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00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

12:00 AM
@Scratte ah, that's just a personal note regarding this exact situation. I don't like "prison math" in general - you just choose the highest one of all charges and go for it. No need to add them up like a shopping list
 
Also we do not treat it as murder. It's still an accident and involuntary man slaughter. They did not plan for anyone to die. They were careless about what they were doing. That makes a big difference.
 
@Scratte do you know countries that do not distinguish between manslaughter and murder?
obviously intent makes a big difference
 
@OlegValter I think the US doesn't effectively do that. They apply sentence on the result, not on intent.
 
@Scratte frankly, I am a bit wobbly on US penal law :( Maybe they do not
ah, no, they do
what is a little confusing is "involuntary manslaughter"
 
Well.. remember Aaron Swartz? They wanted to imprison him for 50 years! For downloading stuff!
 
12:04 AM
does this mean there can be "voluntary manslaughter"? I thought this is called murder
 
@OlegValter That's what we call murder. Then you want to kill someone.
But.. there is also a distinction between killing someone out of sudden anger and planning it for weeks.
The argument is that if you are planning something for a long time, you have that same time to change your mind. While if you get into a fit of rage, the situation probably doesn't allow you to change your mind about it. (Or rather you are not of a mindset that allows it)
 
@Scratte 35 years, methinks - and they killed themselves (or so they say) shortly after the charges
 
@OlegValter Yes, well.. it ruined his dreams, no?
 
@Scratte yes, it's just a bit silly to call manslaughter an "involuntary manslaughter" if the term for intentional killing is "murder" and not "voluntary manslaughter"
@Scratte well, of course there is
 
Not sure about that. If someone hurts your lover on purpose and you react strongly and kill them, it's not a planned murder. It's a voluntary manslaughter.
We just call is manslaughter. And then we have another adjective for involuntary, when it's an accident. We call it "negligent manslaughter".
 
12:10 AM
we had an interesting case recently regarding this, though. 3 girls planned and carried out a brutal murder of their father (I think it was the father, but may've been uncle) but it turned out that they abused them both physically and sexually for years and threatened to find and kill them should they run. This makes an interesting case of what the court ruling should be in such a situation
@Scratte I am just joking around regarding legal terminology :) You don't have to explain the difference between voluntary/involuntary
 
@OlegValter There was a similar case in England. I think they rule is that killing in affect does not only apply in the instant of the danger when it's abuse. This was about a woman that had burned her husband while he was sleeping.
 
@Scratte then it is pretty much the same case - they killed him while he was sleeping, and initially this was considered to be a premeditated murder case, but then a couple more "things" came to light regarding the matter
 
He had abused her for years, and the ruling was that she was not only in danger and not only being abused during the actual abuse. But she was constantly under threat of more, so her entire life was about the abuse. There was no time where it wasn't in effect.
 
I am not sure what the other case ended with, but the logic would be pretty similar - that "being in danger" here is considered to be present regardless of premeditation
 
They did a study about adrenalin and abuser versus abusee. As predicted the abuser gets adrenalin while it's going on, but the abusee has it all the time. Mostly because they never know when it's going to start again. The problem is that adrenalin destroys your tissue, so it's better to not constantly having it running in your veins. The abusee is being killed or at least getting a shorter life from just being abused.
 
12:20 AM
@Scratte that's... actually a pretty nice way of determining that someone's in the constant danger state
 
It was an English study done prior to new laws about stalking.
The argument has been that as long as the stalker didn't actually do anything, there were no laws against it. The study changed that.
LOL!.. It seems I got 201 reputation points just within the UTC day.
 
12:51 AM
@Scratte welcome to MSE :)
@Scratte yeah - this is how I think progress and technology can change the world to the better - we can now prove a lot of things we could only speculate about
 
@OlegValter Compared to the effort required of me to post on Stack Overflow, it's too ironic.
 
@Scratte yup
 
If I hadn't make the monster script, the screenshots would have taken some effort though.
Want to improve your reject/approve rating?
 
