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5:01 AM
LOL. What is the difference between import and include directive? I really don't see the difference. LOL @ the "Ew import".
 
Xeo
#import is not C++
 
5:54 AM
@JohnWong A huge one. import is not a copy-paste of a textual source.
 
@DeadMG Does C++ really need more language features?
 
6:14 AM
@FredOverflow need, probably not. A more interesting question is whether it can benefit from more language features
2
 
Getting rid of the include system is definitely a benefit.
2
 
6:32 AM
Oh, different import...
 
morning
 
G'day.
 
Xeo
Ohayô o/
 
Asked my first question on Meta today.
 
6:43 AM
@Johnsyweb The only meta I'm interested in is meta programming.
 
And it hasn't been closed "as not a real question", which is a bonus :-)
 
sbi
I am really sick of this "You can perform this action again in 1 seconds." Does it really matter whether a 50k stars two messages within a second?
@Johnsyweb Oh no. Now you're a fallen angel, too. Welcome to the club^Wmadhouse.
@Johnsyweb Then you might get saved, still!
 
@sbi Fastest mouse-click in the west?
@sbi I think I am long past redemption.
Happily Jeff Atwood thinks I am wrong :-)
 
sbi
@Johnsyweb Well, as seen from you, even I'm in the west. I give you that.
@Johnsyweb Indeed. It seems it is open again.
 
@sbi Mine was never closed. Just the one it refers to. Which remains so.
 
sbi
6:58 AM
@Johnsyweb In my book, if Jeff thinks you're wrong, that makes me like you instantly.
 
:-D
 
sbi
@Johnsyweb OMG. IRTA "it has been closed". Sorry.
 
@sbi :)
 
@sbi E_NO_COFFEE ?
 
sbi
Hi @Tony. When did you have your last cigarette?
 
7:00 AM
@sbi On saturday afternoon
 
Xeo
Guys, could you please stop starring chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/819268#819268 ? If not, I might really have to do it!
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Gosh! I'm proud of you, boy! :)
 
@sbi hehe :) Thanks, but we'll have to see if I last :P
 
@TonyTheTiger Good job!
 
Xeo
F***!
 
7:01 AM
@Xeo That's a good way to ask for more stars.
 
It does get easier. I promise you.
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger You will!
@Xeo When you ask so nicely. :b
 
@sbi You have more trust in me, then I do, lol
 
Xeo
If people get praised for stopping to smoke, I should get praised for never smoking in the first place!
 
@Xeo please do it! :)
 
sbi
7:02 AM
@TonyTheTiger No, I'm just trying to mess with your head.
 
@Xeo Nice job, not ever falling for it :)
 
@AProgrammer Indeed. [Click]
 
@sbi oh thanks, you succeeded, and I attribute the early hour of the morning to this
 
sbi
@Xeo Not by me. No matter how old you are, I am older, and I bet I smoked not half a ciggy more than you.
 
@sbi you never were tempted by a cigarette?
 
sbi
7:04 AM
@TonyTheTiger Early hour? It's 9am here. I got up 3hrs ago. It's high time you kids grew up and learn to live a decent life.
@TonyTheTiger I never said I wasn't tempted.
 
@sbi well, anything before 10 is early... :P
@sbi oh I see....
 
@TonyTheTiger I was never tempted. Tobaco smoke is at best a nuisance for me, at worse it makes me ill to the point I must leave the room.
 
@AProgrammer oh gosh, the thought of tobacco makes me wish I had a ciggy right now :)
 
I used to think 10am was early. Until Junior came along. Now 7am is a lie-in!
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Then let's talk about something else. Um. How about grass? :)
 
7:08 AM
...or C++?
Nah! That'll never work!
 
sbi
@Johnsyweb Spoilsport!
 
Sorry.
 
@sbi oh, you're so evil :P
how about ***?
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Oh boy. Do you really have to bring up sex every single day you hang out here? And before 10am, that is?
 
Xeo
@sbi He didn't. You did. Dirty old man.
 
7:13 AM
hy all
hows c++ sex going on ?
 
@sbi I brought up three stars.... all the rest was another's interpretation of these stars....
lol :)
 
sbi
@Xeo Yeah, of course, and when people write "f#!k", they're not fucking around. Sure, little girl, keep believing in pink bunnies.
@TonyTheTiger What could we do but interpret it that way with your record here?
 
@sbi hahahah Pink bunnies eh :)
 
Xeo
@sbi What, are you telling me there are no pink bunnies?!
 
