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8:03 PM
But how do I format it prettily?
 
@Pubby for which profiler?
 
@MooingDuck I'm using oprofile right now
 
Vim or Emacs for Linux C++ programming?
 
Why?
 
8:11 PM
Because emacs sucks.
 
Unless you have rubber fingers.
 
Does vim suck?
 
I'm 41 years old. My fingers are definitly not rubber-y. :)
 
8:12 PM
See, Emacs forces you to break your fingers with all those combined shortcuts.
 
I have read that Vim is very powerful and configurable. Is it powerful with features useful to a C++ programmer? Or is it more like notepad from a C++ programmer's perspective?
 
Define "features".
If you're looking for an IDE, you might be better off with an actual IDE.
I use vim for everything and it's just fine.
 
I don't think I want an IDE in Linux.
And I don't necesarrily want to transmorgify Vim/Emacs to the point where it is essentially an IDE. I just want the editor to help me do my job.
 
For me the most important thing is syntax highlighting, and you'll find vim highlighting patterns for everything.
 
And I don't think I know enough yet about how to program under Linux to know what I dont know.
 
8:16 PM
@Pubby It's called Excel?
 
@Mysticial I found a comment where Johannes Gerer said he was using Excel but switched to GNUPlot.
Guess I'll try that
 
vim has also neat features you won't find in a typical text editor/IDE.
Like undo tree.
 
@CatPlusPlus what's that?
 
Time travel!
 
vim stores all of the versions of the file.
If you undo, then make an edit, you don't lose redo ability.
 
8:18 PM
@MooingDuck "Undo, undo, undo, do something" doesn't lose the "redos"
 
You just go to a different branch on the undo tree.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes nice
 
Simple ad-hoc VCS.
 
How does infinite undo work? What information does it store?
 
8:19 PM
@JohnDibling I use Emacs mostly, but I've also re-bound the caps-lock key to control, which makes for a lot less contortion
 
Something like diffs?
 
Undo tree sounds interesting, but I wonder if I would ever need it.
 
Who needs Caps Lock anyway?
@CollinHockey I use vim, so Caps Lock is Escape.
 
i don't miss it
 
Oh I ic...

These graphs were made by hand using Excel and the data produced from my the code I posted here (pastebin.com/ivzkuTzG). But after some time I switched to gnuplot, because it can be used in more automatic fashion. – Johannes Gerer Dec 20 '11 at 19:49
 
8:20 PM
@Collin: Do you program C++/similar?
 
Motions and block editing are neat, too. Many editors have block editing, but it's mostly primitive insert/delete.
 
I only recently discovered VS's block editing, it's pretty cool.. are there better?
@JohnDibling Mostly C (embedded) and C++ in emacs - If i'm doing Java or .NET I just use the IDE
 
@Cat: That reminds me of something I do a lot in VC's IDE. Hold down the ALT key, then drag the mouse over a block of text. That block is selected. Now I can tab or alt-tab, and the entire block will tab out or in. Can vim do this?
 
@CatPlusPlus Most editors are primitive.
 
@JohnDibling Better.
 
8:22 PM
Alt+Tab? You mean Shift-Tab?
 
@JohnDibling why hold down the alt key? I do that all the time, but never use the alt key
 
When you're on first line, you type N>> or N<< and it indents/dedents N next lines.
 
@Collin: Aside from the whole rubber finger debate, how do you like emacs for C++ programming?
@RMartinhoFernandes: Yes, I believe I did mean that.
 
I prefer >iB: "indent inner block"
 
I can never count well enough to take advantage of the number commands
 
8:23 PM
@Mooing: It selects just what you dragged the mouse over, instead of whole lines. Try it.
 
@Pubby just learned gnu plot the other day. the tuts are a bit dense, but nothing too hard to pierce. It was a breeze. Here is the graph I distilled from 2793 emails in 3 lines of shell and 4 lines of GNUPlot:
 
There's also == to restore usually-correct indentation.
 
@JohnDibling Yeah. It helps that I don't have to do much looking up of standard lib function names in C++ anymore, otherwise it would be much nicer to use the IDE.
 
 
The point is, you can use vim without ever touching the mouse.
 
