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11:00 AM
So is oO agar.io's logo?
 
@Puppy really? dude, use integrated
 
@Columbo Remove Visual Studio :D
 
@Columbo I never had a mac, but windows apps install tons of shit along with a 2 mb executable
kinda 120 MB runtime packages, multimedia stuff, etc.. and 2 mb app
 
HOLY SHIT
 
do you use qt? Cool. Other megabytes for the dlls
 
11:06 AM
Just got rid of 150GB in two minutes
 
deltree /y c:\windows\system32
 
@MarcoA. What does that do? Well, there's only one way to find out!
man deltree
 
Ell
@Columbo use spacesniffer or something
 
lol it shouldn't work anymore, I used to crap everything around in the old good days
 
Ell
to see where all the shit is
 
11:07 AM
@Ell That's what I was looking for! Thanks
 
Ell
No probs :)
 
Wow, that program is awesome.
Apparently Ubisoft games take a third of the storage I use
Is it a good idea to delete pagefile.sys?
I mean, this is hardly the actual storage used for paging?
 
Xeo
just set the pagefile to 0
:P
@Columbo actually...
 
You almost got me there, Schlawiner!
 
Xeo
I meant the paging size
You can configure that somewhere
Control Panel -> Advanced System Settings -> Performance -> Advanced Tab
I hope I translated that correctly
 
11:12 AM
@Xeo But why is the page file so large if my memory usage is 4.3/8GB?
@Xeo My system is in Deutsch :P
 
Xeo
hah, right
@Columbo Because the pagefile isn't limited to your ram size?
 
@Xeo Well, wouldn't the OS try to put stuff into the quick RAM first?
 
Xeo
It could page out hundreds of gigs if it wanted to, if you had programs running that used that much.
@Columbo Pagefile is swap-space.
 
Ideally it puts all sorts of cachey stuff there.
 
@Xeo Well, I do have a 20GB swapspace on linux
For some reason
On /dev/sda7
Maybe that's waste :D
 
11:14 AM
That's disposable and often counts as "free".
 
Ahh, alright.
I just wanted to install Windows 10 preview, so I figured I would give it 50GiB
 
So your pagefile gets used before you see a report of full RAM
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes bad_alloc gets real without pagefiles :o
 
You don't want to see 8/8 used RAM. It probably will mean thrashing.
 
Windows can't deal with disabled swap too well
 
11:16 AM
@thecoshman Don't have an integrated option, I could only do that by literally pulling out the card
 
And you didn't because
 
because it still kiiinda works ;p
 
Ell
you could try being adventurous:
10
A: Can Windows and Ubuntu share a single swap partition?

izxIt's possible, but probably only as an experiment: Note: This is a what-if answer and is not recommended, especially if you are using hibernate from Ubuntu! In theory, yes, Windows should be able to use your swap partition for its page (swap) file with some clever scripting on the Linux si...

 
and I need to install updates and stuff which you can't do without a gpu
 
Integrated GPU is also a GPU
 
11:18 AM
@Puppy Can't you just buy a $20 graphics card and get on with your digital life?
 
my CPU and mobo are too old to have a useful integrated gpu
 
I click on "Deinstall Assassin's Creed", Ubisoft starts updates first of all
 
@fredoverflow I already bought a much better graphics card. I just have to survive until it arrives.
 
@Puppy What CPU is that?
 
i7 930
 
11:19 AM
@Puppy No local dealers in the neighbourhood?
 
Ell
@Puppy what is wrong with your gpu now?
 
> Launch Date Q1'10
wow
 
@Puppy that means it doesn't and must go.
 
Ell
Surely it isn't a coincidence that both your CPU and GPU are fucked
 
Well, I used to have a 2006 CPU well into 2013 or something, so...
 
11:20 AM
@Ell dead (mostly)
@Ell The CPU has been a bit fucked since I bought it, but it's not noticably more fucked now.
 
user1804599
this RPG
 
user1804599
user image
7
 
Except for the boiling part? :v
 
@CatPlusPlus Been like that since I got it
 
It wouldn't last that long if it idled at 100 the whole time
Sensor is probably damaged
 
11:30 AM
Touch it, if you get burnt, it's hot :D
 
@rightfold nice
 
@fredoverflow Puppy gets his drugs online.
 
come on stupid windows update just give me the windows 10 reserve thing
 
where was this posted, I wanna star it.
2
but I don't remember from where I clicked on it.
@Puppy not bad
 
ah time to re-apply my GPU settings
 
Xeo
11:38 AM
@sehe Fuck Boost.PropertyTree ;_;
 
@Puppy lol, puppy gets starring role in vid:)
@Puppy Goodbye..
 
