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4:11 PM
@Xeo maybe he is a compile-time metaprogram
TMP skynet?
 
sbi
@JohannesSchaublitb However, the document linked from @James' message on the right is from 2010-04-11. Where's the real FDIS?
 
@sbi: Huh? "Date: 2011-04-11"
 
sbi
Haha, it seems my subversive comment (in place of @James', which got deleted) wasn't discovered yet!
@JohnDibling Major brainfart, rebooting sbi... <carrier lost
 
@jalf lol
@sbi rebooted yet? :P
 
4:28 PM
hello every one...:)
 
hey
 
@Miss hello
Is it me or have I got a suspicion here.... :P
 
@tony, hi
 
@Miss how are you?
 
4:31 PM
@tony, fine thanks...
 
@Miss I'm glad to hear you're fine :)
 
well, why "Tina memorial" is written as topic line?
 
@Miss Long story.... read the transcript of the last 2 days
 
hmm
now where is she?
 
cpx
lol
 
4:34 PM
but we had a user Tina whom was suspended 2 days ago and that's where it all started
 
ahahn
well why did she suspend?
 
@Miss as I said, you should read the transcript, I could be here for hours trying to tell you the story
 
hmm
well who is Alf, i read that in transcript
 
@Tony ;)
 
what happen @jalf
did i ask any wrong question that i should not ask?
 
4:39 PM
@Miss Alf is a user that was here
 
@Miss Tina had a similar writing style as yours
 
oh reallly
 
You should fill her spot here :)
 
@StackedCrooked :P
 
well where is the guy "Alf" ?
 
4:41 PM
@Miss so how are you liking stackoverflow, I noticed you've only been here 2 days?
 
Why is Alf being referred to in the past tense? Has he de-reged?
 
Let's just be honest here. Tina, we all think your ban/suspension was ridiculous, so I'm not going to object to you coming back, but be aware that Jeff or the moderators might find out, and then your IP will likely be banned.
 
hmm
 
@Miss not here.... we don't know, he has not been here for quite a while
 
well my friend told me about this site
 
4:42 PM
I don't think alf has been here since then btw
 
ahhn i guess its sad story..:)
 
@Miss sad and smiley in one line....
 
@tony ahhnan
anyways i hope both will come again
hope for the best...:)
 
@Miss yes indeed :)
@JohnDibling no, he's just not been here for quite a while
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: On the second day, she rose again
 
4:47 PM
@david what do you mean?
 
Maybe I should make that a little less obvious... but with all these Christian festivities coming in the near future... I just felt like (mis)quoting the bible
 
@david, what do you mean by this: "On the second day, she rose again"
ahhn its bible words is it?
 
@Miss: Some are speculating that you are Tina.
 
in the Christian religion, Christ is crucified, and the bible says that: "On the third day, he rose again"
 
@john, how can you say?
 
Als
4:49 PM
@DavidRodríguezdribeas: Did she rose again? really?
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas Holy crap!
 
@Miss we're not stupid. You talk the same way, you immediately asked about alf (and about tina) ;)
but like I said, it's ok with us
 
I dunno, ask around
 
just keep in mind that if one of the moderators finds out, your ip (or entire ip range, if they're in a bad mood) will likely be banned permanently
 
@jalf Maybe I should remove that message...
 
4:50 PM
@David: I think so.
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas hmm yeah, it might be asking for trouble
 
@jalf Epic incognito fail, if you ask me :)
 
or make it more subtle, at least
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Void.
 
@StackedCrooked very epic ;)
 
Als
4:51 PM
wohoo this is like the movies!
 
@JohnDibling subtle
 
Als
@Tony: Darn i would be damned if had missed this!
haha
 
@JohnDibling thanks
 
@Als what an epic moment, just unfortunate @sbi isn't here to be part of the moment :P
this chat provides good entertainment at times :)
 
Als
4:53 PM
@Tony: Exactly....After all the 2 days and whoa!
 
@Als yep....
 
Als
Btw...What happend about Tina/Model her/his ban stays or was it revoked?
 
oh, I should probably mention that even though the suspension was too much, there was a reason for it, so it'd probably be wise of you to try to avoid doing the things you were suspended for :)
 
@Als still there
@jalf I love your bluntness :)
 
Als
@Miss: Maybe its inappropriate to ask...but i can't just control it...Are you Tina/Model?
 