8:24 PM
E.g with the GNUplot
 
@sehe What's that?
 
set xdata time
set timefmt '%y%m%d'
set format x '%b/%y'
plot "./report.txt" using 1:2 t 'Used%' with lines
 
@sehe Graphs!
 
@JohnDibling Auto indentation is nice, and I had less of a mental jump without learning about editing modes like vim has
We have folks on our team that use Vim too, just try them both out
 
Oh and yeah... Graphs get you upvotes... If it wasn't obvious enough already...
 
8:25 PM
@CatPlusPlus: I must admit, I'm quite the mouser.
 
Well, you can if you want.
 
I just reach for it, ya know?
 
@CatPlusPlus can you use a mouse if you want to?
 
@JohnDibling I rarely use the mouse, but one of our guys uses it all the time in emacs to great effect really
 
I'm gonna go post sehe's graph on some questions just to get upvotes
 
8:25 PM
@Mysticial Any sort of pictures, really.
 
@MooingDuck Yes.
 
And input data lines like
120208 93%
100217 77%
090309 50%
090107 22%
120306 94%
120305 94%
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I think you've got the best example of that. :)
 
@JohnDibling I did, too, and switched gradually to using keyboard-only motions.
It's usually faster.
 
:help mouse-using or help gui-mouse
 
8:26 PM
And after a while you don't even think about it.
 
@MooingDuck Sure. I use the mouse in vim over ssh, screen remotely on AIX boxes :)
 
I suppose it's part of the transition.
 
But I prefer not to.
@Pubby Help yourself :)
 
I even got rid of the arrow keys.
Or rather moved them.
 
@JohnDibling I strongly concur that Vim is pretty good. On any platform. With most any language.
 
8:28 PM
@sehe Inside your IDE!
 
@CatPlusPlus Oh, I still use them. But I also occasionally stoop at my desk for 10 minutes or sit on my chair reversed. I like variation
@RMartinhoFernandes That too.
 
elisp still blows my mind
 
so what browser does Ubuntu come with as default?
 
@DeadMG FF 10+
 
@sehe Well, I use uhjk, so it's really arrows but shifted a bit.
 
Well, thanks all. I'm going to do some coding in Vim, then do some coding in Emacs, and then decide.
 
1
Q: How to rewrite NEW and DELETE for memory management using SDL, OpenGL together?

darkgazeI´m using SDL and OpenGL together. I would like to create my own memory manager, just to rewrite the NEW and DELETE commands to add my memory reservation counter and memory reserved counter to keep more information about what´s going on with my leaks. But as soon as i overwrite New, i get many ...

 
@CatPlusPlus Oh noes. Customized vim :) If it suits you...
 
@RMartinhoFernandes "Hey guys, I got this plan. You see, lets make all those stuffy gnu guys want to use VS by giving them keybindings!"
 
@CollinHockey They saw how ViEmu and even JaredPar (VsVim) succeeded in doing that. I think JaredPar is something of F# celebirty (IIRC)? He'll be known in the Microsoft circles
 
8:31 PM
@JohnDibling That's really the only way to do it, I'm pretty sure there are no good arguments why one is better than the other objectively
 
vim doesn't break your fingers.
 
emacs didn't until they moved the ctrl key to a stupid place, and you can fix that
 
@CatPlusPlus I think Vim is better in the 'let me edit' department. Emacs seems less clumsy in the 'do the integration' department. Ring true to anyone?
 
What integration?
 
Vim is my goto for editing configuration files and things, but for just typing out code, I prefer emacs
 
8:34 PM
@CatPlusPlus Scriptability, modes, shell interaction. E.g. live data pipes are troublesome in Vim, Vim script strikes me as a bit clunky.
 
Dunno, never needed anything like this.
 
I must admit, I've never given Emacs enough attention to see whether it rocks. I guess, I don't need to since I know Vim inside out
 
@CollinHockey To be honest, that emacs "emulation" is just new keybindings. The vim emulation plugins that exist do a lot more (i.e. true emulation).
 
tomorrow I'm going to go get tested by Mensa to see how super-smart I am
 
8:35 PM
@DeadMG lol
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Especially ViEmu. I'm continually amazed by the feature completeness of that
 
Wow. Never did an official iq test.
 
who wants to bet that I'll sleep in by accident and miss it?
 
