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4:21 AM
Hey guys
@double-beep Yes that's the problem with Beli's dead links
Belisarius
 
 
3 hours later…
7:49 AM
pling
 
8:10 AM
plong
 
Haha
@VLAZ Wanna test my bot
@UBot hi!
 
Yes boss!
 
@UBot hi
 
Hi!
 
@UBot Wait it doesn't recognize you... Will fix the bot
 
8:11 AM
Sorry, I don't have that command.
 
Rebooting
 
Sorry, I don't have that command.
 
@UBot Hi!
 
Yes boss!
 
@VLAZ Try to say Hi again :)
 
8:13 AM
@UBot hi
 
Is this Tony The Pony...?
 
 
2 hours later…
10:12 AM
Wait.. you just asked VLAZ if they are Tony the Pony? The one that is summoned when using regex to parse HTML? :D
The one that will most certainly initiate the Apocalypse if summoned by 4 users?
 
10:32 AM
What happens if I write sh myscript and it has a #!/bin/bash in it? Will it run in sh or in bash?
 
10:44 AM
brews a cup of coffee for Oleg
 
10:58 AM
good @Scratte :)
110
Q: Does the shebang determine the shell which runs the script?

jraraThis may be a silly question, but I ask it still. If I have declared a shebang #!/bin/bash in the beginning of my_shell_script.sh, so do I always have to invoke this script using bash [my@comp]$bash my_shell_script.sh or can I use e.g. [my@comp]$sh my_shell_script.sh and my script deter...

 
^ Awesome :) Thank you :)
 
NP :)
nomination starts in less than 9 hours, btw
 
I also just ran this little script:
#!/bin/bash

ps
echo
ps -p $$
echo
echo $SHELL
And it gives me bash on the first line of the first one, sh on the second one and bash on the last one.
Which had me a little confused :)
@OlegValter I know. I will probably not be very active in it this year.
Ha! The two top Answers seems to be conflicting :D
So the first one says that if you specify it in the command line, the interpreter will be that.
The second one seem to say that the #! will always be honored.
 
11:18 AM
it was my impression that the command line takes precedence
@Scratte as usual :)
 
@OlegValter I just changes my script to ask for "dash" and.. it's completely ignored :)
There's no dash in the ps output :)
So the top post is the correct one :)
 
@Scratte you mean after the shebang?
 
Yes :) #!/bin/dash :) Then I run it as sh ./myscript :)
 
dash should be ignored, methinks
 
It only shows the bash and the sh in the ps (processes) output :)
@OlegValter Yes, exactly. It is :)
Ohh.. I just learned that I can use linux as a calculater on the command line. It's awsome :)
 
11:27 AM
@Scratte unless you mean some other answer, I am not sure why it follows from the second answer that it thinks shebang will take precedence, though
 
@OlegValter The second answer seems to suggest that the shebang takes precedence.
 
hmm, I suppose you see something I do not, but I guess you are not the only one:
> As @thomas-nyman points out, the shebang-specified interpreter will be ignored if another shell is called on the command line to interpret the file.
ah, maybe you refer to this:
> This ensures that Bash will be used to interpret the script, even if it is executed under another shell
this line just spaced out for me
 
^ Yups.. that's what I got from it. That the shebang will always be used.
 
yeah, I see... Well, it is provably wrong, IMO :)
 
Yes :) I think I just proved it.. I also think it will take 10 years to properly learn all about linux :/
 
11:32 AM
you are overly optimistic in that estimate :)
I lost all hope I will ever learn more than how to use simple commands and programs
 
lol!. Yes, only if the world stood still would that be somewhat reasonable, I suppose :)
 
11:53 AM
I don't think it would help :) Only if it slightly moved backwards in time would it probably be reasonable :)
the problem with both ideas, though, is that for the world to stand still you also need the speed of light to be equal to 0 :)
which would mean that even if you were exempt from the normal flow of time and space, you wouldn't be able to even start reading the first letter of a tutorial on *nix commands :)
unless there were a bubble of sorts where the space-time is normal while everything else stands still
the problem is that then you would definitely die before you learn everything there is to know about *nix as the time will march on for you :)
I suppose the takeaway is that if one wants to learn *nix is that you need to be (A) immortal (B) have a time-machine
 
@OlegValter lol! That kind of breaks my brain :)
Another funny thing is that if one was to be able to reach the speed of light, one would also experience the end of the universe immediately :) Unless one gets into a collision and reduces speed.
 
