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12:00 AM
Apparently writing AIs to beat Nethack is a true rite of passage for AI people.
Nethack comes with an interface library, I think.
 
There isn't an official one.
 
No need to play this pesky bastard yourself.
 
There's a community effort in Perl, I think.
 
Does Conditional structures in C include if statements, switch case, goto, conditional operator, while loop, do while loop,and for loop ?
 
12:01 AM
then what are the conditional statements in c
 
there's nothing conditional about goto
 
Also, beating it (or failing to) yourself is more fun than writing an AI.
 
if and switch.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes For some definition of "fun"...
 
@KerrekSB My definition!
 
12:02 AM
also, you can make your own conditionals from comparisons (or even regular arithmetic) and function pointer arrays
 
Last time a homunculus got me after an exploding spore killed my pony
 
@CatPlusPlus Thank You
 
@KerrekSB You haven't played DF, have you.
 
I was so upset over the pony that I got careless
 
Also, I beat NetHack once :P
 
12:02 AM
@CatPlusPlus Dinner Fight?
 
Dwarf Fortress
 
And then something happened.
 
No, I haven't
Is it good?
 
In Before Martinho!
 
Yeeees.
 
12:03 AM
@KerrekSB It's awesome!
 
if Roguelikes are the precursors of Diablo
then Dwarf Fortress is like a precursor of Sim City
except there are a bunch more enemies and a whole lot more ways to die
 
Except it came after.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Better than Nethack?
 
It's not a roguelike
 
@KerrekSB It's different.
I like both.
But then I seem to have a "weird" taste in games.
 
12:04 AM
OK, I'll give it a shot!
 
It's a full-on dwarf suicide and utter magma failure simulator.
 
Don't tell me about magma.
 
FLOOR IS LAVA!
AND ALL THE OTHER FLOORS, TOO!
 
You spend days building a 50 level tower of pumps to get the magma to the surface, and then you forget to close a floodgate before turning the pumps on.
 
It's funny that they drown in lava before melting.
 
12:06 AM
I think that was "adjusted" in the last release.
 
Oh, wait, is that the 2D Minecraft?
 
Dwarf on fire is grumpy dwarf.
But carries on like a dwarf.
 
Also, DAMN YOU TOADY! I WANT THE NEXT RELEASE. It's been almost a year.
 
@CatPlusPlus auto lava = std::floor;
 
@KerrekSB No.
Terraria is close to being sort-of 2D Minecraft, but not really.
DF is different genre altogether, although it's sandbox, too.
With lots of sand.
 
12:08 AM
That you can use to make glass.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Bedrock, non?
 
Eh, once in a while I want to play DF, but then I absolutely suck.
 
That you can use to make magma pumps (for some reason glass melts at a higher temperature than magma ).
 
Which you can then use to melt your CPU.
Also thermonuclear catsplosion.
 
@CatPlusPlus Someone on the forums found a non-traditional pump stack design that doesn't kill your FPS.
@KerrekSB There's no bedrock in DF! At the bottom you find the magma sea and HFS.
 
12:09 AM
Those damn things.
 
@CatPlusPlus Cats make good dwarf coats.
 
I never won with them.
Adamantium? Oh well, gg, game over.
 
gg no re
 
Adamantine.
Or whatever.
 
Adamantine axes are super cool.
 
12:11 AM
I don't remember.
 
They slash everything like butter.
 
Yeah, you can commit mass suicide easily.
If you manage to get enough before other things will kill you.
 
Give them to your sheriff and then he will destroy your fortress.
 
Pull the Emergency Do-Not-Pull Lever!
Evacuate dwarfs! Kill nobles!
Er, accident nobles.
@KerrekSB Read Boatmurdered.
 
"Noble disposal rooms" are an integral part of all my fortresses.
 
12:13 AM
"Bath"rooms.
With hot lava water.
 
you should really know the strikethrough markup by now :P
 
Meh, I don't use it too often.
 
Good night guys!
 
See ya!
 
Thanks for the help with LL grammars
 
12:16 AM
Bronzemurder is cool too: timdenee.com/bronzemurder.html And suitable for those that don't like reading. Shrugs.
 
(Be nice i'm new :D) I don't suppose some one could recommend their favourite cross platform IDE? pref, with GUI stuff built in
 
Code::Blocks.
 
I don't have one.
 
What do you use then? Notepad? Thanks, i'll check it out
 
12:23 AM
uhuw, marshal badge! Love it!
 
@SBlackler What do you mean by "GUI stuff built in"?
 
Moc, maybe?
 
jli
@SBlackler Code::Blocks
 
ahem
 
jli
But for Java, Eclipse of course.
 
12:33 AM
QTCreator
 
jli
And for much else, just vim.
 
nobody with brains would ask about Java in here
we don't take to that kindly
 
jli
Did you know there's no unsigned types in Java, except for the char type?
 
ask me if I care first
 
jli
(Which happens to be 2 bytes because they decided unicode is best)
 
12:34 AM
hint: I don't
 
jli
@DeadMG you've answered 50 java tagged questions.
 
really? a whole 50?
 
