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9:00 AM
Yeah, I don't understand how that saves any time.
 
Well, I think I usually don't check the result. Of course if something breaks later it needs double the time to find where the bug is.
Yes, it feels like I save time at that moment, but on the long term not sure.
 
The problem is that Stack Overflow (along with other, vaguely similar sites) has been steadily losing traffic to ChatCPT for the past year-and-a-bit. If only there were a community of experts, where the senior SE staff could ask for possible solutions? And if such a community would offer their services/opinions for free ... well, that would be just incredible, eh?
 
I tried that "codenine" plugin. AFAIK, it's a competitor to Copilot. And there were claims that it would learn from your code. I couldn't bear to use it more than an hour or two. OK, maybe it would learn but it was autocompleting with complete crap. I just changed the signature of a method, then tried to call it in a new place. And it would autocomplete with either the old signature or something completely made up.
Like, if I've introduced a second mandatory parameter, it would call it with only one or maybe just four.
But it does initialise and pass in actual values. Which cannot ever compile because the method doesn't take that many parameters.
 
Ah yes, but that having said anyone actually have a solution on that? (was there a meta post?)
On the other hand I'd say if we get less duplicate-sort-of questions it's probably a positive thing?
 
@AdrianMole Erm year and a bit? ChatGPT has been live for about 7 months.
 
9:06 AM
I think the advertisers (where the bulk of SE's money comes from) don't care about duplicates ... just visitor/traffic numbers.
 
Traffic has plummeted since, though.
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- Sorry, that was an LLM-powered guess. ;)
 
@AdrianMole As a large language model with data up to September 2021, I sympathise
Just to illustrate the point to people without 25k, though, here is the site analytics data:
 
@user202729 if you don't save time longterm, then you're technically not saving any time
it's like with gambling. You need to think long term, not short term
in gambling, people only think of short term wins but never notice they lose when thinking long term.
(probably a bad example uh)
 
The dip in December is normal (you can see it in 2021 and 2022 but usually the activity picks up after new year. In 2023 it didn't and declined further. ChatGPT was released basically start of December 2022, so analysis at the time was unreliable with the usual December decline.
 
9:10 AM
Obviously. I wonder if there's some actual research on that topic.
(yes there's one that conclude they are "more confident" but "makes more mistakes". But then there's always people thinking "what if I can do better than the people in the experiment")
 
I don't know, thinking about it being "confident" or "intelligent" is part of the problem here, but that's beside the point maybe
 
There's also blog.codinghorror.com/skill-disparities-in-programming which may make people "try to believe" that...
 
Also more graphs:
Maybe slightly better visible in light mode:
 
those graph are so nice. I'm guessing it's from the 10k tools?
 
What is this room for?
 
9:14 AM
@NordineLotfi 25k
@forest Hats.
 
@forest Discussing the merits of non-sensible headgear.
 
@forest I'm guessing idle chat but that's just my assumption
 
Currently being used for...anything at all.
 
btw, are you on strike too?
 
Previously: also. But mostly making fun of stuff.
 
9:15 AM
I personally am on strike, yes.
 
got you
@VLAZ-onstrike- didn't know this was a thing
 
I had just gotten back from being away, and I come to find this nonsense...
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- do you know the term for those graph? probably not "scatterplot" hmm
 
The last privilege to unlock. You do get access to analytics through the 10k tools, if that matters.
 
@forest For some years, this room has been used as a sort of 'overflow' for extended discussions that aren't really relevant (or even allowed) in other site-curation rooms. As many of those rooms are now in read-only mode, were agglomerating here, instead, to talk about the current mess.
 
9:16 AM
@NordineLotfi Looks like just a line graph but the data is organized in the wrong way.
 
Is AI Domination closed down?
 
@NordineLotfi Dunno, TBH.
@forest Nah. But also used for idle chatter right now.
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- now you're making me curious.
@user202729 I don't think it's organized in the wrong way, but I don't use graph too much myself anyway
 
The AI Domination room is also an invitation-only (private) room, so not such a wide spectrum of users can chat there.
 
