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6:01 PM
Same*. Goddammit, I can't Engrish.
Anyways, @sehe, how's work?
 
TIL if you're ever going to an amusement park and the weather is bad, don't go on the splash rides. And if you go, don't go four times in a row.
 
@JerryCoffin Except in the case of git "significant" effort is really very little effort. All that is required is a modicum of understanding of the underlying object store, or indeed, nothing more than git reflog
 
For any other questions, join Bartek's OpenGL bootcamp, where just like with Hogwarts, only likeable characters with magic potential end up.
 
@DomagojPandža Huh? Work? Erm. I guess it's ok. I'm keeping a low profile though.
 
@DomagojPandža lol
 
6:08 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Do you have enough time to work on your projects from all the work you have at Intel? :D
Nouning verbs, yay.
 
@DomagojPandža oh, well. I am determined and I have no life :P
 
Good hours?
Social life is overrated. :D
 
I prefer coding too.
It's robot telling me I should get out more
 
Robot is an incredibly social creature, despite being called Robot.
Honestly, he seems more human the a lot of us here. :P
 
He tends to spend a lot of time in meatspace.
 
6:13 PM
you are made of meat.
 
So, we're expecting some snow on friday.
 
Xeo
Hint: Robot was actually so jealous of meat, he became meat.
 
I can't wait for snow in July.
 
lol wat
Kindle edition is cheaper on .co.uk
 
@JerryCoffin That's where git fsck --lost-found --unreachable will report any unreachable refs and even lost (dangling) objects. The unreachables could be easily dated with something like git log --no-walk $(git fsck --unreachable | grep commit | cut -d\ -f3). On a random repository, that yielded paste.ubuntu.com/5696167
 
6:15 PM
WTF
 
@Xeo inb4 famous meat link
 
@ThePhD I heart he was shy.
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel You "♥ he was shy"?
4
 
@Xeo Freudian Slip~
@Xeo For Robot so loved the world that he gave his only begotten gears, so that he may come to bring us meat more everlasting. The Rusty Boltble, Martinho 13:37
3
 
6:17 PM
wait what these are different sites
 
Damn, sometimes I seriously contemplate getting a job with the police, but then I remember how Croatia's police force sucks. :(
 
> Due to copyright restrictions, the Kindle title you're trying to purchase is not available in your country: Poland.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I explained this already. If it gets really bad it can lead to DPD.
 
ARAFASFASDFADFASDFGSDA
 
@BartekBanachewicz I hate that.
 
6:19 PM
sincerely, FUCK YOU amazon.
2
 
Now you may go steal the book.
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz "Sincerely, FUCK YOU. Signed, Amazon"
 
@BartekBanachewicz You mutter mutilated genome sequence when angry?
 
DF dev diary
> It looks like the hydra is working correctly. Two heads snatched a lower arm a piece and then shook around and ripped them off at the same time. It's reasonably dangerous.
 
@sehe but Y? Y the uk has the same goddamn ebook for half the price and I can't buy it?
 
6:23 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I believe that's a chromosome, there
 
@Xeo He has a special place in my heart.
 
@sehe there's an "R"
 
@CatPlusPlus Ah, DF. Did he implement the multiplying heads behaviour, so that you have to pierce the heart or something similar instead of cutting of a head?
 
@BartekBanachewicz You live on expensive Internet wiring. :P
 
I don't really follow it too closely, I just noticed this in my RSS
 
6:24 PM
@DomagojPandža so I should connect to amazon.com in USA, right?
 
But why do you spell "why" as "y"
 
@BartekBanachewicz Someone should review it and then update The List.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I want to buy it. But they want to charge me double just because I'm in Poland
 
Those racist jerks.
 
D,, ?
 
6:26 PM
Best language ever.
 
what's something good-sounding to put on a resume as a detail of "computer science tutor"?
 
Is there a preview or a table of contents available of this
 
@CatPlusPlus yes. apibook.com or similar. I posted it today
 
> When Should You Avoid APIs?
Er
> Manager Classes
I hope the entirety of this chapter is "fuck you don't use this"
Ugh patterns
 
can you spare us the rant? If you want to review this book, write a proper review and link to it.
 
6:29 PM
> These are two very common creational design patterns that are good to understand deeply. Singleton is useful when you want to enforce that only one instance of an object is ever created. It has some rather tricky implementation aspects in C++ that I will cover, including initialization and multithreading issues
This is a review it sucks
 
cool. Can you shut the fuck up now, please?
 
