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3:49 AM
> So here we are. Sort of like the Russians, when you start failing, teamwork is the first casualty and everybody points fingers and snark at everybody else, and assumes the worst of each other. StackExchange can't decide whether ChatGPT is public enemy #1 or our replacement.
Sigh. How many times will I have to explain to people what really lead to the situation in my country?
 
4:01 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine But communism is bad and this is bad so this is like communism
 
It all went downhill after they killed Jeff Atwood with an icepick
 
don't worry, comrade, the Menshemod party is not entirely purged yet!
 
4:24 AM
Hahaha
 
4:58 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine You mean it wasn't snark?
 
5:32 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine It’s all Finland’s fault.
 
5:50 AM
1
Q: Comment flags not processed for ten days?

Kelly BundyUsually it just takes a few hours until my comment flags are processed. But since June 2, almost all of my flags are still "pending" (43 of them). Why? Did something change?

 
 
1 hour later…
7:11 AM
heh
when I was active I ran into that guy quite a bit
a little surprised he didn't already incidentally know, but maybe Meta really just is that unintentionally secretive
>StackExchange can't decide whether ChatGPT is public enemy #1 or our replacement.
Huh. Strange dichotomy to me; I would think it's natural for any community to strongly resist being replaced
 
7:45 AM
@KarlKnechtel SE doesn't allow featuring anything about the strike. So, not really unintentionally secretive. The posts about the strike entered Hot Meta Posts but that only rotates them every hour or two and only for four days. Easy to miss even if you do glance at HMP. Which many don't.
 
Also people who are on strike and have notified this in their usernames could spread the word out...yet by being on strike, they wouldn't. It's a weird situation where the strike itself is reducing its exposure.
 
Gotta keep posting answers on the Meta SO post.
 
8:00 AM
I mentioned this in the Tavern if someone wants to spread info about the strike without being annoying...
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, Jun 5 at 2:17, by Meta Andrew T.
@Starshipisgoforlaunch You can change your username to indicate that you're on strike, use your "About me" to express yourself, post questions and/or answers on the main site to get your username noticed.
perhaps also add "meta" for SO's scale
 
@NewPosts or maybe reopen this post, give it a couple more likes and allow it to be seen in HMP? (Especially since we have only one there for now)
 
@AndrewT. Erm, doesn't work for me.
 
-1
Q: Ohwait... mods on strike? Time for a few days of honest, forthright comments!

Martin JamesOk, so the mods are on strike for well-known reasons. I might be a bit slow on this, but it only just ooccurred to me - a mod strike means a suspension strike! So, maybe the long-suffering curators have a few days to 'strike' back against the hopeless, selfish deadbeats who just want their entir...

 
@NewPosts @SamuelLiew, dupe target you linked to this post (strike announcement), while implies slowing down speed of flags handling, doesn't specifically mentions it. Also, I think it is reasonable to assume, that OP is not the only one with this question. Shouldn't it be reopened, provided with the answer (something what Zoe said in comments and link to mentioned strike announcement) and allowed to be seen in HMP?
 
Oh, Martin.
 
8:37 AM
to be fair, the faster ordinary users come to similar conclusions, the sooner the strike will have a visible effect on the site.
the next logical escalation is a wave of mod resignations and/or firings, and an attempt by the company to replace the mod team.
 
i went full meta
 
If they ask for new mods, I wonder how many would actually apply; it's not like there were loads last time.
 
@E_net4isonstrike There is probably a cream for that.
 
0
Q: What flag to use for answers that say "use ChatGPT to fix your errors"?

starballI just came across an answer post that said "Use chatGPT to help correct your errors". I assume this is flag-worthy. How should I flag this? "Not an Answer" seems like a safe choice (and it's the choice I ended up going with (I wasn't thinking too hard about it at the time, and was in the middle...

 
And those they rely to volunteer are also probably joining in with the strike from a curation side.
 
8:45 AM
@ThomA They'd probably need to start appointing moderators instead of electing them. Things would get uglier.
 
🥳🎉
 
@ThomA Had to refresh my memory on this - last time we had 6 nominees. Of those 4 are striking. Henry isn't officially but has significantly reduced his activity and still supports the strike. So, there is only one of the candidates left: the Music.SE mod Johnny Bones.
 