@AdrianMole Well yes, but I'm also a mod, so I have (or had) a reason to use it.
 
9:18 AM
What does the huge fluctuation mean anyway?
 
BTW, if anybody is interested in the data to run some analusis, the site offers CSV export. I can grab it and...figure out where to upload it but I can do it.
 
I'd been joking that staff were so clueless that they'd ban us from suspending users for AI spam. I hate that my cynical jokes keep becoming prognostications.
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- if it's less than 1GB you could just upload it to a gist.github maybe
 
@AdrianMole forest was quite active in the beginning there.
 
I was the first person to create a script to help automate detection, albeit a very shitty script which I'm sure has been supplanted by mature, user-friendly userscripts.
 
9:19 AM
So it's all your fault, then? xD
 
@NordineLotfi 23KB for posts for the current dataset: 2021-01-05 to 2023-06-06. So, yes, possible.
 
No, because my script was written in Perl. I pass the blame onto Larry Wall.
 
Are you related to Baum mit Augen, @forest?
 
I can see the eyes. Not the tree.
 
I wonder if the situation would have turned out better if the mods didn't use the detection tools at all.
 
9:21 AM
Can't see the forest for the tree?
 
But well, it's impossible to tell anyway.
 
No, that's a single tree. I am an entire ecosystem.
 
hehe
 
@user202729 They...mostly didn't.
 
9:21 AM
@forest your perl is fine to me, at least from a non-perl perspective
 
I had no idea anyone even still had my script, or even remembered it.
 
@AdrianMole Damn! Good come back. And I did legitimately miss "forest"/"tree" :D
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- Yes, of course. But the fact that some of them did "use" it (even though they may not base their decision on it, although I've no data) allow SE to state such thing and make it sound somewhat believable. (perhaps?)
 
@forest I mean, I did ping you on the other room with a "python" port I made on github based on your script
 
Ah, I forgot about that.
 
9:24 AM
I didn't even knew you could use the requests module for that, so this was a good thing you made this
 
Unfortunately, the "significantly improved" version which I put on a Debian paste is now gone.
 
if you linked it on the room at the time, I probably saved it locally
I think you did yeah
 
Do you have a copy? I posted my first draft of the script in the chat, but subsequent revisions were put on a (now-expired) paste.
 
I'm searching through for the link so I can search through my disk using the paste's id (since chrome by default saved it using that I think)
 
in AI Domination, Dec 8, 2022 at 23:35, by forest
Also, I've improved the Perl script considerably: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/b3f1806f/
I wish I had just put it into the chat. I think I considered doing so, but figured it would be spammy.
 
Thank you!
 
@user202729 Here is the problem. I'll try to give some more in-depth detail. But bear with me, I'm also being slight vague here for confidentiality purposes. You don't need AI detection tools to recognise a post as being ChatGPT generated. At most, the AI detectors give a hint to investigate further. But mods, to my knowledge, have mostly been responding to flags. The community identified very quickly the unreliability of AI detectors. There have been discussions about this and much evidence
about false positives. So detection alone is hardly evidence. Here is where it gets muddier - more realistic heuristics hinge on figuring out if it's really ChatGPT output. These include but are not limited to, seeing certain phrases that ChatGPT uses or a user "suddenly" becoming proficient in English or in a topic they weren't before. Checking and comparing posting styles mostly. There is no One True Way to detect a ChatGPT post but it's usually collection of several distinct data points.
And it's that being passed in a flag where a mod would then further validate it. Now, here is where the new AI policy comes in - it not only forbits using detectors as basis of judgement (that's quite reasonable. Also hasn't happened) but also "best guesses based on users' writing styles and behavioral indicators" (from the publicly posted policy). Here is the thing that's all we have. There is no actual way to identify ChatGPT posts that would be considered hard enough evidence
according to the policy. OK, the only thing would probably be if the post says "This is from ChatGPT <paste>" but that's exceptionally rare (still happens...). The policy essentially forbids any detection method - AI or otherwise. Because there isn't one. It's not that the mods and the community have used sub-par tools in the existence of better ones. There aren't better ones. The policy is insidious as it is written plausibly and users who've been involved would even agree to parts of it.
But not the conclusion. It's as if you're told "you're allowed to drive a car. Only you're not allowed to use any human appendige while doing so because both hands and legs are prone to spasms and can lead to crashes". Which is true technically but it leaves you...not able to drive a car, doesn't it? Also, that latter part comes well after you've been driving.
 
