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4:00 PM
@Xaade don't be silly :P
 
It's a terrible Java code.
 
@FredOverflow oh I"m sorry, my German is far from perfect
@CatPlusPlus what's so terrible about it?
 
@CatPlusPlus You mean terrible (Java code) or (terrible Java) code? ;-)
 
Let me guess, the Java.
 
@FredOverflow How can you tell that's plural????
 
4:00 PM
@FredOverflow Both.
 
@Xaade Because I'm German?
 
@TonyTheTiger It's mine and it's in Java.
 
gasp
 
@Xaade the n at the end makes it plural
Nachbar is neighbour
 
Ah... n
 
4:01 PM
and Nachbarn = Neighbours
 
@CatPlusPlus How is my code yours?
 
So, the German "n" is the American "s"
sachbars
 
sometimes
 
@FredOverflow I was talking about my code, not your code.
 
it depends on the word I think
German grammar is notorious for being difficult :P
 
4:02 PM
Fair enough.
 
@CatPlusPlus Ah, okay. Can we see it? :)
 
We have s for plural, but also -ren, and -es, and sometimes we just deform the word. Gooses just wasn't good enough for some idiot.
 
okay, so implementing this Dijkstra's algo I should prob not attempt to use my own graph class, but rather use a priority queue, if C++ or boost has one somewhere
right?
 
@Xaade There are also many German words were singular and plural are identical. For example, "Becher" means both "cup" and "cups".
 
Thou can't.... say gooseses with thy lispses, so thy comest up with geese.
 
@Xaade Geese, yes, we have words in Dutch that change entirely on making it plural too
 
@TonyTheTiger Well, you need a graph class that represents the actual graph...
 
It's of course not OOP, because it uses static methods and not 15 interfaces, 22 managers and 91 factories.
 
@FredOverflow oh
 
Holy crap, you guys.
10 is always equal to its hosting base's radix.
 
4:04 PM
@FredOverflow Like "sheep".....
 
Why am I just realizing this now?
That's awesome.
 
@CatPlusPlus Doesn't look so terrible at first...?
 
@FredOverflow Don't tell me I can write good Java code.
 
English: How many sheep are there. There is one sheep.
Innercity: Those sheep be sheepin' all up in this sheepy hood.
 
@CatPlusPlus That's how it always starts.
In a week, you'll be back here preaching the singleton pattern and bragging about your latest factory class.
 
4:05 PM
If every Java program needs a static method to be able to start, static can't be that bad... unless Java is already bad to begin with ;-)
 
Mystery solved.
 
@Maxpm Looking forward to the Singleton Factory Singleton discussion...
 
@FredOverflow Java starts with a singleton gaspeded
 
static and Singleton are not the same thing.
 
Yeah. static has a point.
 
4:06 PM
Yeah, static is poor man's free function.
 
Which is why I have a problem with "pure" languages in general.
 
@CatPlusPlus Free function would be a subset of static.
 
@Maxpm I realized this about 20 years ago :)
 
Static is a free function shoehorned into a class.
 
@CatPlusPlus Unless the class has a private static member that the static method uses.
 
4:08 PM
It's simply not possible in practice to have a purely-OO or purely-functional language. See: stackoverflow.com/questions/7267760/…
 
Then it's more free functions shoehorned into a class.
 
@Maxpm Java is not pure OOP. Or did you mean Java is pure crap? :)
2
 
this is what I'm not sure about?
 
@Maxpm Purely function is pretty possible.
 
You can make purely functional language, but it still needs some way to be not-so-pure to interact with the world.
 
4:09 PM
@CatPlusPlus Not really
 
@TonyTheTiger Sure, an edge can either reference two nodes, or you could have a list of pointers to neighbors inside every node.
 
You make the command line the argument list for the main method.
 
Then you don't need an edge class at all.
 
Rob
@Maxpm The base is written as 10 in any numeral system
 
@Maxpm Haskell is purely functional, and people write real world applications in it.
 
4:10 PM
@FredOverflow and neighbours being defined as each node connected with an edge to that particular node?
 
It just seems silly, to me. Forcing yourself into weird workarounds or compromises just because you wanted the language to be "pure" on a matter of principle.
 
@TonyTheTiger yes
 
@Rob Then I'm going to use base 10 to do all my arithmetic now.
 
oh cool thx
 
@Maxpm Yes, but Haskell's purity has real benefits. The type system controls the side effects, which I find very useful.
 
Rob
4:10 PM
@Xaade: Huh?
 