Bartek why are you mad all the time
 
It has pimpl but no mention of smart pointers
 
Bartek... why can't we just be friends?
 
6:30 PM
I am not mad. I just can't stand this kind of attitude.
 
Does XBLA still take XNA gameS?
 
Oh, no, wait, there is
 
@Rapptz He likes to take things personally.
 
> A Singleton is a more elegant way to maintain global state, but you should always question whether you need global state.
No why no
 
@BartekBanachewicz What? Criticism towards things you like?
 
6:32 PM
Well the second part
 
@CatPlusPlus It's actually not that bad.
 
But it's not more elegant
 
@EtiennedeMartel No, I haven't read it so how can I like it or not?
 
Not in a million years
 
@BartekBanachewicz Then why should you care?
 
6:32 PM
oh, a singleton thread
 
@EtiennedeMartel Because my screen is being flooded with pointless rant?
 
It's C++03 book also
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's not like there's a discussion going on.
 
You linked to a book, I'm evaluating it
 
@EtiennedeMartel of course not. It's a rant.
@CatPlusPlus now I regret it.
 
6:33 PM
Also fuck off and use ignore or :frogout: or w/e
 
ignore is the last resort
 
It's very C++03 book
 
can I quote you? "It's not like design gets older"
 
Also it uses reserved identifiers in this thread-safe singleton implementation
Fuck patterns
 
@BartekBanachewicz Again, I don't get why you're bothered by that.
 
6:34 PM
@CatPlusPlus No.
 
> ScopedLock(&mutex);
 
People rant all the time on here.
 
Welp
Fuck patterns forever
 
@EtiennedeMartel at least they sometimes try to be constructive
 
@BartekBanachewicz What's the matter? It's a book.
 
6:35 PM
This code is not tested at all
 
@CatPlusPlus I appreciate your opinion.
 
A book you didn't read.
 
it's the same about everything.
 
And you react defensively when Pete the Whiny Cat starts criticising it.
 
I react defensively to the whining itself, not the book.
 
6:36 PM
PCOS is weird.
 
You don't like anything qq bloo bloo
This code is bad
 
You don't seem to be bothered when we rant against Java. Or Amazon.
 
It has nothing to do with API design
> You could consider adding an initialization routine for your library
if you don’t already have one.
And woop here's bad C++ API design
 
@EtiennedeMartel maybe it's just Cat who annoys me
 
@CatPlusPlus routine? It's been a while since I've seen that word.
 
6:37 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Good
void APIInitialize()
{
Mutex mutex;
ScopedLock(&mutex);
Singleton::GetInstance();
}
3
 
it should be subroutine
 
@BartekBanachewicz Or, maybe, as I've said before, you just take things personnally.
 
@CatPlusPlus do you really want me to plonk you or something?
 
--allow-file-access-from-files because editing a security property is too mainstream.
 
6:37 PM
But yeah, the Cat can get annoying as fuck sometimes.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes
 
well, if that's his wish.
 
Sometimes, he's lucky I can't teleport, 'cause I would love to slap him in the back of the head.
 
@FredOverflow One chance to get it right...
 
Cat is an acquired taste. :D
 
6:38 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Riffing is fun though
 
I guess it will be better for us all if the chat takes care of filtering things from Cat for me then
 
@ThePhD You already know that video? :)
 
> T'es chanceux d'pas avoir de tête, t'aurais une claque en arrière!
 
@FredOverflow Nah, just listening to it right now.
And he's right.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Best way is to not take Cat seriously. :D
 
6:39 PM
But seriously don't put this book on the list
 
You only have 1 chance to get it right.
 
At least until I learn to take things less seriously
 
Because if you don't, ENDLESS "IT'S NOT NICE TO WORK WITH Q_Q_Q_Q"
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, you get angry when we bash things you like.
 
It's C++03 and it's bad
 
6:39 PM
It's not you we're bashing.
 
Hello owning raw pointers
 
@Rapptz I just noticed that standard C++ is already 15 years old!
 
> TIP Dependency injection makes it easier to test code that uses Singletons
 
Also, the Cat hates everything. Probably because he hates himself, and also, I'm totally a psychologist.
 
with Cat, I am not sure
 
6:40 PM
Ahahaha
 
Or at least I am less sure than with anyone else here.
so as I said, I want to grow up in peace
 
@CatPlusPlus Erm. DI makes it easier to not use singletons.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Cat adores us. <3
 
So, yes, in a way, it's true.
 
