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2:00 PM
Linus disapproves of this room.
Well, Go wanted to be simple, too, I think.
They did it quite well.
Linus can disapprove of whatever he wants
he's just one man, with an opinion he never backs up in any meaningful fashion
I like little things like multiple return values.
Those are pretty sweet.
honestly
2:02 PM
Or defers.
one of the things that consistently amazes me about programmer culture is how they have celebrities
I'd have thought that it required a certain kind of intelligence to be a programmer that would preclude having celebrities
define celebrity
You think intelligence is required to be a programmer? Dude, you haven't met enough programmers.
define intelligence...
Define define.
2:03 PM
a celebrity is a person where you say who said something, not just what they said
It's called a quote.
heh @MartinhoFernandes well you need to be able to concentrate yourself for a certain time period
Being able to write a working program and being able to think by one's self are two very different things.
what Cat said
no, that's just attributing
2:04 PM
so programming is not something for every douchebag
I don't mean just, well, "X is Y, and I refer to Z"
but "X said Y, therefore it is true" kind of thing
Yup, it takes a very special kind of douchebag for programming.
thats religion, not having a celebrity
often observed with Linus Torvalds, Jon Skeet, Herb Sutter, Bjarne Stroustrup
2:04 PM
Well, there is also a matter of being an expert on a subject.
no
either you have a justified opinion, or you don't
and that's it
I don't have enough knowledge about e.g. cryptography, so I rely on what known experts say.
well, it's very easy to justify just about anything.
There are hard subjects out there, where you have to be very good, or trust someone else to be very good.
And if you tend to think you know better, then, well.
no, there's a difference
if you're an expert on cryptography, then I still expect you to back up your opinion- understanding it is my problem
you don't get to say "Well I'm an expert so gtfo"
2:08 PM
Of the "celebrities" you mentioned, I only ever saw Linus do something like that.
Hello folks
I've never seen the others do that either
but I have seen people not read or check the justifications
or refer opinions for example, that are fifteen years old referring to pre-Standard C++
just because of who said it
Anyone uses Qt here?
Sometimes.
@robik i do
2:14 PM
I have a problem with Regex pattern. It doesn't work (only in Qt (?))
Why do you think it doesn't word? Does it sentence?
I used to be good with regex when i worked with PHP. But that was 6 years ago
Here he is: \"([^\"]+|(?<=\\)\")*+\" based on Regex Clinic page 225
What are you trying to match?
Tsk tsk, you've used 'regex', 'php' and 'good' in the same sentence.
2:15 PM
I know I'm gonna regret this but... whats wrong with PHP @Cat?
Quotations. With my prevoius pattern (\"[^\"]\") it worked but when i type "a \" b" it doesn't
Everything. I think the @Cat agrees with me.
Not aaagain.
Search, I've already discussed it to death.
sum it up in a one liner cmon
PHP sucks.
3
2:16 PM
Nooooo! PHP is awesome
damn, you made me giggle
gimme alternatives to do PHP's work then
@Robik Does Qt support lookbehinds?
@MartinhoFernandes Not sure :P
Idiotic type system, inconsistent grammar, pile of shit instead of standard library, weird and utterly stupid architecture of the official implementation (php.ini, restart-on-every-request and crap like that), to name few things from the top of my head.
@hexa: ASP.NET
2:18 PM
@Robik Wikipedia says no.
@hexa Python and Django.
That's your problem right there.
@hexa Ruby and Rails.
@hexa: Perl's Catalyst? Other frameworks for other languages?
There's a ton of alternatives.
@MartinhoFernandes So is there any way to match it?
2:19 PM
lol someone flagged you?
PHP fanboys are about.
oh, I think I might have clicked valid by accident
@Robik Gimme a couple of minutes and I'll see if you can work around that.
lol
@MartinhoFernandes Thanks! :D
2:20 PM
@MartinhoFernandes Er, it does. It's PCRE or something compatible with PCRE.
I'm kinda behind on all of those technologies
when i used PHP, it was the best tool at the time
Or maybe not. Disregard that then.
ASP.NET came out with Visual Studio .NET 2002, I believe
It was never the best tool.
It was never even a good tool.
anything from microsoft sucks.
2:21 PM
It was only popular.
including C#
In Perl, /"(?:\\\\|\\"|[^\\"])*"/
Untested.