@Puppy TIL about Electric Six.
 
@MartinJames -500mhz on core and memory clocks, and fan speed set to maximum all the time.
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked it was posted anonymously by sehe.
 
anonymously?
 
11:48 AM
lol
 
you mean he posted from a different account?
 
@StackedCrooked reference to the joke?
 
oh
lol
I'm stupid.
 
@StackedCrooked You need moar coffee.
 
Probably. Just got up.
As a kid I would always get up very early. I could never do that now.
 
Xeo
11:50 AM
I woke up at 7am today
and went to sleep at 2am...
 
Anyway, I'm off to make myself ill. With a bit of luck, I won't lose too much money at the card game. BFN.
 
I never got up early if I could help it
 
@Xeo nice.
I lose much time on sleep.
 
Xeo
I kinda woke up and wasn't sleepy
Dunno
Yesterday I went to sleep at 4am and woke up at 12
 
@MartinJames are you going to the unconference?
 
11:52 AM
> Also, if your PC runs into problems, Microsoft will likely examine your system files. If the privacy of your system files is a concern, consider using a different PC.
What are system files
 
The files from the windows directory I suppose?
 
Ven
@rightfold pls
 
welp back into safe mode for me
 
can't you just buy a new computer?
 
I already did
it's just not due for delivery until next weekend
 
12:02 PM
oh I see
 
Are there any Coliru-like site for html+js? Something simple, not full-featured hosting.
 
jsfiddle
 
Thanks!
I actually need Emscripten-live (C++ to JS compiler), but I don't see anyone. html+js would be enough.
 
Emscripten is not a C++ to JS compiler.
it's an LLVM IR to JS compiler.
 
Well, then "emcc"
 
user1804599
12:11 PM
E = mcc.
3
 
nice one
 
user1804599
> A trap door turns up under you!
> Turn: 2
 
user1804599
On literally my first move I step into a goddamn trap.
 
@rightfold Rogue-like?
 
user1804599
Yes.
 
12:14 PM
Which one?
Nethack?
 
user1804599
Absolutely.
 
user image
2
%windir% is coming :-D
 
@rightfold There is nethack4 - ssh nethack43@nethack4.org (pass nethack43)
 
user1804599
uh ok?
 
That's not official.
 
12:23 PM
Yes, but a good one.
 
Buzzword overflow
 
user1804599
woo I stole a fortune cookie
 
You should do the right thing and give it back.
 
fuckers
can't play ftl asm.js if you didn't buy it from humble bundle
 
user1804599
12:39 PM
For some reason sounds don't work, though.
 
@fredoverflow wow so many things that you will get to learn in one night
 
user1804599
died with 1584 points :[
 
Floating eye?
 
user1804599
No, brown mould.
 
12:55 PM
Good news
My brother didn't go blind
And hello
 
@LucasHenrique That's good to hear
 
@AlexM. Yknow that kid in white orchard who sings a little song near the quest board? That song is stuck in my head T_T
 
@LucasHenrique Maybe you just misunderstood him, and he refused to go to a blind date?
 
FUCK
I just found a post about failing to use XMLHttpRequest, and I was going to comment "-1 needs more jQuery", and then it was deleted.
 
1:19 PM
int *p, *q;
{
    int a;
    p = &a;
}
{
    int b;
    q = &b;
}
std::cout << (p == q) << '\n';
What does this print?
 
@fredoverflow Incest for the win
Gay incest
 
How would that even work?
 
@fredoverflow UB.
 
@Puppy Im 80% sure it's not UB ;)
 
you're wrong, I'm fairly certain
 
1:20 PM
Oh wait, U could mean 2 things.
Do you mean undefined or unspecified?
 
probably 1 but it's indeed undefined.
 
damn, scope.
 
you're comparing two pointers which are not into the same array or object (or one-past-the-end of such)
undefined.
 
oh crap
 
I think it's 0
 
1:20 PM
so I'm fairly sure that even attempting to compare them is undefined behaviour.
 
