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2:00 PM
@RadekdaknokSlupik that's stupid
work smarter, not harder
 
@DeadMG Is that for the SHA-2 thing?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes No
 
does any one else read 'SHA-2' as 'shat-oo'
 
Ah.
@thecoshman No.
I read it as "Simple Hash Algorithm 2".
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Mhmm. Having girls among my kids, I regular see girls' bottoms. And I never got zapped for touching them. (Well, if you exclude that one time where she had a stomach problem at the age of ~2 months, and I got zapped with "coagulated yogurt".)
 
2:02 PM
@thecoshman My father-in-law is very confident in his electricians skills, even though he isn't an electrician. It has happened on more than one occasion to be touching live electrical wire (and obviously not touching anything else).
 
@sbi TMI. (I could have linked to a trope but didn't!)
 
Not that I would recommend doing that to anyone, in fact I was continually imagining hte scenario where I'd have to hit him with a shovel to kick him off the current flowing through his body
 
@thecoshman I read it that way .
 
Though that never happened
 
@Neil Oh, so he was in space?
 
2:03 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Nope.
He pulled the casing off a live electrical wire and twisted the copper filings with his fingers
I saw him do it, and I know it was live because he insisted we leave the power on (I never said he was completely right in the head)
 
@Neil ಠ_ಠ
 
aargh
ICU y no provide swap for ur string class
 
Though probably had he been touching some sort of ground, that wouldn't have gone quite so well
I don't think I'll ever be that confident with electricity, though you're right, electricity is no more lethal than a weapon. If you aren't careful, then it can be lethal yes.
 
What can be more lethal than a weapon?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Being well isolated is enough. I have seen electricians check wires for "liveness" by (shortly) touching them with their hands, mumbling things like "life", "dead", "life", "life"..., or even "240V", "380V", "240V"... This works well for most of them throughout their whole professional life, and then comes this moment where one of them forgets that he had just sloshed through the puddle outside the building 5mins ago and he gets fried.
 
2:09 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Lethal weapon 2.
 
@sbi No, that's not enough to be "not touching anything else".
IOW, that was a joke.
@Neil :) I was totally looking for that answer.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't get what you're saying.
 
7 mins ago, by Neil
@thecoshman My father-in-law is very confident in his electricians skills, even though he isn't an electrician. It has happened on more than one occasion to be touching live electrical wire (and obviously not touching anything else).
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Glad I could help you today, sir. *nod*
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes But I never said it's enough to not to be touching anything else. In fact, I even brought up an example where you don't need to touch anything (assuming a meaning of "touching" that employs your hands) in order to die.
 
2:11 PM
Dammit, stop ruining my lame jokes.
 
sbi
You're a robot. You cannot make jokes. You can only remember things others said to which their audience reacted amused.
 
damn
 
Pro-tip: if your network facing code isn't working, check the network connection first.
JUST A TROLL: Sometimes I think I have got lot..lot...lot to learn :( I tried to read this question and I thought I am reading some star wars movie script — TweetWithThisOwl_FollowMe 59 secs ago
I'm not sure what happened there.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Free flag weight.
 
when I remove a file from a project in VC++, is that file deleted or just removed from the workspace ?:s
 
2:18 PM
array-to-pointer-decay, is it a "free" conversion in the Standard?
I'd like to have template<int N> String& operator=(const wchar_t(&other)[N]) and String& operator=(const wchar_t*).
 
What does "free" mean?
@DeadMG Yes, you can have that.
 
awesome
 
@DeadMG is that for ICU string thing? That'll only be portable on Windows, sizeof(wchat_t) isn't generally 4.
 
I have little choice
 
I bet he's only interested in Windows :P
 
2:21 PM
I've had error messages hundreds of lines wrong. I'm not sure if it's good nor not to break that law.
 
use narrow strings? bite extended ASCII on Windows
 
@DeadMG Then you're not so free.
 
use wide strings? bite 32bit wchar_t on Unix
it's a fucked situation
 
or use char16_t and typedef it for your concerns.
 
2:21 PM
typedef mychar long; std::basic_string<mychar>;
 
damn, the robot is f-fast
 
@rubenvb ICU actually already provides such typedef
 
@stdOrgnlDave if that isn't the worst idea ever, I don't knw what is.
 
although I'd have to alter all my source to be char16_t literals
 
@stdOrgnlDave Police are coming to your house at this moment, sir. Please stay put.
 
2:22 PM
@DeadMG char16_t will be the same as wchar_t on MSVC anyways, they don't have those types.
 
@rubenvb He's obviously happy to specialize char_traits, locales etc. for it
 
@rubenvb Doesn't matter. What matters is that, hopefully, GCC would live with it.
 
