« first day (1978 days earlier)      last day (3194 days later) » 

15:00
is there a reason for cross-on-D?
sbi
sbi
@JonClements At the robot's! :)
cross is also something I'm bad at
I can't solve it all in my head
@AndyProwl Not really a particular reason to pick D, but what's important is that it is out of sight. You don't want to bother your eyes with pieces that are solved already.
while doing F2L you mean
Well, during the whole solve, actually.
Lookahead gets easier if you can see more unsolved pieces.
15:04
@sbi Okay... on the Robot's floor struggling to get up again then :p
So the fewer solved pieces in sight, the better.
So cross-on-B would be fine too.
But PLLs and OLLs are usually given with LL on U, so if I keep cross on D I don't ever need to rotate the cube.
I'm gonna give it a try
I'd rather discover that now than having to re-learn all the algos
Focusing on the 2x2x2 actually helped me grok a few things about avoiding rotations and doing lookaheads.
Ven
Ven
15:08
oh it's robot
Praise be.
Does anyone remember uncon date again?
I think I'm going to set aside some money to travel.
With the 2x2x2 I got 15 seconds faster off by transitioning to shorter solves, but with the skewb I improved just as much through faster fingers since I still solve it using the same single algorithm and with zero lookahead. Interesting.
Ven
Ven
no idea, I probably won't be able to make it :v
@ThePhD 18th June
Oh.
I'll be in Israel.
Assuming I'm not broke by then.
I think I'll just go home.
Not really in the mood to be productive today.
15:14
Take care
@EtiennedeMartel Who?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Welcome back. Nice to see you again.
@sbi How many days did the course last?
@Ell It's not really a browser
user1804599
> Erdogan: 'PKK behind Armenian genocide'
15:28
Cheesy bread
Ven
Ven
nom nom nom
Basically half a pizza
sbi
sbi
@JonClements Nah, I've just made a round and immediately found half a dozen people to spontaneously go to some pub tonight. The robot, however, declined.
"sharing a drink they call loneliness but it's better than drinking alone..."
The point is you'll be struggling to get up again
sbi
sbi
15:30
@JonClements Damn, I was earwormed with exactly this song this morning!!
umm... coincidence or conspiracy...!
sbi
sbi
@fredoverflow It will by 2 x 2 days C++03 for C programmers. 8 people. They're still unhappy with the price tag, but having had me two years ago, agreed to pay it. (I am mightily proud of this.)
@JonClements I looked at the clock this morning in the bathroom, and thought (in German!) "9 'clock", and, dang!, I had Piano Man in my ears, and didn't lose it all day.
lol that starboard
@sbi Now if it were a Saturday, it probably would have hit you twice as hard. Oh, and hi--it's been a while.
@JerryCoffin gosh darn it! I was just typing the same thing! :p
15:35
@TonyTheLion Might be when school starts, but I might also be able to afford not going to the first few days og class
@JonClements Great minds think alike. Small minds try to claim coincidence makes them great. :-)
> May 31 (Tu) May 31 (Tu) May 31 (Tu) May 31 (Tu)
... Yeah, I'll avoid a few days.
Just gotta make sure there are no exams.
sbi
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes I dunno what you settled for here (really, I wasn't involved in this part of hiring), but if you, having no kids and sharing a flat in Wedding, are broke after being out of work for less than a year, you are totally doing it wrong. Before you apply elsewhere, make me write a Zeugnis together with U. You should aim for 4k/month at the very least.
Guess I'm going to uncon!
sbi
sbi
@JerryCoffin Hi. Last time we were discussing your troubles, IIRC. Now it's me who's in trouble.
15:36
... Iiif it doesn't run me over 3K to get there and back.
@sbi He's a) losing his wallet on a regular basis and b) giving out money to people or something
@sbi Probably--they come up far too often.
sbi
sbi
@JerryCoffin Yours, you mean? I thought the worst of mine were behind me. sigh
@sbi Yes, mine. You seem to have (mostly) dealt with yours.
15:38
@JerryCoffin Haha... I generally go for "Great minds think alike, but fools seldom differ" :p
@orlp lol
s/pip/pip3/
sbi
sbi
@JerryCoffin I knew they were told to lower the burnrate. But nobody really expected them to do that by laying off half of the company.