@Scratte depends on the direction :)
 
1:07 AM
I... don't know...
methinks I am going to reject
 
You actually didn't know? :D "What are the best algorithms..." :D
 
1:27 AM
@Scratte well, I thought so at the start :) but it turned out it's a no-brainer
 
1:50 AM
great, SE forgot to add itemprop on closed questions
 
 
2 hours later…
3:39 AM
@AKSingh are you around I need some favor :)
Can you share stackoverflow.com full page screenshot , I want to see it's different from over 10k , my script some where broken I am not sure if it's for that. Who ever around below 10k welcome to post.
 
3:56 AM
Okay. I am sharing in 2 minutes.
Does this help?
I was checking is there is some interesting question in algorithms. So it is not the homepage, will that work?
 
4:15 AM
@AKSingh Need 1 favor , without search. Thanks for help. If possible onebox your share , write some thing before screenshot.
 
Okay okay. I do not know what one box is though. Here is me writing something as you said.
A lot of tabs are opened. :)
 
thanks.
 
@Shree No problem.
 
 
4 hours later…
8:47 AM
@AKSingh an image is "oneboxed" if it's being displayed inline in chat.
 
9:09 AM
Oh...There are so many things in SO chat. I have not used it much.
 
 
4 hours later…
12:57 PM
@Shree Here is a screenshot in case of it is still needed. :)
@Scratte To be very clear, you and Oleg Valter are experts in accidents. :)
@Scratte It made the title longer...
@AKSingh Likely that algorithms are quite hard to answer and require long answers.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:29 PM
 
@Scratte I don't see anything wrong.
Content dispute.
A roll back war. :)
 
Heh.. and it's not possible to reach them in a comment :D :D
 
@Scratte The post is locked, only modreators are who able to comment. :)
Add it in SOCVR.
 
@KevinM.Mansour No.. do not do that..
 
@Scratte ?
Not sure why but try Meta.
Moderator actions should be discussed in Meta anyway.
Also in SOCVR but I am still not sure why you say no but OK.
 
2:38 PM
do you think it's worth posting a meta Q for that small mistake?
 
@double-beep No.. it's not.
 
exactly!
 
I left a message in SOCVR without mentioning the exact details and I'm sure it will be enough for the moderators to figure it out.
 
@Scratte So, why you said no from the beginning?
 
@KevinM.Mansour Don't link to the post, is what I meant.
 
2:40 PM
@Scratte Really?
Didn't understand it.
But OK.
 
I'm... pretty sure you don't agree with the advice, right @Scratte? :D
 
@double-beep Heh.. I never flagged it in the first place :)
But I don't think it's wise of me to say that in there.. :)
 
3:09 PM
@KevinM.Mansour 'scuse me?
 
@OlegValter You and Scratte talk a lot about accidents.
@OlegValter As well as I am not sure why you replaced e with ', I always write it as "Excuse me".
 
I find it to be a little funny when you're having a fight with the school master on your first school day :D
 
@Scratte Yes, making trouble from the first day. :)
But for me, the first day in School is best, because you generally meet new people and teachers as well. So, it looks like a good day. :)
 
@KevinM.Mansour ah, I see!
@KevinM.Mansour no reason, I just like how some forms considered archaic sound/read
you might've noticed "methinks", "'tis", etc
 
3:24 PM
@OlegValter Oh. OK. :)
@OlegValter Yes, I noticed.
 
@Scratte I see Martijn noted the wrong revision - I just love how the post revision history looks like now - some people are insufferable uncooperative
@KevinM.Mansour although I am not sure there exists a short form of "excuse" :) It's an experiment
 
@OlegValter Feel free to invent one. ;)
 
@KevinM.Mansour on an off-note, there was no point in trying Meta because it was already tried - this post was brought up by a user exactly for the reasons of editing in snarky remarks. The reporting user wanted to know if they should edit it given that they both answered the question, so there is a conflict of interest.
 
@OlegValter Yes, OK. But I thought if we post on Meta, a moderator will notice then they can unlock, rollback, then lock again. That is all.
 
0
Q: Unfollowing a question triggers a "you're no longer following this answer" pop-up

JenayahSeen on mobile web, Brave browser version 1.27.109, Android 10, cannot confirm on other browsers (yet). Following, then unfollowing a question triggers a pop-up reading: You're no longer following this answer Presumably this should read "you're no longer following this question", or "this post"...