@rubenvb definition of std::string: typedef std::basic_string<char> string; yes it has tons of specialized functions but that's where the fun is!
 
yeah, char16_t is typedef for unsigned short, and ICU won't take that
 
@DeadMG well that's just a stupid typedef (for Windows) IMHO.
 
2:24 PM
@rubenvb True. But I'm stuck with it.
 
oh, if you want 16-bit strings there's a good bet you have a basic_string<int16_t> specialization
 
@stdOrgnlDave wut?
 
@stdOrgnlDave I doubt that std::u16string provides break iterators and other things I'm using from ICU
 
@rubenvb The worst idea ever?
> Taking dinosaurs off this island is the worst idea in the long, sad history of bad ideas. - Ian Malcolm in Jurassic Park II
 
@DeadMG does std::string provide them? it's just a std::basic_string<char>. wstring is std::basic_string<int32_t> or std::basic_string<int16_t>
 
2:25 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes another nonstandard char like type? Yeah, that's a bad idea in my book.
 
@stdOrgnlDave No.
 
@DeadMG How can you write a move constructor with just a swap? Just curious.
 
@stdOrgnlDave That's just a dumb byte container.
 
@stdOrgnlDave wrong: wchar_t is a distinct type.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes that's what an std::string is
 
2:26 PM
but ICU's UChar is wchar_t on Windows and char16_t on Unix, so that's probably the most portable I'll get.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Erm, swap.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Default construct dest, then swap.
it's as good as a move, if dest has no resource acquisition when it's empty
that's why "swaptimization" was quite successful as a tactic before real move semantics came in
:3933586 Not allowed by Standard.
 
Oh, it's the whole "no resource acquisition when it's empty" that bugged me.
 
Well, it's a fair assumption.
 
@rubenvb if they're typedef'd off each other then the compiler will not treat them as such (unfortunately; it would make SFINAE templates much easier)
 
2:28 PM
What with the whole "don't pay for what you use" thingy.
@stdOrgnlDave They can't be typedefed.
They're required to be distinct.
 
@DeadMG damn. I believe you but can you provide citation? I'd like to read it
 
@stdOrgnlDave Wut? wchar_t is a distinct overloadable type as per the Standard. You can't typedef wchar_t as int16_t on any compliant compiler.
 
@rubenvb other way around. but it's distinct. edit, let me be explicit. if you compiler does this: typedef int16 wchar_t;
 
> Type wchar_t is a distinct type whose values can represent distinct codes for all members of the largest extended character set specified among the supported locales (22.3.1). Type wchar_t shall have the same size, signedness, and alignment requirements (3.11) as one of the other integral types, called its underlying type.
> Types char16_t and char32_t denote distinct types with the same size, signedness, and alignment as uint_least16_t and uint_least32_t, respectively, in <stdint.h>, called the underlying types.
§3.9.1/5
 
fuuuu
ICU y u no provide good error-handling interface?
 
2:30 PM
robots are handy when standardese is involved
2
 
Honestly, who's the best standardese-to-English translator here?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Schaub
 
Litb
 
Yeah, that's what I was suspecting.
 
the man is a machine (no offense @RMartinhoFernandes)
 
2:31 PM
who is this mysterious litb? I have not seen him
 
Is there a File's Extended Property which gives the "size on disk" in bytes ?
 
@stdOrgnlDave Pops in once a while. Goes by @JohannesSchaublitb.
 
@stdOrgnlDave @JohannesSchaubllitb
 
@FailedNoob are you trying to find NTFS file size?
oh, him
yeah he's cool
 
2:32 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Massive amount of answers though
 
He generally crashes in here with a single word in caps like "FOLKS" or "GUYS".
Then he does... some... things.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Dudes
 
That as well.
 
@FailedNoob it's important to know
 
Failed riddles, mostly
 
2:33 PM
And he rocks C++11.
 
hmmm
 
@sehe He has learned to add disclaimers like "no comments, macros, string literals".
 
I wish I had a compiler that rocked C++11 :-(
 
mb std::unique_ptr<icu::UnicodeString>?
 
The riddles were too easy before.
 
2:34 PM
@stdOrgnlDave I wish I had a compiler that rocked.
2
 
not surprised that ICU provides no move constructor, but I am surprised that it provides no swap
 
@DeadMG I'd call that a good compromise.
Feels icky, but I think it's just emotional.
 
@stdOrgnlDave Sorry for the delay, here is a screenshot
 
@DeadMG you really expect ICU to have C++11 features already?
 
2:35 PM
swap is not C++11.
 