So, yes, this came quite unexpected.
@JonClements I'm trying to think of a solid basis for disagreement and failing.
@sbi I have to wonder whether this is driven (at least in part) by the currently-low oil prices making alternative energy look less profitable, at least in the short term.
@VeronikaPrüssels, no, it is not. It is very low quality code. strlen called in a loop multiple times, using c-style strings in C++, don't even get me started. — SergeyA 3 hours ago
15:43
@AndyProwl lel
@VeronikaPrüssels I don't get it
click the link
He says 'don't get me started', right after he started
How can you make someone start if they already have done so themselves?
@VeronikaPrüssels someone should have his snark sensors revised
15:44
High quality irony! — sehe 9 secs ago
@JerryCoffin Just make something up involving gerbils and daffodils or something...
sbi
sbi
@JerryCoffin No, it isn't. IMNSHO it's mostly driven by the former Sales head being unable to close a single fucking contract for a whole damn year. What project we've been doing for the last year were mostly closed by the management they had driven out a year ago.
And now you have three guesses re who became the new CEO? Yeah. Indeed. Fucking right. Unbelievable, isn't it?
Ell
Ell
@CatPlusPlus sorry embedded browser or w/e it's called
well actually
It's a rendering engine
Ell
Ell
15:46
I meant webrender in particular
Servo does more than rendering
github.com/servo/webrender <-- this does rendering
@sbi I have yet too see an organization where advancement/compensation is based on past performance
The main function of Servo is to serve as a go-to "there are real life projects implemented in Rust!!!!11" reference by fanboys
Ell
Ell
but that's the interesting bit anyway
They all do more than rendering, browser engine, whatever
Still not a browser
Ell
Ell
Right.
My point wasn't that it was a browser :V
webrender just does the rendering and I think it's interesting
that was what I meant to say vOv
15:48
@sbi The ability of incompetent "sales people" to get promoted never ceases to amaze. In one of my former lives, I dealt with not just one but two who were promoted to vice president, based (as far as I can tell) entirely upon the basis of having failed utterly as sales people.
In one case, they even announced it fairly directly at a company meeting: "He was hired as a sales guy, but since then he's been trying to work on a side project of his own. He's pretty much failed completely at both, so now we're promoting him to vice president."
@sbi ow
16:29
lol the title
-1
Q: Using pointers , memory gets "invaded"

Mihail GeorgescuOk , I am trying to create a class that simulates an array and makes use of pointers. Everything works well until my pointer values are overwritten. Here's a sample of my code , this is the indexer that I use to get / set the values. As I said everything works well until at some point the addres...

sbi
sbi
@JerryCoffin My suspicion is that in a conflict between the management ("we need to invest!") and the board ("we need to reduce the burnrate!"), he is the one manager who switched sides in the right moment. So after they sacked everybody else (besides the CFO, but I suppose he is "naturally" inclined to reduce the burnrate, so he doesn't really count), that political opportunist was the only one they had left to hand the crown to. /cc @slaphappy @sehe
@sbi And he was "right" in the sense that he got the job, thought now he only gets to navigate an abandoned ship
sbi
sbi
@slaphappy Well, he gets to clear out the ship.
@milleniumbug You must construct additional objects
sbi
sbi
The problem, I think, is that the management and the board probably thinks "X people - Y people = Z people" totally forgetting that people aren't apples that can be added to and subtracted from. You get people with different backgrounds, knowledge, expertise. Over the years, this has become quite a well-balanced team. You cannot just remove a few employees and distribute their work among the rest.
But I guess management will never learn this.
16:41
> >You get people with different backgrounds, knowledge, expertise.
Same with apples
Better analogy: Helium atoms
sbi
sbi
@набиячлэвэлиь No. Believe me. When I pass apples to my kids, they couldn't care less about the apples' background etc., as long as theirs isn't spotty or sour.
some kids care about the color though
some managers care about the color, too, but that's illegal.
@sbi By background I mean the breed (a.k.a. is it spotty/sour?)
sbi
sbi
@набиячлэвэлиь We're a team of two dozen. A great team. There's no room for a rotten apple in such a team.
16:44
@sbi So which is it, two dozen or twenty?
sbi
sbi
@набиячлэвэлиь Something around this.