@KevinM.Mansour meh, SOCVR is faster :)
 
3:39 PM
@OlegValter Same as what I said above. :)
 
@OlegValter There's an entire minute between the rollback and the lock. I'm going to guess that Martijn had a lot of balls in the air, and the poster was notified of the edit and could easily sneak in their version.
 
But Scratte is undefined. :D
 
@Scratte given their behavior, they likely were lying in wait for anyone to rollback to override it
 
@OlegValter We need a userscript to fix typos. ;)
 
@KevinM.Mansour No.. posting this on meta will only say two things to the entire meta crowd "1. This moderator made a mistake! Check it out!!! and 2. This user is doing so and so.. Check them out!!!".. now everyone will say "Please! For the love of the world! Understand that moderators are human beings. They are not robots, and they make mistakes! Do let it go..".. and then they'll go and check out the user. There's no need for any of that.
 
3:43 PM
@OlegValter interesting. In order to determine the post type, SE runs $followBtn.hasClass('js-follow-question'). But .js-follow-question class isn't added on mobile views for some reason
 
@Scratte OK, let's keep the post locked as the user desired version. ;)
 
@KevinM.Mansour Trust me when I say that the post will be handled.. I put a seed in SOCVR and it is enough.
 
@Scratte OK. :)
 
@double-beep I am not even surprised :) I just wonder why they do not use their own global object...
 
@OlegValter Perhaps the developer that made this doesn't know about it :D
 
3:46 PM
@Scratte it is... likely :)
well, the bug report is probably in vain as mobile views are going to be offed soon
 
do they have a policy/linter rule to enforce var by the way? :D
 
@double-beep they might :) I think review queue scripts are now written in TypeScript, though
ah, no, it's worse...
those files are auto-generated via C# to TypeScript (??)
// THIS FILE IS AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED                  //
//                                                       //
// Changes will be discarded on next compile             //
//                                                       //
// To modify this file, make changes to:                 //
// Content\Js\reviews\definitions\_CSharpToTypescript.cs //
 
Maybe that makes sense in a strange sort of way. They seem to be using Microsoft products already.
If I recall correctly, their validation checks for posts and comments are run on a .NET regex engine.
 
well, I knew they are using C# for backend, but I have no idea how their build process looks like in terms of frontend...
_CSharpToTypescript means they probably transfer type definitions?
 
I'm just guessing, but it's likely that some backend people made some frontend stuff.. and they know C#, so..
 
3:55 PM
@OlegValter transpiled to ES5...
 
@double-beep yup. Although the dev notice is a bit confusing - it looks like they take C# types, transfer them to a TypeScript codebase, and then transpile everything to ES5...
and if they are using TypeScript, I am utterly baffled how they get so many bugs uncaught. TS is not a panacea, but it extremely reduces the number of errors that make it to prod
 
but what's the point?? They don't support ES5-browsers, so they could save some bytes with ES6+
 
They probably still have a lot of users that use browsers <ES6
So they don't officially support them, but they don't want to miss out.. ?
 
I have no idea why... Most likely the team that makes decisions and the team that maintains the build process are not the same team, @double-beep
 
Heh.. that is another good guess :)
 
4:04 PM
what is even stranger is why not serve different bundles depending on browser feature support?
@Scratte judging by people popping up here and there because the UI team stopped caring about that, there definitely are some :)
@Scratte my bet is on that it worked like this since time immemorial, so now no one knows why it is configured like this, but the ritual must go on.
 
4:18 PM
@KevinM.Mansour In our country, we have to know graph algorithms, trees, sorting, searching and string algorithms. It is mandatory for us. I am learning them. I do not know a lot.
If you do competitive programming, you have to know a lot more.
 
@AKSingh Bad.
Even India is a complicated country.
But at least it is nice that you can learn programming in Schools.
 
@AKSingh mandatory? o_O
 
@OlegValter Ah! Yes.. that makes even more sense :)
@OlegValter Probably for programming. Likely not if you're studying Psychology ;)
 
@Scratte LOL!
 
@Scratte well, for programming, I'd say we likely need this too. I do not have formal training but I worked in one of technology unis and recall those in curriculums
it just came off as if they have to know that to pass a state exam :)
 
4:32 PM
Yes, I had a course called algorithms too.
 
@Scratte In School?
University?
 
University is school, when you're doing a degree, no?
 