@Maxpm No, "pure" is a an application matter.
 
@Rob Exactly.
@Xaade What do you mean?
 
@Maxpm If every base is 10 in it's number system, then you have no clue what I just said.
 
@Xaade Yes, I do...?
 
@Xaade I once told my teacher that the notation "value_base" was useless, because you did not know in which base the base itself was written down, so in theory, you would end up with an infinite list of bases :)
 
4:12 PM
Wait, I think we're replying to different messages here.
 
@Fred doesn't tell me he's speaking in "the language".
 
This is why I'm an advocate of flowchart-based chat.
 
0
Q: Trimming down freebsd

hirapannaI am trying to trim down FreeBSD to understand/learn how things work. I have a few questions if someone can help me with that: 1) when we say kernel, can I separate code wise from the rest of the FreeBSD code? What I mean is, I want to know what all files/dirs come under kernel. 2) I know a bo...

this guy sounds adventurous
 
Rob
@Xaade Not a "base 10" numbering system. A radix of 10.
 
4:13 PM
@FredOverflow What about 123_ten?
Not ambiguous is it?
 
Every base is base 10. Case closed. Let's get on with things.
 
Reply to a message, and your bubble points to it. Bubbles are sized/colored according to their activity and time.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes ten is not a number
 
@Rob but in order for you to determine what that means, everyone has to agree to represent radixis in the same number system (base 10)
 
@Xaade exactly, but 10 could also mean 2 or 16, depending on the base ;-)
 
4:14 PM
@FredOverflow It's a valid representation of a number.
It's the English representation.
 
It's a word that corresponds to a number.
 
So to say that every base in its number system is 10 without context, is useless.
 
1010, if I'm not mistaken.
 
@Xaade Quite contrary, I would argue that it's the basic rule of base-based numbers notations :) If 2 in base 2 weren't 10, things would fall apart.
 
Rob
@Xaade, not at all
^
 
Als
4:16 PM
What did i miss?
 
Rob
Ambiguity.
 
Als
Good stuff?
 
Rob
Ambiguous stuff.
 
Not really.
Pedantic discussions.
 
4:16 PM
But I think it's fair to say that most human beings would intuitively assume bases written down in the system that they're used to, that is, the system using the digits 0 to 9.
 
Rob
nod
 
In fact, maybe we should write "9+1" instead of 10, because "9+1" is not ambiguous.
 
Als
uh Pedantic eh, I guess I am glad I was away
 
I'm advocating colorful, bubbly flowcharts to communicate. The chat in general is discussing how the radix is always 10.
 
@Maxpm nice summary :)
 
Als
4:17 PM
@FredOverflow: Why "9+1" and not "5+5"?
 
I speak in mehrdeutig
 
Als
@Xaade: wtf is that?
 
@Als That would also be fine, but I find it easier to add 1 in general :)
 
We're all pedants, so what other types of discussions do you expect here?
 
@FredOverflow That's another good solution.
 
Rob
4:18 PM
This is just getting too pedantic now.
 
Yes, it is.
Aw, I'm enjoying it.
 
@Rob Blasphemy. There's no such thing as "too pedantic".
 
@Als because what would you do about base 5: "2 + 3".
 
knuth discussed how to use mixed radix systems with negative radix
 
Rob
lol.
 
4:18 PM
Long live pedents
if you can't stand it, gtfo
 
@AlfPSteinbach How does that even work?
 
i could not figure out what to use it for
 
To mess with people's heads!
 
Als
@Xaade: what would you do with "9+1" ?
 
that's one thing to do yes
 
4:19 PM
Put it on a T-shirt somehow.
 
@Maxpm see Knuth, "The Art of Computer Programming", vol. something, page uh where
 
A negative base (or negative radix) may be used to construct a non-standard positional numeral system. Like other place-value systems, each position holds multiples of the appropriate power of the system's base; but that base is negative—that is to say, the base \scriptstyle b is equal to \scriptstyle -r for some natural number \scriptstyle r (r ≥ 2). Negative-base systems can accommodate all the same numbers as standard place-value systems, but both positive and negative numbers are represented without the use of a minus sign (or, in computer representation, a sign bit); this advantage i...
 
If pedantry were to be absolution, then nothing could be communicated. Every word has a flaw of requiring interpretation.
 
Does anyone here possess "The Art Of Computer Programming", at least in part?
 
Als
4:19 PM
non
 
Rob
Yes, but not at my desk
 
I was always wondering if I should buy it, but I figured I would probably just skim through it and then let it collect dust.
 
