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@TonyTheLion That's Art.
 
Quick: %e is to float as __ is to double.
 
%∞
 
@JimNorton This should be easy for you?
Nevermind... Google tells me its %lf.
Fucking C.
 
9:11 PM
Oh, yeah, sounds right
arg, deadmg's question is still 95
 
@Drise lol
 
better get +5 by the end of the week lol
 
Damn make clean, make -j taking up all my rams. All 12 GB
 
Cleverbot is an idiot who passed the Turing test.
 
9:16 PM
Apparently, Cleverbot likes to touch dicks.
 
it does.
 
Guess what.
Do you like to touch dicks?
No.
 
Cleverbot is drunk today.
 
It lied to me!
 
Enough screenshots for today.
2 mins ago, by Radek Slupik
Enough screenshots for today.
It's so drunk it's getting poetic.
 
9:25 PM
0
Q: Make -j RAM limits

DriseIs there any way to force make -j to not over consume my RAM? I work on a dev team, and we have different hardware sets, so -j8 may not be optimal for everyone. However, make -j uses too much RAM for me, and spills over into swap, which can take down my entire system. How can I avoid this?

Any thoughts?
 
Don't run more compiler processes than you can handle?
How do you want to "limit" RAM usage.
 
Yes, that's definitely limits RAM usage.
 
@CatPlusPlus Idk. Ideally, it would watch the system load.
 
Sure. The compiler can't use more RAM than what's available.
 
9:26 PM
@Drise And do what, exactly?
Run less processes, geez, it's not rocket science.
 
@CatPlusPlus Stop spawning threads.
@CatPlusPlus I run 4 processes. My IDE, chrome, a terminal, and mail. It still consumes over 10 GB of 12 GB.
 
What threads?
 
Stop Chrome. >:3
 
Yeah, Internet Explorer all the way!
 
-j8 runs 8 jobs simultaneously. Which is probably 8 compiler instances.
Just don't do -j8, gah.
 
9:29 PM
@Drise I know you are past this already, but this is a good resource.
@Drise Environment variable used by make?
 
9:43 PM
Quiet in here.. Wow
1
A: Make -j RAM limits

Jim NortonThe somewhat simple solution would be for each workstation to have an environment variable that is suited to what that hardware can handle. Have the makefile read this environment variable and pass it to the -j option. How to get gnu make to read env variables. Also, if the build process has man...

 
@Drise Do you know how many processes Chrome spawns? All of them, basically.
 
@keith.layne Yea, I know.
 
what is going on? Is make getting called from a makefile?
 
0
Q: Should I repeat inclusions in .cpp and .h?

Andrea CasacciaScenario: foo.h: #include <vector> class foo { public: std::vector* getVector(); /* ... other methods ... */ } foo.cpp: #include "foo.h" #include <vector> /* ... other methods using std::vector ... */ std::vector* foo::getVector() { return new std::vector(); } I wa...

Close votes.
 
I thought there was already a env var that make would use for -j to limit processes
 
9:52 PM
@keith.layne Hrm... I've not heard of such a thing. But I'm not really a make expert either.
 
@Drise, Isn't there a dupe of that?
 
@chris There might be, I didn't check. But I flagged as NaRQ.
 
> When the system is heavily loaded, you will probably want to run fewer jobs than when it is lightly loaded. You can use the ‘-l’ option to tell make to limit the number of jobs to run at once, based on the load average. The ‘-l’ or ‘--max-load’ option is followed by a floating-point number. For example,

-l 2.5
will not let make start more than one job if the load average is above 2.5. The ‘-l’ option with no following number removes the load limit, if one was given with a previous ‘-l’ option.
 
Isn't this part of a Halo soundtrack?
 
@keith.layne Nice find!
 
10:01 PM
@keith.layne Is load average defined as CPU or CPU+RAM? or?
 
I'm gonna post an answer
load is complicated
 
@keith.layne CPU is fine, I could care less about CPU. But it's my ram...
 
@Drise Load generally refers to CPU usage.
 
not exactly, actually, not really close
in this case
 
@keith.layne Who or what comment are you referring to?
In UNIX computing, the system load is a measure of the amount of computational work that a computer system performs. The load average represents the average system load over a period of time. It conventionally appears in the form of three numbers which represent the system load during the last one-, five-, and fifteen-minute periods. Unix-style load calculation All Unix and Unix-like systems generate a metric of three "load average" numbers in the kernel. Users can easily query the current result from a Unix shell by running the uptime command: $ uptime 14:34:03 up 10:43, 4 use...
 
