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12:00 AM
and no, that can never and will never work
non-stateless lambdas cannot convert to function pointers
 
hmph. thanks for answering questions
 
@DeadMG int& (*im_stateful)() = [] () -> int& { static int this_is_my_state = 17; return this_is_my_state; }; :P
 
the lambda itself isn't stateful, though
 
lordy, simply saying hello in C++ chat is a minefield, we're such pedants
 
@OrgnlDave How so? I've seen plenty of explosion-less "hello" entrances
 
12:04 AM
lol, explosion-less
0
A: Instantiating a class that derives from an interface that's inside another class that derives from an interface... just read to find out

Seth CarnegiePutting class Model; inside the class definition only forward-declares the class, as if you put a function prototype inside another function; it doesn't make it a nested class. You have to put the entire class definition immediately inside the other class, like this: class Graphics implements I_...

 
@DeadMG see, right there, you missed the obvious sarcasm and went on to point out a factual difference. non-C++ people sure do that, but C++ people are almost guarenteed to do so every time
 
@OrgnlDave There is no additional risk of explosion in a C++ chat entry.
 
if there were an explosion, you wouldn't know it, because someone wouldn't have timed out yet
 
anyway
I've done a good day's coding today
 
@ScottW didn't you mean "hello, Lounge<C++>" or "auto hello"? How are we to deduce (or at least deduce that we SHOULD deduce) who you are saying hello to?
 
12:11 AM
it's time for me to rofl off
 
Why is it that every single Java program out there inevitably blows with NullPointerException?
(rhetorical question)
 
because they do not have the glory which is RAII
 
do you rofl off in a roflcopter?
 
I don't think RAII would help against nullable references.
 
perhaps because there is no way to handle null pointer exceptions in Java? (there is no way, is there?)
 
12:14 AM
There is (catch(NullPointerException e)), but if you do that in my code, I'll shoot you.
 
what I mean is, it's trivial to handle null pointers in C/++
since we can actually, you know, see/handle our pointers
whereas in Java...
 
if(x == null)
 
exactly
 
That was Java.
Java "references" are actually called "pointers" in the spec.
 
so does that exception really mean... NullReferenceException?
 
12:16 AM
Yeah.
My point is, just initialize the damn variables.
 
haha, null reference exception, I never knew that, that's great
 
Or stick to a language with non-nullable references (not very common these days though).
 
seriously, a nullable reference?
I mean I know you can technically force it in C++, but that's just because you can abuse C++ to do anything if you're determined enough
 
Javas refs work sort of like handlers, right ?
its actually pointer to pointer ?
 
Technically you can't force anything.
 
12:18 AM
@ScarletAmaranth It's just a reference to an object?
 
should I substitute 'hack,' then?
 
@OrgnlDave Those fuckers are everywhere these days. Java, C#, Ruby, JavaScript, you name it. (Almost) Every mainstream language uses nullable references.
Why? Beats me.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I want to name them Noneable references for python
 
@RMartinhoFernandes so the question opens: is there ever a valid use case for a null reference?
 
Yes, there is.
 
12:19 AM
@OrgnlDave Sure, optional arguments of often null in those languages
 
valid and useful?
 
ahhh
 
@Collin Not sure, i saw java once, then i switched to NDK on Android ^^
 
The problem is that you're stuck with the damn nullable semantics everywhere.
You can't have non-nullable semantics.
It's just not possible.
 
12:20 AM
well
there is ONE way
 
?
 
don't code in any of those languages
I always wondered what the heck a nullpointerexception was in Java, thanks a lot for illuminating that hilarious detail
Nullable references seem thusly to bring back some of the issues eliminating pointers was meant to address
we address those very issues in C++ by using RAII
which brings us back to DeadMG's answer to your original question: because Java doesn't have RAII
 
C++ doesn't have that problem because C++ references are not nullable.
It's not because of RAII.
And the best part is, if you want nullable reference semantics in C++ you can have them: either with pointers, or with boost::optional<T&>.
 
re-read what I said. Come on. I said that nullable references bring back some of the problems that getting rid of pointers was meant to address - and we do that using RAII.
 