@sbi This, and also man-months (We usually have 10 months of budget a year for a given position - so when no one is here to call bullshit, they hire someone in january only to fire him in october because out of money. Repeat ad nauseam.)
sbi
sbi
@набиячлэвэлиь roughly, yeah
The Mythical Man-Month: Essays on Software Engineering is a book on software engineering and project management by Fred Brooks, whose central theme is that "adding manpower to a late software project makes it later". This idea is known as Brooks' law, and is presented along with the second-system effect and advocacy of prototyping. Brooks' observations are based on his experiences at IBM while managing the development of OS/360. He had added more programmers to a project falling behind schedule, a decision that he would later conclude had, counter-intuitively, delayed the project even further....
16:45
@fredoverflow whoah, never heard about this book. :)
sbi
sbi
@slaphappy What? I don't know where you live, but if we need to hire two developers, we expect something between one and three years until we've found adequately competent people that fit the team and they had time to familiarize themselves with what we do.
> book is called "The Bible of Software Engineering", because "everybody quotes it, some people read it, and a few people go by it"
lol
sbi
sbi
@fredoverflow Have you ever actually read it?
@sbi then you can deduce easily the average competency around these parts
sbi
sbi
@slaphappy Uh oh. I really, really do never ever want to end up in such a company.
Sigh. I worked two hours today (pairing with the robot). Since then, I have just been running around and chatting with people.
Since that career-wrecking mail I wrote a year ago (which utterly failed at wrecking my career) everybody feels like I am the one to tell their thoughts about what goes wrong here. That made me become someone who hears a lot about things not meant to be heard by the likes of me, so I can connect a some dots others don't know are connected. That, in turn, makes even more people want to talk to me... So the afternoon has gone by in a woosh.
16:49
@sbi Multiple times, in the subway.
It was "required reading" at University somewhere, IIRC.
The Man-Moth is real!!!!
3
sbi
sbi
@fredoverflow I ploughed through ones, and while some of it has a true ring to it, at the same time much of it was quite ancient viewpoints which have nothing to do with modern programming.
Sure, but I still liked the "atmosphere" of the book :)
It's not like it changed the way I program in any way.
sbi
sbi
It's not about programming, it's about managing programming.
Right. It hasn't changed the way I manage myself as a programmer ;)
@sbi Have you observed any "silver bullets" since 1995?
sbi
sbi
16:53
BTW, @StackedCrooked, two of my colleagues who were asking me about a compilation problem using some test code on coliru, after hearing that I have chatted with the guy who runs the site, asked me to say hi to you and tell you that you are awesome.
3
@sbi We're a very, very very big shop and some teams are managed terribly, while some others make a nice enough place to work at. So I'm okay. Those guys on the other floor though...
sbi
sbi
@fredoverflow I can't remember any from before 1995 either. Why? What's so significant about 1995?
The book was last updated in 1995.
sbi
sbi
@fredoverflow Oh! Was Brooks even still alive by then? I thought he was old in the 80s.
When the manager cares enough, he stitches budgets together so as to keep people in through the first 3 years, when you're able to make it a permanent contract.
16:55
@sbi Isn't Brooks still alive today? :)
sbi
sbi
@slaphappy Non-permanent contracts? Again, where do you live/work?
@fredoverflow He might well be. I wouldn't know. He is mythical, after all.
@sbi in Paris, remember?
sbi
sbi
@slaphappy No, I don't remember.
right, I changed my name. Sorry.
sbi
sbi
In fact, I am sure I have never chatted with someone named slaphappy.
@slaphappy Shrug. Your loss. I have no idea who you are.
Whatever, I doubt that Paris is a place where you need to take whatever you get as a C++ developer, is it?
16:58
Anyway, I work in France, where this is very common practice, and also the bane of programmers. No much we can do about that though.
@sbi What?
sbi
sbi
@slaphappy Of course you can. Refuse to sign such a contract. If you're young and do not have kids, move to where they do better.
Ven
Ven
-1
Q: Strcmp always 1 comparing two char[6]

donoromHello i have a problem with the method strcmp(char[6], char[6]) This is my code: while((!found) && (!isFirst) &&pos<=stock->nElem){ found = strcmp((stock->appliance[pos]).id, stockAdd.id); if(found){ stock->numberStock[pos] = stock->numberStock[pos]+units; break; } ...