Nice block
 
Channelling my inner Makyen
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- I'd love to see how fast SE would backtrack if Charcoal decided to stop using automated spam detection for the exact same reasons, and only allowed spam to be deleted if the spammer freely admitted to it!
 
9:40 AM
@forest Good news! Charcoal has stopped all automated activity as of the start of the strike.
 
Really?
 
Yep. Charcoal, SOBotics, and SOCVR are down.
Smokey is in the great chimney in the sky.
 
That's awesome! I hope they'll keep it down as part of the strike.
 
speaking as a Charcoal admin, that's certainly our intent
 
Wonderful.
 
9:42 AM
to paraphrase Undo, flagging spam will be completely pointless if flagging AI crap is not permitted
 
Oh, members of Charcoal already have a vested interest in SE paying attention. Here is something you probably missed recently - there is an apparent bug in the API which caused a big load on the servers. As result a CPU had to eventually be replaced. Also, server bills have been higher for a few months due to the increased load. Company decided to reimburse Thomas Ward (who's hosting the whole thing and paying out of pocket) for the hardware and bills.
But it's also ridiculous SE rely on community effort and even paying costs.
 
If SE allowed the community to be more involved in the site itself, relying on community effort would be forgivable.
 
I can't actually remember where the post was any more but there was one recently providing constructive criticism to the AI endeavour of SE. Essentially it suggested opening up more APIs and providing more ability for the community to tap into the infrastructure of the site with modules, plugins, bots, etc. None of this is specifically AI related but all of it will open the doors for AI tools the community can contribute freely.
 
@forest That's where Phillippe's (public) responses have been confusing. When he first came to SE - and was then later promoted to VP-Community - he came across as just the sort we needed. I'm guessing that he's under a bigger hammer than we know.
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- And while there have been promises of long-term compensation, these promises have not been fulfilled.
 
9:47 AM
@AdrianMole Or he was just pulling the wool over our eyes the entire time.
 
Also, make no mistake - Smokey is using AI. Not the shiny recent gen AI or fancy ML but still the same. Same with Queen or other bots. They did use AI tooling tempered with other techniques to detect stuff.
 
@forest It's an option but not one I'm currently wanting to accept.
 
It's an expensive hobby to run MS with the crap SE keeps pulling.
 
@Mast 💸
 
@AdrianMole I've been disillusioned enough times that I no longer have any stake in trusting the higher-ups.
 
9:49 AM
Also Perspective uses ML and Smokey uses Perspective. (I should say that's sort of an assumption that it uses ML, but they do say "Perspective models provide scores for several different attributes." so that does sound like ML.)
 
@CodyGray-onstrike For the record, the /s was missing.
 
@RyanM-Regenerateresponse "And we all know how inaccurate..."
 
Ah yes! Sorry, forgot it was you. There have been...a few things written in the last few days.
 
@CodyGray-onstrike It may be the most positive one yet.
 
9:51 AM
I 100% support that.
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- definitely! I'm thinking about stopping to try to keep up but ... popcorn
 
@AdrianMole And if you have any remaining doubts... academia.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5286/…
 
@forest Perspective does seem to have a, uh, certain dislike for words like "spicy", "spiciness", "spicier", and "spicket", as well as misspellings like "spicific" and "spicified".
You can probably figure out the problem there.
 
I'm surprised that such an ostensibly sophisticated ML would fall victim to such trivial cases of the Scunthorp problem.
 
@forest Removing "featured" tags on all posts that directly reference the strike is standard policy. I'm giving some credit to Philippe for doing it himself, rather than expecting other (more 'junior') CMs to do the dirty work.
 