@sbi hahah :) :P)
 
sbi
7:15 AM
God, and I think @Miss must have an app watching this space for "sex" to appear, in order to pop right in the moment someone drops it.
2
 
Xeo
lol
Didn't he want to delete the account?
 
sbi
@Xeo No, I told you you should keep believing in them. That's kind of the, erm, opposite, you know? Female logic keeps escaping me, really.
 
female logic ... whats female logic ? lol
anyways what about c++ sex ...
 
sbi
@Xeo Do you think just because you're referring to @Miss as "he" we would believe your lie that you're male?
 
ahh why are you thinking as a male ?
a female can't talk about sex.. strange ...
 
Xeo
7:18 AM
Ahhh, it'll be the best if I go back to ignoring him/her/it...
 
btw, i were talking about c++ sex .. ok not human sex ,,,
 
Oh... I thought it was C++*-0x*.
 
@xeo yes sure ///
 
sbi
@Miss Yeah, just about pink bunnies. @Miss, I have more kids than you might have had lovers, and I guess I just know females better than you.
@Johnsyweb Ugh, s0x stink.
 
@xeo i were not interested to come here.. . i jsut come to see @nils thats it ...
 
sbi
7:20 AM
@Xeo Wow. "It". I'm afraid that will stick. (Fits you just as well, BTW.)
@Miss He's the only one left you hadn't scared away?
 
anywas , let me go out from here,.. otherwise,.. you people will say me everything that whatelse you all want to say.. thats it good bye c++ only from here ...
 
sbi
@Miss Internal Parser Error.
 
English parse fail
 
good bye ~
 
Xeo
This is interesting. MSVC spews me an error with just this being my main.cpp
> error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier 'sig'
 
7:24 AM
@Miss See ya!
 
well one thing i must have to say...
 
Xeo
> src\main.cpp(14) : see reference to class template instantiation 'lambda_result<L>' being compiled
 
People still use MSVC?
 
@Johnsyweb yep some of us do
 
Xeo
"Some"?
 
7:27 AM
Sorry to hear that.
 
Xeo
wtf
 
sbi
@Johnsyweb What fluffy place do you live at?
 
@Johnsyweb lol
 
Gcc & SunPRO.
 
msvc is a pretty decent compiler these days
 
7:32 AM
@Johnsyweb Do you have a similar feeling as mine: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/10?m=818219#818219
 
To be fair I haven't done any Windows programming in 5 years.
@AProgrammer Yes. Oracle are killing Solaris.
 
That's quite an important qualification. If I were to compare MSVC2010 to a 5-year-old version of GCC, I think I'd say "People still use GCC?" as well
 
@Johnsyweb I've never made any Windows programming. I did some DOS programming a little less than 20 years ago.
 
@jalf Sadly, some people still use gcc-3!
 
I know
my workplace, for one ;)
well, since I arrived they've been preparing to switch to 4.4. But atm they're still on 3.4 :)
 
7:34 AM
@jalf Same. 3.4.3. Although my stuff builds with newer versions and on other OSes.
 
you people should not concerne with other gender either its male or female ... we are here just for c++ problems and discussion...
 
@Miss Isn't that "gender"?
@Miss You forgot "pedantry" ;-)
 
@johnsyweb thanks
 
Got to go. Bye for now.
 
I hope next time i will not listen from you people that "@Miss Are you male or female ..?"
got to fo bye forever ...
 
7:43 AM
how can there be a next time, if it's "bye forever"?
also @miss, I think @sbi was joking about @Xeo's gender.
 
sbi
@jalf I'm not joking about @Xeo's sex. It might indeed be male. How would we know?
(Oh, I like that "it". Fits you so well, @Xeo.)
 
Fine, @sbi is deadly serious about @Xeo's gender. Better?
 
@sbi, TSA style security check.
 
Xeo
Haaa, this is getting tedious... @Miss, if you want to leave, just do so and don't announce it over and over again.
2
 
sbi
@AProgrammer Huh?
 
7:46 AM
But that would give us the sex and not the gender.
At least if I understand the difference.
 
Xeo
@sbi How did you get to that?!
 
sbi
@Xeo Uh, I dunno. Someone here applied it to some person we're not sure it's male or female. Damned if I remember who...
 
Their procedures are known to be a little on the invasive side.
 
Xeo
@sbi Ugh...
 
sbi
7:48 AM
@AProgrammer Ah, now I get it. Well, @Xeo never let anyone of us near it, so it's not been possible. :) (You aren't subjected to TSA unless you want to fly, you know.)
 
oh god, I don't even want to know what it means that some of our functions have a signature of the form foo* bar(MAYBEVOID)
 
Xeo
@jalf wtf
 
@jalf makes no sense to me?
 
