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9:00 PM
@JamesMcNellis I bet that the problem is that neither low nor high are valid arguments to decltype(), that he knows and is not interested in the answer but rather in whether others will detect it
 
sbi
@JamesMcNellis Well, just do as I do: stop answering him. That will leave him no chances to jump on you, and make him missing your valuable insights.
 
@sbi Well, I agree. I've deleted my answer to that question as well.
 
sbi
@JamesMcNellis He can't see deleted answers, can he?
 
sbi
Good.
 
9:02 PM
@sbi: thanks for the advice..
lol :)
 
sbi
@BlackBear Great!
 
every day's a learning day :D
 
@BlackBear You should downvote someone! Then you reputation would be 1111!
 
sbi
(BTW, I believe the newbie hints, linked from the right pane, explain this and other things.)
@JamesMcNellis Good idea. Just pick James' last answer. He set you up to do that, after all!
 
sigh... suppose I need to work on this report on on-line games... its so dull.
 
Xeo
9:04 PM
noone here doing 3d programming? :|
 
sbi
@James: I missed having 44,444 the other day. Just jumped over it with one single answer. :(
 
@JamesMcNellis lol! @Xeo: veeery little...
 
@Xeo yar! (yay for distraction for work)
sup?
 
Xeo
@FredOverflow I know that link, crazy stuff
 
sbi
9:05 PM
@FredOverflow Haha, I remember this, it's a very good one!
 
@Xeo I would simply try both ways and see which one produces visually more appealing results :)
 
oh right, erm what you mean, like rotating an upper arm, then translating to the elbow, then rotating again
 
Xeo
suppose I want to rotate the moon around the earth
 
I call this approach "Ignorance-driven development".
2
 
Xeo
9:07 PM
and the earth around the sun
@FredOverflow lol
 
Just try all possible permutations until one of them seems to work.
 
@xeo: suppose the sun is in the origin:
create a translation matrix to move the earth far away
move the moon too
 
I think you draw sun, rotate to point to the earth, then translate out, draw earth, then rotate to point moon, translate out and draw moon
I am sure it is that way around
 
then a rotation matrix to rotate the earth (and the moon)(around the sun)
then another translation matrix to move the moon away from the earth
 
if you call a rotation just befor you draw the earth, it will make it look the earths day/night cycle
 
9:09 PM
finally a rotation matrix and rotate the moon
i think this should be ok..
 
dont forget though, if you do this, you need to think about where the axis you are moving along to get from earth to moon is pointing
 
@Xeo I do. Sort of. But I don't bother with all this matrix stuff. I let my graphics engine handle that stuff for me.
 
@sbi Remember those C++ bashing papers by Sakkinen? I just read the second one, it's still full of uninformed rants and outdated information. For example, Sakkinen claims that the assignment operator cannot take its argument by value, because that would lead to infinite recursion. Yet the copy-and-swap idiom does exactly that without recursing indefinitely :-) This proves that Sakkinen does not know the difference between initialization and assignment.
 
Xeo
@PigBen Well yeah, I'd like to do so too... but unfortunately, this is part of my directX exam and I need to directly operator on directX :|
 
@sbi He also claims that the name of an array is always just a pointer to its first element :-)
And of course he claims that references are just pointers in disguise.
And he uses "l-value" and "object" synonymously.
 
9:12 PM
@FredOverflow This morning there was a question on C also (indirectly) related to arrays being equal to pointers
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas Did you point the person to my array FAQ? ;-)
 
lame... I need to find cheaper food
Student loan can not come soon enough
 
The question was a little entangled: he was defining an array in a macro (still wonder why):
#define x (const char**){ "Hi", "there" }
and then using:
printf( "%s\n", x[1] );
In fact, it is not that much array vs. ptr...
Just... wrong, plain wrong.
 
Next paper in line: A Critique of C++ from 1992 :)
@DavidRodríguezdribeas ...What exactly was he hoping to accomplish? :-)
 
I don't care who you £3 a day for food is not fun
 
9:18 PM
If I just knew... he said that he wanted the preprocessor to initialize the array... whatever that might mean --ignorance basically. I usually find hard to tackle those questions, there are details that are misunderstood, but there is also a big lack of understanding of the whole language
Why the macro does not work as "expected" is kind of an interesting question on some details of the language and what that unusual construct means
why he was trying to do it basically indicated that he did not understand the roles of the preprocessor, the compiler, the data types in the language...
 