10:07 PM
@JimNorton that's the load it's talking about. Spot on. Drise, pimp my answer and give me a 100000000000 rep bounty.
 
@keith.layne But @Drise is more concerned about memory usage. Not CPU load. :-)
 
I'm hungry due to reading “Reverse Polish notation calculator” in the TOC of Learn You a Haskell for Great Good! and thinking of xkcd comic 645.
 
@keith.layne I will pimp yours if you pimp mine. :-)
 
Pimp all the things.
 
@Drise Ok.. pimping...
 
10:11 PM
 
@Drise NOW that is PIMPING!
Ok, I've pimped the question, good question btw, and pimped Keith's answer - good answer! Where the pimpage for my answer now? :-)
Gah
 
Check it out: load is not really cpu usage. It is a combination of a lot of things. You want to use as much RAM as possible (that's what it's for) without swapping, because then life sucks. Load is the thing that will most effectively do what he wants. It will skyrocket when RAM is exhausted. A sensible limit will do exactly what he wants.
 
@keith.layne However the load will only go up a lot if IO is highly CPU intensive, which is not always the case. Think of expensive hardware RAID cards.
GAH!
Where is everybody?
But I think a combination of your answer and mine is the way to go.
 
I'm here.
I see a conversation about hardware? oooh what did I miss?
 
basically (I'd love to hear a concrete counterexample) if RAM is exhausted, load will shoot up. Period.
At least that's my understanding...would not mind to be wrong, then I'd learn something.
Man, my streak of no or only negative rep just got broke.
 
10:19 PM
@keith.layne NSFW!! NSFW!!!
 
@keith.layne that's usually the case. When you run out of ram, you start thrashing VM. So the CPU load will go down.
 
@keith.layne If you weren't a chatter, I would have definitely reported that comment.
 
@keith.layne Load will go up when swapping of course. But that is going to be a function of how expensive disk IO is for the CPU. Some servers have very good disk drive controllers that greatly reduce the amount of CPU load when doing a lot of disk IO
 
the CPU is often idling on my machine if the load gets too high, it's all I/O cycles.
@Drise dude, what did I do?
 
Now pimp my answer, just because you love me and it's not a bad answer... :-)
 
10:21 PM
I can type in italics too. Too chatty. lol.
 
wow, I mean, that's why I stay away from SO proper. I'm a smartass, but not out of malice, only in fun.
 
@keith.layne Dude, I think @Drise is having fun also... :-)
 
@keith.layne I know.
 
Drise isn't into fun. He only likes chipmunk pr0n.
 
@keith.layne Only always, duh.
 
10:25 PM
I actually think my answer could potentially be more flexible.. I like the idea of having a separate daemon running that monitors load/RAM usage and modifies the env variable..., But that's just me..
I could really be out in left field..
 
@JimNorton You know, I have no experience with a setup like that, so I think that's why it doesn't sink in. I do however think that the system load may be the most effective metric for controlling make, because you probably won't see that in a dev setup. But I'm speculating.
If you're running a build server, that sounds good. I just think it's a little overly complex for building on your local machine.
 
@keith.layne I'm struggling to get the proper load factor.. 10 is too little (only one thread spawns) and 12 is too much (maxes my ram)
 
@keith.layne Oh I think you find some good information about make. It could work well. But if the concern is largely RAM usage, it's not clear how RAM usage affects load.
@Drise, did you PLONK me?
 
10???? that's ridiculously high!
I would say RAM does not affect load directly, it would be more of a "RAM is used, load shoots up" threshold
 
@keith.layne Erm, how do you figure? My load average when doing a rebuild all is 27 ish
 
10:30 PM
dude, what OS are you using? a load of 1.0 is what you aim for generally.
 
Ubuntu 11.04
 
if someone has mysql experience (db structure design), please help stackoverflow.com/questions/11639424/…
 
load average: 19.39, 15.44, 10.94
 
oh plz hlp kthxbye
 
That's from top
@epic_syntax Piss off.
 
10:31 PM
that's ridiculous
 
Watch me get flagged again.
 
@keith.layne yeah those loads are high even for 4 cores.
 
Could someone advise me for a resource to learn how to use SQL (MySQL/SQLite/PostgreeSQL) with C/C++?
 
@Drise DUDE... I feel like you PLONKED me...
 
@unNaturhal What, is it noobs ask question time?
@JimNorton Plonk?
 