@Scratte I think colliding with something at a speed of light and experiencing the end of the universe is pretty much indistinguishable in terms of consequences :)
 
@OlegValter Probably :) But technically it's not.. one would die before the end of the universe. Which would be a bummer if speed was reached just to see the end of the universe :)
 
@Scratte did you keep your brain warranty? :)
 
I never got it. They cheated me.. It's just typical! Since it's been acting more and more wonky lately. Unless I did get it, but forgotten about it.. hmm..
 
12:07 PM
what I meant is, well, imagine what happens if everything in the Universe literally goes still - there is simply no light then
 
So a light particle travels in darkness all its life. How ironic :/
 
well, wave-particle, more precisely, methinks :) But if you are moving with a speed of light, your eyes would not be even capable of registering the input, I suppose, should you somehow survive the acceleration
 
I didn't plan on going from earth-speed to light-speed in a second <-- ha! is that even applicable :D
 
where did you find it? :)
 
What do you mean? It came out of my brain.. not sure how it got computed in it.
 
12:14 PM
ah, I thought it is a quote from somewhere else
 
That was just me questioning my own thought, I guess :)
 
I suspect no matter how slow you accelerate to the speed of light, it is going to kill you long before one reaches even a fraction of it
 
That is not true.. I go from earth-speed to 50 km/hour relative to 0 on the planet all the time, and either one of those is a fraction of light-speed ;) And if I died, I'm completely ignorant about it.
 
not that kind of fraction :)
 
I see.. there are different levels of fractions ;)
 
12:17 PM
but most likely one will bump head-first into a celestial body long before that :) or a smaller one would pierce the hull at an enormous speed
after all, the space is far from empty
 
I guess a spec of dust from the tesla is pretty nasty once one gets going.
My first point of order would be to use black tape to cover up the "DON'T" :)
 
won't a collision with even a spec at an extremely high speed cause a much more devastating reaction than just a hole? :)
 
@OlegValter I think Einstein says something about energy being related to mass and speed of light. But that last bit is constant. I suppose there's another one about inertia that would cover colliding with something going very fast.
 
1:08 PM
If anyone's interested, the post got another downvote both yesterday and today.
 
1:33 PM
@Scratte write a simple scraper already :)
 
Naah.. I just load the last page sorted by votes :)
Once I'm on that page my Fanatic badge helper script is active :)
 
2:33 PM
Ha! chmod 6 filename is equivalent to chmod 006 filename :D
 
2:59 PM
@OlegValter Depends on how you measure it :P
@Scratte I've been using Linux actively(-ish) for close to 10 years. Almost 11, in fact. I don't think I know "properly" about it. I can install it, I can use it. I know some of how to administer it. I know how to use some of the common *NIX tools. I'm certainly not anywhere close to an expert. I haven't ever recompiled the kernel and that's even some of the low-hanging "advanced" tasks.
 
But I expect you're also not a linux or GNU developer, right? :)
Unless you're a linux administrator and you've very good at winging it, then perhaps you just know that is needed to use it :)
 
@Scratte No, I'm not. I have some basic Linux administration knowledge but others would make daemons and restart services like it's nothing. They'd know which config to change for which thing and so on and in general how to keep a Linux machine in peak operating condition.
I'm more of a power user. I know how to write some basic scripts to do what I want and know enough to google for the piece of code or config change I probably need.
 