And that the {...} syntax can only be used for initialization of arrays. It is not a "value" in itself. (sadly, imho)
 
@FredOverflow Ha! "In C++ the programmer must manually manage storage due to the lack of garbage collection."
 
@JamesMcNellis Well, that paper was written before RAII was invented, I guess :-)
 
From that paper I like: "C++ is a difficult language in which there may be a very fine line between a feature and a bug"
A friend used to say that his code had no bugs, only some minor undocumented features...
 
Why did yesterday's Simpsons episode feature the soundtrack from Jurassic Park? (Did anyone else notice?)
 
9:22 PM
@DavidRodríguezdribeas Like the "let them eat cake" quote, they didn't say it first
 
(Not that I mind, I love the title track.)
 
oh, that reminds me
I haven't watched that yet
 
@DeadMG It was lame.
Even though it featured Angry Dad.
 
lol
I only watch for nostalgia anyway
 
Then why don't you watch the old episodes?
 
9:23 PM
All coming from a bug/feature of the solaris rm binary, that leaked memory, someone hacked into a server he was administering, and run rm -rf /. Before it finished deleting the programs (that can be reinstalled), rm had leaked enough memory to crash due to a failed allocation
 
I mean, we don't program in C++ because C is great...
 
even at 2.2MB/s, it's gonna take a long time to DL them
plus, I've already seen them
 
@DeadMG 80 seconds is not exactly a long time...
Oh I thought you meant per episode.
I have the first ten seasons on DVD.
 
lol
my brother has every existing episode on his HDD
man, DVD is so last century, get with the program
my machine doesn't even have a DVD drive
 
What is HDD? :-)
 
Xeo
9:25 PM
mine still has a floppy drive!
 
High Density Disk? :-)
 
Xeo
because you never know
 
Mine only plays cartridges!
 
I don't know... are those the things we used to use before we all got solid state disks?
 
Xeo
9:26 PM
hehe
 
hard disk drive
 
Lovely C= 64!!!
 
I have an SSD, but I also need an HDD, since the HDD is 1TB in size
 
Jack Attack was my only cartridge :-)
 
Xeo
good old times, fiddling with the memory cards of my psOne...
 
9:27 PM
No wait, Action Replay IV, but that was not a game.
@DavidRodríguezdribeas Is there a C++ compiler for the C64?
C++64? :-)
I think there is a C compiler... is int 8 bits or 16 bits on C64? :-)
 
It seems that there is no C++ compiler
Oddly enough there is a bid for a programmer for the C64 from only one year ago!
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas What do you mean "a bid"?
@DavidRodríguezdribeas Of course not, it would not fit into memory :)
POKE 53280, 0
POKE 53281, 0
REM total blackness!!!
 
> This may seem an odd request but we're looking for a programmer who can code in 6502 assembler or any other native Commodore 64 programming language.
Is there any other native language besides 6502 and the horrible BASIC dialect? :)
 
sbi
@FredOverflow The one you posted a link to the other day, which I started to read, but then stopped,m because it was such a waste of time? I envy you students, you have soo much time at your hands...
 
9:37 PM
@sbi Actually, I'm not a student anymore. I officially received by Abschlusszeugnis today :-)
 
gz
 
@sbi Does X* p = new X{A(1), A(2), A(3)}; really work without the []?
@DeadMG GnuZip?
 
congratulaztions
 
Oh thanks.
 
I know I need to work on uni stuff, I just really can't be arsed
 
sbi
9:40 PM
@FredOverflow Wow! Cong-rats and other rodents! (Now do tell us your mark, won't you?) What are you going to do now? Get a job?
 
@sbi I have already been working at the university since October 10 :-) It's just that it took several months for the two Gutachten to write.
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Well, I copied it straight from the horse's^W^WStroustrup's website. (Except for the A(42) thingies, that is.)
 
@FredOverflow if X has a initializer_list<A> ctor, but not for an array
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Ah, so you're going to stay inside the ivory tower??
 
