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5:59 AM
"cleanup old terse answers that either have hidden value or indicate awful questions"
(sorry for delay, had a really tough day at work)
...if the cut off score for this cleanup is set at 10, more precise title could be like "cleanup 500 old terse answers that either have hidden value or indicate awful questions" (last time I checked script returned 503 such answers)
 
user4639281
Too bad you couldn't feed a list into the Magic review queue
 
user4639281
I mean... I could, but that would be work
 
@TinyGiant I think I saw something like that in some old cleanups? I mean some magicians made a dedicated page that somehow displayed stuff to handle. Could you please show an example?
not necessarily with that link-only script, anything would do
 
user4639281
It's a script I wrote to make a custom queue to filter questions for a specific tag based on close votes and delete votes
 
user4639281
hold on
 
user4639281
I'll get a screenshot
 
@TinyGiant yes that would be great. Since here is not SOCVR, onebox would be okay
 
user4639281
kk
 
user4639281
 
user4639281
 
user4639281
6:18 AM
It was basically a challenge to bypass the close vote queue originally, but evolved into something much more useful
 
user4639281
The basic framework is there to create a new "review queue" for whatever you want
 
user4639281
In this case we could just get whatever script you're using to generate a list of answer id's which we could feed into it manually instead of how this script queries stuff
 
user4639281
It basically just cuts out all of the steps in between reviewing posts that would normally occur in the wild
 
@TinyGiant you mean, in theory it can handle "review outcomes" I expect for this cleanup? 1) Edit the answer 2) close or delete question 3) flag answer and optionally downvote / comment on it (I don't expect much commenting but "this link is dead" can happen regularly, since we target old answers)
 
user4639281
Anything that you can do normally can be done with this script just as you would normally do it
 
user4639281
6:25 AM
Whether that be voting, inline editing, flagging, you name it
 
user4639281
Currently it is only for questions because I designed it (in the end) mostly for burninations, retags, and tag clean ups
 
hm. Hmmm sounds really tempting. @TinyGiant does user need something special for it to work, like specific browser / browser extension, stuff like that?
 
user4639281
@gnat Either chrome or firefox, and tampermonkey or greasemonkey
 
user3956566
If the link is dead deletion, if it is not and there is at all a viable way to add in enough content from the link, edit and add it?
 
user4639281
You also have to get your own API key
 
user4639281
 
@gnat you need a couple users that poke stuff on a 24/7 basis. SOCVR have those users, that is the trick. I'm happy to help with this when GoDaddy is nearly done
 
I see. Roughly, how long could it take you @TinyGiant to tweak it for this cleanup? I mean to pick from Shog's script with specified parameters (say cut off length 29 and cut off score 10) and handle outcomes I mentioned. As far as I can tell that's quite a bit of work but on the other hands this stuff is not urgent. We're dealing with posts older than 2014, these can wait for a little while :)
 
user4639281
@gnat It shouldn't take long, haven't looked at shog's script tho
 
user4639281
got a link?
 
user3956566
@rene yeh godaddy's time consuming, but we're on the home stretch
 
6:32 AM
@rene sounds great. Can SOCVR volunteer at least 5-10 editors and 4-5 10Kers to handle deletions of questions? That's my calculation for "Who's in..." part in above questions
 
user3956566
@gnat I'm happy to help
 
user3956566
I only have 6 delete votes per day
 
> You can find this live here: data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/527543/… - with the default parameters, it finds 1866 answers.
 
user4639281
@gnat Oh yeah, we can get a CSV from that. I can set up the script to accept a CSV file
 
@Yvette per my past experience of similar cleanup at Programmers 500 such answers translate to 100-200 delete-worthy questions, that could take about a month at 6 per day, seems doable. This stuff was mostly heavy on editing. Quoting self, "A reasonable question with bland link only answer sitting at strangely high +10 often meant that (idiot) author was too lazy to describe content worthy of +30...+50 so that it only got upvotes from readers who clicked the link..."
 
user4639281
6:36 AM
Not tonight tho, tomorrow night, next week I'm not going to be on a whole lot, so I'll try and get it done tonight
 
@TinyGiant I think if you can do it in 5-7 days that would be totally OK. It may take about that much time to settle other details of such a cleanup anyway
 
user3956566
@gnat yep that is doable.
 
