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1:09 AM
The perfect financial crisis could be coming ... of course this depends on a lot of variables
The onset could be as early as the end of this year ... it could be avoid, but I don't have much faith in human intelligence, so ...
 
1:28 AM
The Wt project is remarkably well maintained. It was originally modeled after Qt, which means a lot of raw "new" usage. Recently they started supporting std::unique_ptr, so no more raw calls to new
And yet, this still looks wrong to me.
Since make_unique is kinda low-level, and it shouldn't clutter the user code. Why not addWidget(Wt::WText::Create("...")), or even addWidget(Wt::WText("..."))?
 
I think that's the inheritance based polymorphism vs value type based polymorphism conflict, which I'm not sure there's a nice and idiomatic way of solving
If you have a class hierarchy, you're somehow forced to use smart pointers or deal with slicing
 
I don't think it's wrong to use inheritance-based polymorphism. I'm mostly complaining about the verbosity.
And the use of low-level primitives in the user code.
Also raw new was always the lesser evil. The real culprit is raw delete.
 
Should these classes provide a factory functions that return std::unique_ptrs? Or maybe the smart pointer shouldn't be exposed altogether?
 
Factory functions are a good start.
Using std::unique_ptr as the return type isn't too bad since it's always possible to detach the pointer.
 
1:49 AM
std::make_unique<Wt::WText>("...") has the minor advantage over Wt::WText::Create("...") that people already know what it means
not too big of a problem, since people new to a library will have to get familiar with it anyway, but still, worth considering
 
It could even be shortened to something like this:
WText::Create(root(), "You name, please?");
nameEdit_ = WLineEdit::Create(root());
WPushButton* button = WPushButton::Create(root(), "Greet me")
button->clicked().connect(greet);
But I suppose in the end it won't affect productivity too much.
But still I dislike it when most of the ascii is dedicated to implementation technical stuff, rather than problem domain.
 
Looking at that code, I find root()-> more confusing
 
Yeah.
Seems like it shouldn't be needed.
 
buttons don't belong to hello world applications IMO
 
It's a member function, which I assume is returning a pointer... because that's the convention? also not sure why addWidget isn't directly a member of Wt::WApplication
 
1:59 AM
Indeed.
 
2:54 AM
@Mikhail Sorry to prod again, but do you have a reference for "Bjarne's frustration with destroying sockets"?
 
3:09 AM
@Maxpm From his interview on CppCast (episode 100). Mentions that connections which failed to close need to be moved to a special pool instead of simply handled by the destructor (or something similiar).
 
Thanks.
 
 
1 hour later…
4:13 AM
what if ... we form a startup and work on cloud machine learning?
like ... machines can share the learning results
but it's optimized in some sort of ways
 
@TelKitty At least to me, that sounds a lot too hand-wavy to form the basis of a meaningful startup.
 
@JerryCoffin did you decide on a future employment?
 
I have given this a 5 minutes thought - it will be a network of servers, they will be the hubs sharing and optimizing the results, individual machines are considered nodes, they are only connected to small local network and 1 to 2 hubs/servers. Results will be synced back to nodes periodically based on priority of findings.
toy autonomous car was trained and error returned indicated a possible lacking of data ~_~
 
4:34 AM
@TelKitty, I'm skeptical that the distribution would be worthwhile. frankmcsherry.org/graph/scalability/cost/2015/01/15/COST.html
 
would be pretty worthwhile for any new nodes plugged into the system
 
No, that's what I'm saying. It's easier and more effective to make a machine powerful enough to do the task on its own than it is to turn it into a "node."
 
for simple tasks, sure
but machine learning needs data
 
Did you read those two links?
The threshold for "simple tasks" is much, much higher than people expect.
i.e. people think they need distributed systems when they really don't.
 
@Maxpm I scan through the first link, and failed to see connection. I specifically indicated the difference between nodes(individual machines) and hubs(servers)
nodes does all its calculation and learning process
hub is for optimizing, and node only syncs at periodic times which should not slow the processing down too much
It's like you do all your learning by yourself - how to walk, how to ran and when to eat. You might never come across a tiger, but some other node did, so hub would gather that information and sync it on to you: there is a thing called tiger and it's dangerous.
 