4:56 PM
@Als like that's not obvious....
 
@Tony You may call me Mr. Subtle ;)
3
 
@jalf yes! You definitely are the most subtle around here :P
 
Als
@Tony: Frankly, It just gets better and better every day...and i find it hard to believe
its all happening....this is supposed to be C++ forum...!!
 
@Als yea well, at least we have something to converse about....
@Als C++ is a mere subset of the conversation here.... it occasionally brought up in mere flights of distraction....
 
Als
@Tony: Atleast through this I am getting to knw a few peeps who hang in around here better and the thins they stand for.
 
4:58 PM
@Als yes true :)
 
Als
@Tony: Agreed on the C++ part
 
@Als: I stand for pizza.
 
@JohnDibling having pizza tonight, wootage
 
Als
@JohnDibling: This is like one epic movie ....no one should miss...though only few of us have had the fortune to see it unfold @Tony: *winks
Grab your Pizzas...Booze...Lets not miss this!
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: static_cast<void*>(&tina)
that's not going to get anyone in trouble, is it?'
 
5:02 PM
probably only you :P
 
ah, that's ok
 
Als
@Tony: The Do you feel like the kid is wanting to learn...I see the same persistence...I just hope SO ain't turning down a kid who wants to learn but is a lil mischievous perhaps.
 
I like how some people think I actually sit there and search hours long for the cout < myint bug :)
 
@JohannesSchaublitb I like how they think you need hours to find it ;)
 
@Johannes: They just want to be the one to answer your question. :)
 
5:11 PM
@JohannesSchaublitb I may be dumb, but I have no idea what you are referring to
@Als hope so too, but since she's being cast to a void* pointer I'm not sure what's gonna happen
 
sbi
38 mins ago, by Miss
ahahn
If I had any doubt, this would have cleared it.
 
@sbi tell tale sign......
 
Als
@Tony: Our very own Grumpy old man is here @Sbi, surprised?
 
@sbi I'm dying.... this is more then a mere LOL
 
Als
Me and @Tony thought you would miss this epic moment
 
5:14 PM
@sbi now if that ain't raw hardcore persistence, then I don't know what is
@Als perhaps a new reason for grumpiness
 
Als
@Tony: The reason being...You actually managed to have a dialog with the person!!
 
sbi
@Tony I had to get the kids to bed. But I can catch up with what happened.
 
@Tony everything is a new reason for grumpiness, with the right attitude
 
@Als you mean Miss?
@sbi oh ok
 
sbi
@Tony C++ is something we might discuss between discussions of sex, censorship, and revolution!
 
5:18 PM
@sbi I say W00T!!!
 
Als
@Tony: The Q pattern seems same..so do the words..and the persistence....Let the person learn...looking atleast at the persistence!
 
sbi
@JohnDibling I had pizza today, but I didn'#t stand for it, i sat while eating. But then, I'm an old man...
 
ok be back in a bit, Pizza is here!! :) :)
@sbi I'm gonna be sitting, but not because I consider myself old :P
 
sbi
@jalf AT this point, anything might get us into trouble. They have us...what's the saying?...under their radar?
 
Als
@sbi: Darn.....You are missing my fav quote old man!
what was it again
Its "You have been noticed" ;)
 
sbi
5:21 PM
@Als There's always the transcript. (Slowly catching up here.)
 
Als
@sbi: I have had a good epic surprise just before i move out...Have a good @All
 
sbi
@Tony Persistence alone isn't enough. Just being persistent might lead you to annoy people. For persistence to be admired, it needs a few more ingredients.
@jalf May I make you the first acolyte in my Church of Grumpiness? It seems you have an intuitive grasp of the matter. :)
 
@Als Is this a C++ forum, or is it le ressistance!
 
sbi
@Als ??
@DavidRodríguezdribeas For more than fifteen years, C++ has resisted the onslaught of a constant stream of popular languages trying to overtake it. For all it's life, C++ has resisted the steady pull downwards by it's mother, C. They all failed to take us down. If the C++ room isn't the perfect place for resistance to gather, then I don't know where to look for it!
3
 
@sbi of course. I've studied hard to get to where I am today ;)
 
sbi
5:30 PM
@jalf Well, should you ever get to Berlin (or me to Copenhagen, though that seems less likely), you will be initiated by me buying you a beer. Deal?
 