@stdOrgnlDave swap is pretty basic C++03 stuff.
 
@FailedNoob getting a size on disk of a NTFS file is extremely complicated and takes special voodoo. I remember reading about it on an MSDN blog, I wish I could find it
 
@rubenvb He cheated! He went on a rampage retagging everything in to ! (That was a good thing, btw)
FTR, I was the first to get a badge.
 
My right arrow key is completely smooth.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes but it wasn't gold was it? :P
 
you know
 
There should be a badge for `'ing smilies.
 
@stdOrgnlDave Thank you
 
the only thing I actually need ICU for is stuff like BreakIterators
 
@rubenvb I didn't use time travel/history rewriting!
 
2:36 PM
and apparently, you can set them to operate on wchar_t*
 
@FailedNoob let's see if my memory is right and this is relevant
 
perhaps I should just ditch UnicodeString directly
 
@DeadMG What's a break iterator, btw?
 
@DeadMG I thought you were reinventing everything anyways? Unicode can't be that hard.
 
(I'm fine with a RTFM link)
 
2:37 PM
@rubenvb that's @MooingDuck
 
@rubenvb Yes, it can.
 
unless he's finished/given up on his Yet Another Unicode Class
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It's for iterating through extended grapheme clusters, or, characters as the users sees them.
 
Ah, ok.
This for the game, then?
 
i.e., if you enter a character in a text box, and you push backspace, BreakIterator ca tell you how many codepoints to eliminate
yeah, but I'm also gonna need it for Wide
 
2:38 PM
Hmm, I actually don't mind backspace removing only one combining character.
 
Pushing keys
 
@DeadMG They even have an automated test suite thing among the files here unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA
 
Avoids having to retype the whole shebang if you only get one wrong.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes You'd be talking about removing, say, only the accent, or something like that.
and afaik, such things are usually only one keyboard hit
 
@DeadMG I like how the guy on your question is completely dodging the question.
 
2:39 PM
@FailedNoob as a bonus, I guess the article provides example code to get the file size. +1 for my memory
 
@EtiennedeMartel I know, a bit WTF isn't it?
 
@DeadMG Yes, I understand. I can see a reasoning for both approaches.
 
@DeadMG not a VIM user are you
 
@DeadMG I find WTFs entertaining. I just sit back, grab some popcorn, and enjoy the show.
 
@stdOrgnlDave Ahem. understatement of the year
 
2:40 PM
@sehe Hey, that's my line.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I hope you're not talking about TDWTF because that went downhill a year ago :-(
 
well, as an English speaker, everything I type is in the ASCII plane
so I don't have first-hand experience of how it works in any environment
 
you're doing it wrong
 
What's wrong with TDWTF?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes it started recycling boring posts, getting no interesting posts, and basically sucking generally?
 
2:41 PM
@DeadMG Well, look at it this way: the user has to type the characters separately anyway to input them. Why would backspace undo more than one?
 
@DeadMG You type on a plane? Man, you're rich.
 
it's more like "the daily why the fuck do we still try"
 
@stdOrgnlDave You're slowly turning into this chatroom's third hater, you know.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Uh, I'm not sure they do at all.
 
2:42 PM
This one is awesome.
 
@EtiennedeMartel hating on the daily WTF is compleyely justified
 
@EtiennedeMartel Who's the second hater? I know about @DeadMG...
 
@EtiennedeMartel Third?
 
@rubenvb @CatPlusPlus
 
in Room for sehe and John Smith, 24 mins ago, by sehe
Closing room. Nothing to be seen here, move on
@sehe you clown you
 
2:43 PM
@thecoshman huh why
 
besides
I need BreakIterators for things other than that anyway... I think
 
I was trying to get more dropbox space by using Linux LiveCD and VM's.
 
aaargh I hate you Unicode :(
 
@sehe read "lol"
 
@RMartinhoFernandes they have had a few good ones in the past 2 weeks, but I'm not calling their dead streak over yet
 
2:44 PM
@DeadMG Well, that's what happens in Windows.
 
It turns out that I have a very good reason to use Arch: it just works. I tried both Ubuntu and Fedora and the LiveCD hung at some point during the dropbox install process.
 
huh
 
Ridiculous.
 
probably best to just follow their lead then
 
Ludicrous.
 
2:44 PM
@rubenvb Arch's awesome.
 
Noah was a really nice guy, from what I've heard.
 
clang won't link for me unless I up my RAM to 2.5gb in my ubuntu 12.04 dev VM
 
@RMartinhoFernandes yeah, but to set up an Arch VM for each 500MB extra is kind of a drag :(
@stdOrgnlDave did you disable debug?
 
