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4:00 PM
@sehe Apparently shooting you, killed chat!
 
Woot
 
Ell
has anyone used gtk before?
I am unsure of when I need to call gtk_widget_destroy () and when I don't
 
4:12 PM
PHP has compiler assisted copy & paste?!! WTF
 
@TonyTheLion Uh.. preprocessor?
 
preprocessor is not the same as the compiler
 
user142019
PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor
 
user142019
I made an Erlang wallpaper.
 
yes I know what PHP stands for
 
4:16 PM
lol, "let's force single inheritance" years later "ok, let's work around single inheritance"
 
lol
"an int and a string are perfectly interchangable" Erm. What.
 
Xeo
Fuck it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Those who don't study history are forced to repeat it. They see that Smalltalk 80 only had single inheritance, so that's what they use. Unfortunately, the don't seem to notice that by 1990, most Smalltalk implementations had kludges to work around the shortcomings of single inheritance -- so these latter-day ignoramuses invent kludges that are worse still.
 
user142019
@TonyTheLion "42" == 42 && "0x42" == 0x42 && "042" != 042. Erm. That.
 
Xeo
Thanks to me having to babysit my brother, I lost opportunity to answer 3 C++11 questions. :(
 
4:22 PM
lol
 
@Xeo lol
@JerryCoffin hehe, "latter-day ignoramuses"
 
@Xeo oh gawd. That's terrible.
 
@Xeo Thanks to me having to babysit my kids, I lost opportunity to answer about 300...
 
Xeo
And from one of them, Kerrek got some nice upvotes. Now it's practically inevitable that he'll get the 4th C++11 gold badge.
 
@Zoidberg'-- that's just wrong. Should not be implicit
 
user142019
4:23 PM
@TonyTheLion the terriblest is that it works for decimal and hexadecimal, but not for octal.
 
user142019
It is inconsistent.
 
oh gawd.
 
user142019
Also, "111111111111111111111111111111112" == "111111111111111111111111111111111" due to truncation when too long to fit in an integer.
 
god, this PHP talk is awful. How can you be so accepting of so much horror??!
 
user142019
I am not accepting it.
 
user142019
4:24 PM
It’s terrible.
 
@Zoidberg'-- it doesn't handle the prepended 0s properly?
 
@TonyTheLion How can who be accepting of it? You are the one watching it.
 
Like, it's almost as this PHP author finds it a normal thing for people to write shitty crap
 
user142019
@Collin that’s irrelevant.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes the inventor of PHP
 
4:25 PM
@Zoidberg'-- but those are strings :p
 
Xeo
@melak47 For PHP, they're not.
 
user142019
@Collin made it more clear.
 
I'm watching this PHP Conference 2012 keynote
 
@Xeo D:
 
Xeo
"Oh hey, it looks like a number! Let's convert!"
 
4:26 PM
@melak47 The first thing PHP does it try to convert it to numbers
 
@TonyTheLion Yes, Rasmus is terrible.
 
@TonyTheLion Well, look what he's written, and think for a moment about his ability to recognize whether something is so shitty its author should commit hari kari.
 
@Collin ok, ok, enough, I don't want to know any more about this :(
 
user142019
@Collin The strings are converted to integers for comparison, but 111111111111111111111111111111112 doesn’t fit in an integer, so it is truncated to something like 111111111111.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes He almost promotes bad code with his way of thinking
 
4:26 PM
> I'm not a real programmer. I throw together things until it works then I move on. The real programmers will say "Yeah it works but you're leaking memory everywhere. Perhaps we should fix that." I’ll just restart Apache every 10 requests.
@TonyTheLion Yes, he does. See above quote.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Woah.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes He didn't really say that, did he? Please tell me he didn't...
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes It’s a magic quote.
 
@Praetorian, I don't know if you remember this, but I realized from the new syntax I saw last night that there's no need. const std::vector<int> & = {} works. No need for another = default use I guess :)
 
@Xeo after seeing this talk, I can imagine he would say something like that
 
4:27 PM
@Xeo Yes, he did. I think of him as a blight upon our field.
 
user142019
php > print("111111111111111111111111111111112" == "111111111111111111111111111111111");
1
php > print("211111111111111111111111111111112" == "111111111111111111111111111111111");
php >
 
For all the folks getting excited about my quotes. Here is another - Yes, I am a terrible coder, but I am probably still better than you :)
 
user142019
epic fail
 
user142019
@TonyTheLion Also note the performance implication for checking if the strings are numeric.
 
Xeo
4:29 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes What. The. Fuck.
 
user142019
Morons Rasmus gonna be morons.
 