@sbi deal
 
5:44 PM
One good reason is that it's still not weekend.
 
sbi
@PiotrLegnica What are you referring to?
 
29 mins ago, by jalf
@Tony everything is a new reason for grumpiness, with the right attitude
 
sbi
@PiotrLegnica What do you need to be looking for reasons to be grumpy for? I thought you're doing Java? Isn't that all the reason one would ever need for being grumpy?
(And please read those newbie hints, so you can learn how to refer to specific postings.)
 
Eh, I know how. I'm lazy and from IRC. I'm doing Java on work week, so that's connected.
 
sbi
Since you asked, @Miss: When Tina/Model's messages suddenly disappeared, we asked what had happened to her (meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/87152/…), and @Tony finally found out that she had been suspended. Most of us considered this a very bad move on behalf of SO.
Especially so, since it seemed to have been triggered by me referring to her on a completely unrelated topic. Many asked whether they should now better watch out for what they say, lest they suddenly quietly disappear. But what really got us up and in arms was when Jeff revealed that Tina allegedly is male, something that Tina/Model her/himself never mad known.
I consider publishing private information about one of your customers topping everything else we have seen and disagreed with in the last few weeks.
This room was quite in turmoil for large parts yesterday, and very little else was discussed, least of all C++. This also lead to almost heated exchanges between some of us and Jeff.
While we all freely admit that none of us was really happy about Tina/Model and her/his demanding way of asking silly questions, and we all had been quite annoyed by her/him once in a while and not a few had her/him blocked at least for periods of times, most of us very much disagree with how this was handled, especially the release of private information.
Now, should Tina/Model consider to come back here, sHe should be very wary. The team does monitor IP addresses of users, does catch users that keep logging in under new names, and does block those IP addresses, or even IP adress ranges.
If someone would be interested in this, there's the transcript from yesterday to read.
Well, I guess that's all I have to say about that, @Miss.
 
6:05 PM
@sbi you had the courage to explain that all again...
I did not
 
more patience than courage, I suppose ;)
 
sbi
6:21 PM
Um, is SO unreachable for you, too?
 
nope, I am currently browsing some questions
(making time before drinks)
 
sbi
@DavidRodríguezdribeas So it must be on my end.
@Xeo, do you copy? Do you have problems, too? What's your provider?
 
Xeo
@sbi No problems for me
But I think I'm gonna go now, since I'm pretty sleepy thanks to not sleeping last night
 
hi everyone
anybody here know any easy ways to qualify complexity in a C++ program?
as in code complexity - not big O complexity
 
Xeo
Well, see ya tomorrow guys o/
 
6:27 PM
1. Check if it prints "Hello world". 2. If not, it's complex.
 
@PiotrLegnica :D
 
sbi
@Xeo Oh well. Are you with Telekom?
Ah, never mind, it's working again.
 
anybody here read "Evaluating the Impact of Object-Oriented Design on Software Quality" by Abreu and Melo (IEEE Proceedings of METRICS '96)?
 
@RonaldLandheerCieslak number of expressions inside statement, number of statements inside function, number of functions inside class, number of classes inside namespace...
@RonaldLandheerCieslak No, do you have a link?
 
6:32 PM
@RonaldLandheerCieslak take the length of the source code in bytes. That's a rough measure of complexity
if you want to be fancy, you could somehow correlate it with the number of lines as well. Or perhaps the number of functions
 
or of course, just read the code and write down your impression of its complexity :D
 
I don't think that those measures are really applicable... a few lines of metaprogramming amount to the same complexity than many more lines of regular OO like code...
 
the idea is to have it as part of a design review checklist
@DavidRodríguezdribeas I hadn't thought of that :)
 
6:34 PM
7
Q: What to watch out for when converting a std::string to a char* for C function?

TonyI have read many posts asking the question on how to convert a C++ std::string or const std::string& to a char* to pass it to a C function and it seems there is quite a few caveat's in regards to doing this. One has to beware about the string being contiguous and a lot of other things. The ...