Isn't it the same with Windows? Being a user and an administrator is very different.
 
When you say "properly" using Linux, I envision more of administration work.
If you just want to use it, then honestly there isn't that much to it.
 
Hmm.. yes, you're right :) But even a user of a system can do it very improperly :D
 
3:13 PM
The biggest problem is to unlearn what you know about Windows. Because Windows trains certain things in a different way which isn't always bad but it's also not applicable for the general case. E.g., in Windows partitions are C:, D:, etc while in Linux you have a single directory tree, not one for each partition.
 
But Windows also doesn't have a root folder
 
Yes. Well, it has one per partition but still. It's a difference which can catch you off-guard if you just a Windows power user who tries out Linux for the first time.
 
I didn't get to the /mount and /dev stuff yet. So I'm kind of not sure what to expect.
 
It's probably way easier to start using Linux if you have less knowledge of computers.
Because there are less expectations for how it "should work".
 
I've "used" *nix systems before, but generally never with any privileges. So I've only ever used it to log in, check out a file.. usually deleting some huge log fig that I created by using another system, and log out.
 
3:19 PM
I'll have to try giving my parents my Linux laptop to use for a while. I suspect they'd not really mind. They know enough to get around Windows to do what they need. So, it's not a big change. Probably less of a change than when Windows 7 updated to Windows 10.
 
@VLAZ I'm not sure my years of being a Windows user is going to be a problem much, because I've only really ever used the Windows graphical user interface. I don't even know how to check out file permissions or any other information using the command line.
 
Neither did I before I started using Linux.
 
The Linux Mint graphical user interface seems like it's not really very difficult. I just point and click and it does what I expect it to do. The only problem is that I got very confused about how to install software on it. And how to maintain that software.
The fact that I couldn't figure out where it installed it, didn't help either. And that it tends to not even warn when the disk is getting full had me a bit miffed with it.
 
@Scratte Yep. Honestly, the UI part is amazing. The problem is that historically, it wasn't always there. So a lot of guides for "how to do X" just tell you to use the command line. And there are probably multiple GUIs for administering the same thing. They'd do the same operations at the end but you cannot really write a guide that shows a specific GUI.
 
I'm not even sure the learning curve for Linux is any different than for Windows. If you compare GUI's on both, or if you compare bash versus PowerShell.
 
3:24 PM
Learning curve from zero to "normal user" is probably the same in both cases.
 
But I think most people compare the Windows GUI versus the linux bash.. and then surely linux is hard, because you need to remember all the command names, whereas a GUI gives you options.
 
Not sure for the learning curve to "power user". But nowadays, ironically, might also be the same because Windows makes all the power options harder with each update.
 
I did half a tutorial on PowerShell some time back, and I can't remember half of those command names.
@VLAZ Only from the GUI. Not from PowerShell :)
 
Eh, you can still do a lot through the GUI on Linux. Nowadays it's way easier. You can even install GUIs for particular tools, as well.
 
Sure.. but you have to know which tools to install. And you need to know how to install them :)
 
3:30 PM
The Software Centre in Mint is honestly amazing. It's similar to Apple's one (forget the name) and more recently Windows added the marketplace (also forget its name). It's very similar to the appstore on mobile - you have a central location where to search for and install applications.
 
Some things on any computer just trips me up. When I need to know what the options are, and I don't.. then I get tripped up over it. Like when I want to start a VM, I have 3 options, 1. Normal start, 2. headless mode and 3. detached mode. I have no idea what 2 and 3 even means.
 
"headless" is computer slang for "without a GUI"
 
@VLAZ Yes.. once you know how it works :) But as you explained to me, the dpkg and the apt are separate programs and know nothing of eachother.
 
For a VM it means you can run the machine but you cannot see it. You can connect to it via RDP, for example, or perhaps SSH into it.
 
Ohh.. thanks :) That makes sense :)
 
3:32 PM
But I'm not sure what "detached" actually means in this context.
 