9:57 AM
honestly same...I should get around to checking if it's still doing that and file a bug if it is.
 
@AdrianMole That's unfortunate and extremely scummy.
 
Well, if you're paying a big mortgage and have a family to feed, you can't just take actions that will likely get you fired very quickly. Phillippe just doesn't have the same level of kudos/reputation as his predecessor (Teresa). No idea why she left - maybe she cast her chicken bones and saw the road ahead?
 
@AdrianMole That's more or less the situation with all staff at the moment. Regardless of how sympathetic they are, not following their orders puts their job on the line.
 
Meh, I wouldn't throw many adjectives at those actions of featured tag removal. At best they're just inviting the Streisand effect.
 
And I wouldn't want to be fired over something not my fault either.
@E_net4isonstrike Oh, Streisand will definitely come into play here :-)
 
10:01 AM
True.
 
Even a VP is really only a "staff" post. Not (necessarily) a real board member.
 
We always figured the community would pick up on these actions.
 
@AdrianMole Then they are violating their own policy.
 
@AdrianMole You can’t excuse the company’s actions, just because specific employees’ names are on those actions. It’s the actions of the company, and what they’re doing is unacceptable.
 
> sophisticated
 
10:05 AM
113
Q: Why is SE staff violating SE policy by un-featuring posts about the strike on per-site Metas?

cocomacThere have been several cases where SE staff has removed the featured tag from per-site Meta posts in relation to it, despite no (public) statement from SE regarding that. Unless there is a legal aspect that I'm unaware of (I'm not a lawyer), I don't see any good reason for SE doing that beyond t...

 
As Billy Connolly once said, "Before you cast aspersions on a man's actions, you should walk a mile in his shoes."
... "Then, he'll be a mile away, and you'll have his shoes."
 
@Mast If we can get the third mod in our team to also go on the strike, we'll be able to add Crypto.SE to the list of sites which have been illegitimately tampered with when they inevitably attempt to suppress the message.
 
@forest If you think there's a chance they'll go for it, do it.
I know the other CR mods (well, 2, the other is mostly inactive) are interested in following the strike but aren't striking (yet). It's their choice.
For me, it's more important to strike since I'm also part of Charcoal.
I think everyone from Charcoal is on strike.
Which has way more impact than our little corner of the network doing anything or nothing.
 
How many members does the core Charcoal team have?
 
@Mast Well I've tried to convince him but fundamentally, going on strike is up to him.
 
10:08 AM
I assume there is such a thing, at least.
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- At the moment, zero!
 
Depends what you mean by the "Core Team".
There is a term used in Charcoal - "core privileges" - but that's not really much (I have that).
 
@AdrianMole Yeah, to be honest, I'm not totally clear on the structure. I have a vague idea there are people who are making decisions and such. Mast, Thomas Ward, Makyen, others. And then there are the plebeians like me who go and respond to some Smokey reports.
 
the Github organization is the closest thing to official documentation but the real division of roles is somewhat more involved. Me and Makyen are the two admins mostly seen in chat, but Thomas and (sometimes) Undo are active behind the scenes
 
Does Undo do much? ;-P
 
10:11 AM
@forest Definitely. It's a personal choice.
 
@AdrianMole Undoes all spam.
 
Undo and Art were quite active when I started, but pretty much stopped engaging after Monicagate in 2019
 
@AdrianMole If you think the amount of traffic we're losing to ChatCPT is bad, you should see how much we're losing to Chat᠎*G*᠎PT!
 
@AdrianMole Behind the scenes.
 
Used to be very active, IIRC. Didn't Undo once host MS?
 
10:12 AM
Yes, he did.
 
Before it moved to Thomas.
 
github.com/orgs/Charcoal-SE/people is pretty nondescript, the members see a more granular view
 
@AdrianMole I've done a quick count (metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/admin/users), roughly 35.
 
metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/users shows you who has "core" privileges but there is no simple way to search that (without core privileges, ironically, which give you access to the SQL backend where you can query any table in the system)
 
Not all of them active.
 