That's what i like about c++ actually. You need to understand pointers yet you don't have to use them :)
It's fairly sad that some script kiddies don't even know what a pointer is yet they call themselves devs :)
 
12:34 AM
I think that if you program seriously at all, you need to understand pointers, but that's an old argument that is only won when people who don't understand the basics of computers program long enough to produce really crappy code one day
 
@OrgnlDave RAII makes your code more exception safe and effectively removes the need for finally constructs. It has nothing to do with references. In fact I have no idea what the hell you put those two concepts together.
 
@Luc I took your make_unique named params code and used it for a make_value (factory for value_ptr) which has an additional parameter. That thing surely is not scalable :S Do you want me to add some kind of copyright notice or something else? I couldn't find a license on your repo.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Null reference semantics enable null reference exceptions. part of the reason pointers were eliminated was to make it harder to shoot yourself in the foot with pointer misuse (this is an oversimplification). RAII partly eliminates that exact problem, even though it does it in a completely different way: it's a lot harder to send a null reference/pointer if any objects you create/used are initialized at "acquisition"
 
No it isn't. RAII won't protect you against null pointers, for instance.
 
you'll have to excuse me because it's late. in what use case does RAII not help to protect against null pointers?
 
12:42 AM
Pointers appear to have achieved level of abstraction that some people can't wrap their heads around for some reason but yes, i agree, if you want to be "a serious programmer" (do stuff that actually does stuff), you need to understand pointers very well.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes a competently-designed RAII will make that a method that returns an object that is initialized, instead of an object
I mean
instead of it being a direct reference to an object
grr, do I need to rephrase that?
 
What if p is null?
 
p should be a function that returns an object
:-D
 
p is a pointer.
 
12:47 AM
p is a smart pointer class
that makes sure it initializes what it points to if needed
 
So? There are null smart pointers.
 
in fact, it's pretty easy to do that using a template
 
I think you don't properly understand what "RAII" means.
 
In fact, almost all smart pointer implementations out there have nullable semantics.
 
probably not
 
12:51 AM
RAII just means that an object acquires resources during its initialization (which means that it's going to release them during destruction). Nothing more.
 
You don't need references for RAII.
And without references, you're stuck with pointers.
And with pointers, you can never be certain a parameter you're given is not null.
 
Resources owned by an object should be automatically released when it goes out of scope. And that way, you no longer need to manually release them in case of an exception.
 
indeed, that is the meaning of RAII
 
Java doesn't have destructors, so you have to resort to finally.
 
@EtiennedeMartel More verbose than finally?
 
12:53 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Fixed.
 
however a side-effect is that you generally do not end up passing uninitialized variables, only ones that are destructed already
LETS DO IT
 
If you mean that C++ has automatically allocated objects, then, sure, that's a plus.
 
if n is small, why not?
 
Nov 9 '11 at 9:17, by R. Martinho Fernandes
try {
    FileInputStream f = new FileInputStream("blah");
    try {
        // do stuff
    } finally {
        try {
            f.close();
        } catch(IOException e) {
            // what now?
        }
    }
} catch(FileNotFoundException e) {
    // oops
}
I had to post this again.
:)
 
But it doesn't have anything to do with RAII.
 
12:54 AM
It's too hilarious not to.
 
roflol
 
@OrgnlDave A null pointer is initialized.
 
@ScottW make it easy to switch out when n grows then
OK, what null pointer is initialized?
 
int * p = 0; // or nullptr if you're with C++11
 
There are binary search algorithms in the standard library. Why do you need to resort to linear search?
void f(int* p) {
    // really, how does RAII help you here?
    // only trusty ole if can help you now
}
 
12:56 AM
The pointer is initialized. With zero.
 
that's not the point - I said RAII helps with some of the problems that nullable references were meant to address. in THAT case, we just check if p is null instead.
 
@OrgnlDave But what are those problems?
 
the kinds that cause nullpointerexceptions in java
 
Nullable references are just pointers that you can't do pointer arithmetic with.
Wut. Having an object that automatically releases its resources won't prevent NPEs.
 
12:58 AM
...
what do you think causes an NPE?
in Java?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Far from it. If it did, finalizers would be all the rage.
 
Using a null reference.
RAII does not prevent you from using a null reference.
It's not a magical silver bullet that makes all your references initialized to a meaningful object.
 