user3956566
@gnat we probably have about that much time left in godaddy, what do you think @rene?
 
user4639281
Cool, I think instead of splitting this script into two, I'll just add the ability to import CSV into the script, and the ability to view answers.
 
user3956566
@TinyGiant I think so
 
user4639281
6:39 AM
How I'll do it is that if the script encounters a post for review that is an answer, it will show the question first, then the answer in question
 
user4639281
so if there happen to be two such answers on the same question, it will be shown as two separate review tasks, only showing one answer per review task
 
@Yvette given how much effort godaddy takes I would prefer to wait for it to complete before starting this cleanup. If it takes 2, 3 weeks more I'd rather wait. "this stuff is not urgent. We're dealing with posts older than 2014, these can wait for a little while :)"
 
user3956566
sure, mind you, I personally won't have more than a week's worth of close votes left for godaddy, now delete votes, that's another issue
 
user4639281
I'm going to have to add options to sort by votes and age as well at some point
 
@TinyGiant one answer per review task sounds acceptable. We'd also need an easy way to open question in a separate tab. Old tool/resource requests often make awful "nests" of 5...10... and even more link-only answers
 
user4639281
6:43 AM
I linkify the title of the question, as well as there is the "share" link on posts
 
@TinyGiant sort by age descending sounds like a good idea. Linkified title, I see - that's good enough for "easy open" part
 
user4639281
also, have to get the cv-pls script working in the magic queue again
 
@Yvette yeah, maybe a bit more but not much. Near the end attention seems to drop a bit so I take into account.
 
user3956566
@rene yeh well there's 277 left open
 
user4639281
code-quality to 13 days with 355 questions without much help from chat rooms (was trying to keep it out of chat at that time)
 
6:50 AM
We had this notion earlier of so called edit events, it was even in the april meeting IIRC. This might be an opportunity to get these going.
 
@TinyGiant regarding that CSV file, please make sure it's easy to replace / refresh. If cleanup at +10 goes smooth enough, we may wish to make next round cleanup with cut off at +5, there will be about 1K such posts left. For the sake of completeness, I don't plan going lowers score, hope these can be handled by regular means without so much friction between flaggers and moderators
 
user4639281
By all rights you guys should have the godaddy burnination complete in the next 10 days
 
user4639281
@gnat Yeah, I'll set it up so you can upload a csv file simply. The csv file can be downloaded directly from the SEDE page
 
@TinyGiant sounds good, thanks you!
 
user4639281
np
 
6:56 AM
and in particular this means we can re-upload weekly after SEDE data dump refresh, so that handled posts will go away. Really good
 
user4639281
for sure
 
user4639281
7:11 AM
Alright, I'm out for tonight. Have a good night
 
have a good night!
 
7:33 AM
@TinyGiant forgot to mention, there is another expected review outcome that looks worth adding for easy access - voting down the question. It is really important for tool/resource requests to vote them down because this generally leads to less 10K votes needed to delete a closed question. Because of high score answers we may bump into many questions that need more than default 3 delete votes, we better try to account for that
 
7:55 AM
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 18 hours ago, by bluefeet
@rene I'd advise against making them automatic.
@gnat @TinyGiant as long as down voting is an reviewer decision, not an automatic feature. See ^ for context.
 
8:08 AM
@rene that's a good and important point, absolutely it shouldn't be automatic. I expect that many of involved questions will be OK, first of all these where review outcome is to edit the answer with link content summary. ""A reasonable question with bland link only answer sitting at strangely high +10..."
 
OK
 
 
4 hours later…
12:27 PM
@gnat When godaddy is done, count me in. I also bring 30 delete votes to the table so that can help speed things up.
 
 
2 hours later…
user4639281
2:22 PM
@rene Yeah, I would never make an action automatic. That's just asking for trouble
 
user4639281
@gnat The voting buttons are built into the script
 
3:30 PM
@TinyGiant that's good to know, thanks. On a related note, I recently thought we better somehow de-emphasize flagging. Of course users always can open post in separate browser tab and flag from there but it would be nice if that would be the only way. Thing is, this stuff is known to be troublesome for flagging and I wouldn't want to tempt reviewers doing this
 
user4639281
Not my style
 
user4639281
I'm not into limiting users
 
user4639281
If users get themselves into trouble flagging incorrectly, that's their own damn fault
 
@TinyGiant if they get to that themselves via the link to the question, so be it. I only want to avoid having big appealing flag button in review interface, is that possible? It's more about UI helping do things that work (flags that get declined don't work). We want reviewers first look at the question and possibly act on it - that works, we want them second edit the answer - that works too. Anything else, they better skip or bring it to SOCVR or meta - because SOCVR/meta would work
 
3:51 PM
Hello! Could someone tell me what this exactly is about?
so should we just go and flag old answers which are not fit for our site?
 