Fuck patterns forever
 
6:40 PM
But it's some sort of twisted logic.
 
@FredOverflow Huh? Isn't standard C++ from 1998?
 
It's an entire chapter about fucking singleton
 
@CatPlusPlus what are patterns?
 
Cargo culting
 
6:41 PM
@Rapptz C++03 is a bug fix revision of C++98.
 
@CatPlusPlus, fuck boost.variant, right? it uses a pattern
 
@EtiennedeMartel and?
 
> The Monostate pattern allows multiple instances of a class to be created where all of those
instances use the same static data.
 
@Rapptz No idea. Just wanted to showoff.
 
lol
 
6:42 PM
@CatPlusPlus Isn't that flyweight?
 
@Abyx It doesn't matter whether it uses a pattern
That's not the point
@EtiennedeMartel vOv
 
@CatPlusPlus oh and what's the point?
 
// monostate.h
class Monostate
{
public:
int GetTheAnswer() const { return sAnswer; }
private:
static int sAnswer;
};
// monostate.cpp
int Monostate::sAnswer = 42;
@Abyx Designing with brain not ~patterns~
 
@EtiennedeMartel nope
 
Also this code makes sense
Static members are now a pattern
 
6:44 PM
The problem with patterns is that it's easy to use them for their own sake instead of treating them as what they are: a tool for a specific problem.
 
@CatPlusPlus actually it's a singleton
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah
@Abyx Actually not really but w/e it's retarded chapter anyway
 
From my experience, people who force, group, make and endorse patterns are usually people who failed at actually writing software, like teachers and professors. Same goes for music professors. They like to brand everything in some genre, musicians don't give a shit about that. They just want to make good music.
 
Some benefits of the Monostate pattern are that it
• Allows multiple instances to be created.
• Offers transparent usage because no special GetInstance() method is needed.
• Exhibits well-defined creation and destruction semantics using static variables
 
The problem are not the patterns themselves, the problem is the entire consulting industry that formed around treating patterns as a religion.
 
6:45 PM
Yes
4 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
Cargo culting
 
@CatPlusPlus How does that work?
sAnswer is private
 
But, yeah, saying "fuck patterns" is an acceptable shorthand.
 
^ patterns
 
Oh wait never mind
 
@Rapptz Yes? So?
 
6:46 PM
@BartekBanachewicz There's no Y
 
I'm looking at it wrong, sorry.
 
problem is that the cat doesn't understand how to use patterns, so it simply say "fuck patterns"
 
Oh look more people inventing retarded facts about me
> As a further real-world example, the Second Life source code uses the Monostate pattern for its LLWeb class.
And then follows a class with all static members
 
it even doesn't know when to use singletons...
 
Second Life. Ahahahahah, is that a counter-argument? Because that shit sucks.
 
6:47 PM
This is a book about API design
 
@Abyx Aren't you the guy who constantly writes weird hacky stuff?
 
@Abyx Yes, never, because FUCK THIS UNTESTABLE RETARDED PIECE OF SHIT
 
This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, but just throwing that out there.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Abyx's abyxmal code.
 
@EtiennedeMartel nah, I don't write weird stuff
 
6:48 PM
Yeah I don't want to talk about his code
 
Ell
I want to ask this again, are singletons ever justified? I want to say shared access to an external resource. but idk
 
@CatPlusPlus it's testable. you should just use DI
 
@Abyx Only malware.
 
@EtiennedeMartel never.
 
@Abyx Singletons aren't testable.
Singletons are about bumfucking the Law of Demeter.
 
6:48 PM
@Ell I haven't found a usage for them in almost 10 years that superceded some other approach.
 
Singletons are lazy design.
 
Ell
fair enough
 
"It's testable, you should just not use fucking singletons"
 
@Rapptz No, you're confusing a philosophical concept with [what would have to be an extremely serious form of] a psychiatric condition.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit He's been talking about it for days on end.
 
6:49 PM
It's when you can't be arsed to properly determine who needs what, so you just dump everything in globals and say "let others handle it".
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit "How do I know you guys are real?" etc
 
Ell
What if I provide a Monitor class representing an actual monitor, how would I let users access it? For example if there is only one physical monitor, should there only be one instance of Monitor?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Nobody will ever need to use that carefully arranged global environment in another part of the program!
 
He's been doing it constantly, so obviously the thing I leaned for was that he might has solipsism syndrome which can possibly lead to DPD.
 