10:16 AM
@NordineLotfi Yes, it is a scatterplot. However, it is one where the points are connected with lines.
 
@tripleee The SQL returns 88 for role_id 6 for me. That can't be right...
 
why not? did you scroll through all 10 pages of /users?
 
Oh, that includes a lot of moderators and CMs. Hmm.
@tripleee SQL
 
SELECT COUNT(*)
FROM p_users u
INNER JOIN p_users_roles ur ON u.id = ur.user_id
INNER JOIN p_roles r on ur.role_id = r.id
WHERE r.name = 'Core'
I got 89 for that
 
SELECT
   user_id,
   name,
   role_id
FROM
   p_users_roles
   INNER JOIN
      p_roles
      ON p_users_roles.role_id = p_roles.id
WHERE
   role_id = 6
   AND user_id != - 1
88
 
10:19 AM
@VLAZ-onstrike- I mean, I didn't say anything, but... technically I don't think you're allowed to share that data in public, right? Doesn't it say this at the top of the page?
 
Erm, does it?
Let me check..
 
I know the mod version does, but I can't remember the "regular" user version
 
OK, not the top of the page - but the privilege does say that it's preferrable not to share the raw data. In light of this, I withdraw my proposal to export CSV data.
 
Actually, it doesn't, so carry on.
Oh, the privilege page says it? Good catch.
 
simply SELECT * FROM p_users_roles where role_id = 6 works fine, 89 where SmokeDetector itself is user_id -1
 
10:23 AM
@VLAZ-onstrike- welp, I appreciate the fact you offered this at least
@CodyGray-onstrike got you :) Thank you
 
SELECT * FROM p_users_roles where role_id = 6 and pinned = 1 gets me 13 users so that's probably closer to the set you were perhaps looking for then
 
@NordineLotfi Technically, I see no reason I wouldn't be able to take a request of analysis of the data and do it. The privilege does say that I'm encouraged to share analysis on meta.
Or you can gain 25k rep and do it yourself!
 
though that excludes e.g. cigien and Glorfindel who should arguably also be pinned, I guess the pins have not been updated for quite some time
 
If you get the repcap every day it would only take ~123 days to get 25k.
 
You can get a lot of those data from SEDE.
As long as you're not interested in last week, it has everything before that.
 
10:27 AM
Last week was quite interesting.
 
SEDE is updated once a week. On Sunday, I think. So you can get everything till Sunday IIRC.
 
@user202729 It is more accurate to say that we explored the detectors. We explored many different heuristics. We determined pretty early on that the detectors were ludicrously inaccurate, and we stopped using them. The SO mods who handled the overwhelming volume of GPT content flags (we SO mods tend to specialize in flag handling sub-domains) have stated publicly on various Meta sites that they never used any of the detectors, never even consulting them.
 
Also this week would be interesting. I'm curious if there would be any noticeable drop in activity.
 
Thus, these statements by staff, especially Phillippe to various news sources, are just outright lies and a smear campaign of misinformation, in violation of their own Code of Conduct, moderator agreement, and general rules of decency.
The only thing they could possibly argue is that many flaggers used the detectors, and they used this as the apparent basis for their flag. If staff assumed that mods who marked these flags helpful and acted on them were just doing so on the basis of the detectors, it might be understandable how they arrived at this conclusion. However, that didn't happen, and they never asked us how we handled these.
In fact, we ignored this "evidence" provided by the flagger(s) and did our own investigation, as we always do for flags.
 
Just in fairness (also being vague) there were some tools that tried to surface ChatGPT posts from the incoming posts. And remember that there are thousands of posts every day - Qs and As. That's thousands in SO alone. Less on each other individual network site but collectively it still adds up. But the tools were really only there to be "Hey, maybe look at this". And were only aiming to catch the most obvious of posts to examine further.
There are various posts that are very hard to analyse for variety of reasons. Many times I've not flagged because I couldn't provide enough concrete evidence. I do take the flagging seriously and, from my impressions, many of the other users also do. We've discussed unclear cases when in doubt and often enough a conclusion might just be "we can't really prove anything here without more data".
 