@hexa: That's just blind and ignorant
@hexa XBox is not bad :P
C# is hardly the pinnacle of design in my personal opinion, but it's far from suck
PHP is vastly worse than C# ever was
2:22 PM
@Robik What are you trying to match, exactly? Quoted strings with escapes?
Quotations including escapes matched as one
If so, forget about regexps, write a state machine.
regular expressions suck
REs are awesome.
@deadmg agreed.
2:23 PM
It will be less arcane than whatever you'll come up with to workaround the limitations of the RE engine.
they're incomprehensible garbage of characters
How do I turn a recursive algo into an iterative algorithm?
comprehending more than trivial regular expressions is insanity
No, APL is incomprehensible garbage of characters.
Regexes are overused where better solutions exist.
2:25 PM
imo? better solutions exist everywhere
I think if you could build regexes using a functional-style syntax, they would be vastly superior
@hexa ever tried out VS 2010?
one could write such a tool maybe?
@DeadMG Not really. See lexical analysis.
So Regular expressions can't do that? Damn it :P
@nils No. And I won't.
2:26 PM
@hexa: I could do, but absolutely no need to use regexes whatsoever, so
ur fail
yes, very much so.
@Robik PCRE regexes probably could, but they're hardly regexes, anyway.
so can anyone help/teach me about how to turn recursion into iteration
or just point me to a well written article
@nils: www.stackoverflow.com
2:27 PM
harsh
Try that way. ->
heh
@hexa: No, I don't think it is harsh
this is the chat- it's for chatting
we have a dedicated area for question asking
it's not unreasonable to ask a question... on a question and answer part of a site
:955159 I think this one does what your original one did: \"([^\"]|\\\\\")*\" But it does not consider escaping backslashes, just like yours.
@DeadMG yes indeed, i'm all fond of harshness
2:28 PM
Another OT question: Do you guys know some mass replace tools that are not sed or perl? Something like graphical...
(Not that I double-escaped it.)
doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7/qregexp.html#PatternSyntax-enum It supports Perl-syntax)and thats all :/ If i understood correctly
grepWin.
@Robik > Perl's lookbehind assertions, "independent" subexpressions and conditional expressions are not supported.
@hexa SO is written in C# I think, so I'm not sure weather u want to use it
2:29 PM
From that article.
I much prefer C++ over C#
but C# is hardly going to kill anyone
there's nothing inherently wrong with it, it's just not that great
As a long-time C# developer I agree with @DeadMG.
I can think of one wrong thing, forced classes. Unless they've changed that already?
If someone cares D is pwning too :P
C# is weak, but there's very little WTFery in it.
2:31 PM
@Nils I don't code for SO, so they can use whatever they want.
I'm really not interested in D
the Wikipedia page shows printf as compile-time output
I could never get the hang of D toolchain.
and I am most certainly not going to go to any language that has printf in it, still
I need to think about this recursion stuff a bit harder..
or unified type hierarchies
2:32 PM
heh the free software foundation seems to become the catholic church of software
@DeadMG printf is still in C++ :P
@DeadMG There is Tango(D libraries) which is C++-like so there is cout ^^
@Martinho: printf is in C++ for compatibility reasons, nothing more
lol
Isn't Tango D 1.0?
It is (yet), but who cares?
2:34 PM
they re-unified their libraries for D 2.0, I think
That's the thing about D, there's supposedly better D 2.0, but apparently nobody is using it.
The ecosystem just feels so weird.
@CatPlusPlus It's not popular, that doesn't means it is not awesome
Maybe it's just me.
You just used a quadruple negative there, I think, congratulations. :P
Triple
I only count three.
Not that it matters much.
2:38 PM
Okay, triple then.
@DeadMG C++ has printf
7 mins ago, by Martinho Fernandes
@DeadMG printf is still in C++ :P
7 mins ago, by DeadMG
@Martinho: printf is in C++ for compatibility reasons, nothing more
22 secs ago, by Martinho Fernandes
7 mins ago, by Martinho Fernandes
@DeadMG printf is still in C++ :P
20 secs ago, by Cat Plus Plus
22 secs ago, by Martinho Fernandes
7 mins ago, by Martinho Fernandes
@DeadMG printf is still in C++ :P
We need to go deeper!
2:41 PM
._.
I retord "PHP sucks." with "C++ sucks."
Yup.
It's not the same cardinal number of sucking, though.
Programming languages are like food. Every one has their own taste and opinions on what's best, but in the end they all become the same.