Xeo
> Breaking the Web
 
@Zoidberg'-- Which version are you testing? I'd guess that it's not 5.4
 
Wondering if I should flag the PHP stuff as offensive..
 
user142019
daknok% php -v                                                                ~
PHP 5.3.15 with Suhosin-Patch (cli) (built: Aug 24 2012 17:45:44)
Copyright (c) 1997-2012 The PHP Group
Zend Engine v2.3.0, Copyright (c) 1998-2012 Zend Technologies
 
user142019
4:31 PM
@NikiC ^
 
@Zoidberg'-- 3v4l.org/ETMbD
 
@Zoidberg'-- lol, you have PHP installed. hahahaha
 
user142019
@NikiC that wobsite xD
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes I need it for fucking school. :<
 
4:33 PM
@Zoidberg'-- We changed the behavior in PHP 5.4.4 to not compare strings with overflowing floats that way ;)
 
user142019
@NikiC we? GTFO.
 
user142019
D:<
 
@Zoidberg'-- Yes, he works on PHP core.
 
.@rasmus what were you smoking when you designed PHP?
 
user142019
@NikiC please fix everything.
 
user142019
4:35 PM
 
wtf failmeme
 
user142019
@Nils trollololoolol
 
So I've heard endlessly which language (PHP) is the one not to use. Which one should you use?
 
4:35 PM
@chris Python or Ruby
 
user142019
@chris the one that does the job well.
 
depends on your inclination
 
@Zoidberg'-- lol
 
and the task at hand
 
Why not Zoidberg?
 
user142019
4:36 PM
I use Ruby or Python for web applications.
 
@Zoidberg'-- Sorry, not interested. I don't think that it can be fixed in any way you would like ;)
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Watching a PHP keynote talk, now brainbleach is in order. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
That's like asking Joseph Smith what he was smoking when he was dictating the book of Mormon.
 
@Zoidberg Are you going to use the slogan "why not Zoidlang?"?
 
user142019
I find Ruby the best to work with when it comes to web applications.
 
user142019
4:36 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes yup.
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: No, we did not spend time watching a PHP talk. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
*compiler compiles successfully*
Hooray I'm useful! I'm having a wonderful time!
 
Oh, and if I may ask: @TonyTheLion Why the fuck are you watching a PHP talk? :(
 
@NikiC Yeah. Can you imagine how bored and desperate he must be?
 
4:38 PM
@NikiC ask @sehe. He suggested it, and I thought it would be good giggles. Now I want to cry :P
 
fixed
 
Ell
hmm. why does gtk use strings for signals? o.O
 
user142019
Speaking of Zoidlang, time to work on the spec.
 
@TonyTheLion Do you have a link to that vid?
 
torture yourself
 
Ell
4:39 PM
can I compare a string literal with another string literal with ==?
 
@Ell you can compare a std::string using operator==
 
user142019
@Ell yes, but it’s not guaranteed to work as expected.
 
@TonyTheLion He probably watched it already.
 
user142019
It will compare the pointers.
 
Ell
4:41 PM
so will "clicked" always == "clicked"?
 
user142019
"foo" == "foo" may be true or false depending on the implementation.
 
wait.
 
Ell
right okay
 
user142019
@Ell implementation-defined if identical string literals have the same address.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes nope, didn't watch it. Too long and probably nothing of interest.
 
user142019
4:41 PM
Use "foo"_s == "foo"_s.
 
Xeo
No need to construct the second string
 
No, nevermind.
 
Xeo
heh
 
Ell
_s? that turns it into std::string?
 
&("foobar"[3]) == "bar" in Hell++.
 
user142019
4:43 PM
@Ell If you use wheels, yes.
 
Xeo
It's the commonly accepted std::string operator ""_s
 
std::string operator ""_s(char const* str, std::size_t size) {
    return { str, size };
}
// IIRC
 
Xeo
aye
 
@TonyTheLion If we're going to link to PHP videos, I think we need to balance it with the Watman video.
 
lol, @Jerry loves that one.
 
Xeo
4:44 PM
I like it too.
 
Anyway, you guys suck. No one fedback on the docs I wrote.
 
Xeo
Which docs?
 
44 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
I wrote some docs today: https://bitbucket.org/martinhofernandes/ogonek/wiki/Cookbook
 
Xeo
I wasn't there 44mins ago. :)
 
If you don't read the transcript, you still suck.
:P
 
4:45 PM
Wasn't C++14 or C++17 going to include a std::string suffix?
 
@chris Yeah, I think a set of standard UDLs is one of the things on the table.
 
