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9:01 PM
Even if the operation as such would be ok (which it isn't, thx puppy), but the resulting iterator is undefined and can hence no longer be compared.
 
nope
 
You couldn't guarantee that (v.begin()--) == (v.begin()--)), making it useless as a PTE iterator (you couldn't use it!=v.rend() as a loop condition)
 
it's UB to ever go before "begin", ever.
even having such an iterator is UB
 
C++ ain't is rocket science.
 
C++ is rock bottom
@Specksynder still reading ? :)
 
9:03 PM
C++ is statically typed.
 
:)
for better or worse, C++ is still widely in use, and a skill worth having
 
Oh no one here doubts that
 
I'd value having other skills a little more
 
@DeadMG I think I just thought of a compelling reason for the standard to be so rigid. Thinking of Input/Output iterators
@DeadMG You want to talk about it?
 
@sehe Well, decrementing before begin is a programmer error, no question, so UB seems to fit here fine.
@sehe Not really, you already know my life story :P
 
9:06 PM
I'd like to have better bicycling skills.
 
@DeadMG Well, totally agree. But why would 'decrementing is UB' be more appropriate than 'decrementing yields an undefined value'?
@RadekSlupik How's that. Do you keep falling over?
 
Like in GTA, where they are 100% and I can just drive straight upon a wall and I don't fall off.
 
That's not skill. That's Skill Shimano
 
Shimano is the brand of my bicycle's gears and breaks.
 
@sehe There were implementations, especially under segmentation, where the processor could fault on such things.
 
9:09 PM
@RadekSlupik Actually, named Skill-Shimano for a good number of years
 
Oh. :P
 
There goes another well crafted pun
 
I also need better sleeping skills.
 
Because, you are sleepless and you don't live there?
 
And I want to decorate my room with skulls.
 
9:10 PM
@sehe, was that video in German, or Dutch?
 
A better skullset, noted
@Specksynder Dutch, I guess (TS;DW)
 
@sehe I'm often tired in the morning. :P
 
the reason why i++ + ++i is UB is because of instruction-level parallelism in Itanium
 
@sehe stop being so cryptic all the time.
 
even though Itanium didn't exist at the time
 
sbi
9:11 PM
Whoa. I am a bit absent for about 60hrs, and the puppy changes his avatar. Nest thing you know, he'll use a pic of his dog at an adult age, and we're suddenly totlally out of puppies here!
 
@DeadMG that, and expression optimization, I guess
@RadekSlupik Too Short/Silly/Stupid/Sordid/Sumptuous/Sexy, Didn't Watch
 
sbi
@DeadMG That has been UB in C, IIRC! C is 40 years old.
 
TL;DW you mean?
 
@sbi Yep. It was a purely theoretical optimisation on a purely theoretical architecture.
 
37 secs ago, by sehe
@RadekSlupik Too Short/Silly/Stupid/Sordid/Sumptuous/Sexy, Didn't Watch
 
9:13 PM
@sehe you overestimate our attention span with a 5 min video :)
 
@DeadMG I think I can think of compiler optimizations that completely shift the evaluation order around. No need for fancy processors, I suppose
@Specksynder Who are you? Have we met before?
 
Stop thinking. It's bad for zeh brainz.
 
@Specksynder Still, 5 min > 37 secs (^^^)
 
(^^^) is that a tulip?
 
@RadekSlupik Stop brains. Also cures thinking
@RadekSlupik Packard bell. Olivetti
 
9:15 PM
Stop BREIN, ja.
Tim Kuik is worse than rms.
 
Root Mean Square :)
Ok, I'll stop procrastinating, more preparing to be done.
 
I have ketchup-flavoured crisps.
 
Take it, satay-flavoured didn't really go down that well?
 
@sehe Architectures like x86 don't even have an instruction that does not immediately sequence the incrementation.
 
Dec 11 '11 at 14:34, by WTP
Yum, just ate 300g of bacon crisps.
^ safe bet
 
9:18 PM
Whats the deal with bacon? Is it really that tasty?(veg. here)
 
Yes.
Also, hi.
 
@DeadMG Huh. I don't think you need to have a processor involved at all. A sufficiently complex subexpression could trigger the evaluation order dependence, the way I see it.
 
Oh, the puppy changed avatar.
 
@Specksynder it is fucking tasty.
 
right, but that can only get you unspecified values.
not undefined behaviour.
 