So hard to read the docs
I'm on my way, but that's another story. Right now I have to go. Bye :)
I know that strcmp return 0 when equals in my case not return ing 0 when equals — donorom 2 mins ago
wtf is this guy on
@sbi The problem (or a problem, anyway) is that management is actively discouraged from thinking this way.
user50049
17:13
@JerryCoffin I made a career out of pulling out death marches and actually getting something to ship. One of the very first questions management would ask me after I got up to speed is who should be fired. My answer was almost always "you."
@sbi As far as I know, he's still alive (and currently in his mid 80's).
How would you guys model (in Python) a wrapper around a browser handler which manages operations on a website?
sbi
sbi
@TimPost That's a pretty damn good answer. I will suggest this at the all-hands meeting tomorrow morning.
@JerryCoffin I see.
@JerryCoffin By whom?
@TimPost I spent a few years doing consulting, sometimes on projects that they were bringing in an expensive consultant because they were an absolute mess. Strangely, I was never asked who should be fired but if they had my reply would almost always have been similar--when a project goes sideways, it's not because some guy was writing slow (buggy, etc.) code. It's because management wasn't doing what it should--usually stuff that's almost stupidly obvious at that.
sbi
sbi
@JerryCoffin Amen.
17:20
@JerryCoffin Such as?
@sbi Schools/books that purport to teach people who to do management. To an extent, I can understand the notion, but it's largely based on the idea that most companies should emulate something like a McDonalds: make people fungible, mostly by making the jobs so trivial that essentially anybody can do them.
What's management's job exactly?
sbi
sbi
@JerryCoffin Yeah. At the last all-hands meeting called fro by the new CEO, after he had babbled something about making it even in "red ocean" (read up about "blue ocean" and "red ocean" if you don't know the term), I raised my voice and reminded him that this company doesn't employ burger flippers, but highly qualified engineers, and that, if he wanted to thrive in the shark tank, it might actually be easier to start a new company than to turn this one around.
Anyway, my colleagues are calling me to wrap it up and go to the pub now.
Bye.
@Shoe Number 1: trying to be too cheap with tools. I can hardly count the number of companies I've seen who insisted on sitting an expensive programmer at a computer crappier than anything you could currently find at Best Buy, or wouldn't supply software X because they thought it cost too much.
@sbi Have fun.
Number 2: Insisting that engineers are basically at a "lower level" than managers, so good managers get "promoted" to become crappy managers, and engineering largely fills up with failures (and a few who are willing to forego promotions in favor of doing what they like/are good at).
Number 3. Allowing politics to win out over actual engineering.
@Shoe Are you asking what management should do, or what most management at most companies actually does?
To answer both those: at most companies, most managers are devoted primarily to building empires, to at least some extent. That is, most managers are more concerned with (at least what they perceive as) their own position than they are with helping the company actually succeed at much of anything.
What (IMO) management should do (at least in an engineering-oriented company that builds...stuff) is identifying opportunities--looking at what customers want, and figuring out how we can meet customers' needs better, then coordinating with the top level of the engineering "stack" to prioritize development and such. Then they need to coordinate with (for example) the marketing people to educate customers about what we're developing and how we can help them.
17:37
@sbi Have fun.
Ell
Ell
@TimPost you would say that to 'em?
Design question.
About ABI stability mostly.
@sbi This seems to make no sense at all. At least based on your description, what you were doing is about as clear an example of "blue ocean" development as you can hope to find (but based on experience, I instantly distrust almost anybody who starts quoting phrases like "red ocean"--even the minuscule minority who've apparently bothered to understand what they're talking about).
There's a bunch of Unicode character properties whose type is an enumeration. I have two options to represent these: an actual C++ enum, or just a string.
@R.MartinhoFernandes One of those cases where you almost wish you were using Java?
17:42
The enum would seem like the obvious choice. But! the types of some of those properties are not closed; new versions of Unicode routinely add new enumerators to some of those.
Ell
Ell
You could just insert additional enum values on the end right?
until you run out of underlying values :)
Ell
Ell
I suppose so
I'm guessing 2^32 should be enough for anything since there's less than 2^21 code points.
