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user1174868
5:00 AM
repo?
 
user1174868
I aint afraid of no ghosts
 
Repository in this case.
 
Would the repo really help?
 
Xeo
@LucDanton: Sorry, been working on my own zip_with solution. liveworkspace.org/code/f11c8c19470db008cdf0a31f240d822e
 
@Rapptz no it won't. :)
 
Xeo
5:07 AM
(very crude with no forwarding etc)
 
Yeah, I don't think so either.
 
@Xeo Yeah I know how to make it work. I have a working zip_with. Also my nth_elems is called... slice! (Gonna change that/hide away in some detail namespace).
 
Xeo
@LucDanton What exactly do we not want from that? The N*N instantiations?
 
user1174868
my dick hurts, by getting pounded by programming for so long
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Wait, your slice slices together multiple tuples?
 
5:10 AM
@Xeo N * N is the shape of the data, not a measure of complexity. Because that would be noted e.g. O(N * N).
 
> There is now (thanks to CERN's presence :-) a working group on reflection in C++.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Right.
 
@Xeo It predates the more recent work.
2 hours ago, by Luc Danton
@Xeo That I can do things with non-packs that I can't do with packs. Namely all those things we need indices for, since this solution supplants that. As a consequence for elaborated nested expansions, now instead of transforming a subexpression into a function call (to prevent some expansion in select spots and put some, possibly different, expansion in some select other spots) I need to write an appropriate operator... somewhere.
So that's the context for my previous comment.
 
// Overloads==
bool operator== (const Vertex &n1, const string &n2)
{
return n1.getName() == n2;
}
is it possible to do something like this?
I can't seem to get it to work, if it is
 
Xeo
5:11 AM
Yes, why not?
 
(Although I must revise the opening since AFAICT introducing non-pack expansion doesn't remove expressive power at all.)
 
@Xeo I get a compile error of Error C2679: binary '==': no operator found which takes a right-hand operand of type'const std::string' (or there is no acceptable conversion)
 
Make it a friend and let it access the private member?
 
1
A: How to use std::find/std::find_if with a vector of custom class objects?

NikkoYou have to define operator== with two Objects outside your class, as a tool function, not a member. Then to make it friend just put the declaration of the function inside the class. try something like this: class Nick { public: friend bool operator== ( const Nick &n1, const Nick &am...

I was following this answer
I have the friend declared in the header file
 
Then why are you using a getter?
 
Xeo
5:14 AM
16 mins ago, by Luc Danton
And then it works. But it's not what we want.
What exactly did we not want here?
 
N * N shape requirement.
 
@Rapptz what do you mean?
 
return n1.getName() == n2; <-- getter. "getName"
 
No reason for zip_with(plus {}, make_tuple(1, 2), make_tuple(3, 4), make_tuple(5, 6)) not to work.
 
you mean the n1.getName()?
 
5:15 AM
What else?
 
All the properties are private....
 
@KronoS The friend keyword lets the function access private members.
 
so I need to use a 'getter' to get it's name
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Hah, didn't even know that doesn't work. :D I just randomly picked 3-tuples.
 
I'm feeling a #facepalm coming my way
 
5:16 AM
@Xeo N * N shape means N N-tuples.
 
Being a friend of someone means you can access their private parts.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton yeah, I didn't notice that was a requirement with my code. Seems I had something else in mind when looking at the N * N
 
@Rapptz Error "Vertex::mName" is inaccessible
 
@KronoS The advice you're getting is worthless because you're not posting actual, complete code. If we had a simple example we could pinpoint the exact issue(s).
 
return n1.mName == n2
 
5:17 AM
'Complete'
 
// Add a child node to the parent.
void Graph::AddChildNode(Vertex * const aChildVertex, const string aParent)
{
	auto result = find(mInternalGraph.begin(), mInternalGraph.end(), aParent);

	if(result != mInternalGraph.end())
	{
		result -> addEdge(aChildVertex);
	}
}
 
Yeah, I'm worthless and so is my advice.
Try posting on SO.
 