10:32 PM
@unNaturhal there's this thing, don't know if you've heard of it, it's called the INTERNET
 
@keith.layne +5 internets.
 
@Drise Ok nevermind :-)
 
@JimNorton I'm confused.
 
@Drise I thought you plonked me... Put me on your ignore list.
 
10:33 PM
:)
 
@unNaturhal You should leave.
 
Summer of Love, bitches.
 
@unNaturhal Google? Amazon?
 
@Drise man, I'm not sure any more. Even the load numbers on this netbook without major slowness don't seem right:
> top - 18:36:55 up 8:49, 0 users, load average: 1.92, 2.44, 2.28
Tasks: 143 total, 1 running, 141 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie
Cpu(s): 1.5%us, 1.5%sy, 0.0%ni, 79.0%id, 17.9%wa, 0.0%hi, 0.2%si, 0.0%st
Mem: 2053832k total, 1643860k used, 409972k free, 223296k buffers
Swap: 1999864k total, 0k used, 1999864k free, 692020k cached
well, it was about 3.5 before.
 
@Drise This chat alternate periods when is full of assholes, and periods when you are lucky and can found people like Jim (and the other guys that helped me this afternoon) that are available to help. You'd consider to put a flag on the chat with "Available" or "Asshole time"...
 
10:37 PM
@keith.layne do top and hit the 1 key
 
@JimNorton forget it, don't care. Thanks for the help of this afternoon.
 
Well, I'm going to head out folks. Good luck with the drive by linkers.
 
what, split CPUs?
 
@Drise CYA good luck
 
for the record, I was just kidding, I just didn't have an answer
 
10:38 PM
@unNaturhal You are welcome. I will most always help when I can
@unNaturhal I also don't have an answer.... I'd have to google the question as I haven't done any C DB work.
 
Basically, I don't know how to interpret load averages anymore. Maybe what I thought I knew I no longer know.
 
Only with Perl DBI
 
Okay, time to play with my kids, I'll catch you later.
 
Ell
hi guys
 
@keith.layne cya
Hey Ell.. how goes it?
 
Ell
10:41 PM
how is the Cairo wrapper going Jim? done any more work on it since yesterday?
it goes well :) and you? how was your day?
 
@Ell Yeah, I've done some testing, and been thinking about the rest of the OO design.
 
Ell
oh cool, testing is good. what thoughts you been having?
 
@Ell Glad to hear it. I'm good. Work is going well, being productive and having fun.
@Ell Most easily answered here. :-)
4
Q: Object Oriented Design - Convert C Application to C++

Jim NortonI'm starting the process of learning C++ and object oriented design. What are the known / common techniques for converting procedural code to object-oriented code? What design choices make sense for the following code? typedef struct { int sector; int sectorPos; }EndPosition; typedef st...

 
Ell
enjoy the productivity! I am never productive anymore :L
 
I had my own ideas before posting the question. But I really don't want to just create classes for the sake of doing so. I really want to know how to create a proper OO design.
@Ell Well, I'm not always productive, some days more than others. I always get my work done on time though.
For me productivity goes hand in hand with my level of creativity.
So what do you do for a living Ell?
I'm assuming you still work.. lol
 
Ell
10:47 PM
actually I don't work yet, I'm 16 and currently looking for a part time job :L
programming is just a hobby really
 
@Ell Oh ok.... Any ideas what you want to do for a living?
I can chat for a bit, I'm taking my lunch break now.
 
Ell
but I do hope to go into computer science or electrical engineering when I'm older
 
@Ell Good choice... Can't go wrong with technology now a days.
 
Ell
ah okay just tell me when you have to be going :) I ought to be getting sleep soon anyway
 
@Ell Ok
 
Ell
10:49 PM
yeah I figure its something I enjoy and it will be sticking around for a very long time
 
I'm surprised at how quiet this room is right now. I've never seen it this way before.
 
Ell
yeah ever now and then it just goes silent
 
@chris Wish my office firewall didn't block youtube
 
It's Brahms's Lullaby
 
Ell
10:51 PM
I'm not sure about programmers salaries - I wouldn't do something I didn't enjoy but if I have multiple options I would take the one that let's me be more comfortable. and I guess there are experts/novices in every field so its all about experience and skill
 
Top Comments
I set this song as my alarm clock ringtone once... that was stupid.
@Ell, I'm in the same boat. It can be very rewarding if you become proficient enough.
But it's what I love to do anyway, and will just become more and more prominent in society.
 
Ell
yeah
 
@chris I enjoy that song... love classical
 

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