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4:06 AM
I just made one of those "global registry" things people sometimes mention in singleton discussions. Guess what, it's not a singleton.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes did you make use of a static somewhere or some new C++11 feature perhaps?
 
@kfmfe04 Yes, I used a static variable.
But none of my classes has a "single instance" restriction.
Also, it's annoying that register is a keyword.
 
4:27 AM
Hey!
 
man
I feel like a two-star programmar
I have an iterator into a vector of pointers and I had to double de-reference
 
Ha, you suck.
 
shut it you
 
Something like **it?
 
yes
 
4:33 AM
Is that so bad?
 
but but two star!
 
You know it's alright, but it leaves a nasty taste in your mouth.
 
well, the function I'm calling really needs to be changed to accept T* anyway
 
Why a pointer instead of a reference?
 
a vector of references?
 
4:35 AM
&*&*&
 
we call those recursive-star programmers :P
 
@DeadMG No, I mean, why does the function need a pointer?
 
Because it only accepts STAR values!
 
because there's no need to copy the value, and there's no use case where the function is called with a non-pointer
so it'd just save me from having to de-reference in absolutely every call site
which is imo dumb
 
Arrgdfh. I hate that you can't map[k] on const maps.
 
4:37 AM
you can in WideC!
 
What's the easiest workaround for this crap?
 
if I remembered to implement the necessary supporting feature, anyway
 
Ah, seems to be .at().
 
Did you see the most recent video from C++ and beyond? The notion that you should always pass shared_ptr by reference in order to avoid many ref increments and decrements was actually new to me. Seems so obvious in retrospect.
 
@StackedCrooked Always, unless you really want to share :)
 
4:39 AM
copying is bad and you should never do it unless you have to
that basic principle holds across virtually every type
 
Usually int is passed by value.
 
virtually
 
That is, only types with virtual inheritance.
:P
 
You know I'm always right. Always. (virtually)
 
Will WideC params be default byref with explicitness for byval?
 
4:42 AM
I haven't made a decision
 
I remember reading on SO that it's better to pass shared_ptr by value or otherwise the semantics become confusing.
 
they don't really
just some moron couldn't grasp the idea of const
but I'm definitely considering auto&&, effectively, as a default type
 
const is weird sometimes.
I want T maybe_const& foo() maybe_const { return some_t; } instead of overloading twice with the same body.
 
foo() { return some_t; } done
in WideC of course
assuming that you wanted a mutable reference in the mutable case, I guess
 
Yeah. I suspected.
@DeadMG Yes, that's exactly the point.
Scott Meyers showed a trick to implement the const version using the non-const version, but it uses const_cast and many times it is longer than doing it by hand.
 
4:48 AM
why not just expose the data member as public rather than through an accessor?
that gives you T&& in the rvalue case, too
 
@DeadMG I'm thinking stuff like operator[] for example.
 
ah yes
 
@RMartinhoFernandes return const_cast<T*>(static_cast<const T*>(this)->foo()); ?
 
@StackedCrooked Yes, I guess that's it. Freaking ugly.
 
If I remember correctly.
That's a non-const implemented in terms of const.
It's all about reducing duplication, I guess.
Perhaps the ugliness can be encapsulated somehow..
 
4:50 AM
Trading obfuscation by duplication.
 
Programming seems like a trade business sometimes.
You gain some, you lose some.
And you're never happy.
 
story of my life
 
They should make a movie of it.
 
what, genius kid becomes permanently depressed due to idiocy of surrounding people?
I think it's already been made
 
4:54 AM
Well, perhaps this time you can add a new twist to the story.
 
Damn, I made an argument defaulted and forgot to make the ctor explicit.
 
I find it statistically unlikely
 
He was never alive to begin with!
 
rofl
 
Actually that would apply both to you and the robot.
 
4:56 AM
Hey, I take offense on that. Robots are alive.
 
lol
 
Hm, depending on how flexible your interpretation on the definition of life is.
 
Name something that living meat/living herbs/living invisible things do that robots can't.
 
anything capable of pondering the meaning probably qualifies
 
@RMartinhoFernandes What kind of robots are we talking about? (No warning tonight.)
 