// Overloads==
bool operator== (const Vertex &n1, const string &n2)
{
	return n1.mName == n2;
}
The idea is that I have a list of Vertices (with a prop Name) and and I'm wanting to compare that property to a string through using the find method
 
Xeo
Hm, atleast I can see where I require that all N tuples have N elements
 
Try adding an overload with swapped arguments, i.e. taking (std::string const&, Vertex const&). Also none of those need to be friends, and using the getter is fine.
If that doesn't work, use std::find_if.
 
Xeo
5:20 AM
Try with find_if and an appropriate function object. If you have C++11 available, find_if(c.begin(), c.end(), [&](Vertex const& v){ return v.getName() == aParent; });
 
@Rapptz That's not nice of you.
 
Eh? Who am I insulting?
 
Yourself.
 
So?
 
55 secs ago, by Luc Danton
@Rapptz That's not nice of you.
 
5:25 AM
lol
 
'tis just the vibe I get sometimes. Nothing really special.
 
What is?
Honestly I'd be grateful if you'd choose not to vaguebook in this chat.
 
What's vaguebook?
Oh. Honestly, you replied to my message and you consider that as a one-word status?
I'm talking about paltriness/worthlessness, it's the only thing that even fits in that context.
 
y u do dis
 
Xeo
5:34 AM
Who?
 
@Xeo Do you typically call header files like that? I've never seen it like that before.
 
@Xeo Welcome to months ago. No but seriously, you do realize that implementing an actual zip_with wasn't the point?
 
Xeo
@LucDanton I may have lost track of that along the way... x_x
@Rapptz Call what how?
 
You did #include <tuple> then #include <iostream> a few lines later.
 
It's not that it's impossible to implement (since it is), but that non-pack expansion doesn't help on a fundamental level when it comes to packs and their expansion. Since operator overloading is a language feature, I find that a heavy price to pay.
 
Xeo
5:37 AM
Oh, that.
I do it for online code normally, so that the implementation stuff is seperated from the example / testing stuff
@LucDanton Doesn't that all depend on whether f((...t)...)... does or does not do what I expect it to? I mean, operator... should behave as any other operator, and should as such work like we want it to.
 
It depends on the proposal. I don't think the argument that it is an operator is enough alone. Because it's a super weird operator.
 
Xeo
Well, true dat.
 
Why can't it be two periods? Ellipsis are already used for other things.
 
Xeo
But it's still some kind of normal operator, like prefix +, and really, the only sane implementation would be to expand it to f(...t0, ...t1, ...t2, ...t3)....
@Rapptz You can always change it to two periods, the symbol of the operator itself is unimportant.
 
Is it not sane to reject this for mismatched packs? It is after all the behaviour we have right now.
 
Xeo
5:44 AM
Ah, yeah, but that's orthogonal to the operator... proposal, isn't it?
And also, I didn't expand the snippet above the second time on purpose.
 
No. Until I'm convinced there isn't a worthwhile superior alternative.
@Xeo If ...t really is a pack then it must act like any other pack.
Otherwise that would be introducing an inconsistency.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton ...t itself would not be a pack if t is a pack, since you can't apply operators to packs
 
Well, ...t in the context of pattern(pattern(...t)...)....
Honestly even trying to write it out doesn't work. What separates the two patterns? That's the problem right here.
Shouldn't it be f(...(...t)...)...) as well? Except it becomes ambiguous of course.
What with t being a non-pack of non-packs.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton The second prefix doesn't make sense to me.
 
Oh right, we're passing in Tuples....
 
Xeo
5:52 AM
Exactly.
@LucDanton That would only make sense if pattern(...t)... would expand to one or more packs... aka if t is a pack of objects where operator... can be applied on
 
That does bring an interesting, related case. What if you have a non-pack of non-packs?
 
Xeo
@LucDanton I don't think you can create one. ...(...t) would apply operator... to a pack, for which it isn't defined.
wait
scrap that
 
What is ...(...t...)...?
Ah, I don't want to describe which indices map to what.
 
Xeo
heh
 
I don't know, I think we should investigate on when we have your copy of the compiler working.
 