5:18 AM
Afaik, we are nowhere near 'intelligence'..so what is it you actually want the system to do?
It could have every piece of data about every tiger to ever have lived, but it still won't know what a tiger is.
 
a lot of things, self driving cars for example ... currently pattern recognition can't tell a bicycle from a person pushing a bicycle
 
Or a bicycle image on a T-shirt ;)
 
@ABuckau yes, but giving a learning network, if one node finds out what the tiger is, the whole system knows
a lot like social animal learning behaviour
 
Should I repeat myself? Knowing what a tiger looks like isn't the same as understanding what a tiger is.
Unless you're just talking about image recognition.? Then sure, more cpu = more better. But that won't get you much.
 
5:27 AM
<blind worm: smarter than any current AI>
 
and the most environmental friendly heater is your pet, if you have a cat, dog, chicken or something similar
 
@TelKitty The problem is that it's not possible (AFAIK) to cleanly separate the training like that. Artificial neural nets are trained as black boxes. You can't have half working on recognizing tigers and half working on recognizing food and join them up at the end to add their knowledge together.
I don't know about other forms of machine learning but I doubt they're much different.
 
6:00 AM
@Maxpm Surely it has to be improved upon? It can't tell the difference between a bike and a person pushing a bike and it can't tell a forked road. To be honest, said network would depend on a working pattern recognition system. Currently there isn't one.
 
I'm slightly out of my depth here, but I believe part of the hype of deep learning was that distinct portions of the net would form internally to handle separate "features." I don't think this has been found to be the case.
If you could figure out how to recognize very independent parts of a net and train them very independently, then yes, distribution would be advantageous.
 
it's only an abstract idea, pretty there are plenty of holes
 
There is somewhat of an irony that what we consider intelligence is actually steps to reduce computational power. Deep learning, and especially the image recognition or super resolution (ala YOLO) rely on discovering the hidden sparsity of the data, which then reduces the computational complexity of the problem. The underlying assumption being that if you want to identify street signs, the best basis to operate in is one made of street signs.
In the case of yolo net and other super resolution methods its the realization that natural images are made of a basis of edges or other textures, but that these images are informationally sparse
I'm hoping to start working on deep learning stuff where we combine sparse + dense reconstitution techniques. For example, the low frequencies are sparse, but the high frequencies aren't.
Gonna get me another nature paper
 
 
1 hour later…
7:28 AM
also that time of the month
also interpret information in a 3D world through 2D images are inherently lossy
 
nwp
That's why you need 2 images slightly shifted to get depth perception.
 
at the same time t
 
Hi
 
7:43 AM
ai
 
7:54 AM
ugg, its that time of the night when the sun comes up and the francophone people come out
I've been working on an algorithm to align really bad low SNR images, kinda like those made with Cryo EM
 
8:07 AM
@Mikhail I'm sorry for that
baguette
 
@Mikhail Sun comes up on the Ireland you mean?
Sun is always coming up somewhere, unless cloudy or raining
 
also fuck the Blackman window and its magic constants
 
nwp
So racist.
 
@TelKitty did you shoot any firearms while you were in the US?
 
didn't see any gun shop, otherwise would consider buying
 
8:22 AM
Slow your roll. I think you have to be a citizen.
There are places you can rent guns, just to shoot/test them, but I don't know how common they are.
 
damn, I did do less road rage while there ... coz afraid someone would pull out a gun and kill me
 
An armed society is a polite one : D
 
nwp
"Service guarantees Citizenship"!
 
^ French Foreign Legion
 
I did more speeding though, coz less cops on roads
 
8:27 AM
Yeah but those are in miles so you went less
 
Do you have unmarked police cars in Aus.?
 
Australia cops work for state revenue. They would ambush you at your least convenient times (public holiday for example)
 
Same here. But I don't speed / give them any other reason to molest me.
 
they also hide in the bushes so they can catch people like a lion would on an unsuspecting antelope.
Sometimes I like to test the top speed of cars, for the sake of it :x But I don't do it often.
Because it's highly dangerous ...
I don't want to die anytime soon.
 
auto c = a&& && b;

template<class... T>
auto sum(T&&... args) {
 return (args&& && ... && T{});
}
how could someone even think that propsing a postfix operator&& is anywhere close from a good idea u_u
 
Ven
8:43 AM
what's that?
 