@rubenvb You lost me now.
Clang needs ~2.5 GB of disk space to build.
 
@rubenvb the official docs didn't say to...should I? if so, how?
 
2:45 PM
ok
so instead of just hammering at it, let's actually consider what Unicode facilities I need
 
If you build on on tmpfs like me, you need 2.5GB of RAM :P
 
@RMartinhoFernandes each "referral" aka friend who installs dropbox on a PC gets you 500MB extra online storage space. I wanted to VM my way into having new dropbox friends :)
 
@stdOrgnlDave cmake or configure?
 
2:46 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes lol. FYI I gave up. No decent liveCD's around anymore :(
 
Unicode rendering -> rendering API takes care of that
Unicode GUI I/O
 
You can save an install script for AIF or whatnot, and then it's a one-click install.
 
@rubenvb I have VPN service with over 50 servers around the world.
 
Well, one command install, but you get the drift.
 
@rubenvb yeah maybe I should delve in...I wondered why they wanted me to compile with debug symbols for a compiler
 
2:47 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes too much trouble for a one-time thing IMHO.
 
@rubenvb Anyways, dropbox isn't a web based service, or anything. So it's likely they never even heard about IP addresses.
 
@stdOrgnlDave Clang is more than a compiler... debug symbols in libclang are handy.
@sehe yes it has, at least PC identificatin
 
@sehe If I reset my router, I get a new one. Not a big problem.
 
right
I wanted BreakIterators for Unicode lexing
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Sucks
 
2:48 PM
I can reset it via HTTP, so it can be automated.
 
I got that on my second email address that I wanted to activate on the same dropbox application install: "Ineligible"
 
@DeadMG you could keep track of "character 4 uses x characters, character 5 uses y characters" if you hate your life
 
I don't and the only way to do that is to ask ICU
unless I want to implement my own based on the Windows API, which I don't
 
ask ICU the string length after every key press, use the difference as character size
 
2:50 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh, wait a minute
if you are at the end and you press backspace, then I don't need BreakIterator for that
but what if you are at the front and push Delete?
 
@DeadMG Assuming non-malicious input
 
or if you're in the middle and push either?
 
@DeadMG the whole compound character disappears
 
or, hell, backspace or delete in the middle? and if you push left, how many codepoints is that?
for all of those ops, I'd probably need BreakIterator, no?
 
@DeadMG Why don't you try it? Open charmap and search for "combining". Grab one to the clipboard and play around.
IOW, I have no idea.
 
2:51 PM
@DeadMG if you use char32_t internally, you don't have that problem.
 
@DeadMG std::vector<int> key_sizes; key_sizes.push_back(ICU_query_size-old_size);
 
I use dead keys to type my language's accented characters, not combining characters.
 
@rubenvb Nope. Even normalized UTF-32 is not 1 codepoint -> 1 extended grapheme cluster.
 
@DeadMG Damn. Unicode. Damn.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm pretty sure that the keyboard input method and what Windows gives me are not particularly related.
 
2:53 PM
@DeadMG No, I mean, I'm only used to typing codepoints for accented letters, i.e., one codepoint per EGC. I never typed combining characters except when playing around.
 
you're processing real-time user input, it's not like you can't afford to be a bit wasteful of CPU cycles
@RMartinhoFernandes are you talking about
 
@RMartinhoFernandes True. But there are languages like Vietnamese where they can go up to like, 6 codepoints per EGC.
 
A dead key is a special kind of a modifier key on a typewriter or computer keyboard that is typically used to attach a specific diacritic to a base letter. The dead key does not generate a (complete) character by itself but modifies the character generated by the key struck immediately after. Thus, a dedicated key is not needed for each possible combination of a diacritic and a letter, but rather only one dead key for each diacritic is needed, in addition to the normal base letter keys. For example, if a keyboard has a dead key for the grave accent (`), the French character à can be gener...
 
Anyway, it seems Delete always kills the whole cluster, while backspace kills only a codepoint.
@stdOrgnlDave Yes.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes that actually seems to make some sense
"I wanted a `a" typed `b backspace a
 
2:55 PM
I guess the reasoning is that if you use Delete, the combining characters won't just hang around uncombined.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, that would be bad.
 
Murderous keys.
 
obtw
operator++(), pre or post?
 
2:58 PM
awesum
 
operator++(int) is post.
 
Oh, you're asking which one uses the int.
 
@sbi in theory, a complex enough algorithm could be used to generate jokes
 
@thecoshman I'm not an algorithm!
2
 
@RMartinhoFernandes how so?
 
2:59 PM
I'm creative.
 

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