditch both
 
@StackedCrooked How many days a week?
 
3:53 PM
@Insilico Definitely not 420 euros a day
 
@DomagojPandža Dunno.
 
@DomagojPandža 28
 
That's really the first thing is to see if they're paying at or above market rate. Otherwise you're wasting your time.
 
@Neil All aboard the fail train! Choo choo!
 
Assuming a month is 22 working days then they are offering 9240 EUR per month (before tax). Normal wages are 2600 - 3000 EUR/month.
 
3:54 PM
@sehe Brilliant. :)
 
sbi
@sehe I can't remember that, because back then I was on the wrong side of the iron curtain. The first Turbo compiler I got my hands on was, I think TC2. ICBWT. I definitely remember using TC3.
 
@EtiennedeMartel You use ant?
 
@StackedCrooked What the fuck. That's like 3 times my salary.
 
Old compilers should be thrown into Hell.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Lol, same for me :p
 
3:55 PM
@Neil Used NAnt once.
 
This includes anything predating MSVC2008.
 
I pay some of my employees on a basis of around 3000-4000 EUR, depending on their varying knowledge sets.
A month, of course.
10k EUR seems like an overkill
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked Ask them what the catch is. If they don't come forward with something convincing, do not touch that job with a ten-feet pole.
 
Maybe it's illegal stuff.
 
@sbi What do you consider convincing?
 
3:55 PM
@Insilico Tits, obviously.
 
might just be the short term risk thing - I'm not keen on any more short contracts
 
good morning everyone :D
 
@StackedCrooked What I would assume is that the reason they are offering that salary is because they cannot get good workers otherwise.
so for example, they probably have terrible working conditions
 
@sbi Ah. The first one I arrived at was 3.0 (15 3.5" floppies IIRC). My first turbo pascal fit on (I think) two 5.25" floppies (doublesided, doubledensity, presumably)... That was... around 1990, when we didn't have a PC either, but I went to friends to get 'computer time'
 
@sbi I'm not really considering the job. But it does disturb me a little.
 
3:56 PM
@DomagojPandža Where do you live and who do you work for? I'm packing my bags this instance...
 
@DeadMG It's funny to see people buy themselves into false economies.
 
building Android for the first time. This is exciting.
 
@DeadMG I think they urgently need a developer due to circumstances. It's only a 6 month contract + likely second 6 month term. I don't think they want to give somebody a permanent position. This seems more like a freelance job to me.
 
@rubenvb Exciting, you say?
 
@rubenvb Let us know if it works.
 
3:58 PM
@StackedCrooked Ah, that explains it.
 
sbi
@Insilico Really, how am I to answer that? There's an infinite amount of possible stories, I can't divide infinity into "convincing" and "not" for you. I'd go for my gut feeling about their answer.
 
@rubenvb Jelly bean? What device?
 
@Neil Croatia, but it has nothing do with the country. If anything, they've been dragging me down for years with all their obnoxious approaches to the economy system. We're now pending for EU in 2013., I actually offered DeadMG to come aboard next year since he was talking about finding a job.
 
They're waist deep in shit and they're ready to pay someone a lot to make sure it doesn't get to neck deep.
 
@Drise For starters, just CM7.2 for my Legend.
 
3:58 PM
@StackedCrooked I'm sure my current client is paying in excess of 500 EUR / day for me. And that way, they get me cheap, since we're on a 'frame contract' (think: volume contract). Obviously, I don't see much of that :) I'm just an employee. Gladly
 
@sbi You could've just given examples. :-P
 
@rubenvb Noice. Ok, I should Explain this. I have this friend and whenever he says Nice! it usually is pronounced Noice! since he has some sort of accent. Its fairly funny irl.
 
Then I'm going to try to use someone elses ICS port to modify some stuffs.
I want to use ffmpeg instead of the missing HW media decoding stuff for ICS.
 
@DomagojPandža Ah well that explains that. That'll all change once you're part of the EU.
 
Problem is: Android is a messy gluey ball of projects.
 
3:59 PM
@StackedCrooked Where is it. Anywhere near me :)
 
sbi
@Insilico The reason I gave the advice I gave was that I couldn't come up with an idea of my own, what would rectify such a salary offered by run-of-the-mill headhunters.
 

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