@Scratte yeah, methinks those are part of CS101
 
@Scratte Nope. :)
 
It was second year, right after: Make a pipelined processor simulator :)
 
4:34 PM
I may have read too much into what @AKSingh said :)
 
School is different than University. :)
 
although it would be so cool if this was required
and basics of formal logic too. Don't pass - don't graduate
 
@KevinM.Mansour Not to me. You go to class, you have homework.. you may have to hand in a project. At the end of the semester, you have an exam.
 
@Scratte OK. :)
 
That is the undergraduate part. It's exactly like any other school.
 
4:36 PM
yeah, with a little bit more personal freedom, but overall, not too different
 
@Scratte As predicted :)
 
@Scratte Good.
Squirrels are not bad at the end. ;)
 
I hope they are not bad at the start too
 
Forgive Kevin. They do not know what they say ;D
 
@Scratte Hmm.
@OlegValter They are just not understandable but OK. :)
 
4:40 PM
@Scratte :)
 
@OlegValter @KevinM.Mansour We are not taught in schools. These are topics which are asked in interviews by tech-giants here like Google, Amazon, Facebook. We have to learn them by ourselves. Not everyone does so, only a few people who want good jobs or who like it, they learn it.
 
@AKSingh lol!
What about JavaScript?
 
@KevinM.Mansour That is not funny..
 
We are not JavaScript, HTML, Kotlin...nothing
 
@AKSingh Can't you learn any other languages and get a good job?
 
4:44 PM
We are taught Java, C++, C and Python. That too, in a very bad manner. If someone actually wants to learn programming, they have to do it themself.
 
The fact that one needs to do a second "degree" at home, just to be able to talk in an interview, is a sign that companies will press people beyond reasonable. There's no reason you should be expert and memorize Tim-sort to do Java programming. That they require this is ridiculous.
 
@AKSingh ah, you got me scared for a second :)
 
@KevinM.Mansour You can. However, you then have to juggle college and your desires like I do.
 
@AKSingh Oh. OK. :)
 
I am learning what are my current subjects in college and what I actually find interesting.
 
4:47 PM
Great. :)
 
I find that the best people are the ones that don't give up.. the ones that are willing to learn and the ones that will make an effort to do it right. Being able to write the code for Tim-sort on the blackboard isn't the right thing to look for.
 
@KevinM.Mansour Do not know if its great or not.
 
@KevinM.Mansour Java, C, C++, and sometimes Python are standard curriculum elements. learning JS... does not serve any educational purpose since it is a high-level language with most of the things traditional programmers used to think about abstracted away to the point of having only one number type (not so true anymore, but BigInt is used, like, never)
 
@AKSingh I mean about "what I actually find interesting.", that means you learn what you like and that's great for me. :)
 
@KevinM.Mansour @Scratte I try to learn what I like. There are limits though. I cannot do that a lot.
 
4:49 PM
Another thing that I find to be important is if people start making solution before they know what the requirement is. If they do that, they're wasting too much time (both theirs but also the time of other people) and almost always get it wrong.
 
@OlegValter I wanted to learn JavaScript. Never had enough time though.
Hopefully, next year.
 
It is very nice langauge.
 
@AKSingh Just read the code of Oleg's on various posts :)
 
I love to implement things on my own that are suited to me. Its a good way to spend time.
 
@AKSingh eh... there's little to learn, though - just imagine a Babel tower of approaches and languages and you got yourself a pretty good picture of what JS is :)
 
4:52 PM
You can start by making user scripts :D You'll learn during the process ;)
Perhaps making the ultra-dark mode from april 1st 2020 :)
I just loved that torch-look :)
I'm not sure how they did it though.. or rather I don't know what it would take to do it.
 
@Scratte or that :)
@Scratte not a lot, probably
just a nicely styled element and a mousemove listener
and with :hover and some clever trickery, it might even be possible in pure CSS :)
a div, a CSS mask, and a listener should be enough for a simple implementation :)
 
@Scratte @OlegValter I always found it intriguing. I would love to implement various kinds of scripts. Hopefully, next year.
 
5:10 PM
@AKSingh no rush :) My only advice is to jump to TypeScript as soon as you can (once you have a grasp on the basics) - it will save you a lot grey hairs
 
@OlegValter Not sure why TypeScript.
 