@JohannesSchaublitb: Emacs or Vim?
 
8:35 PM
@JohannesSchaublitb Riddles
 
@DeadMG That would be smart.
 
Nope!
no riddles for you
 
lol
 
@JohannesSchaublitb Good. For my ego.
 
I never really grasped the point of Mensa.
 
8:36 PM
I thought Mensa is for food
 
it's to put on my CV
 
@CatPlusPlus Who is Mensa, and wouldn't she object to being grasped by strangers?
 
"Hey dude, I have 140 IQ, hire me."
 
8:36 PM
@JohannesSchaublitb +1
 
"Oh, we're so clever, let's sit in a circle and be clever together."
 
haha that even rhymes
 
@CatPlusPlus Then I'd meet someone as clever as I am :P
 
@CatPlusPlus That's basically it.
 
DeadMensaGuy
 
8:37 PM
I guess I don't like anything that involves meeting random people.
 
@DeadMG And that would send you into ten years of depression. Oh, wait
 
lol
only ten? I'd pay good money for that
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Thanks, some of those actually look useful.
 
Everyone has an IQ of 140, don't they? Mensa is just a circle jerk. :)
 
8:38 PM
lol
 
Most people here are around 140 I guess.
 
circle jerks are fun, but most of the time the 140 IQ guys are the ugly ones
 
@JohnDibling Dunno. Just tossed that number out. I have no idea how much is "high IQ".
 
I have no idea, and don't really care about my IQ.
 
I suppose 140 is a lot.
 
8:38 PM
100 is always the average person.
 
Maybe it isn't.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes theoretically, 100 is average, with stddev of 15
so 145 is 99th percentile? ish?
 
i think albert einstein was like 160
 
I think it's supposed to be mean = 100, standard deviation 15
 
It's not supposed to be that, it's defined to be that.
 
8:39 PM
i hear that ludwig wittgenstein was one of the most clever guy
 
So basically, your IQ is dependent on how dumb the rest of the world is.
 
Well, and how much is 140 IQ in SI units?
 
afk
 
@RMartinhoFernandes 2.5 derps.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes according to stattrek.com/online-calculator/normal.aspx, 99.617% (IQ is a ratio, it's unitless)
 
8:41 PM
i guess most programmers have above 100
 
@JohannesSchaublitb Are you sure?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes He is sure about the fact that he is guessing.
 
Silly onebox doesn't support SVG?
 
8:42 PM
@CatPlusPlus Nice file.
 
correct lol
 
Who cares about IQ.
 
Who is a Chinese.
 
@CatPlusPlus It does. But you didn't link to an SVG.
 
8:44 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Pfft.
 
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 
The graph seems to represent noisiness of people.
 
ok. The little one wet the bed. I changed the sheets - one more laundry tomorrow
 
@StackedCrooked Me. Am I supposed to admit that?
 
@StackedCrooked I'm pretty sure that joke doesn't fly outside the Dutch speaking region
 
8:46 PM
If Einsteins IQ was 160 (est by several groups), that's ~99.997%, meaning there are approx 68405 people currently alive smarter than Einstein
 
@Mysticial It was a followup to @CatPlusPlus's remark that "Who cares about IQ.". Silly joke.
 
1
Q: Define multiple methods with parameters from variadic templates

MTsoulI want to define a base template class in a way so that it takes variadic template arguments and defines a virtual method for each argument, where the parameter is the argument type. E.g. Base<int, bool, string> should give me 3 virtual methods: Foo(int), Foo(bool), and Foo(string). I tri...

You guys agree with the dupe?
 
@sehe Probably.
 
@MooingDuck Average was probably bit different then, though.
 
@MooingDuck perhaps we shall make a youtube video searching for those people?
they will give us alien!
 
8:47 PM
@MooingDuck So, he was dumb as a brick?
 
160 IQ years ago isn't the same as 160 IQ now.
 
"Hallo, met Wie?"
-- "Ha, Wie! Met Lo"
 
Also it's based on age groups, I think.
Anyway, complicated and useless.
 
i wonder why albert einstein and other smart ppl aren't cloned
we still have their DNA
 
Because cloning => evil.
 