9:42 PM
ahhh... German for Diploma! Well done
 
@sbi My final grade is barely "sehr gut".
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Now that's impressive! Great!
 
care to translate for me?
 
sbi
@thecoshman Very good.
 
@sbi At least for another 2,5 years, yes. But I suppose I will enter the real world after that.
 
9:43 PM
Am I the only one who dosen't speak German here?
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Yeah, they keep saying that... :) What are you doing at the university?
@thecoshman No. This is one of those rare nights when the Germans are not the overwhelming majority here. :)
2
 
no, I don't understand it either.... and the chat not allowing me to copy (and paste into google translate) is not helping either
 
@sbi Teaching freshmen C++ and Java, mostly :-)
 
anyone knows why it does not allow me to copy contents of the chat?
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Teaching!? What status do you have? Assistent?
 
9:44 PM
(it might be Mac related, it is not Ctrl-C but Cmd-C, where Cmd is the key otherwise known as "windows")
 
@sbi Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter. Quite low, I suppose. But since I love teaching, I don't really care about my "status".
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas allows me to copy, but there's something related to flash and that clipboard button that I don't understand yet. I have flash disabled, so if it's not for you, that could be related
 
sbi
@DavidRodríguezdribeas Works on my machine (FF on Win7/64).
 
@FredOverflow That should be pretty easy, since Java and C++ are mostly the same and once you know Java, programming in C++ is super-easy because it's the same, really.
2
 
Copying works here, too.
 
9:45 PM
Whenever I try Cmd+C it just beeps (and quite loudly)...
 
@JamesMcNellis LOL, good one :)
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas the SUPER key for linux :P
 
windows isn't super :(
 
funny enough I took a C++ test where copying text was disabled in the web page by terminating the session if Ctrl was pressed, and that allowed Cmd+C perfectly
I guess SO chat is more secure agains plagiarism from mac users
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas Plagiarism is a hot topic in Germany, these days... :)
 
sbi
9:47 PM
@FredOverflow Not that I cared that I was a mere external lecturer for several years. :) I, too, like teaching. But I like doing actual programming just as much. Doing a little bit of both seemed to be the best. Only that I had to little time for both...
 
Are you using a German browser? ;)
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Oh yeah!
 
@sbi Well, I get to prepare programming projects, so I get a little share of programming... but no huge, exciting projects, of course.
@sbi Who knows, maybe that'll be my next job in a couple of years:
But I'd hate to cut my hair for that, I like it long...
 
@FredOverflow me to :D
by the I mean I also like having long hair... I care not about your long hair
 
sbi
9:50 PM
@FredOverflow That's different. I like actually leaving a mark in this world. My code is sold with Acrobat Pro and Quark Xpress (several million installations), works at google, Xerox, and Hitachi, in HP printers and I lost track of where else. I like that very much.
 
@FredOverflow you want to be a headshot photographer?
 
@thecoshman You have long hair? From your gravatar, it looks more like you've got squares and triangles ;)
@sbi That's awesome!
 
@FredOverflow HAY! It's not that long since I washed
 
sbi
@FredOverflow What do you know of Scott's life? I seriously doubt that you would want to have his job. Really, I do.
 
@ThomasEdleson No, I want to be Scott Meyers :) Finally learning a complex language could actually pay off :)
 
9:53 PM
if c++ isn't complex enough for you to learn, then I'm terrified of you, just a little bit
 
What? I am talking about C++ being a complex language.
 
good, I was getting scared
 
Is there any real-world language that is more complex?
 
hang on, I'm thinking
 
C++0x does not count, by the way ;) That is still C++.
 
9:55 PM
c++1x?
because I can't bring myself to say c++0x+1
 
Are they already making plans for C++1x?
 
I'm sure someone is, but not so actively until 0x is out. I've heard there are some that are already planning to look at concepts again
 
I want to see concepts coming back, C++ isn't complex enough without them :)
There you go.
@ThomasEdleson Sooooo true!
 
sbi
@FredOverflow "My hair style calls into immediate question all my judgements." Scott Meyers
2
 
@sbi That's an awesome quote :)
 
sbi
9:58 PM
(Took me a while to dig this one out, but, being a male wearing a pony tail, I never forgot it.)
 
Thanks, digging appreciated.
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Finnish?
@FredOverflow In fact, they are planning nothing else. The next standard will be C++1x.
 