My brain blew up around the third parenthetical statement.
 
@FredOverflow I have the full set :)
 
4:20 PM
Mmh, I wish I had it. Knuth is a bit of an idol for me.
 
Rob
Why were we talking about 9+1 and 5+5?
 
@TonyTheTiger How much of it have you read?
 
I have Optimal Prepaging and Font Caching autographed. xD
 
@FredOverflow mine is collecting dust, mostly
 
@Rob How to represent base 10 without ambiguity.
 
4:20 PM
@Rob Because 9+1 is unambiguously the number of human fingers, whereas 10 could mean anything, depending on the base.
 
Rob
Alright, I thought we were still talking about the number 10.
 
Als
@Rob: You could also talk about "8 + 2"
 
@Rob which 10? ;-)
 
@Xaade decimal?
 
Als
Its freedom of pedantic speech here.
 
Rob
4:20 PM
So it actually introduces MORE ambiguity.
 
@FredOverflow I've just looked through it, haven't read much. I bought it for if ever the time came when I am smart enough to even understand one line of it
 
@Rob No, it doesn't.
 
Programming has changed me. I don't trust anything anymore. Especially not computers, and ESPECIALLY not users.
4
 
9+1 can't be another number.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes another other? Are you a LOST fan by chance? :)
 
4:21 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes no, it's another dimension :P
 
@FredOverflow there are some interesting historical facts. like in first edition he drew trees with root down, while in second they had root up (now conventional). also, he got some criticism for his first explanation of "reel time" -- as applying to sorting on magnetic tape.
 
Rob
Okay, not more ambiguity... but less clarity.
 
1 + 1 is base 2(r10), or base 10. 2 + 1 is base 3(r10), or base 10.
 
Rob
I'd rather say 10b2, or 10b10
 
@FredOverflow Well, I was. Until some point.
 
Rob
4:22 PM
Or subscript in written notation
 
Als
@Xaade: You wily pedant fox! Whoa!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Which season ruined it for you?
 
@Rob but then you have to qualify b10 as being r10.
 
@FredOverflow I gave up watching at the end of the third I think (the one that ends with the island moving for the first time).
 
@FredOverflow The one where I finally realized the writers were getting their material by skimming forums that post suspicions about the last episode.
 
Rob
4:23 PM
rofl
I stopped watching midway through season 2
 
I don't watch LOST, cause I'd get lost probably
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Time travel killed LOST for me. It was just too stupid. And the whole "Are they already dead or not?" thing carried on for far too long. And the finale sucked.
 
Als
@FredOverflow: I have seen the LOST, especially the girl was nice :P
 
@FredOverflow We are in agreement.
 
You guys should give Homestuck a shot.
 
Rob
4:24 PM
Wow, they added time travel and moving islands?
 
@Als which girl?
 
I'd love to see your reactions.
 
@Als ohhh girls
 
The last episode reveals that the entire thing is one big.... kzzt Snake? SNAKE...????!!!!!!! TIME PARADOX
 
Als
This girl
 
4:24 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I found the computer in LOST very funny, where they had to enter the numbers. Who on earth would build such an idiotic system? :)
 
Als
 
@FredOverflow idiots obviously
 
@FredOverflow Microsoft Office?
 
Als
Evangeline Lily
 
@Als nay bad at all
 
4:25 PM
Also, couldn't they just have written a batch file instead of entering the numbers manually? Fools.
 
No one understood my reference.
 
@Xaade No, it was text only.
 
@FredOverflow use MS Excel for numbers
 
@FredOverflow Notepad.
 
@Als She decided to quit acting after Lost, IIRC.
 
4:26 PM
I don't know why anyone would be surprised at the notion of a stack object living on the heap.
 
brainfuck
 
@Xaade no GUI
 
@FredOverflow Cause the director on Lost taught her how not to act.
 
The object is a data structure like any other. It has nothing to do with the stack.
 
@Maxpm cause it's confusing
 
Rob
4:26 PM
@FredOverflow Did they ever explain the computer system?
 
@Maxpm Well, if one doesn't know the difference between "a stack" and "the stack"...
 
@FredOverflow VIM.
 
@FredOverflow The system was idiotic because it was meant as some kind of behavioural experiment, wasn't it?
 
@Rob Honestly, I can't remember... so I guess not.
 
@FredOverflow *Shrug* Why wouldn't they? I would explain the stack as a stack.
 