Xeo
5:56 AM
Say t = tuple<a,b,c>, ...(...t...)... would be ...(a,b,c)... would be ... a good question... syntax error, I guess?
 
(...(...t))......?
This is so dumb. Can I write it (......t)......?
 
Xeo
I swear, if this gets accepted for C++14, we won't know anymore which ellipsis are part of the example code and which are meant as a "left stuff out here" placeholder on SO
 
Okay, counter-proposal: allow deduction of defaulted function parameters and introduce Standard library indices. template<typename Tuple, Indices... I> void foo(Tuple&& tuple, std::indices<Indices...> = std::indices_for<Tuple>());
Actually that sucks pretty hard too.
 
Xeo
Allow pack typedefs!
There was even a proposal for that already.
 
Counter-counter proposal: allow defaults for pack parameters template<typename Tuple, Indices... I = std::indices_for<Tuple>>.
 
Xeo
6:01 AM
unsigned... Indices = std::indices_for<Tuple>::pack
 
@Xeo Solves something else.
Oh wait, it does fit in. Defaulting a pack from a pack typedef is a form of deconstruction I suppose.
 
Xeo
Aye
And if you have pack-defs, you won't actually need the template parameter anymore
just do std::get<typename std::indices_for<Tuple>::pack>(tuple)...
 
I don't recall that. Better check the proposal again.
 
posted on November 02, 2012 by Anders Schau Knatten

In which I briefly mention what pure functional programming is, explain why this can be slow in C++, and use move semantics to solve that problem. Be warned that this post is a bit longer than usual for this blog, and that it assumes more knowledge of C++11 than my posts usually do. Pure functional [...]

 
I completely overlooked the proposal because I thought it was a syntax-heavy typelist solution. In-place expansion makes it cross concerns with all the points we've raised however.
 
Xeo
6:06 AM
@LucDanton IOW, it's a small-form version of the operator... one, I guess.
 
Well, the overlaps mean they solve some of the same problems. I would disagree that either can really be expressed in terms of the other though.
 
Xeo
Now that I think about it, yeah, the operator... one is about values, the pack-def one about types.
You couldn't just have typedef std::tuple<...> pack and do pack....
 
It really, really feels like we ought to marry typelists and tuple (values).
If I can do eat_many_typelists<<int, long, char>, <double, double*>, <nullptr>>::type someone is bound to ask why I can't do eat_many_tuples(std::piecewise_construct, <3, 2, 1>, <nullptr, nullptr>, <"Hello">) (nevermind how hard it is to parse).
Reminds me of how convenient it is to have the value constructor in [1, 2, 3] matches in syntax with the type constructor in [Int].
(Better example would involve, well, tuples.)
I fear that any proposal is doomed to be not ambitious enough so as to be elegant, and is likely to be too ambitious so as to make the language more clumsy.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton This one's lingering in my mind btw. I think it's very similar to the zip_with one we had before. ((...(...t))...)... -> ((...<a,b,c>)...)... -> (...a, ...b, ...c)... and now it depends if operator... is overloaded for the types of a, b and c. If we let them be tuples with a = <a1>, b = <b1,b2>, c = <c1,c2,c3>, we get a1, b1, b2, c1, c2, c3.
 
And can it be written (......t)......?
 
Xeo
6:16 AM
@LucDanton IOW, you want a concise syntax to create tuples, huh? (types and values) (a, b, c) for a type and (1, 2, 3) for a value is what Haskell has, right?
@LucDanton I hope not but I have no idea. :(
 
Also try to get a1, b1, c1, b2, c2 and you more or less get zip_with.
@Xeo Yeah. Works fine in a world where types and values are well separated. <int, double> t = <0, 0>; has to be pretty wtf to parse.
 
Xeo
heh
@LucDanton As I said, very similar to the non-pack zip_with we had before.
 
At this point I don't know in what direction to point C++ as a language. Library-wise I want tons of stuff but the language has way too much legacy.
@Xeo Which I'm asserting doesn't work!
So I don't think it's possible to have such an expansion in the non-pack of non-packs case either.
The expanding ...'s are flipped with respect to their unpacking, prefix ...'s and pack expansion is not powerful enough to deal with that.
I.e. transposition really.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Just because operator... is kinda funky?
 