@sbi I cannot upvote unless you change your line to X* p = new X[3] {A(1), A(2), A(3)}; :)
new X and new X[] do not work.
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Is that right? Did I miss this when skimming through Stroustrup's FAQ entry?
 
(Or is that my ignorant compiler at work?)
@sbi What line did you use?
 
sbi
10:03 PM
@FredOverflow Ah, I guess he was describing a class taking two parameters with that new. He doesn't seem to really say anything about array new...
@FredOverflow X* p = new X{1,2};
 
Well, X* p = new X[3] {A(1), A(2), A(3)}; works on current g++, so that might mean that's how it's done with arrays... dunno.
@sbi But the next standard is never called "C++1x", right? For now it's called "C+0x", and when it's done, it will be called "C++11", right?
@sbi You should also replace X by A :)
(Should have mentioned that earlier.)
And maybe put a space between ] and {?
@sbi Nevermind, I did it for you ;)
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Dammit!
 
Probably C++12
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Yeah, I hit the edit button, and there already was an A. That did confuse me for a moment...
 
It was wizards!
 
sbi
10:10 PM
@FredOverflow Since the next standard will likely be either C++11 or C++12, but definitely won't be C++09 or C++08, not C++20 or C++21, I prefer to use the correct C++1x. Of course, everyone else disagrees with that, but I'm "old" enough to stick to correct numbers even if the whole world disagrees.
 
But the next next standard will probably be before 2020, and I would like to refer to that as C++1x :(
 
sbi
Interestingly, they have implemented for SO comments to support italic bold statements recently (I only discovered that yesterday, by pasting a quote from an answer into a comment), but didn't implement it for chat messages.
@FredOverflow Why? Isn't C++ confusing enough as it is?
 
What's the syntax, three stars?
 
Xeo
@FredOverflow Yes
 
Well, we must have some name for it...
 
10:12 PM
The next next will probably be a TR in this decade, and then work on the real next next standard that I am not expecting in this decade (if it does it will be quite close to 2020)
 
sbi
I know that three underlines (which I prefer to stars) are supported. I know that they weren't supported several weeks ago.
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas Any candidates for that TR already?
 
Xeo
who needs standard after 2012 anyway?
 
Concepts
Modules
GC
 
sbi
@David Who are they?
 
10:14 PM
I am not sure on the GC, whether a proper GC or rather extended support for library provided GCs
 
Can you really put concepts, modules and gc into a TR? I thought a TR was for library extensions?
 
Argh.
I need another pair of eyes.
 
@wilhelmtell We have codereview.stackexchange.com for that.
 
Xeo
Haha, I need glasses. For like 5 years already...
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Goggles?
 
10:17 PM
std::copy_n(std::istream_iterator<int>(std::cin), 2, out.begin()); reads 3 ints.
... and puts the first 2 in out.
 
Let me try that...
 
sbi
Ha, I planted a link to this old favorite of mine an hour ago, and just got an upvote on it! It always works...
 
@wilhelmtell Indeed it does for me too :) That's funny...
 
I am trying to locate where I read (or interpreted) that those things would be in a TR/TC
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas Well, you wrote that after I asked you:
> Any candidates for that TR already?
 
Xeo
10:19 PM
@sbi I upvote things I like :)
 
@sbi Oh I love your UB pregnancy answer!
 
sbi
@wilhelmtell Maybe your implementation of copy_n is faulty? :) (Is there really a std one. after all? Then I must have confused it with some other algorithm.)
 
@FredOverflow seriously? :-S am i not crazy?
 
Self referencing quote is probably not the best
 
the implementation looks fine
 
sbi
10:20 PM
@Xeo So that was you 5mins ago? I lurve you!
 
  template<typename _InputIterator, typename _Size, typename _OutputIterator>
    _OutputIterator
    __copy_n(_InputIterator __first, _Size __n,
	     _OutputIterator __result, input_iterator_tag)
    {
      for (; __n > 0; --__n)
	{
	  *__result = *__first;
	  ++__first;
	  ++__result;
	}
      return __result;
    }
 
@wilhelmtell Either that, or we're both crazy.
 