8:48 PM
We ran out of smart.
 
we could get fancy smart scientists
 
WITH THREE ARMS!
 
Many intelligent people fail to realize their potential.
 
Who cares about potential? Other than electric engineers, I mean.
3
 
8:48 PM
And many non-intelligent people fail to recognise their stupidity.
 
@JohannesSchaublitb For the same reaons we have a non-proliferation agreement on other things powerful ?
 
@sehe :D
 
There's a name for that.
Which I can't remember.
 
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which the unskilled suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes. Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. As Kruger and Dunning conclude, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others" (p. 1...
This?
 
The Robot does it again.
 
8:50 PM
that's the "I'm a C++ Pro"-effect
 
@StackedCrooked :C++, fixed that for you
 
Why the frak do people flag Feeds?
 
Someone flagged a feeds post in the php room :)
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Spend some time with us, and we'll prove you don't know C++. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
@sehe Trying to interpret that as a freaky smiley.
 
8:51 PM
@StackedCrooked meant to add FTFY. Oh, I did. So... what's the problem ?
 
OMG... I can't believe I'm actually installing Netbeans to try to answer this one:
8
Q: Why does reversing a loop makes it slower?

MotaI have the following code that does a circular shift of the bits in the array: private static void method1(byte[] bytes) { byte previousByte = bytes[0]; bytes[0] = (byte) (((bytes[0] & 0xff) >> 1) | ((bytes[bytes.length - 1] & 0xff) << 7)); for (int i = 1; i < ...

 
i will flag another random post now
 
@StackedCrooked What did I do?
I wonder if Feeds can be suspended.
 
@sehe There's no problem.
 
We should try that once.
 
8:52 PM
lol
 
@RMartinhoFernandes The thing you always do. Being all-knowing.
 
Yeah, it reminds me of some divine entities.
 
Omniscience (; omniscient point-of-view in writing) is the capacity to know everything infinitely, or at least everything that can be known about a character including thoughts, feelings, life and the universe, etc. In Latin, omnis means "all" and sciens means "knowing". Definitions There is a distinction between: * inherent omniscience - the ability to know anything that one chooses to know and can be known. * total omniscience - actually knowing everything that can be known. Some modern theologians argue that God's omniscience is inherent rather than total, and that God chooses to ...
^^ Like that, @StackedCrooked?
 
Maybe you lot should worship me.
 
@sehe Yep, something like that.
 
8:53 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes You being omniscient, you should know that is already the case
 
Oil for the robot god!
2
 
@sehe I know the puppy doesn't.
 
How can you be omniscient but not know it?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm now imagining you saying that as some super villain sitting on his throne and having the power to destroy the world on a whim.
 
@Pubby I know the answer to that, but your puny meat mind can't handle it.
 
8:55 PM
If you're omniscient and you know it, clap your hands (clap clap),
If you're omniscient and you know it, clap your hands (clap clap),
If you're omniscient and you know it, ♫
If you're omniscient and you know it, ♫
If you're omniscient and you know it, clap your hands (clap clap)
 
what if you're omniscient and you don't know it?
 
Aargh. Paradox!
 
@DeadMG What if you're slow, and you don't know it?
 
@DeadMG You're a liar.
 
8:56 PM
What if you have no hands? :(
 
@Pubby lol
 
@Pubby hahaha
 
What if you aren't and you don't know it?
 
@Pubby You get sexually frustrated in puberty. And thereafter, I fear
 
What if you aren't and you think you don't know it?
 
8:57 PM
That's even worse.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh then you're just conflicted. Like everyone else
 
Reminds me of a story my dad told me. He was at a casino watching a band perform. They were doing the hand-jive and invited someone from the audience up to do it with them. Of course the lady they chose happened to have no hands.
 
That's a really deep philosophical discussion we're having.
 
What happens when you punch an existentialist in the face?
 
If you have no hands and you know it, flap your ears.
 
8:59 PM
@Pubby What's a hand-jive? Something that requires hands?
 
you know
 
Yes, I do.
 
it occurs to me that being a member of Mensa would be an awesome response to anyone accusing me of being an idiot
 

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