Not sure why not TypeScript.
 
@KevinM.Mansour no more "oh, I thought X is a string", "wait, 'length' is not spelled as 'lenght'", enum constructs, easier transfer from Java (public, protected, private modifiers on classes), autocompletion with any good IDE, etc, etc
 
@OlegValter Any ideas? :)
 
5:15 PM
@Scratte see below :)
 
I did.. the "clever trickery" is what is a little.. mysterious.
 
CSS mask is a set of style rules that allow image masking just as you would do in image editing programs like Photoshop.
if we think about it, all we need to reproduce April 1st is:
1. Set background color of everything to pitch black
2. Add a mousemove event listener to the document
3. Place an element with the center at the cursor pointer
4. Mask over it to achieve an "illumination" effect
well, that's all, done
 
I must try that :)
 
SE's version was probably a bit more involved, but this should do it :)
 
I think I will not make it ultra-dark with a flash light. I think I will pinkify it instead :)
 
5:25 PM
@OlegValter I am just wondering because I didn't see anything good from Microsoft so far but OK. Looks good. :)
 
@KevinM.Mansour you are using VS Code...
 
@OlegValter Yes.
 
so..?
 
It is kind of open source, so others do work not just Microsoft.
That's why it is good.
If Microsoft developed Visual Studio Code alone, I am pretty sure it won't be good like now.
 
@KevinM.Mansour Visual Studio...
 
5:32 PM
@OlegValter I don't understand.
 
help, I need translation!
I just think it is a bit unfair to say "I didn't see anything good from Microsoft so far" given the products they made so far. Same goes for Google and other tech giants. We may discuss shady practices, true, but this is on par with "the worst UI in my life"...
 
Wait.. you're using Windows 10 and Visual Studio Code, but "didn't see anything good from Microsoft"? :)
@OlegValter Even if you could speak Lion, you would still not be able to understand it. The mindset is just incompatible ;)
 
Windows is not good, Visual Studio is not good, C# is not good (tried one time), .NET is not good, Visual Studio Code is good but it is open source (means other people work in it), etc. So, I don't have a hope in any thing from Microsoft.
 
If anyone has ever said about me that I only deal in absolutes, they have never met Kevin :D
 
@Scratte I use Windows but that doesn't mean it is good.
 
5:45 PM
@Scratte Darth Kevin :)
 
Right.. so what would be needed for Windows to be "good"?
 
@Scratte First, slow.
Second, a lot of updates.
 
@KevinM.Mansour You're sure you're not running a 100 programs on it that's slowing it down?
@KevinM.Mansour Do you even notice those?
 
@Scratte Yes, sometimes it take up to 10 minutes to update.
@Scratte No. Just Firefox, Visual Studio Code, File explorer and sometimes Git Bash.
 
I'm running several browers and multiple tabs in each. One I have about 20 tabs on. Then I'm running two windows of Visual Studio code, a few editors and some file explorers. And I find Windows is pretty fast.
 
5:50 PM
@Scratte For me, no.
 
Heh.. it seems we got an angry "customer" on meta.
 
still up?
-6
Q: Why do I get downvotes on this question?

ChrisI don't care whether I am upvoted or downvoted as long as it is justified. But now I'm annoyed because a question was downvoted. Perhaps because a question is "too stupid" for someone or it is not understood. I dont know. But isn't this a forum to ask unanswered questions? An example is this ques...

^ this one?
@KevinM.Mansour dunno... what your OS is installed on, HDD?
 
@OlegValter Yes.
I know that I should upgrade but not now.
 
@KevinM.Mansour well, that's your answer, basically :) On an SSD, it is lightning-fast
 
6:06 PM
I should upgrade. :)
 
6:23 PM
@OlegValter Yup. That one. Seems I didn't make a good impression :D
 
7:19 PM
sorry, I've been busy implementing the flashlight :)
^ 36 lines, and most of them are boilerplate :)
 
@OlegValter LOL! What's that?
 