The fuck is that?
 
A whole new world of retardation and terrible ideas :D
Basically merge move & forward into a single operation (which already sounds bad enough by itself) and propose random symbols for postfix operators to do the job
Pros: it's supposed to be clear
 
nwp
They should just add any unicode character without previous meaning as an operator. Precedence is the index in the unicode table so that code breaks whenever it changes. operator 🚶(std::string_view); for example. With proper chaining you can write totally natural code like 🦆🦆🚶"privacy"; which naturally evaluates to this.
 
^ This but with a 🍆 emoji instead
 
don't forget that Stroustrup already proposed unicode operators a long time ago x)
 
Ven
8:48 AM
@Morwenn you didn't link the actual proposal, only the forum
 
nwp
🍆value obviously does placement delete.
 
@Ven this isn't a formal proposal
 
Ven
@Morwenn I know, I mean you linked to the forum not to a specific topic.
@Morwenn ha-ah :P
 
@Ven when I click the link it sends to the topic
 
Ven
@Morwenn it does now. maybe I had to go through the mailing list first to make it work ô.O.
 
8:51 AM
I don't know, Google Groups tends to be super bad sometimes
 
9:07 AM
Yo, so, there are 27 unique terms in a 2nd order polynomial fit on $R^3$, right?
wait a minute that isn't right
Actually it depends if you include terms like (x^2)*(y^2)*(y^2) as second order
 
Ven
10:15 AM
@YvetteColomb aw, that's beautiful
 
user3956566
ikr :)
 
I always dig the hen pics :p
 
Ven
@Morwenn tu aimes les coqs c'est normal
 
owi la vérification formelle OwO
2
 
10:58 AM
@nwp I'm going to wait until someone does operator Zero Width Joiner
 
11:12 AM
is there a good place to ask total noob c++ questions?
 
Quora
 
@Petah reddit
or maybe 4chan
 
or maybe i should just stay here for the trololols
 
yes, this room is the best for trollololo
on the whole internet
 

C++ Questions and Answers

Solve problems and approach solutions. Just ask and lurkers wi...
 
11:17 AM
@YvetteColomb ^ you can tell when the 'be nice' policy has begun in the lounge
 
user3956566
@TelKitty :[
 
right before most of top talent programmer/software developer permanently left stackoverflow
 
user3956566
who?
 
@YvetteColomb look at a random page on transcript
I am not saying we should not be nice to newbies
 
11:32 AM
well, it was a bit of a low move telling me to go to 4chan just for asking if this was the right place to ask noob questions....
 
you asked 'is there a good place' not 'is this a good place'
 
A+ welcoming response again
 
you are not a newbie, you don't need welcoming >_<
 
nwp
People were already nice by suggesting semi-helpful sites. Usually total noob questions are for the 🦆,
 
@YvetteColomb If you look transcript for a week, and look at all the people who were regulars but no longer here and their reps, you understand why. While as Stackoverflow should be made a welcoming place for people who are new to programming. It should also give certain freedom to those who are helping out - newbies are likely to stay when stricter conditions are posed because they need the answers.
But those who hang around to mostly helping answer others questions have less incentive and more likely to walk out when stricter conditions are posed.
 
user3956566
11:54 AM
@TelKitty the problem is, it wants to be a catch all and really, is it the place for total newbies? It does get frustrating for experienced programming, as it becomes like a teaching site
 
blame it on the structure of the site - newbie questions usually get closed and it's not because people here are rude
 
just be a self-aware talented newbie
 
being rude is if someone keeps telling you not to do certain things and you keeps on doing it, being rude is not cracking a few jokes that like 0.1% of the population would get offended - no matter what you do, some people will be offended
also I found this quora question and I agree on top answer: What is more important: freedom or love?
some people, no matter how much they love something, if it hinders their freedom, they will leave
 
nwp
12:14 PM
How to keep a telkitty busy for a few hours:
But is it the love for freedom that makes them leave?
Or the freedom to love that makes them stay?
Is it even freedom when you are forced to chose?
 
it's the hate of not be able to have freedom that's killing me inside
 
@YvetteColomb trying to be all things to all people is a great way to fail at all of the things.
 