4:27 PM
so when you guys are watching a movie with family and they have some techie computer stuff going on, do you feel like nerd when you understand it and your family hasn't a clue?
 
@Rob They explained everything. Except the important parts.
 
Rob
lol, I didn't think so. When I saw it, the explanation was
"Bad stuff might happen if you don't enter the numbers"
 
@RMartinhoFernandes No, it was meant to take time because they didn't have enough plot for the episode. Everything else is merely circumstantial.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Ah, that might have been it... but it was real, wasn't it? I mean once they stopped entering the numbers, the sky turned purple or something stupid like that.
 
@FredOverflow Yeah.
 
Rob
4:28 PM
o_O?
 
@TonyTheTiger It bugs me when they use buzzwords or say something that doesn't quite make sense, because nobody will listen to me when I correct them. "No, Max, be quiet! It's just a movie!"
 
@Maxpm heh lol
 
@TonyTheTiger I usually think "Computers don't work like that, who the hell buys into this crap?" and just shut my mouth and not ruin the fun for everyone.
 
I don't really bother with that.
 
The notion of movie hackers is a double-edged sword.
 
4:29 PM
@FredOverflow I think the whole LOST thing is one big experiment on the pseudoscience of collective consciousness. If there's no one to observe whether they exist, then they don't exist. And therefore anything "they" observe happening has no actual impact on reality, whether it appears to or not.
 
On one hand, people don't really understand how it works and blame hackers for everything.
On the other hand, I can scare the shit out of people by opening a console window.
 
@FredOverflow oh good way of thinking :)
 
@Xaade I think the LOST series itself was an experiment. How much crap can we feed to the fanboys without them complaining about how ridiculous everything has become?
 
@Maxpm console windows scare people?
lol
 
@TonyTheTiger More like impress or intimidate.
 
4:30 PM
I used to read whylostsucks regularly during Season 6. Was way more fun than watching Lost.
 
More than an SVN check-in deserves, anyway.
FEAR MY BRANCH MERGES.
I SHALL SMITE THY TREE CONFLICTS.
 
I think @Maxpm should get off whatever he is high on ;)
 
@Maxpm In the good old DOS days, I used to insert prompt $p$gformat c: into peoples' autoexec.bat files. Most of them got pretty scared :)
 
4:32 PM
@FredOverflow No, I think it was an experiment to see how convoluted the story could get with the simple explanation of (we'll expose all the truths and it will all fit together later), just to see how long it took for people to realize that it is no longer mathematically possible to connect all the concurrent paradoxes in a timeframe of a person's life.
 
@Xaade I'm quite surprised LOST didn't spawn any spinoffs. There would have been enough "potential".
 
I've never watched LOST, so all this talk about it, is meaningless to me :(
 
Quick poll: What's your editing font of choice? I like Inconsolata-dz.
 
@TonyTheTiger Hint: don't bother watching.
 
I won't
 
4:34 PM
Neither have I, TBH.
 
@TonyTheTiger LOST is like the Java of TV series. Full of promises, but in the end, it's just a major disappointment.
 
@FredOverflow The disappointment comes long before the end.
 
@Maxpm I have no idea, let me see what Notepad++ uses...
 
@FredOverflow We're just relentless with the Java-bashing here, aren't we?
 
Comic Sans!
 
4:35 PM
@Maxpm Actually, I was just bashing LOST :)
 
@FredOverflow Java's shittiness is a given, then.
 
@FredOverflow Yeah, you could spinoff and do the time before the crash-landers with that experimental group, and just repeat the few episodes where the lost characters show up.
 
@Maxpm Urgh, it uses Courier New by default. Just switched to Consolas.
 
Rob
@FredOverflow What's the $ in a DOS batch script?
I like Deja Vu Sans Mono
 
@Rob $p stands for the current path, $g stands for the > symbol.
 
4:37 PM
@FredOverflow That's what I use, too. I was joking about the Comic Sans, obviously.
 
@FredOverflow Urgh, indeed. To think I used to like Courier.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Actually, I just tried Comic Sans, and it's note as terrible as I had anticipated :)
 
Rob
@FredOverflow rofl, nice.
 
e_e
I think I'll set my friends' Xcode fonts to Comic Sans when school starts.
 
@FredOverflow Hmm, you're right. I was expecting much more awfulness.
Ok, Times New Roman, anyone?
 
4:39 PM
I'm a little disappointed that Chromium doesn't support <blink>. There's an extension for it, but it never worked for me.
Pfft.
 