 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas yep, but it is easy, and it is a way to quantify complexity. It's just not very accurate in all cases
 
sbi
@Feeds I did that, after my comment hung there for a day or two. Feel free to object.
 
anyway, for a design review, I'd be happy with a checkbox saying "consider the complexity of the design". Isn't the point in a review that it's supposed to be manual, anyway? Rather than just "apply algorithm X to the source code, and read the resulting complexity number", which can be done outside the review, so it won't waste everyone's time
 
@sbi you did what?
 
@jalf yeah, but I need to provide some pointers on how it's supposed to be done
 
sbi
6:37 PM
@Tony That Feed guy throws in all SO questions under the c++-faq tag. I did that retag.
 
e.g. a template or and example, or something
 
@sbi who is the Feed guy anyway, is it a bot or something?
 
what's "towel day"?
 
sbi
4 hours ago, by sbi
Towel Day is celebrated every 25 May as a tribute by fans of the late author Douglas Adams. On this day, fans carry a towel with them to demonstrate their love for the books and the author, as referenced in Adams's The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. The commemoration was first held in 2001, two weeks after Adams's death on 11 May 2001. Origin The original quotation that referenced the greatness of towels is found in Chapter 3 of Adams's work The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. The original article that began Towel Day was posted at "Binary Freedom," a short-lived open source fo...
 
6:50 PM
I gotta read that book!
(though I don't think I'll ever believe the answer to the ultimate question is 42 - it's obviously 36)
 
sbi
@RonaldLandheerCieslak Actually it's a trilogy of six books, IIRC, which recently acquired a sequel by some other author.
 
ok, then I should say:
I gotta read *those* *books*
 
@sbi Thx :)
 
@sbi btw, wouldn't that make it a sexalogy?
 
@RonaldLandheerCieslak no
 
6:59 PM
hexalogy would be the latin form prefix for six "logy"..
but I'm pretty sure tri is greek..
 
And hex (ἕξ) means six in greek not latin.
 
it's a trilogy because it's always been called a trilogy
 
sex- is latin.
 
it was a trilogy when there were 3 books, and then it became a trilogy in 4, 5 and 6 parts
deal with it ;)
 
@MartinhoFernandes ah - mixed 'em up then
 
7:02 PM
@MartinhoFernandes I'd have thought sex was pretty much universal
 
Number prefixes are prefixes derived from numbers or numerals. In English and other European languages, they are used to coin numerous series of words, such as unicycle - bicycle - tricycle, dyad - triad - tetrad, biped - quadruped, September - October - November, decimal - hexadecimal, sexagenarian - octogenarian, centipede - millipede, etc. There are two principal systems, taken from Latin and Greek, each with several subsystems; in addition, Sanskrit occupies a marginal position. There is also an international set of SI prefixes, which are used in the metric system, and which for the mos...
fun stuff :)
when a newbie adds a new chunk of code to one of your components (libraries, apps, whatever), what do you guys watch out for most? Coupling? Anti-patterns? ...?
 
7:36 PM
Hey guys, did you know the end of the world is scheduled for next month?
 
@RonaldLandheerCieslak Code.
What could he do that would be worse?
 
sbi
@JohnDibling An apocalyptic Christian Internet radio?! Oh please! Where would posting such links lead us? Next thing you know, we're discussing sex!
 
@sbi: apocalyptic Christians don't have sex. They procreate.
 
@JohnDibling nah - they eat fruit until they're full (be fruitful) and practice their multiplication tables (multiply)
 
8:10 PM
@jalf I think it's safe to say that celibacy is not an inherited trait anyway.
 
@JerryCoffin I'd guess natural selection would take care of that - it is, after all, the survival of the fittest to reproduce
although celibacy != sterility
 
oh, poor tina ;)
anyway, does any of you know where I can find "teach yourself programming in ten years", the pdf?
 
@RonaldLandheerCieslak thanks. I thought it was a longer book, that's why I asked :)
 
sbi
8:59 PM
BTW, Alf has been at SO not even an hour ago: stackoverflow.com/users/464581/alf-p-steinbach.
 
9:16 PM
@RonaldLandheerCieslak Fittest to reproduce does no good until/unless you actually do reproduce.
 
evening all!
what's new?
can sb explain in a bit more detail what the difference is between the compiler generated operator= and the one talked about in the question
0
Q: assignment operator return a reference to *this in C++

Don LunI read about this from "Effective c++" ,this is Col.10. It say it's a good way to have assignment operators return a reference to *this. I wrote a code snippet to test this idea. I overridden the assignment operator here.And tested it. Everything is fine. But when I remove that operator overridin...