No, this is assuming the proposal doesn't change current expansion rules.
Current rules don't match an expansion to a particular subpattern, there is only one big pattern and every pack must be the same size.
 
Xeo
6:24 AM
@LucDanton I see where I wen't wrong in my example above. At the (...a, ...b, ...c)... stage, I shouldn't have chosen different-sized tuples for a, b, c
 
More restrictions? You suck!
Well no you're right, it's the same restriction.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton And then it should actually expand like you said here
 
But I don't want to transpose N * N. I want to transpose N * M :|
 
Xeo
(...a, ...b, ...c)... -> (a1,b1,c1), (a2,b2,c2), ... -> a1, b1, c1, a2, b2, c2, ...
 
What's the original pattern which put us here?
 
Xeo
6:26 AM
@LucDanton ((...(...t))...)...
With t being a tuple
 
Okay. Then how do I get a1, ..., aN, b1, ..., bN, ...?
 
Xeo
@LucDanton They might change the rules to only expand to the smallest pack size if someone proposes that, since unmatched packs are currently a compiler error, i.e. it would be relaxing the rules.
 
That would yield K * K where K is the min of the two. So yeah, it works, but it sucks, and it's not what we want.
The language doesn't need you to heap more hacks on it ಠ_ಠ
 
Xeo
Otherwise, we need to go with the helper f(get<...SmallestSize>(tups)...)... route
@LucDanton Shouldn't it be N * m, where m is the smallest tuple size?
 
I don't think so.
 
6:31 AM
There needs to be a "Nice Comment" badge.... :(
 
There is. It's called Pundit. ;D
 
I Pundit at least a hundred times over already...
I also have two comments between 80 - 100. And one comment at 300+.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton With dream rules, f((...t)...)... -> f(...t0, ...t1, ..., ...tN)... -> f(t00, t10, ..., tN0), f(t01, t11, ..., tN1), ..., f(t0m, t1m, ..., tNm).
 
Yeah I can add more non-packs and break your dream.
As long as there isn't an explicit way to map which expansion to which subpattern.
 
Xeo
Hai hai...
Well, write up a proposal. Good luck with the syntax for the mapping. :/
 
6:41 AM
So I have a question... I'm trying to create a basic map which is a list of vertices, and each vertex has a list of pointers to a connecting edge.
My problem is that when I return the created graph.. those pointers point to nowhere
 
23 mins ago, by Luc Danton
At this point I don't know in what direction to point C++ as a language. Library-wise I want tons of stuff but the language has way too much legacy.
 
Xeo
You could also join the Language Creator Club
 
I think it's too important to take a tour of the language landscape before claiming any kind of authority, which I think is important when designing a general-purpose PL.
I'm far from having seen enough of the language landscape.
I used to care mostly about good modularization in my code but these days I'm more data-oriented. And I don't really know why.
 
7:08 AM
SO's algorithm (or moderators?) fixed the serial downvoting I got yesterday :-)
Here's a two-year old philosophical blog posting of mine:
^ On "The strange topology of a spatially finite Universe"
:)
(I think I sort of twisted the title of a silly article in BYTE magazine once, "The amazing properties of the powers of 2!")
 
7:22 AM
@Cheersandhth.-Alf algo, pretty certain. Only if it was not a clear cut case, would a mod have possibly looked at it
 
> Why was everyone jumping for joy? Because Joy was stuck to the roof.
 
@StackedCrooked Reminds me of the Anti-joke cat
@AntiJokeCat
I don't do jokes.
219 tweets, 227k followers, following 3 users
 
@sehe > Why did the little girl's ice cream melt? She was on fire.
Holy..
 
@StackedCrooked Some are nice. At least as nice as your 'jump for joy' specimen :)
 
oh, you mean pope excrement
otherwise known as "poop"?
 
7:31 AM
smokes
 
@StackedCrooked Oh come on... they can be more creative than that: "Why did the lady's ice cream melt? She was hot?"
 