Does Puppy win? Still not convinced...
 
of course he does
 
Wait, comparing with == should be possible, but not with < and friends, right?
 
Well, I think it works. I'll try it here.
 
I believe the same UB rules apply to all pointer comparison ops.
@LucasHenrique Pro tip: Understand what UB actually is before attempting to argue that it isn't UB.
 
1:22 PM
@fredoverflow (I think you already know it, but) the assembly stuff used to any comparation is the same
 
Xeo
@Puppy Can't be.
 
CMP eax, edx
 
> Two pointers compare equal if they are both null, both point to the same function, or both represent the same address (3.9.2), otherwise they compare unequal.
 
Lucas, that's completely irrelevant.
 
@Puppy I know what undefined behavior is and I really don't think it's undefined
 
1:23 PM
I see no UB there.
 
Xeo
Otherwise all if (this == &other) checks would be UB.
(It's not good style, but not UB)
 
if you knew what UB was you would not be trying to argue that it's not UB based on some random compiler output.
since it's impossible to demonstrate not UB based on the output of any compiler or any execution.
 
Crap, you're right
 
*reads the backlog*
 
Xeo
Only relational operators for pointers are UB if they don't point into the same object thing
 
1:24 PM
@Xeo this
 
Depending on the optimizations, it's obvious it's UB
 
Xeo
Which is why std::less<T*> does something special
(easiest way is an integer cast)
 
@Xeo I remember that std::less<T*> and operator< do different things for pointers.
 
the example posted by @fredoverflow is not undefined-behavior.
 
@Puppy No they don't, I just compiled to x86 and they do the same thing ;)
 
1:25 PM
lol
 
@FilipRoséen-refp What about the fact that they are both dangling? Irrelevant?
 
there is something about not operating on dangling pointers, as that can lead to processor traps in some hardware.
 
user1804599
func chance(probability float32) bool {
    return rand.Float32() < probability
}
 
user1804599
This seems good.
 
but I only have the vaguest rememberance that those rules may have existed, I don't really remember what they are.
 
1:26 PM
@rightfold What language is this?
 
@rightfold It's pretty awful.
 
user1804599
No, it's nice.
 
@fredoverflow yes, it is irrelevant - just because there is no object at a certain address does not mean that you cannot compare the value of the pointers. Since the values in the pointers cannot trap (they couldn't be assign such value to begin with) it is safe to read and compare them
 
Fuck this, I'm gonna ask on SO:
0
Q: Is it legal to compare dangling pointers?

fredoverflowIs it legal to compare dangling pointers? int *p, *q; { int a; p = &a; } { int b; q = &b; } std::cout << (p == q) << '\n'; Note how both p and q point to objects that have already vanished. Is this legal?

 
@fredoverflow yes, call me dumb but, what do you call "legal"?
 
1:28 PM
@FilipRoséen-refp They can't trap when they were assigned, but that doesn't mean that trying to load them into a register or something could not trap.
 
@rightfold @fredoverflow and what do the 2 lambdas in your pictures mean?
 
@Puppy they cannot trap in the comparison. it is important to note that the standard talks about "address" equality, it doesn't specify that it must be a living object at such address
 
Haskell /ˈhæskÉ™l/ is a standardized, general-purpose purely functional programming language, with non-strict semantics and strong static typing. It is named after logician Haskell Curry. == History == Following the release of Miranda by Research Software Ltd, in 1985, interest in lazy functional languages grew: by 1987, more than a dozen non-strict, purely functional programming languages existed. Of these, Miranda was the most widely used, but was proprietary software. At the conference on Functional Programming Languages and Computer Architecture (FPCA '87) in Portland, Oregon, a meeting was...
 
@fredoverflow Nice; thanks.
 
@FilipRoséen-refp No, but I believe there were processors that would trap if you tried to load a pointer to an invalid address into registers (say, to compare it) and that the C and C++ rules for dangling pointers accomodated this.
 
1:32 PM
How does the CPU know if some value is an address? Does it have special address registers?
 
@Puppy I am not familiar with any rule in the standard that would allow for such trap (we are never expecting the value of an object at that address)
 
@fredoverflow Seems reasonable.
 
> You take the contents from death variables
lol
 
death variables
 
deth verbibols
 
1:37 PM
I need to attend some other stuff, but I will write up an answer later unless someone takes time to language-lawyer the shit out of that question.
 
When did language-lawyer become a verb?
 
memory location == byte address?
 