9:20 PM
Too many people, btw: what if I told you, writing “f*ck” isn't less offensive than writing “fuck”?
 
@DeadMG huh. what is the difference
@RadekSlupik old news
 
@RadekSlupik Been done to death.
 
Companies where saying “fuck” is frowned upon are the companies I don't want to work for. :P
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Where have you been all day?
 
I just don't think I can ever objectively pick one kind of vegetable to be ever tastier than any other kind. So, the whole bacon worship is hard to comprehend.
 
9:22 PM
@RadekSlupik they all care when you say it to the wrong customer
 
@sehe why would I talk to the customer?
 
Degrees of Kevin Bacon
He's one educated guy
@RadekSlupik Why would you say 'fuck' otherwise?
 
@Specksynder I can't imagine myself to be vegetarian. Meat is so damn tasty.
 
@sehe An unspecified value means "I have an int, and it's value, I am not completely certain what that value is".
Undefined Behaviour is "My entire program is now entirely bogus and nothing, at all, means anything anymore."
 
@sehe anger, because zeh codez no work.
 
9:23 PM
@DeadMG Oh. I think, perhaps I should have read one of the 12863 duplicates on Stack Overflow
 
@ManofOneWay Offline.
 
@RadekSlupik, I tasted salmon. I just didn't like the taste at all.
 
@RadekSlupik You talk to your code? Helpt het?
 
@sehe interjections.
 
@Specksynder Well, duh. Try Salmon with bacon
@RadekSlupik expletives
 
9:25 PM
Just like you say godverdomme when you accidentally something on your foot.
 
@RadekSlupik Never do
 
You grew up in the Netherlands, huh? :P
 
Yup. Raised well :)
 
Godverdomme seems something terribly hard to say when you accidentally something on your foot.
 
I often say kanker. :(
I am a bad person.
 
9:26 PM
I'm also from Roosendaal, but I can only half imitate Tullepetoans when I'm really in the mood
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That's not a place, that's a state
 
It's a place! I swear! There's things outside the Internet! I'm not crazy!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Well, when I do, it might actually slip out. I'd have to have been frustrated before, though.
 
Offline still isn't a place
 
Roosendaal is a place with a lot of cool people.
 
9:28 PM
Well, it's certainly not a federal state
 
@sehe where in Roosendaal did you live, if I may ask?
 
@RadekSlupik Because it is too far from the damn tropes?
@RadekSlupik Langdonk. Elisadonk, specifically. 5 mins from Gertrudis
 
A friend of mine lives there!
 
@RadekSlupik Awesum. House number :) ?
 
I don't know. Somewhere in the middle of the street.
 
9:29 PM
@sehe No, but a state of connectivity
 
@ManofOneWay Kind request to reply to specific messages. I can't follow your (late) replies
@RadekSlupik "Our house" :)
 
@sehe that is possible. :P
 
lots of europeans here? hows life with the euro crisis?
 
Why does this allow me to take the address of a temporary?
 
from this side of the pond, things look like WW2 - fighting divided along nationalist lines...
 
9:33 PM
@sehe it's the fifth/sixth house from the alley.
 
 
@sehe fuck.
I am confusing it with Donkenweg. xD
 
@FredOverflow Why not? In case you wanted to pass the address to a function taking a pointer?
@RadekSlupik Mmm. Close, but no cigar
 
@sehe The standard forbids it. & only works on lvalues.
 
But I have another friend living in Elisadonk, but I have never visited her house.
 
9:35 PM
@FredOverflow maybe it results in a const* pointing to an unnamed const& .. long shot, but C++ is full of surprises
 
@FredOverflow even when it is overloaded and const?
 
@RadekSlupik I didn't overload & for X.
 
Overload it and return this. :P
 
Also, I walked too fast, according to GMaps, I should have been taking >6mins to get to school. I'm pretty sure my record time was around 3 mins
 
@RadekSlupik I want it to fail, but ideone fails to fail :(
 
9:36 PM
@FredOverflow that'd be gcc
 
@sehe We always walked to the C1000 in ten minutes. :/
How fast do you walk? 1000 km/h?
 
@FredOverflow gcc 4.6.1 fails it:
> test.cpp|13 col 21| error: taking address of temporary [-fpermissive]
 
Oh wait you took the alley.
 