Seriously this is so brittle it's not even funny
Also makes refactoring so fun you just want to kill yourself
 
6:50 PM
@CatPlusPlus Reminds me of one of our Java devs who's used to writing in "enterprise" settings and came to hate patterns.
 
@Ell nope
 
1 in 3 Java libraries is ~patterns~
 
He told me that he saw so many systems that were described as "modular" but in practice couldn't work if one of the components were missing.
@Ell You give the monitor to the users.
Don't make them fetch it.
 
@Ell there should be a MonitorsEnumerator and so on
 
I just have no words to describe how delicate and break-prone global environment is
 
6:52 PM
@CatPlusPlus Exquisitely derptastic?
 
STUPID PHONE BROWSER Y U NOT ALLOW UPLOAD IMAGE OF MY BEER TO ANNOY OTHER LOUNGERS STUCK IN LABS/OFFICES?
 
@DomagojPandža Cat-like.
 
Ahahaha back to this book
 
user142019
Dammit LLVM.
 
6:53 PM
In a recent retrospective interview, authors of the original design patterns book stated that the only
pattern they would consider removing from the original list is Singleton. This is because it is essen-
tially a way to store global data and tends to be an indicator of poor design
 
weird gravatar
 
Ell
@Abyx How would that work? I just create the instance myself and allow the programmers to reference it?
 
user142019
Y u mix references and pointers.
 
After a chapter explaining how to implement it
 
meh, if you use DI, you don't care whether there is global state or not.
 
6:53 PM
Darn. Another llonesmiz "zombie Phenix" account: stackoverflow.com/users/2266005/user2266005 /cc @R.MartinhoFernandes
The guy is positively confusing the hell out of me.
 
I use actual design where dependencies are clear and all but hey whatever works for you
 
@CatPlusPlus Really?
 
Even the GoF hates singleton?
 
This is the excerpt
@EtiennedeMartel Yes
 
Ell
6:54 PM
Ahh the cat seeped through the filter!
 
Even singleton authors admitted that singleton is retarded as fuck
 
@Ell it doesn't matter who creates the instance
 
Woa. That's it guys, we got our ultimate answer to "why is the singleton bad": the GoF hates it.
 
user142019
The singleton hates the GoF.
 
@CatPlusPlus I guess we all make mistakes.
 
6:55 PM
And this is well known too
And yet people continue to go "vOv it works"
 
@EtiennedeMartel That's very very old news, you know
 
No return result
. You cannot return a result from a constructor. This means that you cannot sig-
nal an error during the initialization of an object by returning a NULL pointer, for instance
(although you can signal an error by throwing an exception within a constructor).
 
@CatPlusPlus One of these days, you gotta tell me what "vOv" means
 
@sehe Why did nobody tell me then?
 
@sehe It's a shrug
 
6:56 PM
@EtiennedeMartel You're not important enough
 
^ this book is not very good
 
@CatPlusPlus He says it like it's a bad thing.
@sehe I THOUGHT YOU LOVED ME
 
Point
 
user142019
ers are bad.
 
Abstract Base Classes
 
6:57 PM
YOU WERE HIS BROGRAMMER!
 
@EtiennedeMartel I might, but that doesn't mean you get phonecalls by the members of the GoF
 
> singleton | ensures a class has only one instance -- that's a wrong singleton.
 
:lol:
 
@Rapptz I think you're reaching somewhat. There's nothing evidently unhealthy about posing that question.
 
6:57 PM
Factories
Null pointers
 
@Rapptz It's also mostly a common misconception that harbouring such doubts has anything to do with depersonalization
 
Owning raw pointers
 
Don't be so incoherent!
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Not according to my psychology classes :|
 
Fuck this chapter I've seen enough
 
6:58 PM
@CatPlusPlus you already said that
 
user142019
Burn that book.
 
I know, that's how many times it comes up
 
Cat Plus Plus is a singleton existing in the global namespace of Earth. He was instantiated 21 years ago and the world returns that same instance every time you query him.
 
anyway, factories are OK.
 
@Zoidberg WTF happened to your grav?
 
user142019
6:59 PM
AbstractSingletonProxyFactoryBean
 
as well as null pointers, if you check'em
 
@Abyx often bad for the environment
 
Factories are okay, yeah
 
@sehe environment?
 
Screw you if you make a class for a stateless factory though
 
user142019
6:59 PM
LLVM is wonderful.
 

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