9:48 AM
@markalex I mean, mods going on strike is a good reason for a flag slowdown
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine I agree. It's just if we can't feature strike announcement, we can at least keep posts mentioning it visible in HMP. Or am I wrong here?
 
That user has been active every day for awhile, markalex, I suspect that even if it were featured, they wouldn't have noticed; the posts asking about the action were in the HMP for several days they were active on.
 
Well, I don't think it will catch everybody's attention. Damn, nothing sort of mod message to every user will. But at least, it might some views from those who are not regular.
 
10:20 AM
0
Q: How to handle the "questions" those provide MCVE generated by Chat GPT?

Amit JoshiI came across following question: is it possible to import dcm files into nextjs. It says following in body: is there anyway i can solve this issue? i tried to ask chat-gpt and it didn't help as much that's what chat-gpt's solution module.exports = { webpack: (config) => { config.module.ru...

 
> But whoever posts the original question clearly has an incentive to thoroughly check any answer.
No, this is community run.
 
> Its actually a very valid question. And this person has down voted it.
Breathe in deeply. That's how you'll get used to the stench.
 
11:08 AM
-5
Q: Should stack overflow's moderator terms be changed?

helloDestroyerOfWorldsSo I've been banned for a day from asking any questions on stack overflow. I understand the purposes behind this and I agree with it. However, in this case I have been treated unfairly. My question was deleted by user decezed, so I contacted stack moderators and asked them to just have a word w...

 
Ugh, why would you migrate this
 
11:38 AM
@E_net4isonstrike Dunno, maybe fun?
Although, I'm OK with the amount of entertainment for the moment. I don't really need more.
 
It's like talking to a brick wall...
 
Also, I'm quite inclined to consider "decezed" to be an attack hinging on reading it as "deceased". OP has been notified of the correct spelling but hasn't tried to fix it.
 
OP is blindly flailing about. I like to think that the typo and failure to correct it is not done on purpose.
Still, it is quite aggravating ^^"
 
Having read the comment thread, this seems like trolling. OP goes on about CoC/moderator agreement and breaking them and yet goes "But I'm a new user, I didn't know" for topic quite a lot more basic than those.
 
gdi I was in the middle of an epically... cathartic answer
and it got locked
 
11:46 AM
@QBrute Considering that they also have refused to cite the clause, and add a link to their question (we had to go fishing), I'm less inclined to believe it
 
Hm, that's true. So maybe it really is just a troll then
 
saved a draft locally because some of this material may be useful for my blog
 
I almost wonder if that account is a second account, and their first was question banned. The sense of "entitlement" they had was pretty high for a user of 2 days.
 
@ThomA I'm pretty sure it's a sock account. Or if not, it's most likely not somebody who is quite "new". Heck, I'd actually bet this might be prompted from the mod strike.
 
Yeah, that's my thinking.
Hopefully "Decezed" will have a similar thought.
 
11:56 AM
Penalty box has been confirmed, at least.
 
Meh, I always try to think of the "good" in people, but yeah it makes sense judging from how this went down.
 
My ability to find the "good" in some users (on SO) is pretty withered some days with the way some of them act.
 
Sadly, the level of entitlement on display there does not seem all that extraordinary.
The willingness to wrangle meta, though, is pretty unusual
 
 
2 hours later…
1:48 PM
It'll get worse and worse... particularly as people see ChatGPT spitting out wholly realized, seemingly useful answers from potentially complicated prompts.
(the sense of entitlement will get worse, I mean)
 
 
2 hours later…
3:29 PM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine This is probably of interest to you: meta.stackexchange.com/a/390151
Chances are, you'd have seen the Q&A but just want to make sure you don't miss it. There is, after all, not a small amount of things to keep track of.
 
3:56 PM
0
Q: Does talking to ChatGPT to help debug code ruin the learning process compared to searching Google or StackO for newbies

Chris 410First and foremost, this question is specifically for newbies or amateurs(0-1 year of coding exp; me) As we all know that ChatGPT can act as a rubber duck, helping you deal with the world of coding and debugging as it is intensive and subtle in many aspects that people get stuck especially for th...