@Veritas yes
 
The value in the pointer is not "invalid", see [basic.compound]p3. — Filip Roséen - refp 29 secs ago
 
1:39 PM
yay
 
I think in order to completely solve this we need to look at what the standard says about the memory model.
 
> Some implementations might define that copying an invalid pointer value causes a system-generated runtime fault.
ewwww.
 
like i said
 
specifically

A memory location is either an object of scalar type or a maximal sequence of adjacent bit-fields all having non-zero width

But I am not sure that memory location implies byte address
 
not relevant. such quote is relevant if we had something like int * p = reinterpret_cast<int*> (0xDEADBEEF);
the values of the pointers in the snippet are valid pointer values
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Comparing two pointers does not mandate that they point to a living object, this is covered in [expr.eq]p1: "Pointers of the same type (after pointer conversions) can be compared for equality. Two pointers of the same type compare equal if and only if they are both null, both point to the same function, or both represent the same address (3.9.2)."Filip Roséen - refp 2 mins ago
 
user1804599
 
@FilipRoséen-refp They're not values; they're lvalues and need lvalue-to-rvalue conversion first.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit it is in p2 in N3797, I was (by mistake) looking at N3337. @MattMcNabb the lvalue-to-rvalue conversion is not an issue, since the values of the pointers are not invalid. The quote related to invalid pointer values and undefined behavior are relevant for cases such as int * p = reinterpret_cast<int*> (0xDEADBEEF); // might trap. — Filip Roséen - refp 22 secs ago
 
Wow, that question generated a lot of heat.
 
hmm
it seems to me that reinterpret_cast<int*>(0xDEADBEEF) is an rvalue and would therefore dodge all lvalue-to-rvalue conversion UBs.
therefore it could be legal to say p == reinterpret_cast<int*>(0xDEADBEEF) but not int* q = reinterpret_cast<int*>(0xDEADBEEF); p == q
 
@Puppy hey puppy , are u a security expert? :P
 
1:57 PM
yes.
@fredoverflow Seems to me that ultimately the Standard is not particularly clear about this.
 
@FilipRoséen-refp: Please quote a standard, not a draft. — Lightness Races in Orbit 2 mins ago
wtf
"You need to pay $232323 to join our exclusive club of C++ language lawyers"
 
drafts like FDIS are pretty much Standard.
 
yup, Lightness's getting dimmer
3
 
"getting" dimmer?
 
what
 
2:02 PM
I was just about to write what Matt answered.
slowpoke
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Please buy me a copy of the standard so I can do that (it'd be great if you could mail me a printed copy, so I can show the actual standard in my answers instead of just its content, which appears to be of no relevance to you (the content, I mean)). — Griwes 2 mins ago
^ haha, that got my upvote!
 
mines too
 
@Griwes could you edit the comment and say that I am also very interested in such copy? (a printed one)
 
why did that not onebox
 
@Griwes thank you. I hope I get one in the mail!
 
2:07 PM
@Griwes: Buy your own like the rest of us. If you quote a draft, and don't have the real standard, how do you know the content matches a real standard? (The only exception is an FDIS.) It's ludicrous to pretend that I make this argument because "the content is of no relevance to me". — Lightness Races in Orbit 45 secs ago
"like the rest of us" Now revealed: LRiO has multiple personality disorder
6
 
ITT Butthurt Races in Orbit
ahahahahahhahaha
 
pizza, I want pizza :<
 
lol
 
> Congratulations on accruing sympathy upvotes from your silly chatroom friends, though.
^ from that very comment
 
lol the thread is long
I'm tempted to chime in with "hai guis whats going on in this thread XD"
 
2:11 PM
butthurt LRiO is butthurt
 
anyhow, time for a smoke and a cup of coffee.
 
gonna check the post-final-meeting mailing list for the list of changes.
 
maybe even two smokes.. I mean, it's sunday
 
@milleniumbug like the rest of us? is he trolling? i thought everyone was quoting the drafts we get on the interwebs
 
yes
 
2:16 PM
you mean the official standard is not available on the internet?
is it a state secret or sth
 
no it's an ISO document!
or something.
 
you mean you have to mount it with daemon tools?
AYYYY
 
.lol
 
@Borgleader From what I gather, it seems that Filip quoted the wrong revision that wasn't directly corresponding to the standard (as in, not the final one)
 
> The International Organization for Standardization (ISO) is an international standard-setting body composed of representatives from various national standards organizations.
TIL
 
2:18 PM
and LRiO called him out on it, which is fine, but the way he did this was wrong. He should've posted his arguments first, not last.
 