It's fine. I'll check it out :)
There's tons of other stuff I also get confused about. Like the options in the network part.
 
TBH, I don't think I've ever needed to change them.
 
I've never changed them. But when I see the options I figure I'm so clueless to everything.
Every single option has me wondering if I even know anything :D
Like "Enable 3D acceleration" <-- my screen only has 2 dimensions. So I cannot intuitively understand what that means.
 
It's another weird slang term. It means "use the graphics card".
 
lol! But there's another one what says "Enable 2D Video acceleration" :)
 
3:42 PM
"hardware acceleration" or "3D acceleration" is the same thing. I think it comes from way back to when graphics cards started to show up. Before them everything would be done via the CPU. With a graphics card, you'd be able to offload that processing. And hence the option to "accelerate" by using dedicated hardware for it.
And, to be honest, I don't know what 2D acceleration would be. It's not a term I've seen elsewhere. 3D/hardware acceleration shows up in games and other applications.
 
Thanks :) At least I'm not the only one that's slightly confused :)
 
Computing has all sorts of weird names for things that are confusing.
 
But if I were to understand all the options, I'd probably have to spend quite a bit of time researching. I think a lot of users kind of feel like this and just go with the default, because knowing about all of this is just too much.
 
Like the "turbo mode".
Older PCs (in the 90s) has a "turbo" button that made things FAST! Only it was a lie. It did the opposite.
 
I have no idea what turbo mode is.. unless it means that that when the ventilation kicks in, it accelerates the processor speed :D
 
3:47 PM
Toggling "turbo" changed the clock speed of the processor. And it actually underclocked it. The problem is that some software was written to only work at certain clock speed and newer processors were too fast, so certain applications didn't work right. That's where "turbo" came in - it would underclock so you could use that software. And turning the underclock off (which the computer case claimed is "turning turbo on") would actually run the CPU at normal speed.
It's like claiming that a car has "turbo mode" when you disengage the handbreak.
 
detachable means that you can close the VMVirtualBox window and it will still be running :)
In normal mode you can close the window without choosing what kind of shutdown you want for the guest.
@VLAZ Ha! Good analogy :)
You realize how this entire conversation just enforces the "VLAZ knows everything", right? :)
 
 
3 hours later…
7:28 PM
The countdown is real now.. 32 minutes
 
I'm surprised the chat room hasn't been created yet
Is your revision bot working again? Or did they fix something else?
 
I think it works :)
the tests pass
 
Nice :) Let's hope the one that created the test know what they are doing :D
Hmm.. viewing a tutorial that starts by saying "In order to create shell scripts, you have to know how to use vim, because shell scripts are made in vim" :O
8 minutes..
Argh!.. they even call vim and IDE :O
It's open! :)
Hrmf.. no candidates yet.. :P
 
9:04 PM
Heh.. Cody did awake.. and seems not pleased :D
 
9:31 PM
@Scratte you monsters! :)
 
It wasn't me! :)
 
we are doomed! Doomed, I tell ya! :)
 
It's the election. Moderators always awake for those :)
 
of course, who wants to be absent during time to perform the bloody ritual :)
 
There's no y there.. ;)
 
9:44 PM
it's a quantum "y" :)
 
Oh.. it's both blood and bloody at the same time, but no one know before we take the knife out?
 
something like that :)
 
10:16 PM
Argh!..
That's going to result in more deletions on meta :(
 
Wait until you see it..
 
ok..?
I am just glad the EB makes announcements consistently :)
and in general in a very good mood today
 
that's.. what made me go Argh!
 
me in a good mood? :)
I am just joking around, though
 
10:27 PM
I just think of all the times that name is on an undeleted meta post. And the haunting of the previously suspended user. And 5 long comments in a row on meta posts.. doesn't sit well with me.
"In the case of code-only answers, a few of these do indeed have value".. hmm
 

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