Xeo
Indeed.
 
Hopefully they'll make it work with all strings.
 
I want to see how much code will break when they use things like "abc"s.
 
Only things using nasty macros.
 
Xeo
4:47 PM
UDLs without a leading _ are reserved by the standard.
 
If you #define s you deserve your code to break.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes, Wouldn't there be a conflict if a library or something defined it as well?
 
@chris Such a library would not be legal anyway.
 
Xeo
29 secs ago, by Xeo
UDLs without a leading _ are reserved by the standard.
 
Breaking illegal code is not a problem.
 
4:48 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I do rather like it -- if I had the intestinal fortitude to spend more time putzing with PHP, I'd probably make a similar one for it.
 
Good, because it is a problem for Microsoft.
 
user142019
> Every program must have exactly one Main module and one main function. The Main module must be called “Main” and the main function must be called “main”.
 
Xeo
@chris Oh, how so?
 
They work around broken applications so much.
Ones that use undocumented functions etc.
 
@Xeo MS maintains backward compatibility with everything, broken or not.
 
Xeo
4:49 PM
:|
 
Or rely on something that isn't guaranteed, and have to trick it into thinking it's still like that.
But of course someone who upgrades the OS and has an application that does something bad afterwards will obviously blame the OS.
 
Ell
can I do new std::make_tuple<1, 2>?
 
I hope C++ doesn't go down that road, to be honest.
 
Xeo
No
 
@Ell Woah, what?
 
Xeo
4:50 PM
make_tuple isn't a type.
 
Ell
oh yeah. nevermind
 
Xeo
You can do new auto{std::make_tuple(1,2)} though, IIRC.
 
@chris When considering code breakage they consider: whether it is legal; whether it is a widespread extension or idiom or something; whether there's bound to be a lot of code doing it (say, my guesstimate for #define s is that it can be found in 0.000001% of all C++ code).
Oh, and obviously, whether the benefits of breaking that code are worth it.
I think replacing operator void*s with explicit operator bools throughout the standard library is a great example of that.
 
Xeo
As another example, narrowing conversions were banned from list-initialization, which quite big of a breaking change. They thought it was worth it, though, and it's not a silent breakage, but a compiler error.
Gaaah, Channel 9, y u use my Windows Live ID for logging in...
 
user142019
Woohoo I have one section of my Zoidlang specification complete!
 
user1174868
4:58 PM
Is it wrong to come here and pander for up votes to my answers?
 
Xeo
In 99% of the cases, yes.
 
user142019
Oct 24 at 19:54, by sbi
If you are new here, please take a quick look through the newbie hints. Thank you.
 
user142019
Whoop whoop whoop whoop whoop! dl.dropbox.com/u/92981617/Zoidlang/Zoidlang.pdf
 
user1174868
I just need an unspecified number of votes and I can ask questions again
 
user142019
@Jordan and for what reason can you not ask questions?
 
user1174868
5:00 PM
@Zoidberg'-- I asked a question that recieved a negative vote, it was my first and led me to being banned from asking questions
 
Ell
wooo my signal slot thing workss but it uses new & delete! sadface :(
 
@Zoidberg'-- IOW: Main module. Lorem Ipsum Dolor. :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes, But surely more code uses operator "" s(const char *, std::size_t)
Even though it should use _s
 
Ell
that documentary looks muy bueno
 
user142019
@DeadMG hehe :P
 
user1174868
5:05 PM
What a good answer, right guys? stackoverflow.com/questions/13149654/…
 
user142019
Aug 12 at 17:05, by DeadMG
thank you for dumping your link in Lounge<C++>, kindly receive your express downvote, courtesy of DeadMG Incorporated
 
user1174868
If I get negative votes I will probably just have to quit using this site, too hard to dig yourself out of a hole
 
Not really, downvotes aren't worth too much rep loss.
Don't worry, though. You can't possibly be as bad as I was. I once asked a question, which somehow only posted half of the question, and I didn't realize until morning.
Except it sort of looked like it was complete, so everyone was very confused.
 
user1174868
I can't ask questions and the question I asked was deleted so I have no idea how much - rep I got
 
user1174868
maybe a deleted question is an instant ban
 
5:12 PM
no
it's just designed to stop spammers... as soon as it's evident that you're not a spammer, and will try to ask better questions in the future, the question ban should be reversed.
 
user1174868
Well it has been 9 months
 
user1174868
It took me that long before I even found a question I could answer, but no one really looks at scheme answers
 
user142019
I am still not sure how I will do immutability in Zoidlang.
 
then pick up another language :P
 
@chris Really? Wow, people are really stupid.
 