4:57 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Growing?
Healing?
 
@LucDanton Gosh, I closed it fast.
 
Having preferences?
 
@StackedCrooked Robots can repair themselves.
@StackedCrooked Do you think bacteria have those?
Let's not confuse intelligence with life.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't know if they do.
But, yes!
 
i think main criteria is that robot brain is not organic
 
4:59 AM
Not that's just carbon chauvinism.
 
or if it is, not as inefficient as ordinary animal brain
 
Not all living things actually have brains.
@AlfPSteinbach Not all living beings are animals.
 
In the C++ and beyond video it's funny where Alexandrescu basically says that UTF16 sucks and that UTF8 is the way to go. Herb remains remarkably silent and neither confirms or denies his statements.
 
Plants don't have brains.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That's because they are stupid.
Or was it the other way around? Perhaps we'll never know.
 
5:01 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes include fish then (in particular sharks)
 
@AlfPSteinbach Of course I'm including fish. I'm just saying that having a brain is not a requisite for life.
 
also that beak-nosed thingy in australia
 
A cell is alive and not an animal.
 
Fungi (unless they come from Yuggoth) don't have brains.
 
well i'm saying that the brain mostly defines whether robot or human
human can replace most of body, still be human with a human brain
 
5:03 AM
@AlfPSteinbach Plants are robots because they have no brains?
 
But we were discussing life, not humanity.
 
robot can take on human body, will still be robot due to brain (or android, but let's use general terms)
 
@AlfPSteinbach But what if the brains become better understood so that they eventually can be virtualized?
 
then definition difficult yes
probably new categories needed
 
And concepts.
 
5:05 AM
e.g. human consciousness running in virtual box in robot brain
 
Arrgh, you homo sapiens are too prone to navel gazing. Just because you have a brain, you assume everything needs one.
 
or if humans evolve really big brains
a robot brain running in virtualization in human brain
 
@AlfPSteinbach And if you then suddenly go insane and start killing people? Will they just you as a person or as a defective machine?
 
but i don't think the wetware is up to that really
 
Also, you assume that having a brain implies consciousness and all other kinds of human crap.
 
5:06 AM
A recent theory is that consciousness is actually an illusion.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes no, a dead body can have brain
i think stir-fry pasta with chicken pieces and veggies etc. must be uniquely norwegian
 
What about those very simple brains that are mostly just a package of survival and predatory instincts?
 
There are even dead bodies that eat brains.
 
i just add a lot of tabasco
@RMartinhoFernandes one might think of an old-fashioned thermostat (speling?)
it's just off on
very low consciousness
it is very much like entropy i think
not well defined but when numbers get large enough, can/must be dealt with
 
? : is annoying me. If I do Base* b = ( pred ) ? (p_childA) : (p_childB); I need to cast the rhs?!? Ack.
 
5:09 AM
I think you can emulate that kind of thing on plastic.
That won't change a thing about the livingness of that plastic.
 
what this with predators and children?
 
@AlfPSteinbach Like what I don't know, maybe insects (I suppose they are about the dumbbest animals, could be reptiles instead) have?
 
well some insects exhibit surprisingly flexible group behavior
 
bees ants
 
I think it's reptiles that have the simplest ones.
 
5:12 AM
douglas hofstadter went on and on about that in GEB
how an ant colony could be conscious with no single ant conscious
of course searle would regard lack of consciousness for single ant as proof that colony could not be conscious
 
Wikipedia says "Life (cf. biota) is a characteristic that distinguishes objects that have signaling and self-sustaining processes (i.e., living organisms) from those that do not"
That doesn't seem to exclude robots.
I guess life is like porn. You know it when you see it.
 
@AlfPSteinbach Macross Frontier is a story where the earth is attacked by a race of aliens which appear to be dumb. But somehow they manage to pull of impressive feats. Turns out they are telepathic and each individual is like a neuron belonging to a big brain.
Actually, that was just the back story, it was really just about pop-music.
 
Als
Hello
 
@StackedCrooked Sounds like the Buggers in Ender's Game.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Hm..
 
Als
5:18 AM
I am not a owner of this room anymore..
 
Seems like you were disfrequented.
 