((w,d) => {

    const addStyles = (d) => {
        const style = d.createElement("style");
        d.head.append(style);
        const { sheet } = style;
        if(!sheet) return;

        sheet.insertRule(`.overlay {
            width: 15vh;
            height: 15vh;
            margin: auto;
            position: fixed;
            z-index: 9999;
            outline: 100vw solid black;
            background-image: radial-gradient(
                circle at 50% center, transparent 0%, black 75%
 
Is that the Ultra-Dark theme?
 
yup, just recreated it
that's all that's needed to make it
@Scratte what do you think about putting it on our 404 page till you get to the game dev tutorial? :) The flashlight could run out of batteries too :)
 
@OlegValter Awesome! :)
Putting it on the 404 sounds like a great idea :) I think perhaps the radius should be a little wider.
 
7:30 PM
@Scratte resizable sounds like fun :)
I need to proxy clicks, though
 
I don't see the mask-thing you linked to.
 
I decided against it :)
it is much simpler this way
 
Ahh.. that's fine. I just thought I was going blind or something :)
 
((w,d) => {

    const addStyles = (d) => {
        const style = d.createElement("style");
        d.head.append(style);
        const { sheet } = style;
        if(!sheet) return;

        sheet.insertRule(`.overlay {
            width: 15vh;
            height: 15vh;
            margin: auto;
            position: fixed;
            z-index: 9999;
            outline: 100vw solid black;
            background-image: radial-gradient(
                circle at 50% center, transparent 0%, black 75%
^ version that does not prevent click-through - I forgot pointer-events
 
You don't think a z-index of 99 was enough? :D
How many layers are there at the 404 page?
 
7:39 PM
it's over 9000!
 
Hmm.. does it have to be over 9000? :)
No.. seriously?!? Do they have 9000 layers at the 404 on GitHub?!?
 
@Scratte eh, it's like, a tradition :)
because if the developer sets z-index to a too low value, they are screwed
so we use arbitrarily large values just in case
 
Hmm.. so what if I write a user script on top of that? Do I need 10001? :)
 
@Scratte yup
 
OK. Then why not 99999999999999999999999999999999999999.9 + 0.1?
 
7:48 PM
1e4 will do too, though :)
@Scratte must be an integer
exact cap is browser-specific
> Opera 12.1 supports values up to 2^15 - 1, IE up to 2^20 - 1, and other browsers even higher
 
I see. So by using 9999, you're really already jumping a lot closer to the cap, no? Compared to 999 or 99 where there's be lots in between :)
 
@Scratte yup, but still far from it
in any case 9999 is idiomatic :) And means "this element must definitely be on top"
 
That makes sense. Unless there's another script that has a light switch that can be turned on :D
 
and someone probably was just a Dragon Ball Z fan :)
@Scratte true
 
Heh.. That would be fun too. Put a button somewhere that looks like a switch. If the user finds it, they can turn the lights on :D Or off..
 
7:57 PM
I added a horror element :) Will show in a sec
^ the flashlight now dies after a while :) I sped this up, but it should likely be a slower process :)
to avoid reposting, here is a secret gist
 
@OlegValter LOL! Out of batteries, I thought you were joking...
 
do I ever joke?
 
I think no.
 
exactly!
next, let's make it rechargeable :)
 
I am writing this message from the flashlight.
It went out of battery faster than what I thought...
Couldn't complete the message.
 
8:05 PM
5 seconds in full, another 5 in low :)
it makes no sense to test with long timings
you can adjust the timeouts to change that
 
@OlegValter Nice.
@OlegValter True.
 
^ recharging in 10 clicks :)
 
LOL!
I can't get it to recharge.. and I clicked a lot :)
 
I did not update the gist yet
 
Ohh.. I see :) No worries then. My mouse was getting cranky saying "Stop! It's no use.. :)"
 
8:14 PM
I need to make it repeat recharge-drain process first, a sec :)
 
No rush :)
 
8:50 PM
hmmm... devtools BSed me in terms of event listener leaks a little...
 
Looks like a car flashlight... :)
LOL! I recharged. :)
Recharging is quite nice because it gives you more time.
 
I designed it after a simple motion-rechagreable flashlight :)
 
^^ I have written the two messages above with flashlight. Recharged 3 times.
Very cool.
 
btw, latest version is easier to configure - I added a lifespan parameter
1/3 of lifespan spent -> slow blink
2/3 of lifespan spent -> fast blink
3/3 -> recharge needed
 
I think I will set the time to longer. Like 30 minutes. Then when the batteries are empty, I'm not allowed to chat anymore :)
 
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