Ell
Ell
17:43
specify it as int32_t?
you can also choose to use constants rather than enumerators, if somehow you care about that.
My issue is about stability and the generation of those enums.
Adding enum values at the would keep the ABI forward-compatible (and backward-compatible too with a little care in the code).
But I can't figure out a way to generate these from the character database in that way.
user50049
@Ell Yeah, kinda have to. At a point where I'm the "hail mary" to pull something they've deeply invested in succeeding out of the red - my career was kind of like "kitchen nightmares" except software instead of food.
@R.MartinhoFernandes do the properties just appear in the table and you have to gather them first to build a set? i.e. they’re not separately listed?
Because there they just either don't explicitly list them, or they just keep them in some particular order. For the UCD it doesn't matter: the enumerator identity is the name.
Ell
Ell
17:45
I would watch that show!
then you need a human :(
@LucDanton Sometimes not separately listed, but when they're listed they're usually not ordered by age (typically alphabetical or code point for things like blocks)
@R.MartinhoFernandes 2<sup>32</sup> should be enough for anybody? :-) Seriously though, on the C++ side, I'd probably use an enum with a specified base type enum class UnicodeAttribute : uint32_t {... }; This sort of gives you the best of both worlds: relatively abstract names for at least the already-known subset of attributes, but a fairly easy ability to add new "stuff" at the end, and a relatively stable ABI specification ("This will always be a 32-bit integer").
@JerryCoffin Yes, but that means adding things at the end by hand.
I was aiming for automatic generation of the ABI from the UCD, for obvious benefits.
user50049
@Ell 98% of it was just emotionally draining scream festivals. 2% of it was actually pretty damn (as in TDWTF except live) kind of funny. It mostly sucked.
user50049
17:48
Paid well, but sucked.
Ell
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes does that mean you'd have to process each version of the database separately to work out the age?
I could make generation work that way if I did diffing but that means that to generate the 9.0 ABI I need the 8.0 ABI, or, from a barebones repo clone, ALL THE UCDs.
while you do need a human, you can still automate a lot of it. 1) create initial list, somehow 2) automation collects all properties, verifies it’s in the list 3) in case of discrepancy error out and ask human to update the list
@Ell Right :S
@LucDanton I guess this will have to be the kind of generated files that must be in under version control.
Ell
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes I guess I'd go with the approach of getting all of the UCDs :V
17:51
@R.MartinhoFernandes I guess I was thinking in terms of writing something that scans the UCD, and generates a C++ header that lists the attributes for that version. But yes, maintaining ABI stability would require starting from the oldest UCD you care about, and performing (essentially) diffs, so the old values maintain their same meaning.
Ell
Ell
but I have a question
@JerryCoffin Basically the issue is that the ABI specification is implicitly more than "this is a 32-bit integer"; it's more like "this is a 32-bit integer where 0 means this and 1 means that and 2 means (...)"
Ell
Ell
surely, you don't need all prior UCDs, only future ones right?
@Ell Well, yes, all starting from some baseline.
So I guess I could make it work.
Ell
Ell
yeah
17:53
@Ell Both. Basically start from version 1, and assign values to its attributes. Then for version 2, assure that the same attributes are assigned their original values, and new attributes are given new values. Then again for V3, and so on up as far as you go.
The only human maintenance required is updating that repo, something which I already planned to do.
Ell
Ell
Yeah that's what I thought
@JerryCoffin They get less money per hour, no? :P
Gotta go.
gf wants to feed me
@R.MartinhoFernandes Later. Don't be a stranger... :-)
17:55
instead, aim for the moon and be the strangest!
Ell
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes have fun! :)
@JerryCoffin One question I ask myself often is: if as a programmer you change job often, how do you put yourself in the mindset of actually improving the project you are working on as opposed to try to just survive until the next job comes about?
@Shoe Who get less? In a lot of cases, there's a limit on how high you can be promoted without shifting from "engineering" to "management". Not always, but often. And yes, that limit does limit the amount an engineer can be paid in a lot of cases.
@Shoe I probably can't answer that very well. My problem tends to be the opposite: when I'm reassigned from one project to another, I continue to worry about the old one long after I should just trust that the people who've taken it over will do the job well.