10:35 AM
@CodyGray-onstrike And there's not going to be any consequences for any of them
 
Yeah. If the CMs (and other staff) took even a quick look through the transcript of the AI Domination room, they would see that mods are declining flags that rely solely on detector tools.
 
@tripleee what's pinned do?
 
@AdrianMole he says, still bitter. :-)
 
yeah that is mostly a list of inactive people ^^;
 
Not bitter, at all. I'd even be happy to "share" some of my own declined flags, were that not against the rules of the AI room.
 
10:36 AM
(too lazy to check now, but my recollection is) it prevents some privileges from being removed automatically, as they would otherwise be under some circumstances
 
(Well, there's only one declined flag, but the message is there.)
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- But, it's worth noting, hasn't yet done so. However, Phillippe did discuss it with the CEO, emphasizing the importance of Charcoal, and got approval to reimburse him.
 
Am I allowed to share the text of mod messages in my own declined flags?
 
If it's your own declined flags, I don't see why not.
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- The only AI that I'm aware of that Smokey uses is perspectiveapi.com to detect "toxic" content. Virtually everything else is just a human-curated list of regular expressions.
 
10:39 AM
It's not someone else's PII.
 
@Mast Sorry; my sarcasm detector is broken lately. I think it got turned off when I turned off my moderation userscripts.
 
@CodyGray-onstrike Also munches those into a score. That is within the broad purview of the AI field. As weird as that sounds... but basically (current) ML is more direct application of more of the same.
 
(AI is in the eye of the beholder. A list of manually curated regular expressions apparently counts as "magical" enough to qualify for some as "artificial intelligence".)
 
@tripleee It's probably more sophisticated than most most early video game AIs!
 
@forest Hmm. Maybe if I started a Meta post with one, others would add more? Would a (large?) list of declined AI flags and their messages be a useful contribution to the discussion? (We needn't name the moderators.)
 
10:41 AM
@AdrianMole I don't think so, because the mods declining the flags is not the problem. Trust me, mods want to validate those flags. We (mods) have our hands tied.
 
@RyanM-Regenerateresponse There are several unfortunate cases where Perspectives returns a very high score for something that is completely innocuous. I, and several others, have tried giving feedback to it in order to bring about some sort of improvement, but, unfortunately, no dice.
 
Smokey is acting as an agent by making decisions. Yes, ultimately based on rules curated by humans but it's still agent. That's an AI term. It's...also like super unclear and not very well defined in the AI field but there it is.
@CodyGray-onstrike You want it to roll some dice when giving you a score?
 
@CodyGray-onstrike And the worth of that result is based on how often it's considered correct. And it's never grounds for automatic flags by itself.
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- Just roll the dice once. No need to add overhead by rolling it multiple times.
 
@forest What I was getting it is that mods do decline flags (or sometimes mark them helpful but take no further action). The messages in those would be hard evidence that mods aren't (just) using heuristics from detector tools.
 
10:44 AM
@forest Cody says there were no dice to be found. We should look into this dice shortage.
 
@forest I guess that's one of the areas where the private/public announcements diverge.
 
surely we are talking about from before the strike
 
@AdrianMole That was part of the public announcement.
I think.
Well I'm deleting it just in case it's not.
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- No, I want it to improve its heuristics and learn what is a FP and what is not.
@VLAZ-onstrike- Yeah, that... doesn't count in my eyes.
 
@CodyGray-onstrike ('twas a joke on "no dice")
 
10:47 AM
That would mean every program I write is "AI", since they all act as "agents", doing things in response to instructions and commands and heuristics and whatever else I write.
@VLAZ-onstrike- Ah, I see. I forgot what I wrote. Juggling too many tabs.
 
@CodyGray-onstrike I did say "agent" is ill defined. You're correct in your assessment and this whole thing is debated. Not sure if it's "hotly" debated but there are debates to what makes an agent an agent. And when does it fall under AI. Like, they are there sort of because "AI" is a bit of a dumping ground for all sorts of topics that don't quite fit elsewhere. Anything that concerns some sort of decision making is often tossed there. It's...not great.
But hey, awesome for marketing since they can keep claiming there is "AI" in all sorts of products!
 