Xeo
@sbi Either that, or my vote got abducted by aliens and they voted up
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Although two users decided it was not a useful answer.
 
except maybe there's something with std::istream_iterator<>
reading twice , maybe once for dereference and once for assignment
no that can't be it. or it'd read twice as many ints
 
Xeo
10:21 PM
But I think the common problem in understanding UB is the fact that we, as programmers, can define everything
 
@wilhelmtell No, that would not explain the n+1 pattern.
 
sbi
@Xeo Oh well, then I will have to make love to aliens instead. What would not we rep-whores do for an upvote?!
 
Xeo
apart from UB that is
 
@FredOverflow yeah
 
Hold on, let me try that in Visual Studio 2008...
 
sbi
10:22 PM
@wilhelmtell Uh oh. You used leading double underscores. No wonder this code acts funny! :)
 
lol that's from <algorithm> !
 
Xeo
I think I like lambdas too much... instead of a global function I make a little lambda in the function where I use it and save it with auto mylambda = ...
 
not mine! :p
 
sbi
@wilhelmtell: Of course, I'd never have guessed that...
 
why does it read one too many?!
 
10:24 PM
Funny enough, after a while googling, I end up finding a link back to SO
12
A: Modules in C++0x

James McNellisFrom the State of C++ Evolution (Post San Francisco 2008), the Modules proposal was categorized as "Heading for a separate TR:" These topics are deemed too important to wait for another standard after C++0x before being published, but too experimental to be finalised in time for the next Stan...

So modules are "heading for a separate TR"
 
sbi
@Xeo Programming in C#, I fell in love with lambda functions. They are great.
 
@wilhelmtell What standard? Visual Studio 2008 does not recognize copy_n...
 
@FredOverflow I think you need Visual Studio 2010. I'm using g++ -std=c++0x
 
Xeo
@sbi Yeah, lambdas and the auto keyword. They're my best friends since I use VS2010
 
g++ 4.5.1
 
Xeo
10:26 PM
Too bad VS2010 doesn't have variadic templates...
 
sbi
@DavidRodríguezdribeas Ha, the guy asks four questions and @jalf replies (in a comment) with "yes, yes, and yes." That hurts like dangling parentheses.
 
@wilhelmtell I copied the code you posted for copy_n. Visual Studio 2008 also displays the n+1 pattern. This is getting interesting :)
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Ah, so I was right?
 
@sbi Must be a C++0x addition.
 
@FredOverflow @sbi but of course it's C++0x! You silly, you!
 
sbi
10:28 PM
@FredOverflow Call me a pervert, but I find there are much more interesting things than the obscure behavior of some not-quite-yet-standardized C++ standard library function.
 
@wilhelmtell, where is that code from? It is full of reserved qualifiers
 
sbi
@wilhelmtell Hear, hear, now he's calling us names!
 
@sbi you're not suggesting I should write a loop, dear god?!
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas From g++'s standard library, of course.
 
sbi
@DavidRodríguezdribeas A (C++1x) std lib implementation.
 
10:29 PM
@DavidRodríguezdribeas g++ 4.5.1 <algorithm> with -std=c++0x
 
@sbi At first I read "a std @litb implementation" :)
 
sbi
@wilhelmtell I'm not god (and if I was, I'd be GOD anyway), but The Grumpy Old Man. (And you should fear my grumpiness much more than God's wrath!)
 
Xeo
@sbi So you're GOM
 
sbi
Jan 8 at 21:17, by sbi
@Johannes I think stdlitb is an excellent nick to stick onto you. Would you mind starting to get used to it?
@Xeo TGOM!
 
@sbi The first "yes" does not make any sense.
> Why did they remove it from C++0x?
> Yes!
 
sbi
10:32 PM
@FredOverflow But that's because we don't know to which three out of a set of four questions he was applying this to! :)
 
@FredOverflow The first one is the question left unanswered... actually is the only question, then a set of options are proposed and @jalf decides that it is some kind of multiple choice question and ticks the three of them... simple
 
> What is the greatest feature of C++0x?
 
sbi
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Home of TGOM
 
> Yes!
Finally we have an answer for every question!
> Yes!
 
sbi
About time we changed that!
 
10:33 PM
uhm... TGOM?
 
The Grumpy Old Man
 
Wasn't 42 THE answer?
 