I never said it was...
where did I say it was?
 
RAII is about value semantics. I really fail to see the connection to nullable references.
 
@OrgnlDave I'm trying to understand what is happening inside your head.
 
1:00 AM
let me put this as straight as I can
In Java, the designers specifically left out the ability to do pointer arithmetic. Things are passed internally as references all the time, which is great.

There were many reasons for removing pointers, part of which was to sidestep a problems you encounter with pointers.

In C++, we end up sidestepping a subset of those problems with RAII. RAII is meant to write exception-safe code. A side-benefit is that it means our objects are initialized before they can be used.

Since it is initialized before it can be used, when it is used, it is not null (unless it has been destructed). It thus hel
grammar FAIL
 
The problem is not about objects, is about references.
 
Oh, so you by "RAII", you mean "value semantics".
Please use the proper terms, because otherwise it just leads to confusion.
 
no, I mean "side-effect of RAII," not value semantics
DeadMG would be rolling in his grave if (a) he cared and (b) he looked at the wikipedia article on value semantics and tried to follow this, haha
oh, and if (c) he were dead, possibly as a result of hello-related explosions
 
1:15 AM
What, DeadMG is dead?
Oh, wait.
 
ha, funny, I totally missed that until now
 
What does MG means? Machine gun?
 
if I'm wrong please tell me, this is just an argument I formulated based off of DeadMG's comment on your question
I was kind of finding support for it instead of actually making it
I put it plainly, if you still don't understand what's going on in my head than I am probably looking at it completely wrong
 
The problem I see is that RAII is juste a side effect of deterministic destructors.
It doesn't make your code "null safe".
Sure, you're probably going to use value types more with it, but correlation does not imply causality.
 
still, we are simply exploiting that correlation, not caring about its causality
and although it doesn't make it completely safe, we are not deprived of the ability to simply check for null pointers
 
1:25 AM
Personally, I use value types because I hate pointers. I find them a pain to use. Even the smart ones (albeit not as much).
 
instead of having crashes when Java decides to pass a null exception
*null reference
@EtiennedeMartel any response to that?
 
read back over it, I responded to you
 
1:54 AM
Anyone have any ideas on this? I have a list of strings that are guesses at voice input and I'm wanting to see which command would fit best with the list, but I'm not entirely sure the best approach for it.
 
2:27 AM
prefix trie?
I am so overtired
do not listen to me
 
0
Q: Make A MessageBox Close on KeyPress?

IntermediateHackerHow do I create a simple MB_OK|MB_ICONINFORMATION MessageBox in the Windows API and make it close on a key press such as 'Z'?

 
@Nexion
Prefix tries are used for spellcheckers, I imagien that might be helpful?
 
I wonder if you can reply to yourself...
someone click "reply to this message" on my previous message and give me the code to it.
 
ummm
you use @ to reply
@IntermediateHacker wazzup
see
I clicked reply to it
oh its :3404766
 
@OrgnlDave really? I didn't know that! And you press enter to send a message right?
 
2:30 AM
forgive me I'm so tired
 
@IntermediateHacker hello, myself.
lol, it worked!
my message is a reply to my own message.
@OrgnlDave thanks
 
@IntermediateHacker want to help me back? my rep is 666 and I need to change it (up so that I don't face 666 again)
I have decent answers you can upvote if you feel like it
This is a mess but is good
1
A: Dynamically Allocated Array of Pointers in Struct

OrgnlDaveEDIT: I've added an ideone link to the end that implements all the concepts for you. Sorry for the terseness of this answer, I am hoping it will show you how to do it properly. Test* first = (Test *)malloc(sizeof(Test)); // malloc(sizeof(Test)) allocates enough memory to hold a Test struct Tes...

this is much shorter but good
3
A: assign a char array to a literal string - c++

OrgnlDaveIf you'd like, you can declare: char array[] = "hi!"; Creates an array and 'initializes' it to 4 bytes long, "hi!" char const *array2 = "hey!"; Creates a pointer to read-only memory, a string literal array2 = array; You can now use the array2 pointer to access array one. This is called p...

@IntermediateHacker ping
sigh
 
2:51 AM
@OrgnlDave okay.
but serial upvotes are cancelled by the system sometimes
@OrgnlDave there, now it's 700.
 
