Feb 9, 2015 20:54
@Lattyware respectfully, I think if your unshakeable belief is that SO is not appropriate for that set of questions despite what I consider to be their obvious merit and the fact that voters -- on SO -- have elevated the answers (also on SO) in the thousands, then I think we can just agree to disagree cordially on this topic. Also, the format constraint would apply only to questions judged too broad since that is the specific concern (Ie instead of 'hold because too broad', you just get to 'constrain because too broad').
Feb 9, 2015 20:54
@Lattyware I think this exchange is pretty helpful because it surfaces some of the concerns that are really driving the fear of the broad. Format is one that comes up a lot (aka should be a blog). If that is a concern, why hold the question rather than just constrain the format? If a question is too broad, constrain answers to 2 paragraphs rather than hold it. I will bet my career that even broadest programming questions can garner fantastic concise answers. Holding just allows a few to bet against the talent of the many, which is a pity
Feb 9, 2015 20:54
@Lattyware we can certainly agree to disagree on this. Compare that question one that says: 'why is this line of code in (my custom corporate IT software) not working?'. Which is likely to become obsolete faster? Which is likely to benefit more programmers? Which is likely to receive more search hits, attract more users, and be of more practical use to the programming community? The statement that these Q's are definitely not good for SO seems self-referential (PC 's will never be good for ordinary people). Certainly, the popularity of the question should not be dismissed so definitely imo.
Feb 9, 2015 20:54
@Lattyware sure: try posting a question entitled "The definitive Ruby (or insert a language of your choice) Book Guide and List".
Feb 9, 2015 20:54
@Lattyware it's being lost because those valuable questions, if they were posted today, would be held and then closed as too broad and the public deprived of great didactic answers. If someone even attempted to post a question like "python metaclass vs class decorator" today, that question would be put on hold immediately. Fortunately the moderation was not as stringent when Alex Martinelli answered it, and the community is IMO far richer for that.
Feb 9, 2015 20:54
@Lattyware the crucial assumption there is that broadening the scope would mean poor content. Take a look at the list of popular questions in the OP. These questions have irrefutably helped thousands of programmers, yet under today's moderating system most would be judged too broad. One might judge the content 'poor' if the yardstick is whether it confirmed to the current system of rules. But to me the thousands of votes indicate that by any other reasonable yardstick the content is fantastic.
Feb 9, 2015 20:54
@lightness agreed. It's good at least that folks are willing to consider a different POV as SO evolves. A broadening of scope doesn't come at a "zero sum" cost of excluding narrowly scoped questions... It could be accretive to the community. The Encyclopedia Brittanica started off as "a dictionary of Arts and Sciences" but evolved into greatness through judicious broadening of scope. Btw, here is their entry on 'lobster' goo.gl/qJK9K9
Feb 9, 2015 20:54
That's a pretty helpful answer. Thanks. I suppose the issue I am raising here is not what SO is today (net of the various evolutions it's come through). I agree wholly with you on that. It's more a discussion of the counterfactual of what it could be (or should be). Call it moaning if you like, but a reasoned argument to broaden scope was intended as a suggestion rather than a complaint. I suppose one could say women moaned way back then about the right to vote, or people moaned that monks had a monopoly over books. That doesn't necessarily mean their views were not constructive.
 
Feb 9, 2015 05:45
@davidism as anticipated, I'm sure you and perhaps others will find various reasons to critique the answer. So if you wish, you may certainly apply your judgement and powers to downvote the answer as you see fit, rather than continue the petty discussion here.
Feb 9, 2015 03:58
I ended up just building some stuff with both libraries to understand the relationship better and tried to answer my own question, given the time elapsed between then and now. It's certainly possible that answer fails a number of standards on subjectivity, brevity, etc. but for what it's worth I tried to answer it with a single positive principle instead of negative format constraints: what would another programmer asking this question want to know?
Feb 9, 2015 03:08
@MattDMo i'm aware of that, i willfully sinned cos i needed to get that reply under the character limit and couldn't find another word to use :-)
Feb 9, 2015 03:08
@ThisSuitIsBlackNot, you're right. I appreciate the topic on scope is a sensitive one given the community's investment in enforcing the rules. But at a certain point it feels like there should be a sniff test which goes something like, 1. "Is this a good coding question?", 2. "Would the community benefit from answers here", and 3. "Is SO a good format for answering this question?". I think a more permissive stance with a higher bar for blocking/holding questions would result in a much more powerful body of content at SO. Give power back to voters, rather than to opinionated moderators.
Feb 9, 2015 03:08
Thank you all for the discussion. I don't care very much about downvoting as sadly I don't contribute enough to SO for points to be meaningful to me. But I do care about the community because I think SO is pretty amazing, so I just wanted to register one person's views that the talent on this community is wasted when good and likely popular questions are closed too early because they are judged too narrow.
Feb 9, 2015 03:08
Thanks @BradleyDotNET. I'm generally a huge fan of SO and the very existence of the meta forum shows (to me at least) that there is a working sense of introspection in the community that allows topics like this to be discussed periodically. And obviously, users/moderators are putting in precious time to reviewing and assessing questions so this isn't intended to be a critique about specific users.