 
@NewPosts Like "in the old times" some people also used a debugger... I did this. It never really occurred to me to search google for why my code was getting a NullPointerException. And my code was:
String s = null;

if (someCondition) {
  s = "some string";
}

System.out.println(s.toUpperCase());
I figured it's my code, thus I should be the best one at figuring it out. But I did need a debugger to step through it to find out what was happening. I genuinely didn't get the problem. But eventually, I did.
 
in the old times i had this paperback book of documentation
now, adobe has put a login wall on their documentation for this language, so the book is now better than the official docs again
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- much appreciated!
@VLAZ-onstrike- you don't say xD
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine If it wasn't for me, you'd have 490. You're welcome! :P
 
 
1 hour later…
5:46 PM
> it's literally in the terms that moderators should not delete questions but try to improve them instead
I'm sorry what
@Andreasdetestscensorship Dumb question (hey, it's a Monday...). RE: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma, why does scenario D in the Premise section there suggest if both prisoners A and B betray each other, they share the sentence split equally between them? Based on the terms described in the paragraph above, if both turn in the other and admit to guilt, they should both be free to go, no?
Not that you, @Andreasdetestscensorship know the answer to this, just replying to the comment about Jon's blog post, which linked to/referenced the Prisoner's dilemma
 
i find it funny how the post suggesting the voting system is problematic actually suggested raising the rep required to upvote
 
@TylerH Yet you managed to give me not just one, but two pings! Shame on you! :P
 
I just wanted to make sure you saw the messages ;-)
Since I don't have super ping powers to abuse
Hmm, in the letter in Jon's blog post, I see two outright lies, one falsehood, and one claim based on a completely false premise.
Not promising
 
6:02 PM
0
Q: Stack Overflow will be experimenting with a question formatting assistant, and we would love for you to be involved

EmersonIn the coming weeks, we will be conducting a new experiment aimed at improving the quality of questions on the site. This experiment is designed to use AI to help users format their question body and code according to the language they are using, making it easier for reviewers and curators to foc...

2
 
would you tho
 
they would, because it would invalidate the ammunition those striking currently hold
 
@TylerH If they both confess, they share the sentence. If one betrays the other the other not, then the betrayed one has both sentences.
 
it's not two sentences though
the crime has a sentence of 10 years in prison
 
They get lesser sentence. Or if betrayed, the full one.
I...didn't really express it correctly there.
 
6:06 PM
so if one person with eye witness testimony admits to being there and implicates the other one, they now have enough to get the other one the full sentence of 10 years in prison
 
The "both" refers to a greater sentence.
 
the lesser sentence for the lesser crime which they do have enough evidence for is 2 years
not 5
but the terms listed in the paragraph only say: "If one of them confesses to the crime of the principal charge, betraying the other, they will be pardoned and free to leave while the other must serve the entirety of the sentence"
So I would guess that if both betray each other, they either both walk or both get the full sentence
not some weird 5 year hybrid
 
Alice and Bob both robbed a store. Police don't have evidence to convict them of that but they can put them away for tresspassing (lesser sentence). If Alice betrays Bob then she is set free, and Bob is charged with the full robbery.
 
Maybe the system the author based the thought experiment on has a provision for charging two people with a single instance of a crime and splitting the time between them
 
If that helps.
 
6:08 PM
@VLAZ-onstrike- Yes, that's not what I have an issue with
What I have an issue with is if Alice betrays Bob, and Bob also betrays Alice
 
@TylerH Every time I've pointed out that SE is lying, I've been called out for being unconstructive. Hopefully, with the currently elected representatives, that'll be taken into account.
 
depending on how their plea deal was written, if both people confess in exchange for immunity then you've got both people with immunity and neither can be charged
 
It's a thought experiment in classical game theory. Basically + or - outcome between two parties. You can build a very simple table out of it. The example is fleshing it out as something more concrete.
It's not meant to be what the real justice system is like.
 