@Mysticial I like it as it is.
 
@Mysticial I'm sure they have that as well
 
@sehe Thanks for the link btw, it will undoubtedly become a source of infinite joy in my life.
 
user142019
Bad morning.
 
7:46 AM
That's not how you are supposed to say it.
 
@Zoidberg'-- Is it? Have some code (/cc @R.MartinhoFernandes)
"Lines of code" - I will never think of this any other way again. http://t.co/iKSBL0cg
 
user142019
@sehe right wrist hurts.
 
@StackedCrooked Where was that blurry snap taken? Public library?
@Zoidberg'-- Did another shock chat-roulette marathon ?! :o
 
user142019
@sehe I think I’ll see a doctor soon.
 
user142019
I have this problem a few days already and it’s only getting worse.
 
7:48 AM
@Zoidberg'-- Ow. That's not nice. See a doctor today, maybe? The weekend is never going to help
 
user142019
Peesschedeontsteking of tendovaginitis is ontsteking van een peesschede. Meestal betreft tendovaginitis de grote peesscheden van de spieren aan de onderarm bij het gewricht van de hand. Een peesschedeontsteking uit zich door pijn en beperking van beweging. Een gebogen vinger kan bijvoorbeeld niet meer worden gestrekt ('trigger finger'). Peesschedeontsteking is een van de problemen die een rol kunnen spelen bij CANS (Complaints of Arm Neck and/or Shoulder). De oorzaak van peesschedeontsteking is vooralsnog niet duidelijk, maar irritatie van de peesschede door een vorm van overbelasting ...
 
user142019
@sehe that’s not a bad idea.
 
@Zoidberg'-- Could it be your (in my view) rather unique touch-screen typing habits?
 
user142019
I never use a touch-screen.
 
Wait, you use what on the iPod then?
 
user142019
7:51 AM
I don’t use my iPod anymore since I have a laptop.
 
user142019
aarg fucking arm
 
user142019
Typing with one hand sucks.
 
@Zoidberg'-- Oh. Surprising. That prolly means the switch is giving your hands/arms trouble adapting. Mmm.
@Zoidberg'-- Watch that anyway, since you don't want to strain the other hand while compensating for the right one...
 
user142019
@sehe rofl
 
Well, I'm being serious. I mean, the classical pattern: strain an ankle, get back pains from avoiding the ankle. Lose hearing on one side, get neck pains from tilting your head to get directional clues from sound, etc.
Anyways, I gotta "run for office" (...) :)
 
user142019
7:54 AM
Well. OS X has dictation.
 
user142019
I’ll use that when I’m home to talk to you.
 
@Zoidberg'-- inb4 vocal chord problems
 
1
Q: uninitialized data and memcpy

Micha WiedenmannMike Miller says in 240. Uninitialized values and undefined behavior: The wording in 3.9.1 [basic.fundamental] was carefully crafted to allow use of unsigned char to access uninitialized data so that memcpy and such could be written in C++ without undefined behavior What is meant by that? W...

 
user142019
@sehe llooll
 
@Zoidberg'-- mumble
 
7:54 AM
^^ Implies that it is safe to use memcpy() on uninitialized data?
 
@Mysticial Why would it not be safe?
 
Reading uninitialized data is UB by standard.
 
It's writing into the data though
 
@LucDanton the nice thing about library stuff is that legacy cruft isn't a huge deal. Iostream stinks? Well, don't include the header. it's only the core language cruft that's truly painful
 
7:59 AM
I think that's what they mean
 
^ "Doctor, is this serious?" - "No, get yourself a woman"
 
user142019
@Cheersandhth.-Alf no, I use my other hand for that.
 
user142019
Or maybe that’s the problem.
 
user142019
 
user142019
Wintersun and Eluveitie y u no Europe.
 
8:15 AM
mornin'
 
8:26 AM
mawning
had my first (well I've driven before, just not in the UK) driving lesson last night
all went fairly well
 
driving is one of the reasons I wouldn't move to the UK permanently
that and the weather
 
Moaning - it's started with a bad omen - my mouse had crashed. No cursor movement and the red LED underneath the mouse had gone out:( Had to cycle the USB connector.
 