@sehe My co-workers aren't sold on the, ah, value of value semantics.
Because an interface is "simpler" to enforce and read in code.
@caps then a closer match to your needs is an erasing container
18:08
@caps I think that comes largely from 2 factors: 1. current languages/tools do more to support it, and 2. people are more accustomed to it.
@JerryCoffin The latter is really big. A concern here is code that will be readable to people coming from other OO languages.
I'm skeptical that focusing that way is wisest.
user1804599
CL;DR
@caps It's understandable though. Even when you recognize the superiority of a new idea/method/technique/whatever, it's frequently difficult to decide when it's justified to give up on the existing and switch to the new. When you don't really understand the superiority of the new technique, that obviously makes it even more difficult.
Hey, WG14 is planning to release a new C standard: C2x.
Did I just miss Robot? :o
user1804599
but will it have scope guards?
18:19
Impossibe: they said they would only standardize existing practice and not invent anything.
However there is a proposal to steal C++'s ability to specify the underlying type of an enum.
Also they may standardize the GNU extension ##__VA_ARGS__.
user1804599
Ugh, sugar tax on soft drinks.
user1804599
Punish adults because parents are bad at raising their children.
And maybe short float too.
user1804599
Also ugh Chrome added smooth scrolling.
@JerryCoffin It doesn't help that my grasp that "X is better" is more an intuitive thing / trusting people wiser than me thing than something that I grok 100% and could relay persuasively to my coworkers.
user1804599
18:22
And you can't fucking turn it off.
@Zoidberg What is smooth scrolling?
user1804599
It's an animation when you scroll.
user1804599
So instead of moving the page instantly it moves it gradually.
user1804599
It's annoying.
Ell
Ell
yeah that is annoying
user1804599
18:23
It doesn't work well with mouse wheels.
user1804599
It only works well with trackpads.
@Zoidberg You mean it's actually Hitler.
user1804599
It's literally Stalin.
user1804599
Oh you can disable it in chrome://flags/ :)
user1804599
yay!
Ven
Ven
18:32
literally :3
user1804599
You can literally disable Stalin.
user1804599
@Ven look at my code; my code is amazing.
user1804599
export class TodoNote extends Note {
    constructor(public base: Note, public done: boolean) {
        super();
    }

    get summary(): string {
        return this.base.summary;
    }

    render(): JSX.Element {
        return <div>
            <input type='checkbox' checked={this.done} />
            {this.base.render()}
        </div>;
    }
}
18:48
@JerryCoffin I don't know maybe it's not really a problem. Until now I've enjoyed all projects I've worked on. But they were mostly projects where I would then put my face on, so being proud of the work I had done was a big incentive.
I guess we'll find out
19:19
lol this shit is on Hot Network Questions
1
Q: Expecting a semi-colon, found '(' at line 25 column 28

Yusuf SyedFacing this error in below code, can someone help me out. public class mapdepend { public string mycity {get;set;} map<string,List<string>> mybranches= new map<string,List<string>>(); public list<selectoption> city{get;set;} public list<selectoption> branch{get;set;} public mapdepend(){ list<

@Morwenn You did.
He was here, and it was glorious \o/
That's sad.
Ven
Ven
hey @Morwenn
how's it been?
Fine. You?
Ven
Ven
well, how's been work?
19:24
> OOP creates more problems than it solves. The only things OOP has going for it, is that the pool of OO programmers is so huge that you can afford being picky and limit the damage. It's easy to build teams that manage to ship software despite OOP, rather than thanks to it
> It's actually the other way around. Most OO designs are abysmal because majority of weak programmers choose to use the predominant paradigm. If, say, FP became the flavour of the day, the new flock of ignoramuses would move to that, and everyone would start complaining that FP is terrible.
interesting
Ven
Ven
ITT people and their dogs criticising OOP
then people and their cats criticising FP
Along comes Scala to save the day with FPOOP!
@Ven Nothing much to do. They are trying to find issues I can solve without too much knowledge of the project but that still allow me to know more about how it works.
@Ven Then PROLOG saves the day :D
@fredoverflow Scala is Fuckin POOP.
> “Object-oriented programming is an exceptionally bad idea which could only have originated in California.” – Edsger Dijkstra
I didn't know Dijkstra was opposed to OOP?