@NewPosts Ah yes
Exactly what we needed right now
 
so I would hope the deal would include "whoever signs it first wins. You can't both sign". But it then says "if both betray each other they each split a single sentence of 5 years" which is an odd outcome. But maybe they included that in the supposed plea deal and we just don't get to see that
 
6:10 PM
@KarlKnechtel, fair enough. I pulled that one out of ChatGPT. — Catriel 11 mins ago
*facepalm*
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- Yeah, I can tell the author is not a programmer...
 
@TylerH A mathematician (I suppose) and also a sociologist. Game theory has a lot if application, funnily enough, not really about games. International relations for example. Had a friend who studied international politics and they covered a bit of game theory there.
Into context that comes up in "If we and them both negotiate, what strategy has the best outcome" and here you could go "aggressive" or "agreeable" for example and play out the results. Like double aggressive is similar to double betrayal. While double "agreeable" ends up with both sides getting less but something. While aggressive/agreeable combos might play out for the aggressive side.
That is, of course, vast oversimplification. But it's supposed to just guide your strategy making, not really be the whole strategy.
In the real world, there would be degrees of agreeable/aggressive.
 
Sure, I like game theory and am familiar with it in general. I just wanted to know if I was missing something in the description on the Wikipedia page about that one example.
But it sounds like it's just poorly summarized (hopefully) from the book.
Or the book didn't use an ideal choice for that outcome (which I'm sure was arbitrarily chosen)
 
6:39 PM
i don't understand the problem stack is having with users pasting code into the editor
like, i have a fork of the old editor, where i implemented pasting from various microsoft products into it (word, email, excel) that all get converted neatly into markdown, it took a matter of days
 
But have you considered that you might be competent?
 
pasting from IDE's won't be much different, if anything it'd be simpler
 
And I don't really mean to say that SE devs aren't. Erm, not that I have high fate in them. But the whole process over there seems to be fundamentally broken.
 
supporting pasting code likely isn't a large usecase for teams
 
True. Even with MS Teams, pasting code is horrific. Same with Azure DevOps. That's the products we have at work and even though we often do paste code, that's not very well supported. I don't see why (non-MS) Teams would be a higher standard here. Also, consider that Microsoft have a lot of experience making editors. Word, Excel, VS, VSCode. A big chunk of their dev time has been devoted to it.
 
6:44 PM
granted, i did that.... about 8 years ago
so, any knowledge i gained from that is likely long gone
:p
 
You're posting on Meta, come on. You need to really really polish your screenshots.
 
but also the resulting text is still pretty poor
 
Also, the edit is rather minor outside the code and spelling.
@KevinB Yeah "actually" -> "actual" is grating to me.
 
real -> actual removes a line of difference from the two as well
while... technically correct, describing the two things with different words indicates more clearly that you expected them to be different
but that more supports what i answered with than goes against. i don't want it rewriting their questions to be a gpt response. rather, just correct grammatical issues, as it seems to be doing. just, not all that well currently
the code formatting on the other hand...
no, don't touch that. fix your paste handler.
 
Like, the Magic Editor does a lot of this. Except it doesn't format code. The "AI" proposition here is pretty poor, to be honest.
It's not some brand new technology that allows groundbreaking new things.
Also, the Magic Editor is a bunch of regular expressions. It does pretty good for what it is but imagine if it was build upon something slightly more robust.
Yet, it would take dev time. But an "AI" doesn't really take as much. Throw some training data at it and call it a day. No need to really try and solve the problem yourself.
 
6:57 PM
i mean, that's all the old editor is.
a lexer that uses regex to find markdown combinations and converts them into html
What i changed was i added a paste handler and had it run what was pasted through a similar lexer to try to predict what it was pasted from, then i applied a converter from whatever i prediced it to be to markdown
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- Those aren't freehand circles.
 
7:14 PM
Maybe my hands are square.
 
7:53 PM
So I heard we have a new shoe experiment.
 
@E_net4isonstrike I'd assume this is not the second aforementioned "delayed" shoe. Because Cody (IIRC) said delayed shoe was supposed to be bad and damaging, and published intent of "experiment" doesn't very bad for me. It might be useless, but nowhere damaging like AI-policy.
 
no, it's absolutely not
 
@markalex It is not the second shoe.
 