> We've reminded moderators that suspensions (and typically mod messages as well) are for real, verifiable malfeasance only, and should not be enacted on the basis of hunches, guesses, intuition, or unverified heuristics.
Yeah, so we can't act on flags from people who merely have a hunch, guess, use intuition, etc.
 
@forest Can you prove that with hard data and it's not just your hunch? :P
 
Haha
 
@forest Regarding key Charcoal people, see charcoal-se.org/pings, and, specifically, the list of admins.
As was noted, ArtOfCode and Undo aren't all that active anymore. Andy is an active SO mod, but not as active in Charcoal as he used to be, unless I'm missing something.
 
10:56 AM
@forest We've reminded SO staff that firing mods (and demonizing them as well) is for real, verifiable malfeasance only, and should not be enacted on the basis of hunches, guesses, intuition, or unverified heuristics from unreasonable complainers.
3
 
@AdrianMole I don't really see how this would add value. What value do you think it would add? Proving that mods don't just greenlight every flag that gets raised? I think everybody knows that, and even if they didn't, we could pull the stats on declined flags; we don't need a Meta post for it.
 
@CodyGray-onstrike No problem. It was a mere suggestion, looking for feedback.
 
@VLAZ-onstrike- blame marketing and social hype. I would maybe, on some level, accept to use the term "agent" if it act dynamically based on context. But no existing algorithm, whether you call it "AI", "ML", etc exist that do this. Only Humans can do this...
@CodyGray-onstrike I was about to say that too. If that's what people are implying, then every if/elif/else/while block in most languages could be considered "autonomous agent".
 
@NordineLotfi Why can't we call it "code"?
 
@tripleee that's probably why the hype exist too. At it's core, it's people who only look on the surface but don't truly know how it works
@CodyGray-onstrike I know right
people want to throw "cool" sounding label coming straight from movies because it sells. They don't care about the cold hard truth
@VLAZ-onstrike- got you
@VLAZ-onstrike- no way that would happen for me :/ and doing all of this just for that is a bit weird and not needed to me
@VLAZ-onstrike- That's also provided that I'm lucky enough and get enough "engagement" on my post (be it question or answer)
 
11:19 AM
@NordineLotfi I don't think I've ever gotten the repcap on SO. Moreover, I've got 800+ answers. The vast majority of them single digit score. So, I sort of get that it's not easy to build up rep on SO.
97.79% of my answers have a score of 9 or less. Or to give you more concrete numbers 20 of them have 10 or more.
 
I can confirm that it's difficult in many tags; I don't even have 20k!
I have waaay more rep on MSE with a third the posts.
on Law.SE I have 10k with 76 posts.
 
Disagree; it's not that hard. Maybe you're just trying on the wrong tags.
 
Just for fun: 861 total (visible) answers.
score: 9	Count: 841	proportion: 0.976771196	percentage: 97.68%
score: 8	Count: 831	proportion: 0.965156794	percentage: 96.52%
score: 7	Count: 827	proportion: 0.960511034	percentage: 96.05%
score: 6	Count: 820	proportion: 0.952380952	percentage: 95.24%
score: 5	Count: 802	proportion: 0.931475029	percentage: 93.15%
score: 4	Count: 841	proportion: 0.976771196	percentage: 97.68%
score: 3	Count: 744	proportion: 0.864111498	percentage: 86.41%
score: 2	Count: 674	proportion: 0.782810685	percentage: 78.28%
 
11:38 AM
@CodyGray-onstrike I mean, if I had an account for as long as you, maybe I would have at least 10-50k by now
 
I hardly post anything anymore
Mostly when I am handling a flag on a question that I think needs an answer
 
Morning
 
@CodyGray-onstrike, were users, who admitted use of chatGPT inside of answers itself, handed ban too? Or were they lucky to get a mod message on first offense?
 