Als
Yes I have not been around much in here...More in the forum..My grandmother expired :(
 
Anyway, @sbi felt uncomfortable with the fact that this room has much more owners than any other room. So he wanted to reduce the number to 10.
 
Thus the disfrequenting.
 
5:21 AM
This number being based on the "frequently in room" list.
 
Disfrequent verb, to remove someone from the owner's list due to failure to show up regularly.
 
@StackedCrooked i don't think the PHB is telepathic. rather, he succeeds due to a complete lack of empathy or consideration of others. it is almost a paradox
 
Actually according to the new rules jalf should be kicked out since he doesn't seem to appear in the most frequent list.
 
Als
I know. Actually, I dont really care about being a owner or whatever
 
5:24 AM
Anyone not agreeing is free to kick him out :D
 
readies boot
 
3, 2, 1, ...
 
Als
:)
@AlfPSteinbach: I hope the comment thingy between us yesterday doesnt change the mutual respect & if i may say friendship between us.
 
Woo, love.
 
Herb call shared pointers "shared putters".
 
Als
5:26 AM
lol
 
Yeah, STL does that too.
And "stood" for std.
 
Als
Whenever i hear STL the name Tomalak buzzes past my eyes
 
At my workplace Tcl is pronounced as tackle.
 
Als
:)
 
5:29 AM
@Als uh, where?
 
Als
@AlfPSteinbach: on this one
3
Q: C++ What's faster? static member function or ordinary one?

codekiddyI'm trying to studdy some performace things... this question may sound stupid, but I'll give it a try. Let's assume each function has 100 lines of same code. or does this difference dosn't realy metter? which one will be faster on execution in main function: struct A { static void f() ...

 
@Als oh, i see that SO moderators have yet again altered history. i think my original answer-comment was accurate and good. i intentionally did not respond to steve jessop's trolling, i thought it was nice touch. very bad that it's now deleted. just goes to show that a site suitable for children (as SO is) should not be run by children (as it unfortunately also is)
 
Als
@AlfPSteinbach :) glad we agree to disagree on the issue and can still share the same spectrum :)
 
well i don't know what you wrote then that you thought i would not like
 
Als
I remember writing something like eventhough i respect u and that u are better than SO(as Steve trolled something about that) I respectfully disagree on branding q's as silly or stupid
 
5:39 AM
on general grounds, disagree with your comment that "there are no silly Questions, there are only silly(at times) weird assumptions." of course there are silly question. the problem is that mentioning that in a forum like SO, then up pops half a dozen not-too-bright people who think that that is a value judgment about the person who asks
i think it would be better if instead of "silly" on could say "your question sucks big-time"
 
Als
I just feel it dissuades people from asking q's and then making weird assumptions
 
Als
which is more harmful i believe
 
why one-box not work?
oh
 
5:44 AM
I found this clip as a the first result for the search term "silly". In the spirit of silliness...
I'm actually liking it.
 
^ i have to tune out the voice
 
Als
I will tell you whats silly, there is one guy in my facebook friends who sort of likes 100-1000 things everyday and his likes spam my updates whenever i log in to facebook!
 
> Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?
 
@Als Can't you un-something him?
 
^ There are no stupid questions, huh?
 
Als
5:49 AM
Hot girl asking and answering stupid Q's
hmm
 
@StackedCrooked oh you were googling about my use of "sucks" and ended up with lady ada lovelace.
 
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: Yes I am just kinda in two minds of the said person not getting to know i did un-something
 
It's a actually a quite funny video.
 
i don't understand
but then i'm pretty slow at 07 AM
generally
 
> I subscribed because I am planning on doing a masturbation marathon to your videos. I think it might be your eyes.....or your tits. Not sure yet.
lol
 
5:52 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes is that a comment on the video above? i don't see it. mabe youtube is censored differently in norway?
 
@AlfPSteinbach Yes, it's one of the top voted ones.
On the video you linked.
 
@AlfPSteinbach I bookmarked it. It was really hilarious at the end.
Common sense in the face of utter stupidity turns out to be funnier than I thought.
 
@StackedCrooked You're doing a marathon too?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Ha.
 