Hi
 
@Luchian Could you help me for a moment?
 
8:32 AM
I have driven on mainland Europe. It's not a pretty sight, especially at roundabouts. I've never actually gone round the wrong way, but a few times I've driven round several times to make sure I leave on the correct lane.
 
@manutd if it's a one-liner, sure. If it's more than that, try Stack Overflow. Also, note that this is the C++ room.
 
@MooingDuck If its incorrect for sample, then you might have misunderstood the problem, or there is some bug in your code. Do it whenever you have time :) And you are really looking like Neo and Trinity!
 
Ok, Do you know how to change timeout lengths of Connect(); function in windows?
 
That's not really a C++ question - it's Windows API! Also, I don't help manure fans:)
 
@MartinJames got a problem with winapi?
 
8:38 AM
Oh, Please forgive my rudeness
 
@LuchianGrigore No, just with Man Utd fans. I married one and have been suffering ever since :((((
 
HiHi
can anyone explain a bit CEDCL for me i read some articles in stackoverflow.com
 
@manutd Use async - ConnectEx with overlapped. Either that, or thread off the connect() operation.
 
but i didn't understand complete
i know that it cleans the stack
 
@ZiDoM Oh - you mean CDECL?
 
8:44 AM
oh yes
sry
 
@MartinJames ah... it's early, didn't get the pun... :(
 
CDECL i mean
does it clean the hole program stack?
 
@ZiDoM It's just the C calling convention. It's well-documented - what particular bit is proving troublesome?
@ZiDoM NO!
 
i think i didn't understand it complete i read some answers here that said
its not useful anymore
is that true?
 
It's useful if you are calling C/C++ functions!
 
8:48 AM
and how is that useful for them?
 
Well, beacuse if you use the wrong calling convention, your thread will UB, probably AV/crash.
 
and with cleaning stack there will be no crash so
btw does it clean the function stack or the stacks that are created before calling the function?
 
Either the caller cleans up the stack or the callee cleans up. If both or neither clean up, there will be big problems!
 
Look, it's like this: the caller pushes on parameters, the actual call instruction pushes on return address/flags/whatever. Upon return, the called function can bodge the stack pointer, (LEAVE, RET X), to remove the parameters, or the called function can just return and the caller must then attend to removing the parameter stack frame itself
 
9:00 AM
oh right, calling conventions
 
@TonyTheLion I'm not sure if it's a troll or not.
 
hmm
so it pushes to clear the function stack am i right?
 
@Marti
 
@ZiDoM The cller or callee moves the stack pointer so that the parameters are no longer accessible and the stack is in the same state as it was before the call/return sequence.
 
@Martin James Thanks a lot!
 
9:06 AM
OK, maybe you not troll - in this lounge, it's often difficult to tell.
 
@MartinJames Thanks for your help
 
9:17 AM
how I feel around British people ^
 
we're sincerely polite
 
It's always best to be polite first. You can always stab them in the back later.
 
fuck that, stab them straight in the face if that's what you want to do
I hate backstabbing sons of bitches
 
It's much safer if you can persuade them to turn round willingly before you pull out your knife:)
 
Vector of vectors isn't exactly a "2D array", as it's not contignuous in memory — Kos 6 mins ago
how is contiguity in memory a definition for an array?
 
9:32 AM
would the upvoter please explain why? — Mitch Wheat 1 min ago
3
lol
 
0
Q: Compiling ImageMagick with JPEG support on MinGW

satuonI've compiled ImageMagick, but it can't open JPEG files. In the configure.log I found this: configure:29120: checking for JPEG configure:29122: result: configure:29126: checking jconfig.h usability configure:29126: gcc -std=gnu99 -std=gnu99 -c -fopenmp -g -O2 -Wall -D_DLL -D_MT conftest.c &g...

The problem is I compile libjpeg, but it doesn't install jconfig.h!
 
@TonyTheLion native arrays are defined as being contiguous. :) As are vectors
 
Can we get this re-opened?
 