@jli char is "unsigned"?
 
jli
Yeah?
 
where did you find that?
 
jli
12:36 AM
Find what, the char thing?
It's in the spec somewhere.
 
no, that I've answered 50 Java questions
 
jli
On your userpage..
50 non-wiki answers
 
yeah, I have 2,250 answers
I don't see any option to filter them to just Java
 
jli
Or that
 
OK
 
Lots of those are though.
 
then take out all the ones that aren't about comparing C++ and Java
 
jli
12:40 AM
At 50/page though lol
 
most, if not all, are from my Java course I took a couple years back
amagad, I can't believe that was two whole years ago...
 
Yeah, time flows forward. That's weird.
 
a lot of it has flown forward since I last checked
you know, recently, I realized that becoming increasingly introverted is a nasty self-fulfilling prophecy
 
jli
@RMartinhoFernandes Prove it can't stop, and that it's linear.
 
if I wanted to get help, I'd have to go to another person and ask for it
 
12:42 AM
That goes against the introversion ideals though.
 
how so?
 
You have to be introverted about your introversion.
 
also, Introversion rocks
Introversion Software are British video game developers. History The company was founded in 2001 by three friends, Chris Delay; Mark Morris; and Thomas Arundel, who met when they were undergraduates at Imperial College London. The company originally labelled itself 'the last of the bedroom programmers' due to the team working out of their homes rather than having an office - they finally moved into an office when working on their fourth game, Multiwinia. Their first released game, Uplink, was programmed and designed almost exclusively by Chris, while Mark and Tom handled marketing, mater...
 
@DeadMG Totally agree.
 
@DeadMG HAHAHA! My ex-roommate was the best programmer I ever met, but he hated everyone alive, and was a butthead. He worked for Introversion Software.
 
12:44 AM
funny, I hate most people alive
 
@DeadMG Uplink is cool. I didn't really get into Devcon that much.
 
me neither
 
Or /dev/con?
 
I also own Multiwinia and Darwinia and didn't really like either of them
 
-3
Q: C++ Curiosities

Calum MurrayWe have a lecturer that is on the C++ ISO standard committee coming for a Q&A session. What strange corenercases for C++ can I ask him to trip him up/get the answer for?

 
12:45 AM
but Uplink was teh roxxors
 
@KerrekSB DEFCON.
They should make Uplink 2.
 
@DeadMG Good soundtrack!
@RMartinhoFernandes "Uplink 2: Downlink"
@RMartinhoFernandes Hmmm
 
lol
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Do you want to reopen that?
 
No. I just found it funny.
"(...) to trip him up (...)".
 
12:59 AM
question
is char16_t defined to be not the same as wchar_t
my mistake
 
@DeadMG It's a distinct type.
 
officially. Last I checked it was a typedef still in MSVC10
 
but not a typedef for wchar_t
 
so I can overload on it
 
1:02 AM
@DeadMG that would be terrible
 
@DeadMG Then for what? uint_least16_t?
 
unsigned short
which MSVC guarantees to be 16bit on all platforms
 
I guess that's the same as uint_least16_t.
 
man
so many overloads for adding to a string, lol
 
Does scanf() and gets() append a null character ' \0 ' at the end ? (for a string)
 
1:03 AM
char, signed char, unsigned char, wchar_t, unsigned wchar_t, char16_t, char32_t?
 
no
 
@Failed_Noob gets no, fgets yes
Is there an unsigned wchar_t? First time I hear of it
 
what about scanf() ?
 
I would imagine scanf does, or else there's no way to know how much was read
 
char, wchar_t, char16_t, char32_t, const char*, const wchar_t*, const char32_t*, const char16_t*, std::string, std::wstring
 
1:04 AM
@KerrekSB No.
 
in operator+ and operator+= forms
 
@Failed_Noob Do not use scanf or gets to read a string.
 
@KerrekSB: my bad
 
@DeadMG Get ready for std::u16string and std::u32string in the future :)
 
use cout and std::string
I thought that C++0x does not have proper Unicode support?
 
1:05 AM
@EtiennedeMartel What else can I use
 
@Failed_Noob Oh, are you talking about C++?
 
@DeadMG: it doesn't.
 
oh, they're just typedefs for char16_t and char32_t
 
@KerrekSB, No , I m talking about C
 
@Failed_Noob fgets.
 
1:06 AM
@Failed_Noob Ah. No, I don't think the newline is included.
 
@Failed_Noob Here's the real question: why are you talking about C.
 
@DeadMG Yes, basic_string<char16_t> and basic_string<char32_t>.
 
But don't use scanf.
 
that sucks
oh well
 
@DeadMG Because I have an exam in 3 hours
 
1:07 AM
@DeadMG scanf() forms the basis of std::to_string :-)
 
ok
 
No, wait, sprintf does.
 
now I've just defined about 15 addition operators
 
One of the two anyway
 
and their += counterparts
    string& operator+=(string&& other) {
        contents += std::move(other.contents);
        return *this;
    }
    string& operator+=(const string& other) {
        contents += other.contents;
        return *this;
    }
    string& operator+=(const char*);
    string& operator+=(const wchar_t*);
    string& operator+=(const char16_t*);
    string& operator+=(const char32_t*);
    string& operator+=(wchar_t);
    string& operator+=(char);
    string& operator+=(char16_t);
    string& operator+=(char32_t);
 
1:07 AM
@DeadMG: cant just define 15 constructors and let conversion take over the rest? Or template them?
 