5:58 AM
"the baby is drinking the blood" lol
 
6:16 AM
Hungary sounds really bad: andorjakab.blog.hu/2012/01/06/…
 
6:30 AM
im bad with variables but how would i do this? printf("Ussage: %s number", argv[1);
c
 
You're missing a ].
 
7:32 AM
Anyone contributing to Open Source?
I wan't to do it, so i wanted to know which one can i start with?
 
First you need source. And then you need to open it.
 
lol
 
Er. whose source?
 
user457812
Your question makes not the sense O_o
 
I thought of KDE but i guess it is Python. I wanted some project on C++
 
7:35 AM
You shouldn't open-source someone else's code.
 
user457812
I'm pretty sure KDE is not Python.
 
@nil: sure?
 
user457812
I'm going to open your source, @StackedCrooked. I'm going to open it and there's nothing you can do about it!
 
Is it KDE or is it Python? Find out right after the break!
@nil I defend with my battle axe!
 
Why would KDE be in python?
 
7:37 AM
If KDE is in C++, i will go for it.
 
A little research would do no harm.
 
@Pubby:Because the getting started page asks to install python interpretor
@StackedCrooked: i did a little resaerch that's why i know this little much
:P
I guess i need big research
 
I guess that was too little then :D
 
user457812
I don't see why you'd assume the entirety of KDE is in Python just based on it requiring Python be installed
 
KDE is coded in C++, it includes python for binding of plugins modules etc..
 
7:39 AM
how much big then? :)
1 cm
 
why don't you just download it and take a peek?

http://kdesvn-build.kde.org/releases/kdesrc-build-1.14.1.tar.bz2
 
@kfmfe04: er i downloaded, but i guess i didn't download the right stuff
@Pubby: yeah that page says C++, let me see
 
@VinayakGarg link I posted doesn't work?
 
try a new link perhaps? the one you posted just "hung" on loading
oops, never mind
 
7:42 AM
never mind
ok i will have to get Qt first
oh there is so much stuff to install.
And one link is leading to another
to another
 
aye - KDE has many dependencies
 
user457812
If that's a problem, try a smaller project
 
and i will have to learn git s***
(oh let me edit it)
 
user457812
git's easy to learn.
 
git >is< da shit
never going back to svn for me
 
user457812
7:48 AM
For most purposes, you really only need to know git add, push, commit, and checkout. The other stuff is awesome, but if you don't need it or use it, chances are nothing bad will happen.
 
@nil: i have tortoiseSVN
 
user457812
And I guess clone, but that's easy.
 
should i get totoiseGIT now?
 
user457812
Are you a Windows user?
 
yeah
 
user457812
7:49 AM
Ok, nevermind, you're in for a world of suffering then
 
if it's as good as tortoiseSVN, I would try it...
 
yes that's a trouble
 
user457812
At least I remember having a horrible time using git on Windows, but it's been a while.
 
You're using windows and want to be a KDE dev? What?
 
i use ubuntu on virtual box, but that's even greater pain
 
user457812
7:50 AM
@Pubby If I remember right, a lot of KDE stuff works on Windows.
 
vinyak, try VMware with unity you can use both windows and linux on the same desktop
 
@VinayakGarg if you have a decent Windows machine, consider install something like Ubuntu inside Virtualbox - would prolly make KDE development work more easily
 
i mean ubuntu is good
 
user457812
Or just set up a second partition with Linux on it.
 
I do 90% of my development on Ubuntu inside Virtualbox on top of OSX
 
7:51 AM
uh i wanted to avoid partition
@kfmfe04:my ubuntu keeps crashing in virtual box
but the computer is good enough
 
very odd - maybe vbox is less mature in Windows than it is in OSX?!?
 
isn't 1GB of RAM and 32GB of HD enough for Ubuntu alone?
i can give it more though
 
are you using a recent release of vbox? is the install failing or what?
vbox has been rock-solid for me for about a couple years now
 
no no the install is fine
 
user457812
Maybe drop by Superuser and ask about it?
 