It's a pretty common requirement for an array, whether or not it's part of how an array is defined
 
user142019
Lists ftw.
 
9:47 AM
@jalf right, but that doesn't mean that the definition of array means contiguous. An array to me is just a sequence of elements. Contiguity is just something that the C++ standard guarantees about the implementation of certain types of arrays.
 
@jalf Yes. but I can't see how it could be sensibly extended to arrays of arrays, especially if the arrays are to be resizeable.
 
@MartinJames if the arrays are to be resizeable, then they aren't (C++) arrays
@TonyTheLion well, in a C++ context, isn't it reasonable to use the C++ definition of an array? ;)
In C++, an arrays inot just a sequence of elements
@MartinJames and if they're not resizeable, then it's trivial. Just put each array after the previous one in memory
 
@jalf OK, yes. I was thinking vectors..
@LuchianGrigore Let me guess - that'll be the guy with a display screen the size of a small planet.
 
Why does that matter?
 
'Requirements' like that make my troll-filter go off. A bit like interating through all GUIDs.
 
10:18 AM
@jalf meh C++
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: The cat was executed, and didn't throw an exception. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
Where is the cat btw?
 
donno
 
Missing in action D:
 
Blocked inside some 'execute' function, presumably.
 
maybe he deadlocked
 
10:24 AM
:)
 
at first he was like
while(peek_events()){process_events();}
but then he was all
while(1){}
 
oh UB
Why not Zoidberg?
 
Oh - he's livelocked.
 
"Why not Zoidberg?"
that should be @Zoidberg'--'s language's slogan :)
 
user142019
Zoidlang
 
user142019
10:27 AM
Need to write software? Why not Zoidlang?
 
user142019
@TonyTheLion lol
 
10:53 AM
/me head explodes
spent the last two hours reading about windows manifest files and assemblies
 
@jalf Oh hey. I spent 2 hours tracking why an assembly wouldn't load. Turned out we have internal builds of MS EntLib 4.1 and somewhere in the past they switch the assembly signing key. SOOO. The GAC contained the exact versions of the assemblies.... only not with the expected PublicKeyToken
Reading Fusion logs is a joy too. I have meddled enough with bind failures, manifests, manifest COM registration to know it is painful
Jul 11 at 22:27, by sehe
Sounds like they are trying to surpass Microsoft with overengineered backwards compatibility hacks
(WinSxS? Manifests? .local? Umpteen copies of a gazillion versions of msvcrt/mfc?)
 
@sehe but those are .NET ones, aren't they? I'm looking at the native equivalents, which have the added bonus of being so underdocumented and basically unknown to nearly everyone. :)
 
guis
is it true that separating implementation from interface is ALWAYS a good idea?
even in the case where an interface is implemented concretely only once?
 
11:13 AM
How do you know it will never change?
 
Please don't answer with a question? I'd like arguments pro or cons
 
Well it's pretty easy to disprove "ALWAYS"
If your implementation is fixed then there really isn't an interface
it's just an exposed implementatoin
 
@Cicada look at YAGNI principle, if don't need to separate an interface, don't do it.
 
Disqus doesn’t work without third-party cookies. :/ Bummer!
 
Cicada specifically asked about GUIs. Are there any existing GUI systems where the implementation is exposed? I suspect not.
 
11:28 AM
@MartinJames or intentionally misspelled 'guys' :)
@MartinJames and "separate implementation from interface" != "implementation is exposed". The implementation can be hidden without having a separate interface that can be implemented by others
 
11:43 AM
@jalf My point was I have meddled with both. In combination too. Think mixed mode assemblies using MSVCRT via manifests. And then envision deployment issues on Windows 7 (when it was just released)
@MartinJames Ermm. I don't see the GUI reference.
@Cicada even if you only implement one UI, decoupling is still extremely convenient to enable rewriting backends (not that one concrete UI), and (unit) testing the logic separately from the UI
@jalf Ah that could have been the GUI reference, yes. Never entered my mind before you said it
 
Guys/GUIs ... my day started badly when my mouse crashed, and it's getting worse:(
 

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