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1:28 AM
@rgchris Perhaps escaping is the missing link for NewPath?
Hopefully the disappointment one would feel from not being able to have dialects that treat [%file and 'lit-word] differently is mitigated by having a ton more "types", even structural ones. %(...), %%double-lit-word, %<lit-tag> and such. I'm not disappointed because I hate that apostrophe! We'll make up for it with a better solution for @, which I will no longer try to claim for lit-ness
And actually, you don't have to be too disappointed...as eventually 'this-is-just-a-weird-word-that-starts-with-apostrophe
 
 
3 hours later…
4:12 AM
posted on December 30, 2018 by @hostilefork Brian Dickens

@hostilefork wrote: We now have a generalized variation of LIT-WORD! and LIT-PATH! you can use on any type, to any depth. Evaluation just picks one level of escaping off when it sees an escaped value, but otherwise leaves the value as-is. >> \(1 + 2) == (1 + 2) >> \\\a == \\a More examples The feature is a paradigm shift, it changes many

 
 
1 hour later…
5:24 AM
posted on December 30, 2018 by @hostilefork Brian Dickens

@hostilefork wrote: A proposal from 2014, before Ren-C existed, was NewPath. (yes, it was a very intentional Scanner Darkly reference) I was talked out of wacky decomposition of URL! into PATH! with a SET-WORD! at the head, etc. @rgchris convinced me that URLs should be left “as-is”, so you could copy and paste them between the browser and your script

 
 
6 hours later…
11:18 AM
@HostileFork my wish about COMPOSE/DEEP and LITs: a \\GROUP lose the \\ and is COMPOSEd/DEEP, while a \\...\\GROUP lose a \\ and is inserted as is. So: compose/deep [\(1 + 2) = (1 + 2) \(\(1 + 2) = (1 + 2)) \\(\(1 + 2) = (1 + 2))] => [(1 + 2) = 3 ((1 + 2) = 3) \(\(1 + 2) = (1 + 2))]
 
 
5 hours later…
4:35 PM
@giuliolunati If you saw on the forum I am thinking I don't like backslash very much, and am trying to make a case for %, so that's something to keep in mind.
Remember that this is slated to be the new way to make LIT-WORD!s and such. We don't want to go overboard with using it for arbitrary features as a "random" bit. Code will have these markings naturally, so if you start putting it on everywhere for no reason you'll get things like compose [%(if %foo = word [...])] and it's not going to be pretty. I would really urge restraint on this; we don't want to use it if we don't have to.
Like what I said the other day about compose [(1 + 2) %(1 + 2) %%(1 + 2)] = [3 %3 %%3], I am thinking me the only reason to mark something with one of these escape things in a COMPOSE is if you want the product to have one of these things in it. That's probably the best angle.
I'm definitely getting a dislike for the backslash. This is a very good feature, but that's a bad character.
 
4:51 PM
If you want to limit where composes search, we would probably be better off with compose <$> [... [<$> ...] ... ] letting you mark not just GROUP!s, but also at a top level any BLOCK!s you want to participate in the compose. That would also perform better (it wouldn't need to search only to find places it didn't need to compose).
But I don't really like that. Anyway, let's keep thinking about creative solutions, but I will discourage the system using escaping in this way as a "signal" that has to do with anything but what it is, e.g. /DEEP-ness
 
 
2 hours later…
6:39 PM
@HostileFork Sorry to disagree, I don't like % for escaping (neither as FILE! signal)
 
@giuliolunati Disagreement is okay. But it's important to work through real examples. I know some people have been persuaded about things they initially did not like, such as @rgchris warming up to _ as BLANK!.
We can try various things and see what comes of it. Maybe there's more than one kind of escaping, I dunno.
But we do have to be careful not to lose what makes Rebol code different and more readable than most languages. We should be very skeptical if what I've put in the tests file becomes "what the code usually looks like". That's just supposed to mechanically test the feature. It's not a treatise on how Rebol scripts should look in the future.
Who knows, I may cave and fall in with the status-quo(te) and go back to apostrophe. This is about trying things out.
On a more general note, I'm definitely thinking more than I used to about "choose your own syntax, but use the evaluator". If Rebol is truly the personalizable invent-it-and-bend-it-yourself language, why should that stop at just being able to redefine any word? Why not pick your own comments, escapes, etc?
It's telling that JavaScript doesn't even use the real JavaScript parser to load or save JSON. So maybe Rebol's common denominator+bootstrap format vs. what you use yourself can be thought of as two different things.
Red was demonstrating some extensibility hooks in their LOAD some time ago for custom syntax, IIRC
 
7:16 PM
dir: '/usr/local/bin ;-- Who knows, maybe it's okay.  Maybe semicolons are ok.  :-/
dir: %/usr/local/bin // but I probably like this better
dir: %/usr/local/bin -- and maybe this even more
(Yes, I know paths don't allow nothing at the beginning at the moment, and am mulling over that.)
 
@HostileFork Totally agree! If the user will have that power, I immediately will use it to redefine the escape ^ char in TEXTs
 
7:59 PM
@HostileFork I am a member of the apostrophe fan club—I think its inherent discretion is part of what makes Rebol a more elegant language. While the percent-for-files is a contrived convention, it does mesh somewhat with the proceeding percent-encoding convention which, while also not of the filepath domain, is consistent with a file's role as a fragment of a url.
2
 
@rgchris I'm still grousing over if word = 'isn't [...] and double-escaped-string: lit ''"string".
Though you could say escaped strings always use curly braces. lit ''{string}.
Some things you don't know until you try, I guess. Anyway, the thing that doesn't take ten seconds to change is stuff like implementing the arbitrary levels of escaping. Anyone could change the character.
 
@HostileFork I wonder if this is a good move in terms of expectations. LOAD %some.json might give you a structure somewhat familiar to Rebol (although...), opinions differ over what LOAD %some.xml might be, and how SAVE do-something LOAD %some.xml might behave. I'm leaning toward keeping different data structures to different domains. XML/LOAD %some.xml
@HostileFork There are a few legal word characters that can't be used as a word's leading character.
 
An area of exploration I still want to see is integration of the scanner with PARSE.
 
@HostileFork You mean have LOAD in user mode?
 
>> parse "&%$[a block]$%&" ["&%$" set b block! "$%&"]
>> b
== [a block]
Seeing more of LOAD in user mode, perhaps phrased as a set of PARSE rules that could be adjusted by those who wanted to adjust it (including what sort of binding structures it might build as it was loading)... would be very interesting.
 
8:43 PM
@rgchris One thing to remember is that I do want reasonable Rebol2/Red compatibility, by hook or by crook. There'll be enough extensibility mechanisms to implement those conventions at least, maybe more. It just may be that some extended features only exist under the new conventions.
But regardless, things like specialization/adapting/chaining...any of that stuff, should work in the old as well as the new.
But when it comes to things like "getting the equivalent of a LIT-GROUP!"...a new frontier of feature--it may not be done with apostrophes, and those who want it might have to live with the new conventions. Or maybe whatever workaround lets you do apostrophes to lit-words will apply to that workaround. I dunno. Haven't seen down that road far enough.
 

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