7:54 AM
it would certainly make your KDE development go more smoothly in vbox
 
all this brings to my first question : any other (window based) c++ open Source project
i will try KDE also though
Ok let me ask a more programming question
Are memset and using a for loop for initialising array widely different?
 
if it is POD and one contiguous chunk of data, memset will be faster
however, if you have an array of objects, then memset won't work
 
std::fill works for anything.
 
cool, i will remember that
@RMartinhoFernandes:what does your gravatr signify?
 
It's Robbie the Robot.
A character from the classic sci-fi film Forbidden Planet.
 
8:01 AM
don't know who/what is that.
never ha-pvfev mind
 
hehe, Robby the Robot certainly wouldn't have any problems with the Uncanny Valley

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley

RtR is CLASSIC
like an archetype of robots 8^)
 
Note to self: there is no boots::optional.
 
sbi
@Als I am very sorry to hear this. I had lost both of my grandmothers within half a year a while ago, and hence have an idea how sad you might feel.
@RMartinhoFernandes Depending on the weather, boots might well be optional.
@RMartinhoFernandes Hey, don't spoil! I just started on Ender's Game yesterday!
@Als There's been a discussion about this a few days ago, starting with a lengthy speech of mine, because I was sick being the only one reducing the growing owner list and taking all the heat for it. If you look for when I dropped the word "owners" recently, I'm sure you'll find this. The rules we set regarding ownership have been laid down in the newbie hints.
 
@sbi Oh, I'm sorry. I had no idea.
Don't worry, I didn't spoil the big thing.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Of course you don't! Robots have no imagination. How should they have ideas?
 
8:08 AM
@sbi:eagles can have feelings. The eagle nebulae is feeling sorry.
 
sbi
@VinayakGarg I have no idea what that is supposed to even mean.
 
user457812
People get mad over reducing the owners list? O_o
 
user457812
I'm assuming that means people who were on the list. Seems silly, since it doesn't affect their ability to chat as usual.
 
If anyone here writes a book, please don't reference diagrams several pages back. And if you must, at least provide a page number
 
sbi
@nil Once you've had a taste of ownership...
Anyway, my teenage daughter will today, after 2.5 happy weeks, escort what she thinks is the love of her life back to the airport. Starting with tomorrow, it's back to daily Skyping. So I will probably spend the weekend trying to prevent her from falling into depression. :( (I'm sure her mother deliberately set it up so that she's with me this weekend. Suits her.)
Also, after giving Oblivion to her brother (I saw it for €7 and simply couldn't resist buying it), the two of us spent last night trying to resurrect my desktop PC — to no avail. It seems it's a dead parrot. Damn. Well, since I could hardly give him an exciting game without also giving him a chance to play it, I'll probably have to surrender my laptop to him for most of the weekend. :(
IOW: You will likely see very little of me this weekend.
 
user457812
8:16 AM
Fun times.
 
user457812
I think I'm just glad 2011 is over, though nothing really changed despite the new calendar.
 
8:44 AM
@nil:Is that your owl?
 
user457812
No. I only have eleven parrots, no owls.
 
Don't you think 'tuple' are redundent. Any distinct use for tuple?
 
user457812
They work well for stuff like KV pairs.
 
Tuples as in C++ tuples, or tuples in general?
 
c++11
hehe i mixed text and binary data in a file. is it uncommon?
 
user457812
8:54 AM
Isn't it all binary anyway?
 
i mean i first outputed three strings and then ~20 ints
not as a struct
 
user457812
9:13 AM
I don't follow, but whatever.
 
user457812
Currently cursing the W3C and whoever else influences HTML5 junk
 
9:24 AM
@nil HTML5 mostly originated with one person within Opera (IIRC)
 
user457812
Well, whoever it is that decided rel="footnote" is bad must perish.
 
I almost posted a question about the fastest way to double a number in C++.
 
user457812
O_o
 
It's OK, I managed to stop myself.
:)
 
user457812
Well, think I'll wind my watch then go to sleep before I get the great idea to start another project
 
9:45 AM
@AlfPSteinbach static_cast< double >( number )
Or for a literal, just add a decimal point at the end, which is quite "fast"
 
@Potatoswatter But what if number is a long double? Then you're halving it!
 
@Pubby It's really more like 4/5ths
Why is the badge called C++0x? Are we basically starting from scratch at the point in time the C++11 tag became the primary one?
 

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