So C# would be Hamburger in America(so does Java)
Also the performance of PHP's official implementation is bloody awful.
2:45 PM
Not again T_T
@hexa Yeah, but PHP is a rotten egg.
don't hate
@CatPlusPlus PHP isnt that bad
What's worse?
Yes, it is.
2:46 PM
@Raynos: Yes, yes it is
@MartinhoFernandes .NET
At least it runs everywhere
@MartinhoFernandes I could say Perl, but I hesitate.
Find me a server that doesn't run PHP
Everything runs everywhere.
2:46 PM
@Raynos: A server that runs .NET
I prefer PHP to BF
@hexa dont compare programming lanugaes to food
@Robik I was pretty happy with my analogy :P
I also find web servers in PHP better then web servers in C++
2:47 PM
Shared hosting solutions are good for small, insignificant deployments, and nothing else.
So really, who cares.
Let's be serious here.
SERIOUS BUSINESS
I'm not saying PHP is a good language.
SRS BSNS ROOM
If you have a server, you can run whatever you want, that's not an argument.
I'm just saying its not the worst.
2:48 PM
What's worse?
VBA. Hands down. Can't argue that one ;)
visual basic should never have been invented
it should all have stopped in QB 4.5
It's in the worst tier of languages.
I started with QBasic, simply because it was there already
I put them both in the same shelf, along with Perl.
2:50 PM
@CatPlusPlus a sensible subset of PHP is just as good as a sensible subset of C++
Next your going to tell me javascript is a bad language.
Well, it is.
I will have to agree with cat
It has the same idiotic type system as PHP.
Maybe a little better, but still.
Oh your one of those
"we need strict typing"
Stop flaming PHP, pelae.
2:51 PM
Weak dynamic typing is goddamn awful.
PHP is a scripting language
it makes sense to have dynamic typing
Not really.
Really.
"Scripting language" is useless term.
Admittedly the internal type conversion rules in js are a bit silly
2:51 PM
how can that be a useless term?
@hexa It's mostly the combination of weak and dynamic that screws up everything.
Read what I'm typing, eh? Weak dynamic.
I personally prefer dynamic typing over strict typing
Are you saying ruby and python are horrible aswell
How does strong dynamic typing work?
@Raynos You've forgot Perl
Neither Ruby nor Python are weak-typed.
2:52 PM
Okay, a little lesson on typing disciplines. There is strong typing, and there is weak typing. There is also static typing, and dynamic typing.
go on please
You can have strong dynamic, you can have weak static.
Once you know the type conversion rules, it's fine.
(removed)
Weak typing is what you see in JS or PHP — weird automatic coercions all around, with little to no control about them.
2:53 PM
well defined automatic coercions.
Combine it with dynamic, where types of the values are not known up front, and you get shit.
Not really.
Sure entropy increases at a faster rate then say Java
The thing is, they're not well defined. They usually don't even make sense.
@CatPlusPlus read the ES5 specification
the type coercion is well defined.
Okay, so it is well defined, fine.
2:55 PM
JavaScript has nothing to do with browser implementations
0 + '1' is not a sensible expression, period.
If you code like that tho, you should be shot in the face.
You do code like that, because you never know the exact type.
It's an allowed expression, a silly one though
You do know the exact type
All functions have a well defined input
and when you call a function you know exactly what you are passing to it.
You're writing a library. You don't know.
2:56 PM
You're writing a library. You expose a well defined API
You know type, it's just hidden in gettype()
anything that's not defined in your API is undefined behaviour
There's plenty of undefined behaviour in C++ and C
There is UB in JS?
Undefined behaviour is not good.
In whatever language.
@CatPlusPlus So why you are programming in C++ then?
2:57 PM
Type bugs are nasty, and they do happen.
@Robik That's not relevant.
@MartinhoFernandes not really.
If you didn't have a type bug in weak dynamic typing, then you haven't wrote enough.
You simply do not need to handle edge cases in a library
Or used enough reusable code.
2:58 PM
you tell the library user "giving this range on input, that's what the output is"
Garbage in, garbage out.
@MartinhoFernandes I meant that programming in c++ may result in unexpected behavior
@Robik So? Whether @Cat programs in it or not is not relevant. And C++ is not a weak dynamic language.
the point is weak dynamic is not bad
C++ is at least statically typed, you can get type safety with that.

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