I liked the garbage collection line better :(
 
TGOM?
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas I like "Yes!" better.
 
sbi
10:33 PM
@FredOverflow Without capitalization! You heretic!
 
@wilhelmtell The Grumpy Old Man
@sbi ...What are you talking about? O:-)
 
Right. And now the Man grabs praise for himself, by force. Right then.
 
sbi
@FredOverflow So did I, but it was getting old. Let's stick to the fine tradition of changing the tagline at least once or twice a months. (I love traditions. It comes with age, I guess.)
 
@sbi When does "age" start?
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Age starts at my age. Where else?
 
10:36 PM
So you have loved traditions from the day you were born?
 
@wilhelmtell I think that the issue is that the std::istream_iterator consumes the data on creation and incrementing, and only returns the cached data on dereferrence
 
Xeo
@FredOverflow Age starts in 1970 ofc! So now it would be 41.
 
That is epoc, not age!
 
sbi
@FredOverflow No. When I was born, traditions weren't that interesting at my age yet. (Isn't that obvious?)
@DavidRodríguezdribeas Are you calling me names now, too?!
 
But you said traditions came with age, and age was always your age...
 
sbi
10:38 PM
@FredOverflow Young novice, look again! Where did I say it always starts at my age?
 
Your statements are way too vague. I'm going back to reading n3225, c ya!
;)
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas I think you're right. That would mean std::istream_iterator doesn't work well with algorithms that end with _n()
 
sbi
@FredOverflow That, too, comes with age... :)
 
@FredOverflow there was 03, I don't see why there can't be a C++16 or 17
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas @FredOverflow Got it. On the effects of the istream_iterator constructor: 24.5.1.1/2: Initializes in_stream with s. value may be initialized during construction or the first time it is referenced.
I'm shocked by this, to be honest. I'm shocked still.
It makes no sense.
It must be my usual Monday evening stupidity. I must be getting something wrong here.
Why on earth would the standard allow this?
Anyone?
Is this worth mentioning on stackoverflow?
 
sbi
11:03 PM
@wilhelmtell Just to stir up some off-topic discussion (got to live up to my reputation!): While buying a birthday present for my smallest child, I happened to come across a Rubik's Cube at €3.99. I didn't have one since mine fell apart about 25 years ago, so I bought it. I have now tried all evening to remember the moves to solve it, and got as far as solving two levels. I'm still hammering at the third one, though...
 
@sbi I never really saw the point of the Rubik's Cube.
 
sbi
@FredOverflow The disadvantage of those born too late. It's a puzzle, it was the first 3D one, and it gave John Doe a feeling of doing "something mathematical". Isn't that point enough? It certainyl was in the 80s.
 
and it let you smash it apart to put back in solved order, or, even better, in unsolvable order
 
I'm going to unstir the conversation again. Do forgive me.
 
sbi
@ThomasEdleson Na. That was the 80s. We were nice kids back then. The cheating we did was to find the algorithms to solve this, not shatter it. :)
@wilhelmtell Why would I? :)
 
11:20 PM
From n3225, the latest C++0x draft, 24.6.1/1:
> After it is constructed, and every time ++ is used, the iterator reads and stores a value of T.
So, now the std::istream_iterator is guaranteed to read on construction.
I have been bumbed down beyond repair now. Sorry. KTHX.
 
@wilhelmtell how is that bad? surely more predictable behavior in 0x than 03 is an improvement here
 
@ThomasEdleson It's better in that sense, yes. Now I know things don't work. In C++03 it was "things may or may not work". Yeah, I suppose things are better now.
 
@FredOverflow Once upon a time, there was a Pascal compiler and at least one Forth implementation. The Forth implementation was quite bad; the Pascal compiler was (quite a lot) worse. As I recall, there was a P-code Pascal compiler that wasn't too terrible, but clearly not "native" by any reasonable definition.
 
@ThomasEdleson std::istream_iterator doesn't work with std::copy_n().
 
document.write("Hello everyone!");
 
11:24 PM
@wilhelmtell iostreams fail more often than not
 
ops!
here is c
print("hello chatters !"); hahah
 
if you're going to use "print", you might as well have said document.write was C
struct { int (*write)(const char*); } document = { puts };
 
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