This chat's ignore feature makes me appreciate the "Ignorance is bliss" quote.
 
sbi
@jalf You name your types foo and your functions bar? :)
 
8:00 AM
@sbi funny ;)
 
@jalf may be ..but. this chat room is not used for only c++ problems.
 
sbi
38 mins ago, by Miss
good bye ~
 
@sbi yes i am not interested in this room.. i was just replying to @jalf .. not talking with any person in this room ...
ok
 
So I'm not a person in this room? :(
2
 
@jalf Old C code dating back to the K&R C to ANSI C transition?
 
8:03 AM
@alf heheh no you are .. i meant ... i am not talking about anyone except you ..
 
sbi
@Miss Yes, you do. This is a public chat room. Everyone with one upvote on SO can join, and the whole of the world can read here. Whatever you say here, you say to the whole world. We're all listening. (Well, except for those who ignore you, that is.)
 
@AProgrammer you mean MAYBEVOID is a macro or something which evaluates to nothing or to void depending on platform/compiler/something? Yeah, could be
luckily, I'm not responsible for actually maintaining (or understanding) this code
just came across it while working on something else
 
@jalf Right.
 
8:24 AM
oh, the SO statusbar shows flagged posts too now?
anyone know what we're supposed to do with them?
ah nm, they clarified that too :o
how convenient
 
sbi
@jalf What are you referring to?
 
there's a second colored box now, next to the "unapproved edits" one
or there was, a moment ago :o
 
sbi
@jalf Ah. It might only show when there actually is some flagged post.
 
Xeo
8:58 AM
I think I should stop explaining the details in my answers... I always take so long writing them that I get no share of the upvotes. :<
 
did know we had Algotithm's too ?? lulz
 
@Xeo yeah, you kind of need to write the actual answer first, and then edit in the detailed explanation
 
@sbi In my experience there's always some flagged post.
People flag everything.
"Oh, I disagree. Flag", "Oh, that guy has a typo. Flag", "Oh, that guy told the truth about someone's complete and utter ignorance. Flag"
41 mins ago, by jalf
oh, the SO statusbar shows flagged posts too now?
WTF?
 
Xeo
@jalf :|
 
This will be annoying.
 
sbi
9:08 AM
@MartinhoFernandes Nevertheless, I can't see an icon at the top of the SO window, although I do see flagged posts at stackoverflow.com/tools/flagged.
 
@sbi, same for me.
 
well, it was there before! :D
either that, or I was imagining things :|
 
Mine is gone too.
 
sbi
@jalf Or they made you a moderator for 90secs.
 
I saw it too.
But now it's gone.
I'm glad :)
Anyone working on that FAQ thing about C++ compilation?
I'd like to give it a shot.
 
sbi
9:15 AM
@MartinhoFernandes Go for it! If anyone else planned on doing it (@Xeo seemed to, the way he was fishing for stars here this morning), it's their fault for waiting so long. :)
 
yeah don't worry, we'll just yell at you and then edit whatever you write if we're not satisfied. ;)
 
@jalf Well, you're a penguin.
And an evil one for that.
 
penguins are people too!
and here we'd just established that I was a person :(
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Do you say that because Linus has such a bad temperament?
 
Huh, last I checked, no, they aren't.
 
9:27 AM
@sbi Er, no. Because he's a penguin.
 
lulz, "pengiuns are people too"... ask any biologist and he'll disagree with you!!!
 
Can't argue with SCIENCE.
 
Xeo
 
Yay! I'm free!
@CatPlusPlus linked to TVTropes and the Universe blocked it!
 
9:35 AM
To be fair, it's only an image hosted by it, not a link to the site itself. :P
 
It's dangerously close.
Posting such things without a warning should get you shot or something.
 
Xeo
Okay, I now have a little blue circle with a 2 in it next to my chat avatar. "new messages flagged as spam / offensive (in any room)"
 
There were two flags in PHP room, I think.
 
Xeo
3 now
 
9:42 AM
And someone flagged this one, too. :P
I wonder who.
Also, that page speaks truth, I do that all the time.
And some comics I even found through TVT.
 
Xeo
> You cannot counterflag your own message
:(
 
I guess this means either the message is removed quickly, or several people across the chat system will "wake up" three hours from now wondering what happened to them.
 
Damn Silents.
Oh, YouTube just started sending me emails about subscriptions. After I've checked the little box that I want updates once a week.
Of course, now it sends everything.
 
@Xeo I think that's the only XKCD where the picture links somewhere.
 
Xeo
9:46 AM
@MartinhoFernandes Omg. How evil, I never noticed that!
 
I don't think it was the only one.
Also, unrelated.
 
Xeo
Heh
Btw, if you directly link to the xkcd, the image also gets inlined and it gets the hover-message
 
@CatPlusPlus haven't got stuck in TV Tropes yet?
 
@TonyTheTiger I'm too tired to read.
 