Ven
Ven
19:27
appeal to authority, yay.
throw catch
haha, exceptionally
@fredoverflow Maybe he wasn't. Anyfroops, his quotes have been indexed very thoroughly so it's gonna be easier to check
to complement gdb's beautiful catch throw
I'm reasonably sure exception handling is invented after 1970. Do you have a time for that Quote fred?
> Guys, stop quoting everything I say.
> Software exception handling developed in Lisp in the 1960s and 1970s.
> "Guys, stop quoting everything I say" – Edsger Dijkstra
19:30
1 min ago, by Morwenn
> Guys, stop quoting everything I say.
It's pretty much as meta as Marx's last words.
> Go on, get out! Last words are for fools who haven't said enough!
The LISP exceptions seems to be a new invention. stackoverflow.com/questions/1898249/…
@fredoverflow You can already see this happening (javascript frameworks), and indeed the counter-movement of a Guido van Rossum keeping FP out of the door despite the trends in Python 2.x
@CaptainGiraffe How are exceptions relevant to the quote?
@Rufflewind Most of us had reached the conclusion that it was FF a few years ago; Indeed the screenshot has always been crystal clear on that :) — sehe 7 secs ago
19:34
@fredoverflow Milleniumbugs joke, or rather my interpretation of it.
Lesson of the day: 80% of the time, the question is inaccurate. Because, had the question been accurate, it wouldn't have had to be asked. — sehe 13 secs ago
Changed the percentage to 64.8% so as to make it more obvious where it originates
@fredoverflow I don't think this is entirely true. I think the...taxonomic nature of OOP attracts a lot of people who were probably never cut out to be programmers to start with. At least at first blush, I can't think of anything very similar in FP. Worse, along with attracting the wrong people, it gives the illusion that taxonomists are doing actual programming, so people who aren't really accomplishing anything can "hide in the underbrush" for years (entire careers, at this point).
> “If Java had true garbage collection, most programs would delete themselves upon execution.” — Robert Sewell
oooold. You've reached telkitty levels of quoting now :)
@fredoverflow Is Robert Sewell a coder reincarnation of Winston Churchill?
19:38
@CaptainGiraffe Why, what did Winston Churchill have to say about Garbage Collection?
@sehe Okay, how about this one?
> Bertrand Meyer tells this story about always wondering why diagrammatic modeling languages were always so popular, until one day it hit him: “Bubbles don’t crash.”
Sounds like him alright
@fredoverflow lol "bubbles don't crash" - you can't get any more wrong than that
@fredoverflow "The garbage will be collected by the men in orange vests." -Winston C.
for c# i get a random int by: Random randomVar = new Random(); //var rInt = randomVar(500, 1000); how do i do this with c++?
Ell
Ell
@Morwenn I've recently begin to see the real beauty in lisp
19:40
The dot-com bubble (also referred to as the dot-com boom, the Internet bubble, the dot-com collapse, and the information technology bubble) was a historic speculative bubble covering roughly 1997–2000 (with a climax on March 10, 2000, with the NASDAQ peaking at 5,132.52 in intraday trading before closing at 5,048.62) during which stock markets in industrialized nations saw their equity value rise rapidly from growth in the Internet sector and related fields. While the latter part was a boom and bust cycle, the Internet boom is sometimes meant to refer to the steady commercial growth of the Internet...
@AdanRamirez Do std::rand() % 500 + 500; and you will be the hero of the universe.
43
Q: Generate random numbers using c++11 random library

Smac89As the title suggests, I am trying to figure out a way of generating random numbers using the new c++11 <random> library. I have tried it with this code: std::default_random_engine generator; std::uniform_real_distribution<double> uniform_distance(1, 10.001); The problem with the code I have i...

@CaptainGiraffe NooooooooOOOOOoooOOOooooooOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooo........
don't bring up ghosts of the past
@milleniumbug =)
@CaptainGiraffe hey thanks, umm is it rnd between 500 and 1000? or 0-1000?
19:41
@AdanRamirez 500 and 998.9ish
@CaptainGiraffe okies, one last thing, that line is a function right? so in real C++ i have to do: var randInt = std::rand() % 500 + 500; ?