Ell
5:21 PM
I'm stuck. Gtk uses strings for signals, but to me that seems needlessly runtime
 
user142019
instance Iterate[Map[k, v]]:
    def begin(map:Map[K, V]):
        return Pair[$K, &V](something)
 
@Zoidberg'-- Really, you put lorem ipsum in your spec?
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes For sections I have not yet written, yes.
 
Ell
I have used boost::signal<void()> onClicked; instead, but that means hooking them all up in a big if(sig_name == "clicked") { onClicked();}
 
Also, y u no hyperref?
 
Ell
5:22 PM
anyone have any ideas how I can avoid this? o.O
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes didn’t yet think of that.
 
@Ell std::unordered_map<std::string, boost::signal<void()>>
fucking hell, System Shock 2 is such a great game
 
Ell
oh yeah. I'm so stupid
but I'd still rather do MyThing.onClick.connect() over MyThing.signals["clicked"].connect()
 
@DeadMG You're playing that again?
 
no
I turned my music back on and it reminded me of it
@Ell Tough.
unless you want to do the giant if thing.
 
Ell
5:25 PM
well I think I might do the giant if thing. Which do you think is more aesthetically pleasing?
 
I'd go for the unordered_map every time.
way more extensible and maintainable
 
user142019
@T # immutable ref
&T # mutable ref
 
Punctuation.
 
Ell
`(T # immutable ref
)T #mutable ref`
 
zero punctuation
 
user142019
5:26 PM
@Ell ugh
 
user142019
Sigils! :D
 
you've got @T and &T and you're going "Ugh" at someone else? Holy hell.
 
Ell
@DeadMG as in easier to add more signals?
 
user142019
Pair[K const&, V&]
 
@Ell Yep.
and it's a lot easier to follow
and O(1)
 
Ell
5:28 PM
aww man, I really wanted Control.onClicked. hmmph :P
 
Xeo
Well
 
@Ell Well, if you really want that, you can have that.
struct my_special_signal { // blah blah
 
Xeo
Just add a member that forwards to signals["clicked"].
Or even better, just add a function.
 
boost::signal<blah>& onClicked = signals["clicked"];
 
Xeo
template<class F>
void onClicked(F f){ signals["clicked"].connect(f); }
 
Ell
5:30 PM
oh yeah
wooo thanks guys
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I thought you couldn't do that at first, but then I remembered that they're basically assigned in the ctors.
 
user142019
I added constness and volatileness sections again.
 
hmmmm
integer formatting parameters
base, and locale for decimal
anything else?
 
Ell
hmmmm. Is there ever a use for dynamically allocating a smart pointer?
 
Xeo
@DeadMG significant digits to display?
 
5:34 PM
@Xeo Kinda niche, don't you think?
 
user142019
@DeadMG whether or not to show + for positive numbers.
 
also, that'd be easy, since you could just truncate the string.
 
Ell
can I do a vector<string> literal?
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Or extend.
 
Ell
I remember seeing you can do {} with stuff in it, not sure if I can just iterate over that like usual?
 
Xeo
5:35 PM
0.00200, if someone wants that.
 
user142019
@Ell vector<string>{"foo", "bar", "baz"}
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes: ogonek docs look good. I would remove the implementation detail that any_text is a type-erased variant of basic_text, unless it is important to the api.
 
user1174868
starcraft is really boring now
 
user1174868
all the american tournaments are just koreans
 
hmm
@Jordan Because none of the Americans can keep up, and most of the Europeans can't afford to go there.
 
user1174868
5:36 PM
yeah but it is because starcraft is just more popular there
 
user142019
PEOPLE Y U ALWAYS FORGET AUSTRALIA
 
actually, it's probably more popular here
 
user1174868
there are only a couple hundred at most competitive starcraft players in the US, there are thousands in korea
 
@Zoidberg'-- Because it's not relevant.
 
user1174868
sure, but not competitively
 
user142019
5:37 PM
It’s funny how Australia is never in the news either.
 
right
it's true that the US has the grand total of about one or two, if that, good players
but the nationality of the players is really quite irrelevant.
 
user1174868
you are looking at it wrong
 
what matters is that they play the best games
 
user1174868
It is the players who seek to compete, who practice to compete
 
I don't give a fuck about them
 
user1174868
5:38 PM
I don't think so, it is boring when all the players are just Korean
 
I care about the ones who can compete.
and if that is only the Koreans, then that's only the Koreans.
 