@CatPlusPlus oh lulz, I'm trying to figure out this algorithm, but my brain is dead, so I'm failing :(
 
10:03 AM
I have a Java code to finish and a calculus test tomorrow.
 
ohhh calculus... interesting
 
10:22 AM
Hmm, cpp is the preprocessor, ld is the linker. What's the "real compiler" on GCC? cc1plus?
 
Well, it is the real compiler but you never invoke that directly.
And cpp is not being invoked as separate process these days either.
 
What errors are reported at the preprocessing stage? #errors? Something else?
 
In GCC, ## creating an invalid token.
 
Xeo
9
A: Is g++ both a c++ compiler and a linker?

XeoTaken from this little GCC guide: Based on the file extension that you gave your program, it selects the appropriate commands it needs to run to turn the source you gave it into the output file you specified. With a nice little flowchart of what GCC exactly does, depending on the file exten...

related. :)
 
@CatPlusPlus I may have linked that to a few questions. I may also have a copy of that particular XKCD in my cubical.
 
10:34 AM
@Xeo Great. I think I'll use that image in the FAQ.
Things seem heated up in the PHP room.
How do you Markdown small text?
 
@MartinhoFernandes Is GCC architecture really relevant to the C++ compilation in general? It is quite dated and not-so-good.
You could use <sub>.
 
It showcases the different steps: preprocessing, compilation, assembly, linkage. Even though I'm lumping compilation+assembly together.
 
@MartinhoFernandes why would you hang out in the PHP room?
 
They keep flagging stuff and offending each other. If you have 10k+ rep you get notifications.
It's a bit annoying.
 
Why are flags global, and not local to the room (for e.g. owners to act upon), I will never understand.
 
10:39 AM
I flagged it for you ;-)
/me Ducks down below the 10k watermark :-)
 
I refuse to deal with flags by PHP people, they're using PHP, I don't trust their judgement.
 
There are worse languages than PHP.
 
I disagree.
Multiply the suckage in PHP by its widespread use.
Go on, beat that.
 
It's really a dark swamp full of horrible languages, it's hard to tell which one is actually worse than another.
 
Like most languages, it's possible to write really sucky code. It's also possible to write very neat code.
 
10:41 AM
In PHP? Ummm... nope.
 
@MartinhoFernandes if it doesn't map 1-to-1 to the actual compilation stages, I suspect it'll confuse more than it clarifies things. Plus, it may make non-GCC users skip the answer, assuming it is irrelevant
 
Not to mention that assembly generation doesn't have to happen in the compilation stage.
 
of course, depends on exactly how you describe it all, but my gut feeling is that the answer would be better if you kept it compiler-neutral
 
Given some of the rubbish I see in C++ source files, sometimes I would be happier working on PHP.
 
10:42 AM
@jalf Good point. I'll try to stick by that.
 
Most modern compilers have LTCG/LTO, and can generate code when linking.
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Link-time code generation ftw
 
@Johnsyweb I'll take worst C++ over best PHP any day.
 
where did you guys learn all this compilation process stuff?
 
On... line. :P
 
10:44 AM
@CatPlusPlus I should send you some "C++" sometime.
 
Xeo
@TonyTheTiger Research to get more Rep on SO? :D
 
@Xeo epic :)
Repwhore just got a new meaning: Doing research just to get more rep on SO :)
2
 
Oh, I've seen bad C++. Bad C is worse. And the PHP is still worst.
 
@jalf Here's proof!
 
Xeo
10:46 AM
@TonyTheTiger No seriously, I learned so much stuff just because I wanted to refine my not-so-good answer.
 
@MartinhoFernandes oh gosh
@Xeo Cool :)
Impressed, I am
 
Compilers are cool, in any case.
And knowing how parsing works and how to use it is a really useful skill.
 
@CatPlusPlus hmmm perhaps you can point to some good resources to learn this?
 
since you know your way better around the interwebs then me
 
10:52 AM
@TonyTheTiger getting tired of linker errors, mainly. Motivated me to google it. It's not really rocket science
Each stage is pretty straightforward. There are just more explicit stages than in most languages
 
In most languages it's more like... one.
 
@MartinhoFernandes yup :)
 
Xeo
@MartinhoFernandes That's some heavy priced book
 
@Xeo yes it is. But I found it very good when I borrowed it from the library.
 
@MartinhoFernandes oh thanks :)
@jalf hmmm I got tired of linker errors before I even knew they existed... still don't understand the linker process necessarily :P
 
10:58 AM
Some ressources available on the web about compilers bourguet.org/v2/compilers
 
I wonder, does C# for example, need linking too?
 
@TonyTheTiger I don't really remember any definitive sources. LLVM tutorial has a rather simple to understand lexer and parser. Also, if you know Python, effbot.org/zone/tdop-index.htm
 

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