@RadekSlupik Obviously. Why waste time :) Cycling was about as slow, because you had to avoid those pesky 'fietshekjes' - or they took all the pace out
 
I know a friend who lives there and he can look at the school from his bedroom. In the winter he empties a bucket of water in front of the school and the next morning he watches people fall over the ice.
 
9:39 PM
The actual route would be even straighter than depicted by GMaps
@RadekSlupik You have charming friends
 
I know. My friends are great, otherwise they wouldn't be my friends.
 
<whistle/>
Oh noes. Pirates.
Get to tha choppah
 
Roosendaal is a boring city. I prefer Eindhoven and Amsterdam.
 
@RadekSlupik Eindhoven I donot know. Breda and BoZ are cool. Tilburg is much like Roosendaal. Actually, Roosendaal has classy spots compared to ConcreteCity Tilburg
 
Breda is AWESOME.
Best city in the world.
Full of emos.
 
9:44 PM
And jazz
 
And cool shops.
 
In Roosendaal, find the right spot, point your camera in just the right direction, and you can make it look like something. Your current workplace is in a sad spot, but assuming you go to the Kaai for lunch there are some nicer spots. Including the not so well hidden Paterskerk, I presume
@RadekSlupik My sister used to live in Breda, so I walked the same stretch of Breda quite a number of times. That was before she moved to Uganda :)
 
go to the Kaai for lunch? That's a waste of time. We order pizza.
 
@RadekSlupik Eating pizza in a pizza box. How appropriate
 
Or friet, or we go get döner kebab.
Speaking of Breda, I need a new pair of pants.
A black one with chains and a spiky belt.
 
9:48 PM
Dumb question, but what syntax have I forgotten
#include <unordered_map>

struct A { };

namespace std {
	template<>
	struct hash<A> {
		size_t operator()(const A& ptr) const;
	};

	template<>
	size_t hash<A>::operator()(const A& ptr) const {
		return 0;
	}
}

int main() { }
errors with error: template-id 'operator()<>' for 'std::size_t std::hash<A>::operator()(const A&) const' does not match any template declaration
 
 
class A
 
@RadekSlupik There's your pizza box ^
 
@RadekSlupik A is defined above the namespace std
 
9:50 PM
	// template<>
	size_t hash<A>::operator()(const A& ptr) const {
		return 0;
	}
 
@sehe pizza box?
 
@SethCarnegie doesn't that work ^
@RadekSlupik (a) isn't that where you work? (b) doesn't it look eerily like a pizza box?
:4534988 look closer
 
@sehe yep, thanks
 
@sehe (a) it is. (b) you have a great imagination.
 
@SethCarnegie The thing is, the definition of the body of the specialization, isn't a function template but a regular function
 
9:52 PM
Oh C++, your grammer is worse than Frensh'.
 
@sehe ok, so there's 3 different ways to define member functions (normal, specialisation, non-specialisation of specialisation)
correct?
 
What's a "non-specialisation of specialization"?
 
@RadekSlupik I just thought it looked sad. And then you add insult to injury and order pizza. This was long time, my work place: villavrijenban.nl/over-villa-vrijenban
They had a 'Grand Cafe' at level ground
 
@RMartinhoFernandes what I just did
 
@SethCarnegie Nope. You just specialized the class template. Then you implemented a member on it, not a template
 
9:54 PM
@sehe isn't that what I said
 
@sehe pizza > grand cafe
 
a non-specialisation (the member function) of a specialisation (the class template)
 
@RadekSlupik False dichotomy again
 
but my 3 ways don't include template member functions of template classes
 
@SethCarnegie implementation, less confusing
 
9:54 PM
This is a joke, right?
 
1. refer to them as `class templates` and `member function templates`. 2. wait 6 months 3. ??? 4. Profit!
Thinking much clearer now
 
struct class_template : public template
 
1. Profit!
 
struct member_function_template : public template
 
Much faster.
 
9:56 PM
I can call them both template
 
@SethCarnegie you know, you can call it all you want, but hipster 'pseudo-code' diagrams aren't going to help you convey your intent.[*] Also, I'm just trying to straighten out the terminology in case you don't like being caught out in a situation like this next time. I don't mind :)
[*] I mean, even the robot was flustered
 
@sehe I don't think my terminology was the source of my problem though
 
Ok, shalom!
 
I don't speak Yiddish
 
C++ is ugly. Dutch is beautiful.
 

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