@AshishAhujaツ no we shouldn't. People already tried that on answers we discuss and this has proven to lead to problems. We are trying to find a more efficient way to handle these than we had until now
 
user4639281
4:29 PM
@gnat That's great and wonderful, but I use this script all the time, I don't want to be unable to flag stuff there. I don't want to add another step to something that is supposed to remove steps
 
@TinyGiant okay so be it then. I plan to add a dedicated section to cleanup instructions telling folks to avoid flagging (in fact I plan to open instructions with that section) - if folks fail to follow it, let it be their fault
 
user4639281
Sounds like a plan
 
user4639281
I would not be opposed to adding a help text to the queue
 
user4639281
With something along those lines in there
 
5:18 PM
@TinyGiant wait a minute, your framework allows help text? it wasn't shown at screen shots. That's cool, I need some time to think how to leverage that. And yes, warning that this review is not about flagging would be good to have in there
 
user4639281
5:55 PM
@gnat I've got that big ol' sidebar space on the right hand side, figure out whatever you want to put in there
 
user4639281
Just make sure that it is applicable to all uses of the queue, not just this use
 
7:29 PM
@TinyGiant space to the right at this screen shot, do I understand it correctly? Text I am thinking of would look about like this: "1. This review is not for flagging. 2. First check if the question is a tool/resource request and needs to be closed or deleted. 3. If question looks reasonable, check content of the link(s) in the answer and if you can make summary, edit it into the answer. 4. If you feel there's a difficult problem, ask for advice..."
"...at SOCVR or in meta discussion of this cleanup. 5. Don't hesitate to skip"
 
user4639281
@gnat yes that is correct
 
user4639281
@gnat "This tool is not intended to be primarily for flagging"
 
user4639281
sounds better
 
user4639281
2. When dealing with answers, please check to make sure that the question is on-topic before flagging. There is no point in flagging an answer when the question could just as easily be dealt with. Otherwise, see if the answer can be improved before flagging. It is best to give the benefit of the doubt.
 
@TinyGiant this kind of shifts the focus in a way I'd want to avoid. I want reviewer first to look at the question, before even considering answer. Per my past experience it happened quite often that high voted link-answer indicated such question (which in hindsight looks natural, if the question asks for links and answerer finds perfect match, they get lots upvotes)...
And which is important from review perspective in such cases dealing with answer made little sense: the way to go was to delete question
 
user4639281
7:39 PM
That's kind of what I was intending there
 
user4639281
I'm just trying to right it in such a way that it won't be meaningless if you are using the tool to just review questions
 
user4639281
write*
 
@TinyGiant I see. Hm need to chew it, I am trying to figure if it is possible to match instructions for this cleanup to general case of question review. You see, the difficulty is, it has unusual priorities. For example, checking link contents is not what reviewers usually do and I bet it's not what they generally need to do, it's only in this cleanup it is important. I need more time to think of it
 
user4639281
We could have different sections.
 
user4639281
One for questions, one for answers
 
user4639281
7:48 PM
The question being the problem is true for all answers, not just old link-only ones
 
9:38 PM
@TinyGiant I figured the problem with guidance for this cleanup, its core part is indeed incompatible with any other review / cleanup. This is because of that part to check link content, it is twisted fully against normal way and it is only an exception made to clean up these 500 old answers, and we will drop it after it's over. Any other review, approach should be opposite, the another-castle announced that: "If you see this, flag it. Moderators, if you see it flagged, delete it"
So, no, guidance for this cleanup won't fit any other, normally things should work opposite.
 
user4639281
No, you could specify that if the answer is old and high scoring, more effort should be put into making the answer viable
 
user4639281
Technically any time a link only answer has a few upvotes and / or is accepted, you should be doing that, that isn't anything new
 

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