3:19 AM
On Earth Day, let's take a moment to remember how awesome the Earth is for giving us all this coal. And big holes to bury garbage in.
 
Oooouuuuuh.
 
3:38 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Did you use the code verbatim or reimplement it?
 
Reimplement, but it's pretty similar.
 
No need for a copyright notice then.
 
Ok. Btw, I think I've found a bug in yours :)
 
Btw how does your is_named_parameter work? Types defined by the macro inherit from, but are not specialization from named_parameter.
 
I can't remember exactly where. There's a place where you pass deleter with the intention of it being the name tag, but since it's been shadowed by a parameter name, it's actually passing the parameter.
 
3:42 AM
Looking for that.
 
Hi everyone.. I have a problem in reading an .ini file using GETPRIVATEPROFILEINT in windows 7
can someone help me?
 
@LucDanton Hmm.
It passes all tests...
 
Oh ya, pretty easy to find.
@RMartinhoFernandes Your macro to make a name isn't the same as me so I'm not sure of all that's going on.
 
Ah, wait, the parameter name is a specialization.
There's X_name which is the name tag, and there's named_parameter<Name, T>, which is the result of X = value.
 
Okay then.
As for the scaling situation have you considered using something similar to that macro that writes a named overload?
Doesn't work when arities overlap right?
 
3:46 AM
Doesn't it end up requiring all N arguments?
 
Oh ya, two parameters could mean passing a deleter or a cloner.
 
Yeah, I can't just go with the count like you did.
And I need a bunch of combinations. Currently 11, but there are 4 extra I'd like to have.
Which I'd appreciate some feedback for syntax.
So far I can do make_value<derived>(forward_as_tuple(args...), cloner = c), for example.
 
I find it funny that you settled on EnableIf<Foo> = _. It's one of the first thing I contemplated myself.
 
But I'd like to be able to do the same, i.e., create a derived, but make the result a value_ptr<base>.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That's fine. I like pairwise_construction-style construction.
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't know, I'd rely on the implicit conversion.
 
3:51 AM
But that gives up on deduction of cloner and deleter types.
 
Is that problematic for function returns? E.g. value_ptr<base> foo() { auto p = make_value<derived>(/*...*/); return p; } is the last part construction from an rvalue or lvalue?
 
Oh, nevermind, the cases I need that is when storing it somewhere that isn't a local variable.
 
@lakshmikant Did you ask on the main site?
 
GManNickG..yes..But with no solutions
 
@LucDanton Should be an rvalue (I'll have to confirm if that's how it's currently working).
 
3:54 AM
So it's not just an exception for special members, a local variable is always considered as an rvalue first when used so then?
 
@lakshmikant: Did you ever get it to stop returning error code 2?
 
Hmm, now you got me doubting.
I remember the rule involving something like "when the criteria for copy elision is met", which would imply it only applies to the special ctors.
 
> When the criteria for elision of a copy operation are met or would be met save for the fact that the source object is a function parameter, and the object to be copied is designated by an lvalue, overload resolution to select the constructor for the copy is first performed as if the object were designated by an rvalue.
 
@GManNickG yes..I got the error code 2 using GetLastError()
 
3:57 AM
And looking at the preceding paragraph on elision I'm afraid that elision only applies for special (i.e. copy/move) members :(
 
Why did I think 20120401 was more recent than 20120422?
 
hey tons of thanks for getting me off 666
It's not an evil number or anything, just, I don't know, gross
 
@OrgnlDave Then there's 6,666 and 66,666.
@lakshmikant: Is "filename.ini" the actual name?
 
and 666,666 if you're Jon Skeet
 
@LucDanton That's a nasty gotcha.
 
4:04 AM
I think I brought up that example code with auto p = make_value... rather than return make_value... particularly because I did face that situation with make_unique.
And I think the situation was also a derived-to-base conversion.
 
Arrgh, 20120422 has the lambda bug fixed, but it ICEs.
Time to play binary search on GCC snapshots...
 
ICEs?
 
Internal Compiler Error
 
So EnableIf<foo> = _ it is then? Time for some sed magic.
 