@AdanRamirez C++ uses auto instead of var, by the way.
@AdanRamirez Yep. As for freds comment just #define var auto
auto randInt = std::rand() % 500 + 500;
'randInt' is not a type ???
**'randInt' does not name a type
Ell
Ell
19:45
what compiler
@AdanRamirez For the record int randInt = std::rand() % 500 + 500; is a reasonable and fairly quick way to create a somewhat biased random number.
Does it work if you say int instead of auto?
Ell
Ell
pass -std=c++11
-std=c++11
Ell
Ell
@milleniumbug beat you ;)
@Ell I'm lagging so hard.
int randInt = std::rand() % 500 + 500;
'rand' is not a member of std
im a c# guy btw, just needed this line for my arduino sketch
#include <stdlib.h>
19:47
So I talked / listened to D. E. Knuth yesterday. I have on good authority that P = NP and that we should all code in CWeb.
@fredoverflow edit that to cstdlib lest you get flagged as offensive.
@CaptainGiraffe Does that mean PGP is no longer considered safe?
@CaptainGiraffe If OP asks for rand, I'm gonna give him C header.
@fredoverflow No, quite the opposite. I got the impression he considered P = NP in the same vein as the Banach-Tarski paradox.
@Ell ty, you got it, however thanks for the others for the help too
@AdanRamirez inb4 all your numbers are the same when you restart the program
int randInt = random(500, 1000); , i guess arduino library a little different than std library
Ell
Ell
19:49
@AdanRamirez before you go
to find that I googled "arduino random"
you're gonna need to get better at googling if you want to succeed in life
r u a wizard
Ell
Ell
;)
i hate googling because it takes me to MSDN and i cant understand 1 word from there
i learn from stackoverflow or the nice educated people like u guys
@AdanRamirez Arduino (whatever that is) has its own random function? Nice! At least it can't be worse than rand...
@fredoverflow Built for speed {xkcd: return 5; random dice roll}
19:51
yup you can't get much more terrible than rand in terms of randomness and usefulness
@AdanRamirez MSDN has relatively good documentation. Ive used it numerous times in the past.
@milleniumbug
why?
@AdanRamirez You can exclude msdn from your google search, simply google for c++ random -site:msdn.com
Ell
Ell
@AdanRamirez you will not continue to learn this way
Ell
Ell
19:53
next time you come here, nobody will help you bcos we have labelled you as bad at googling :P
It's a lesson you need to learn
'nobody will help'
Ell
Ell
> i hate googling because it means i have to do the work
'because we labeleed you' LOL
Ell
Ell
you just got lucky this time :P
It was funny when our guru from the TAOCP was asked how he would fare in a programming contest like the topcoder.com ones. He insisted that the mortals should not bother if he ever entered. His only problem was that they wouldn't accept submissions using literate programming.
19:54
@AdanRamirez many reasons: a.) only so many little possible seeds b.) it can return values from 0 to RAND_MAX, which isn't much c.) it can be as terrible as it can get (in fact, I'm pretty sure return 4; is a standard compliant implementation) d.) uses global state e.) non-reproducible across architectures and compilers f.) if you want anything more (uniform distributions, or heck, non-uniform ones) you need to invent your own mechanisms over it, which WILL be buggy.
@CaptainGiraffe Literate programming is too much hassle, I prefer illiterate programming.
@milleniumbug interesting, how do the pros randomize then?
nvm you just said it, they buid their own
15 mins ago, by fredoverflow
43
Q: Generate random numbers using c++11 random library

Smac89As the title suggests, I am trying to figure out a way of generating random numbers using the new c++11 <random> library. I have tried it with this code: std::default_random_engine generator; std::uniform_real_distribution<double> uniform_distance(1, 10.001); The problem with the code I have i...

@AdanRamirez C++11 <random> is more useful, but I'm not sure it's available on your Arduino
I like it very much, but it too, has some rough edges: seeding it correctly is hard, and std::random_device can be implemented as a deterministic device (what the fuck??)
Yeah, the Don also uses emacs instead of vim so he kinda lost all his cred there. tex is still cool though.
19:58
still it's a 100% (actually 10000% or more I think) improvement over rand

« first day (1978 days earlier)      last day (3194 days later) »