So, it's just some fruit of 10%-stuff AI-team with bad timing.
 
8:04 PM
The second shoe is looking increasingly unlikely to be released in the form that it was planned to be, in no small part because of the backlash surrounding it.
 
yeah
I don't even want to talk about the elephant in the room, but...
> Gain the assurance that your question is error-free, well-crafted, and ready to post on Stack Overflow
is exceptionally hilarious given the "quality" of "improvements" in the screenshot
 
I hate that this change originated from an improvement of the code handling.
i hate that they decided ai was a good way to handle formatting pasted code correctly
 
@Mithical I don't know how to ask this, so this it wouldn't look like I want you to said what said shoe is. But is that shoe, what is last point of demands in recent update om strike about? Or is it more general stance on discussion of policies?
 
I'm... not sure what you're asking there.
 
if you can copy and paste code within an IDE and have it formatted correctly in the destination, there's no reason the same cues can't be used in a web browser to decide how to format the code without having to run it through AI to get there, all the cues to get the intended result should be in the source.
 
8:10 PM
@KevinB one can 'effing do better with regular expressions, for Christ's sake.
 
What IDE, when you copy something, produces the code they presented as an example?
 
Incidentally, several semi-automated community built tools function like that... With greater accuracy than... whatever this is
Welp, as they say, third time's the charm
 
code in that format came from minimized/obfuscated code, which will make up a super tiny amount of the code that gets pasted to SO
code from an IDE will come with linebreaks, tabs or spaces, etc
 
@Mithical Ah, forget it. To much of a mystery around that shoe, to even formulate my idea. If it will be revealed one day, I'll understand (or maybe ask more adequate question). And if not, I'll forget:)
 
I bet the next step after this is generated real suggested edits - finally the queue will consist only of audits!
 
8:35 PM
Joking aide, I hope the example is just poorly chosen. If this is how it is supposed to work most of the time, it'll be useless at best.
 
it's just baffling to me that this is the direction they went with fixing the code pasting bit. >.<
when you intercept a paste event from an ide you get to choose the format inwhich to read that content. text, text/html, etc and then you can use simple regex to determine whether or not it's a block of code or just a string, which determines whether you get an inline code bit or a block of code. the old editor does this
err, no i'm mixing two features, the old editor's ctrl+k determines whether or not it should be inline or block, not the paste function
the new editor makes no such distinction on ctrl+k, instead it consumed ctrl+m to be block and made ctrl+k inline only
 
8:52 PM
eh, what's that?
 
downvotes on top, accept votes below
 
You're welcome. That'll be 50 StackAI blockchain cryptocoins
 
upvotes also dropped, but by a larger raw amount
14k vs 6k
(for the week)
i didn't expect upvotes to drop
 
9:19 PM
using the company's data analysis method, this means the striking users/curators are the most active voters on the site
Also since the data dump for June was run/released, should the pinned comment from Mith on June 9th about them being off be unpinned?
@ZoestandswithUkraine I wonder if the post should mention not just the # of moderators, but also the # of former CMs, of which there are at my glance the three most prominent CMs in the company's history having signed
 
is there a post where that is stated? probably worth pinning it
 
@KevinB I think I read it in Discord
looking on archive.org I don't see anything since march though so maybe that comment on discord was mistaken
or referring to something else
 
yeah i don't see anything on discord
if that happened it'd most certainly have made it to the highlights
 
 
well, not quite true--I do see a few XML files that were updated on May 12th
but not site dumps, just reviews and files
 
9:26 PM
maybe it's in progress
oh, may 12th
 
yeah, nvm
If I come across it again I'll for sure post it here just so it's easier to find
there's also a non-zero chance I simply dreamed it last night or the night before
haven't gotten much sleep the past 3 days
 
10:00 PM
@KevinB Some of us have quit upvoting as well. I'm not touching the site beyond reading it.
 
yeah, but i mean, that's a lot of total votes
a 10% drop
 
 
1 hour later…
11:07 PM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine huh!
That's how you do it. :D
Should have been ~500 more, lost many when testing the chat bug, clicking inbox there mark all as read. ):
@NewPosts eww
Pity no downvote in chat.
 

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