It's still not ideal.
If you're on another namespace, it needs qualification.
And you can't put it on the global namespace. Not that I'd do it, but it's forbidden anyway.
 
4:10 AM
You can pick another evil and go with enum struct enabled { _ }; with auto constexpr _ = annex::enabled::_; in the global namespace.
Oh right, forbidden.
Go with __!
 
Yes.
 
Just checkin'.
 
Even if it were allowed more underscores make it look like we're in an esoteric(er) language.
"My code exhibits a bug because I passed _ instead of __, how silly of me" no thanks.
 
I'll live with sticking using wheels::_; on other namespaces.
 
4:13 AM
0 is tempting tbh :(
 
Yeah, it has been tempting me, but we already went over why that one is not cool.
 
@GManNickG NO... the filename is different...
 
@lakshmikant Make a minimal program that does nothing but load an INI from the current directory.
 
@G
@GManNickG yes.. I did that.. but the same problem..
 
Hey guys, whats an "association bonus"?
also, about the namespace stuff, I'm not following along, but don't forget the wonderful new anonymous namespaces!
 
4:19 AM
@lakshmikant Name it "test.ini", load it with the string "./test.ini" in the application, then manually run it from Explorer to ensure the file and program are located in the same directory.
 
Argh, screw GCC, let's check clang first.
 
@GManNickG ..I am trying it now
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I have a question. Is this really worth the effort? Are you actually using the kind of lambda's you've been trying to force GCC to use?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh, I remember something that bugged me: why do you test for T* (T::*)() const = &T::clone?
 
oh, I see, association bonus = I signed up for another stackexchange site
 
4:21 AM
@OrgnlDave Er, that warning shows up on any lambda with a deduced void type. That's not at all uncommon.
@LucDanton Where?
 
is_clonable perhaps.
 
Oh. Damn, I should have written a comment.
 
And what's with your style of comments? Making docs?
 
@GManNickG ..my stupidity.. now it works..
thanks a lot
:)
 
@LucDanton I was thinking of setting up some doxygen thing. Not that I'd done anything yet, but having the comments ready doesn't hurt.
 
4:24 AM
I was giving the full path before.
 
@lakshmikant Excellent. :) Accept the answer you have on your question, and leave a comment explaining how it helped you find the error.
 
Apparently I'm reviewing bits of your code but I can't help but comment on that: Bool<true, decltype(invoke_detail::invoke(std::declval<T>()...))>
 
@LucDanton Honestly, I can't remember. I have a vague idea there was a reason, but it's escaping me. Because of object members? Not a good reason.
@LucDanton What about it?
 
Well your Bool alias seems to do more stuff than mine. And than indicates the name.
 
Ah, it's dependent_bool_type.
 
4:27 AM
That makes sense.
 
It comes in handy for SFINAE.
 
@GManNickG..sure...
 
I used to do typename = decltype(/* blah */) but since that's a default type parameter maybe I should change that.
And DependOn<Bool<true>, decltype(/* blah */)> is a bit verbose. And cryptic.
How about template<typename... T> using True = DependOn<Bool<true>, T...>;?
EnableIf<True<decltype(foo)>> = _
Perhaps Valid is more fluent.
 
I like Valid.
 
I like your current style for template parameters btw. Except for that template < horror.
 
4:32 AM
What horror?
Oh, the space.
:P
 
template <
That's how it feels to me. Disconnected.
 
Speaking of ugly, what do you think of this one: bitbucket.org/martinhofernandes/wheels/src/ad4d2f32c2d9/include/…
// Macro for abusing ranged-for
 
optional<T> maybe_foo = /* blah */; WITH(foo: maybe_foo) foo.bar();
Meh.
How do you read a range-for anyway? I read for(foo: maybe_foo) as 'for foo in maybe_foo'.
 
Yeah, me too.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes what is the point of that macro?
 
4:36 AM
WITH was the Cat's idea. The original idea was more like WITH(maybe_foo AS foo), but that's taking it way too far for my taste.
 
wat
 
@OrgnlDave Not much really. It's just an attempt to legitimize some idioms.
I'm not really sure if making a macro to replace a language construct can legitimize anything, but well...
 
I don't even recall where else I'm (allegedly) abusing range-for. I'm really completely okay with optional<T> being a container of 0 or 1 T.
 
locker_box is a container of one too!
 