> Freedom in the land and hope for all
 
user3956566
12:41 PM
@Mgetz agree
 
2:20 PM
Some day you gotta teach me how to get so many upvotes with boost answers :) — sehe 31 secs ago
Only a tiny bit jealous here.
 
I, on the other hand, keep spending energy on protracted nay-saying sessions like this:
 
Ven
@sehe it's okay, I downvoted him
 
Thanks for the answer, Yes i can but the problem is that with the solution you proposed i need to have a wrapper class/function that have both type of pointer and do a if/else according to segment type i need to use - this was my question(Is there a way to do it without creating both type) — davidbobo 7 hours ago
Or this
Actually beast has async_read_some (not just through asio)... — The Quantum Physicist 18 hours ago
If that doesn't happen, I'll just have a very nice interaction with a single user that gives one vote and goes on their merry way, and that'll be it.
Thanks. This isn't what I was looking for but it was what I needed. Essentially, there's nothing special about post, and by using the types and facilities that asio has we can make an interface as generic (supporting multiple ways of calling as you've demonstrated) or narrow as we like. — Chris Hunt May 7 at 1:26
 
That's what you get for trying to help random people v0v
 
2:25 PM
Well. Not random enough
I'm selective, and most people are selective in the opposite sense (boost? skip!)
 
I haven't answered a question in a more than a year now ._.
 
@Ven lies. Also, are you alright? I'm starting to agree with the kitty and that is something that rarely happens
@Morwenn I bet you have higher average votes still :)
 
Ven
@sehe I actually upvoted him, I admit.
@sehe does that make me naughty because I lied to you, or nice because I gave fake internet points to someone?
 
@sehe Probably, old answers still get votes and I don't answer anymore, so my average number of votes per answer anturally increases
 
3:00 PM
@Ven I don't care either way. I just notice a distinct uptake in your trolling in the last two days of me happening upon the lounge
 
Ven
I see
 
It could be a singularity :)
In fact, I think so.
 
Ven
@sehe It might be a timewarp around uncon, since it's in 2 days, the lounge has been channeled near me
 
Last time I met Ven I ended up drunk, was he a troll? I don't remember
 
@Ven That makes sense (unless you're not joining)
 
Ven
3:02 PM
@sehe They're coming to Paris, it'd be quite rude not to join them :P.
@Morwenn Drunk? Allons, t'abuses.
@Morwenn also no, you were much more troll-ish than me
 
@Ven It takes some time to kick in, but by the time I was back in my cousin's house, I was clearly drunk to some degree
@Ven I never troll :x
Ok, maybe I do x)
 
Ven
Oh que si...
 
Not sure what I might have specifically said which would amount to trolling back then, but I do troll on a semi-daily basis ^^'
 
Ven
I do. and i do remember the looks of people 'round.
 
I don't remember anything like that o.o
Except if it was about smoking, but then it wasn't only trolling ^^'
 
Ven
3:10 PM
no, more like dick jokes. I know you weren't trolling wrt that
 
oh, I most likely did some but I don't remember xD
 
4:01 PM
A dick is no joke
 
4:15 PM
 
@Ven Ah, so the Most Majestuous Capybara a.k.a. Adebayo Adelabu a.k.a. Aldwin Cheung a.k.a. Anastasiya a.k.a. Andreas a.k.a. Angry Lettuce a.k.a. Arkadiusz Koćma a.k.a. Baguette Garlique a.k.a. Cheuk Kin Sing a.k.a. Cicada a.k.a. DeadCicada a.k.a. Diego Pereira a.k.a. Dmitri Budnikov a.k.a. [...]
[...] Edgy Alpaca a.k.a. Enthusiastic Chair a.k.a. Gregor McGregor a.k.a. Gundolf a.k.a. Hubert Applebaum a.k.a. Jon Skeet a.k.a. Kretab a.k.a. Mai Longdong a.k.a. Momotapa Limpopo a.k.a. Nolwenn Le Guen a.k.a. Park Young-Bae a.k.a. Patrick M'Bongo a.k.a. Purrfection a.k.a. Purrformance a.k.a. Raging Scallion a.k.a. Rakkun a.k.a. Robert Troipartrois a.k.a. [...]
[...] Rudianto Prasetya a.k.a. Soohjun a.k.a. Spongy Fruitcake a.k.a. Veronika Prüssels a.k.a. William Andrew a.k.a. buttiful buttefly a.k.a. dolan a.k.a. presius litel snoflek a.k.a. user703016 a.k.a. user7236293 a.k.a. 한국 매미 will also be there, I presume?
@JerryCoffin Oh I was going to change the topic, but you already remembered to
 
5:00 PM
@sehe Feel free to change it again, if you like.
 