@CodyGray-onstrike Well, I've had better luck on two other sites, so it's not like I don't get the model ;-) but yes, as I implied, very tag-dependent.
@CodyGray-onstrike well sure, the best time to have posted answers is ten years ago :-p
 
@markalex Handling varied from one moderator to another, so I'm not really sure. Generally, we were issuing suspensions because that is what was recommended by staff. However, we did almost always lift suspensions early if users replied acknowledging the policy and agreeing not to post any more AI-generated answers in the future.
 
11:47 AM
Hm, interesting. I keep forgetting, that banned user can interact with you, and that you can lift previously applied ban.
 
Sometimes they even interact in ways other than calling us checks notes "A cesspool of much less than mediocrity."
 
Is there a low-end daily rep. "sock" (not sure what the term for a cap on a lower limit is)? Like, after a daily -200 (not including stuff like spam penalties), downvotes would no longer impact your daily rep. change).
 
@RyanM-Regenerateresponse Hmm, interesting, was it the same user who lately being b*tching about mods on meta, and asking SE to "put mods in their place"?
 
@markalex If it were, I couldn't tell you, because then I'd be revealing confidential information. I'd only quote a mod message (assuming the user didn't initiate the discussion about it) where there's no possible way that someone could work out who sent it.
 
@AdrianMole You can't go below 1.
 
12:00 PM
On the related note I have no idea how you guys cope this all this. Kudos for your strength and tranquility.
 
Is that the only limit? Just for hislatest Meta question, Phillippe is currently on a rep. change of -140 (yes - 23 upvotes).
 
I have yet to see the MSO post about the strike being in the HMP sidebar. Has anybody seen it there? Is it manually hidden by SE staff?
 
It has been there several times
 
@AdrianMole yes, it is. Staff have occasionally demonstrated this on MSE.
 
It hasn’t been shown to me yet.
 
12:02 PM
@Andreasdetestscensorship It's been there numerous times. It's not been manually hidden. All of the posts eligible to be HMP are randomly cycled through once per hour. I provided the criteria for a HMP in some room earlier.
 
I saw it. I was told that it cycles through all the eligible posts r...what Cody said.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Then you just have really bad timing
 
@CodyGray-onstrike Well, yes, thank you, I wasn’t asking about that. I asked because I am surprised not to have seen it in the sidebar yet.
@ZoestandswithUkraine Perhaps.
Also, I don’t know who did this, but you live in this city, so if you did it, Zoe, please don’t turn the bus seats brown again.
 
What do you mean you weren't asking about that? Yes, you were exactly asking about that. And now you're replying with some kind of conspiracy theory, even though three different people have just told you that it has been there.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship I've taken the bus like three times in the past three years
 
12:06 PM
@CodyGray-onstrike What is up with people intentionally misunderstanding me as of lately?
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine so you're underfunding their ability to clean their seats, so it is your fault!
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine Definitely your fault. :O
 
I am not intentionally misunderstanding you.
And I resent that implication.
 
@RyanM-Regenerateresponse lmao
They're actually pretty well-funded :p
 
I already explained to you that I didn’t ask about how HMP works, and I already explained why I had a thought about it potentially being hidden. I’m not presenting conspiracy theories. If I was, I wouldn’t come here to ask others to disprove of my suspicion.
Yet after my explanations, you say the complete opposite.
 
12:09 PM
"Has anybody seen it there? Is it manually hidden by SE staff?"
"It's been there numerous times. It's not been manually hidden."
"I wasn’t asking about that."
 
@RyanM-Regenerateresponse No, I was asking about that.
 
you can see how Cody would be confused, though, because you didn't say specifically what you weren't asking about
 
Well, whatever. I’ll swoop myself out of here.
Thanks to everyone answering what I asked about, including Cody.
 
I still don't understand.
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship That sounds like shit...
 
12:22 PM
Or maybe leather?
 
I stand by what I said
Leather + summer = shit time to be had
Although admittedly, I'm not sure what the summer up North is.
 
It's more like up mid :p
And it's varied. Can get sunny
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine North for most of us EU citizens.
 

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