You know, I only have one place left in my code where I use typename = decltype(.... Changing that to Valid breaks my code. I don't know what to make of it.
 
4:39 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes I use (in one program) a global + operator to do an almost-implicit cast from a char to an unsigned char. abusing the language is simply part of the fun of it. stackoverflow.com/questions/8597222/…
 
@LucDanton lol.
@OrgnlDave That doesn't compile for me.
I remember Stepanov saying he would really like to be able to overload operators for int, so that he could overload operator* and make them iterators.
 
Since the situation where that happens has a lot and a lot of overloads I'm assuming changing the arity of the template makes a call or two ambiguous. Somehow.
 
Hmm. DisableIf<Valid<decltype(bar)>>...
 
Ouch, my head.
Honestly I've really taken out typename = because explicitly using traits make it clear what is being tested. I think that Valid stuff goes against that though.
 
Yeah. There's a reason one has to resort to the old test overload thingies.
 
4:52 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Does that do what I think it does? If the expression is valid, then the overload is removed?
 
The overload is always removed.
 
Heh.
 
If the expression is valid it is removed via DisableIf. If the expression is not valid it is removed by regular SFINAE.
 
I wasn't wrong!
 
Which is why I'm not really going to use that.
 
4:56 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes this is an example of roughly how I ended up hacking it: ideone.com/uw1jX however it was much more intuitive than that looks. it just demonstrates the principle
 
@RMartinhoFernandes DisableIf<Valid<...>> or Valid altogether?
 
Valid on *ableIf conditions. I don't want to get bitten.
 
That does make Valid pretty much useless then, doesn't it?
 
It reads better than Bool<true, decltype(...)> which I've been using in safe places. I think.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I just updated it to show how it can be a little more useful, even.
now that I'm done thanking everyone and making the C++ standards cry, I'm out for the night, c'yall
 
5:00 AM
Bye.
Btw, I'm a bit confused with allocators. If I copy an allocator can I deallocate with the copy something that was allocated with the original?
 
Don't ask me, I find allocators confusing.
To paraphrase Rick James, allocators are a hell of a drug.
 
5:40 AM
Oh, clang 3.1 is frozen for release.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It depends. In C++03, it basically says that yes, all copies of an allocator are essentially identical (or at least, that the implementation is free to treat any you pass to a standard container that way). I'd have to check to be sure, but I don't believe that's true any longer in C++11.
 
I shall post a question.
 
6:30 AM
0
A: constexpr, static_assert, and inlining

Cheers and hth. - AlfExplicit is good, implicit is bad, in general. The programmer can always try a static_assert. If the condition can not be evaluated at compile time, then that fails, and the programmer needs to change to assert. You can make it easier to do that by providing a common form so that the change re...

^ I posted an answer
 
6:41 AM
0
Q: Make A MessageBox Close on KeyPress?

IntermediateHackerHow do I create a simple MB_OK|MB_ICONINFORMATION MessageBox in the Windows API and make it close on a key press such as 'Z'?

@CheersandhthAlf please post another ^ here
 
u can always use a hook
 
hi room
is there a better way to go with Cpp SQL access?
then ODBC
 
0
A: Make A MessageBox Close on KeyPress?

Cheers and hth. - AlfUse a hook. blah blah SO minimum length for answer argh

^ The SO rules are sometimes annoying.
 
lol, really?
<!-- if you really want it, put an HTML comment in the source -->
 
any suggestions for ODBC?/
 
6:49 AM
lol
 
7:02 AM
Hello there.
5
Q: C++11 atomics and intrusive shared pointer reference count

wilxI am writing intrusive shared pointer and I am using C++11 <atomic> facilities for reference counter. Here are the relevant fragments of my code: //... mutable std::atomic<unsigned> count; //... void SharedObject::addReference() const { std::atomic_fetch_add_explicit (&coun...

Please see my comment to the accepted answer. What do you guys think about it?
@user1220811: there are at least two ODBC packages for *nix, IIRC.
@user1220811: iODBC and unixODBC.
 
7:35 AM
@IntermediateHacker (@CheersandhthAlf) stackoverflow.com/revisions/…
 

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