@thecoshman dang, 50kW is quite a lot for a starter bike
 
6:02 PM
@Borgleader I think the guy has more than 2 problems. :)
 
@YvetteColomb Maybe SO can be split like Mathoverflow vs math.se?
 
@sehe I had a feeling the compiler would optimize the entire loop out
 
Me too. It does look like the matches call is gone, though. And the matching itself seem inlined. Not bad at all, IYAM
Anyways, it was fun prying the disassembly out from the JVM. I never did that before. 10 minutes well-spent
That includes installing the Oracle JVM, building and installing fcml (whatever it is), building the "sample" plugin libhsdis.so and fixing the devenv by preloading and symlinking those pesky binaries.
 
6:21 PM
I tried to use quick-bench to get some numbers but it doesnt give timings, it gives a ration with "noop"
Made me remember why its only useful to use it when comparing 2 things
(which in this case I cant because the other thing is the JVM)
 
I must say, I felt pretty experienced when I aced through all that. I recall times when any single step in that process could have cost me a day.
 
user3956566
6:51 PM
@crasic it's been suggested over and over and they want
 
7:09 PM
0
A: regex performance java vs c++11

seheMade the C++ sample portable: #include <iostream> #include <chrono> #include <regex> using C = std::chrono::high_resolution_clock; using namespace std::chrono_literals; int main() { auto start = C::now(); std::regex pat("^[\\w._]+@\\w+\\.[a-zA-Z]+$"); for (long i = 0; i < 1000000; ...

 
7:28 PM
@sehe you haven't seen mine
 
@sehe This has been a sore spot on C++ implementations, boost::regex outperforms MSVCs stdlib and I believe libc++
Java IIRC can actually take advantage of the fact it's JITed, I know C# does
 
Good thing the standard libraries have started to fuzz their std::regex to catch more bugs
 
Yeah it looks like an overhaul of std::regex in MSVC is in the works but STL hasn't confirmed it yet
 
7:45 PM
@Morwenn Yeah. Not sure what we can do about that
 
@sehe Preferably nothing I guess :p
 
Ok for me!
 
@sehe There is apparently a std::regex::optimize flag en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/regex/syntax_option_type
 
It's almost as if I get comment plinks :) I'll try, but right now debugging someone else's Boost Beast code
 
not that it makes a difference on your wandbox
 
8:23 PM
Aaaaand slowly but surely my reluctant answer grows into another benchmark orgy
 
as long as it's an orgy of some description, right?
 
Ven
@sehe he's not
but I met him ~3 months ago
 
8:46 PM
@sehe Impressive answer, now all you need to do is compare across compilers :-)
 
I did in the comments. Not going to bother with the rest because somehow my boost setup is broken w.r.t. the installed clang version.
Also, it's a meh answer. Just showing some experience in proper benching
 
9:08 PM
@rustyx Why did you remove the comments?
 
9:21 PM
Have you seen this funny guy; 2560x1440 on a 14 inch screen! askubuntu.com/q/1038819/19559 and only two thirds of the height is usable This is the same guy that held on to the last 4:3 screen laptop for over 10 years.
On an unrelated note, how does one avoid a vote manipulation ban?
 
10:01 PM
By voting normally
 
10:56 PM
We should award badges for bans
2
 
@sehe nice!
 
11:54 PM
-78
Q: Anti-Badges for trolling/ridiculous behavior

anonI think we should have anti-badges. They could be implemented as a sort-of punishment for doing stupid things such as; Get -10 score and no upvotes on any post on the meta site for this site. -- Idiocracy Badge, lose 20 rep. Have 2 questions closed as "Not a real question." -- Blasphemy badge,...

 

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