 
9:34 PM
@JohnDibling Neat, I won't have to write those test scripts after all.
 
@Tony Uhm... that the one in the question does not actually copy the member? Not, seriously, the problem is that if you take sentences out of the context in which they were written you get misunderstandings...
 
@JerryCoffin exactly, which is why celibacy isn't likely to be hereditary
 
@JohnDibling: yeah, I'm getting married on judgement day.
 
Basically, if you overload operator= you should return a reference to the object. That does not mean that you should always define operator=, the rule of the three (might be extended to 5 with c++0x) is there to help you decide...
 
@StephenCanon congratulations!
 
9:41 PM
thanks!
 
@JohnDibling It is always better to bet that the world will not end. The pragmatic rationale is that if you are right you don't look like a fool the following day. And then, if you are wrong there will not be anyone around to make smart remarks about your abilities as future foreseer.
3
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas Just to four, a move constructor. The assignment operator, if the parameter is by-value, uses both.
 
@StephenCanon: congrats!
@GMan i.e. if you use the copy and swap idiom, but if you don't, then most probably you need the fifth. Not that I know... I just read a remark somewhere some time ago :P
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas Ya.
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas question is really whether copy and swap is more efficient if you can move
 
9:45 PM
@RonaldLandheerCieslak @RonaldLandheerCieslak Copy-and-swap with move is Copy/Move-and-swap.
 
@RonaldLandheerCieslak With the copy and swap, I don't think it can be less efficient, and since it requires less code I would go for it. Then again I could be proven wrong
 
move is always the most efficient option
unless you're going to start RVO/NRVO
 
Just out of curiosity... I read this offer in careers the other day, I just thought that the headline was different. Any of you has actually read it?
 
@David: Certainly is different
 
+1 for different
 
9:57 PM
@DavidRodríguezdribeas I'd seen the deadline, but not much more. Looking at it, I can't say I think I missed much. They seem to think the biggest draw is great snacks...
 
Where did they get the guy to actually write that? I think it is the first job offer I have read that made me think I would not want to work there ever
 
I don't mind the tone. It's the VB that would keep me away.
 
honestly, I found it certainly interesting
if I was in VB/SQL field, maybe
 
It has its interesting parts:
• Great tools. Weapons in the code warrior armory include [...] SourceGear Vault (we gave VSS a Viking funeral in 2009)
WTF!!! I took them until 2009 to ditch VSS *and* they have got the *closest* thing ever and they call that *Great tools*
That line alone is enough to drive me away, but here is another pearl:
Code snobs need not apply either. You won't like it here, and you'll be the first one against the wall when the Nerf gun apocalypse comes. Yes, I know C# is the CLR language "professionals" use and Microsoft loves it more than VB. No, we are not doing anything remotely fancy with design patterns or development methodologies.
 
it's an entertaining read
 
10:07 PM
If I were looking for a job, I would have stopped reading right around "Houston", and never gotten to the whole VSS thing.
 
10:26 PM
@StephenCanon Once when I got an email from a recruiter about a job in Houston, I mailed back and said I'd need a minimum base salary of $100K, + at least a 100K/year bonus just for having to live in Houston. He didn't seem too amused...
 
10:54 PM
argh
why are banks so fucking useless?
 
@JerryCoffin: I think I would demand more than that =)
And @DeadMG: because they don't get your money by being useful.
 
foo& operator=(const foo& obj) ; Returned value is useful only when we have compound assignments( obj3 = obj2 = obj1 ;). Is the terminology compound assignment correct ?
 
@Mahesh Sounds reasonable.
 
Aren't +=, -=, etc. called compound assignments?
 
@PiotrLegnica Ya.
 
11:06 PM
@GMan - Thanks.
 
@PiotrLegnica: yes.
(§ 5.17)
 
11:29 PM
@StephenCanon Anymore, I would -- that was around 1998 or so...
 
11:41 PM
Hm. Has anyone heard of a language where return types were implemented as an output parameter, always? You'd never make a copy.
 
11:59 PM
Fortran?
 
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