user1174868
they don't speak english, they are hard to know as a person, little emotion
 
if the US wants to be more competitive, they should try harder, it's not magic.
 
can anyone help me to build and use the boost regex lib on my project? I mean, how to do it, how to import it, etc
 
user1174868
it is hard to be a fan of a korean
 
5:38 PM
why?
they play the game like a baus
 
user1174868
It isn't about trying harder, it is just simply about numbers
 
user1174868
koreans have thousands trying to be competitive starcraft players, the US has hundreds
 
@Jordan The US has plenty of players. They're just not very good because they don't try very hard.
 
user1174868
because they aren't trying to be the best in the world, for most it is just a hobby not a career, even many of the top US players are students and do starcraft in there off time
 
hence, they're not trying very hard
 
user142019
5:40 PM
If Asians are good at something they’re the best.
 
it would be boring as fuck if we watched a bunch of American players play, because it would be obvious that they sucked.
 
user1174868
@DeadMG Why? It is an american tournament :P
 
no
the SC2 scene is global.
 
user1174868
sure
 
user142019
Leveling in games: easy, normal, hard, Asian.
 
5:41 PM
the place where the tournament is located only affects how expensive it is to go there, and who can watch it at a convenient time for them.
 
user1174868
but it is boring when every single player is from one country
 
user1174868
lol asians arent some super race
 
dafuq is with you and countries
don't you just watch the game?
 
user1174868
I lived in Korea for a year and played brood war in some PC bangs, never got beat
 
countries are the most irrelevant shit ever
 
user1174868
5:41 PM
sure but they define who the people are I think
 
it's an e-sport played over the Internet
the point of watching it is to watch people play the game
 
user1174868
There are some cool and interesting Koreans like DRG but mostly we get squirtles and soos and polts
 
dude, Polt is awesome.
soo and squirtle are kinda meh
 
user1174868
but they have no emotion
 
who gives a fuck about that?
 
user1174868
5:42 PM
I love watching Idra because you know how insane he is
 
user1174868
it makes it interesting
 
it's not a soap
 
user1174868
you have no idea who these Koreans are
 
user142019
I don’t watch games.
 
user142019
I play games.
 
user1174868
5:43 PM
You cant get good if you dont watch the best players though
 
user142019
I don’t see why.
 
user142019
Do multiplayer.
 
user142019
Anyway, I only play Minecraft and Metal Gear Solid.
 
user1174868
Because it would be like trying to become the best mathematician in the world by starting fro mscratch
 
user1174868
you build off other peoples knowledge
 
5:44 PM
Question on inline assembly with gcc dealing with moving a 32 bit memory location to a 64 bit register and correctly indicating to gcc that this is happening should be categorized/tagged as what? :/
 
user1174868
I think a match between Huk and idra is more interesting than any korean vs korean match I have seen
 
user1174868
It is hard to be a fan of a player just for their playstyle, I mean with the exception of MMA and a few others most koreans have a similar play style
 
user1174868
Not like Idra, TLO and Naniwa who all have distinct play styles
 
Ell
hmm I'm confused
given this g_signal_connect(instance, detailed_signal, c_handler, data) where detailed_signal could be a string literal
how would I pass an std string to it? if I just do .c_str() it will be cleaned up when exiting the function. what do I do?
 
evening folks
 
user406009
5:48 PM
@Ell You are going to have to allocate memory to be cleaned up in c_handler.
 
Ell
hmm okay
 
user406009
Darn, it's so tempting to make this ResourseLoader class a singleton.
 
@Lalaland how very dare you
 
user142019
@Ell something like this:
 
user142019
char* foo = new char[str.size()];
std::copy(std::begin(str), std::end(str), foo);
g_signal_connect(instance, foo, [] (char* name) { delete[] name; }, data);
 
5:53 PM
hey, if I have a class X : public Y and both have a void memberfunction(), and if I have an X* in a std::unique_ptr<Y>, how do I call X's memberfunction on that?
 
user142019
@Ell Maybe add a comment for clarity. I would consider it OK.
 
Ell
@Zoidberg'-- that is pretty much what I have at the moment, I was just hoping to not have to use new and delete, but I guess theres no way?
 
user142019
It’s the easiest and clearest way to do it. So it’s fine.
 
user1174868
well the last foreigner is about to be knocked out I think lol
 
user406009
@Ell If it was a std::function callback you could pass in a std::shared_ptr. But alas, C APIs suck.
 
user1174868
5:56 PM
also I hate that stupid "asian level" argument, it is so stupid
 
user1174868
basically how well a "country" does at something is directly related to how many people that have trying to do that thing at a high level
 

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