@Maxpm That's a feature!
 
You're editing code, not a newspaper.
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm tempted to submit it as a bug report.
 
It's a feature.
 
It's a bugture!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes it's actually quite nice :)
 
@FredOverflow It's till Comic Sans. There's always an inherent awfulness. But I wasn't expecting a modicum of readability.
 
I don't really get what's so wrong about Comic Sans.
 
Rob
It's fugly. :P
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I have already gotten sick of Comic Sans after two minutes, back to Consolas it is :)
 
Rob
4:42 PM
@FredOverflow Tried DejaVu Sans Mono?
 
@CatPlusPlus By itself, not much. It's just that there's no appropriate use for it unless you're actually making a comic, in which case there are better-looking fonts to use, anyway.
 
That's quite pretty.
 
The "better-looking" part is what I don't get. It's readable, what else is there to expect from a fucking font?
 
@CatPlusPlus Not terribly related, but have you watched this? :)
 
4:44 PM
"Powerpointless."
Yeah, that's a good video.
*Nod nod*
 
@CatPlusPlus In programming, I like fonts where I can distinguish 1 and l easily.
Other than that, I don't really care.
 
o and 0 likewise
 
Is &p[past_the_end] allowed in C++ or is that just a C thing?
Assuming an array/pointer, not an overloaded operator[].
 
Rob
@Maxpm Yea I replaced Consolas with that about a year ago, haven't looked back
 
@FredOverflow Well, yeah, that's the readability part. Comic Sans is not monospaced, so I wouldn't even start to consider it for code.
But other than code? It's just crazy typographer font masturbating stuff.
 
Rob
4:46 PM
Hahaha
I should quote that to my graphic designer roommate, he'll go batshit.
 
@LucDanton We have a question on that topic...
8
Q: May I take the address of the one-past-the-end element of an array?

FredOverflow Possible Duplicate: Take the address of a one-past-the-end array element via subscript: legal by the C++ Standard or not? int array[10]; int* a = array + 10; // well-defined int* b = &array[10]; // not sure... Is the last line valid or not?

 
Send pics.
 
Rob
lol.
 
I only use two fonts: no-serifs proportional (non-code), and no-serifs monospaced (code).
 
I liked the C64 font quite a lot back in the days. Good old 8x8 bitmap fonts :)
 
4:48 PM
@FredOverflow I reward your promptness with an answer of my own to one of your question :)
 
@FredOverflow How elegant.
 
Notice the 911 part of 38911 basic bytes free? Has that ever spawned a C64 terrorist conspiracy theory?
 
I'm really tempted to make a Wikipedia theme for Tumblr.
I wonder if one exists.
 
@LucDanton The question is closed, if I'm not mistaken.
 
I know there's a Twitter one...
 
4:49 PM
@FredOverflow Not that one :)
 
@LucDanton Ah okay, so which one? :)
 
Don't you get a notification? I must confess I have yet to post an SO question.
12
Q: May I treat a 2D array as a contiguous 1D array?

FredOverflowConsider the following code: int a[25][80]; a[0][1234] = 56; int* p = &a[0][0]; p[1234] = 56; Does the second line invoke undefined behavior? How about the fourth line?

 
@Maxpm There probably isn't, because getting usable HTML and CSS out of MediaWiki is so painful, nobody could endure through the entire procedure.
 
@CatPlusPlus Really? I've never checked out the source.
I think the most horrifying "View source" experience for me was Google.
I actually recoiled.
 
Everything in and around MediaWiki is basically shit.
 
4:52 PM
Arg, how do you hotlink an image?
 
Just post it.
 
Remove the query part.
 
Yeah, thought that might have something to do with it.
 
Rob
@Maxpm Wow, they squeezed every bit of whitespace possible out of that, didn't they?
 
Oneboxing is not clever enough to recognise images otherwise.
 
4:53 PM
@LucDanton I'm too lazy to switch to another tab and reload the SO page ;)
 
Google preprocesses all of its JS.
 
@Rob Indeed.
 
So HTML probably too. It saves some bandwidth when you're talking to clients with broken or missing gzip.
In case of Google every byte saved is probably making some terabytes of difference.
 
Rob
Pretty much.
 
Mmh.
 
4:55 PM
MediaWiki solution to that is to kill the appserver before it even sends anything to the client.
And then put 100 Squid caches in front of it.
 
Ugh, squids.
 
Squids?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes reminds me of that movie... Sphere
 
Squids remind me of octopi, and then of Elder Gods.
 

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