@DeadMG Boost.Operators.
 
@DeadMG It doesn't take the strings by reference?
 
@KerrekSB i think if so then there's an inconsistency, since dependence on scanf (causing possible UB) was removed from stream input
 
@RMartinhoFernandes: I want to know the context behind "Up is in the direction of your head, and down in the direction of your feet." -oh look, there's links!-
 
@MooingDuck Follow the link and see for yourself! (And star it :P)
 
1:09 AM
yeah, going to have to fix the std::string ones to take various references
thing is, I'd love to template them, I guess
T, const T*, const std::basic_string<T>&
 
@AlfPSteinbach Is the revised post acceptable?
 
but I'd have to explicitly specialize them
and I don't want to have to deal with having the unspecialized version causing linker errors later
 
@DeadMG Template on template <typename TChar, typename TTraits, typename TAlloc> std::basic_string<TChar, TTraits, TAlloc>.
 
I still need to write separate functions for TChar, though
 
:1974545 Who, what? :-)
 
1:11 AM
so that I can convert between UTFs appropriately
of course, the actual implementations can delegate to each other quite significantly
it's just a lot of declarations
 
i don't see anything wrong with it. seems okay. yes.
 
oh!
also I'm going to be implementing six billion comparison operators
:P
 
What is it with you and macros?
 
1:17 AM
when I finish inventing WideC, I shall be able to automate such code without requiring any macro trickery
 
what is WideC exactly?
 
<--- silly
 
@EtiennedeMartel It simplifies tedious repetition.
 
Indeed.
 
← not sure
 
1:20 AM
Hey folks.
Papers papers galore!
 
What kind of papers?
 
@AlfPSteinbach I hear its a new language developed for writing Duke Nukem Forever in :-)
2
Oh wait...
 
@EtiennedeMartel For school. Politics, English.
 
lol
 
One more C++ homework to do.
 
1:22 AM
Oh.
 
here's a question
what's UTF16 codepoints above the surrogate range?
 
is it illegal to appear in well-formed UTF16?
 
No.
0xE000 represents codepoint U+E000.
 
ok
strange that the surrogate range is randomly in the middle
 
1:25 AM
It's Unicode.
 
point taken
 
WinPhone is the new BlackBerry.
 
so the only way to have invalid UTF16 is to have an invalid surrogate pair
 
I think so.
 
ok
next question: can I just cast a wchar_t to the appropriate charXX_t pointer?
 
1:29 AM
@DeadMG That sounds like a reinterpret_cast. The cast is not UB (both standard layout types), but the result depends on the implementation.
 
hmm
 
I think that on Windows it's safe to cast to char16_t.
 
I feel that it would be the cleanest solution to deal with different wchar_t sizes
I dislike binary manipulations
no type safety :P
 
@DeadMG Why would you? The two types are for different purposes.
 
because if a wchar_t is 16bit, then it's UTF16 and I want to add it to my internal buffer using the same algorithm as char16_t, which I also expect to be UTF16
so logically, the wchar_t operators can delegate to either the char16_t operators or the char32_t operators
since the only thing I actually care about is the bit width
 
1:39 AM
Can't you just convert everything into a single format and use that throughout?
 
that's what these functions are doing
converting to UTF-16
 
that's why my current string class is accepting virtually everything under the sun
so that I no longer have to care, as it were
interesting that MSVC has char16_t and char32_t and u16string, but not u"" or U"" literals
 
@DeadMG There's no reason why a platform with a 16-bit wchar_t would be using UTF-16 as its internal encoding.
 
true
except I'm unconcerned about that, really
for a start, I fully plan on documenting the assumption that all character types are encoded according to their bit widths
i.e., char16_t must be UTF-16
etc
and secondly, I'm on Windows, where that is true, and concerned about other platforms second
curious, though
MSVC won't reinterpret_cast a wchar_t to a char16_t
 
1:49 AM
Pointers.
reinterpret_cast is for pointers.
(or references).
 
oh well
static ought to be fine
 
@DeadMG char16_t is UTF16 :-) But wchar_t isn't necessarily.
 
@KerrekSB It is on Windows.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes WideC -- the portable C compiler for Windows?
More like "WinC"
 
1:56 AM
lol
 
Or WiCed?
 
in WideC, all strings will be UTF16, effectively
 
The WideC Kompiler could be called wicked.
 
and I might provide conversions for the sake of OS routines or other libraries, but most functions will be UTF16 only
 
Guess what compiler is called ick.
 
1:57 AM
International C Kompiler?
 
Apt
 
The INTERCAL compiler.
 
GG OP NO RE
 
@DeadMG Yeha. Can you give "kompiler" a Cyrillic spelling?
 
man
 
1:59 AM
 
I think that Kompiler is a hilarious name
 

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