> With the exception of a small number of isolated standards,[21] ISO standards are normally not available free of charge, but for a purchase fee,[34] which has been seen by some as too expensive for small open source projects.
 
what did you think it was, ISIS Streetcleaners Organization?
 
so I guess compiler vendors have to pay $$$ to get the latest standards?
 
yep
 
@milleniumbug to be honest most final drafts have very few differences from the actual standards and it's relatively easy to find what changed.
 
2:19 PM
@milleniumbug So he quoted a not-final draft instead of the final draft, thats what all this is about?
 
what if your compiler vendor doesn't really care about the standard per-se :p
 
At first it sounded like "get a standard or gtfo"
@Borgleader Yeah, I think so
 
I will get back with quotes from the official (finalized) standard, later tonight - it will be one of those super-long posts, because the arguments raised by McNabb and LRiO are just.. freakin' weird, non-sensical, etc
 
@milleniumbug jeez, I think LRiO is approaching terminal velocity senility
 
"approaching"?
 
2:23 PM
@Puppy well i dont think he's always been this bad
i mean, only recently did i start plonking him for extended periods of time
his "quarrels" are getting more and more nonsensical, he picks the most pointless of things to call out people on, its increasingly silly
i mean ffs, everybody quotes the drafts, why is he calling refp out on it?
"get a draft like the rest of us" i dont know many people who do have one
 
@Griwes need to include "http://www."
 
Vote plz, I want "official stats"
2
 
@Jeremy blergh
 
@Griwes i fuck that up on the reg
 
user1804599
2:27 PM
 
user1804599
This is much better already.
 
Looks good
 
user1804599
 
@Veritas oh, right, oops
 
@rightfold I threw up in my mouth a bit
 
2:30 PM
someone actually voted yes.
 
user1804599
($horizontal ? $x : $y) += 1; :D
 
im sure some loungers have some, in fact i think @JerryCoffin may have one, but im also pretty sure its not the majority of people, which is what LRiO seems to claim
when he says "like the rest of us"
 
@Borgleader How do I vote in this poll? it only shows the outcome
ah you linked it to the outcome only
 
@Puppy i fucked up, remove /r from the link
 
way ahead of you scrubcake
 
2:34 PM
<3
 
repost it so it can be pinned(?)
 
The Lounge's C++ Standard owner's club poll: vote now
7
there
 
that was a perfectly reasonable discussion
and then lrio
 
as is often the case
"oh here's an interesting conversation, it would be a shame to derail it with pointlessly pedantic comments" said no LRiO ever
 
hmm
how do you set youtube to use HTML5 for video?
 
Ell
 
https://www.youtube.com/html5?gl=CA
here I think, on my end it says it already is but i think thats because i enabled it in the past
 
well
can watch in HTML5 with Chrome but not with Firefox
 
Ell
It works for me vOv
I have flash disabled
 
how do you do that?
 
@Puppy: And by "the rest of us" you mean you and a select few of your internet friends. — Lightness Races in Orbit 3 mins ago
hah
Butthurt Still Races in Orbit.
 
Ell
2:49 PM
@Puppy I can't remember, I enabled it ages ago. I thought it was through that page that borg and I linked
but maybe it wasn't vOv
 
I'm not suggesting that Filip's failure to cite a standard has anything to do with his being wrong: that's a totally different issue
wow
 
Ell
meh I'm changing my program constructor to take const shader& now instead
 
tired of this discussion
 
Ell
the same shader can make multiple programs so I think I will need that
 
@Ell There's a bunch of resources telling you how to do it; but Firefox seems to have changed their Options menu in the last couple months and they reference menu items that no longer exist
 
2:52 PM
arguing for the sake of arguing
 
Ell
@Puppy I don't recall having to do anything in firefox, just my youtube account settings
 
ah
found it (apparently you can only control addons in firefox by typing the address of the settings page into the bar, WTF)
but youtube html5 player still doesn't work in safe mode in Firefox, only in Chrome ;p
 
Ell
@Puppy I have a menu in the top right (3 horizontal lines) which when I press there is an addons item
also you can press alt and go tools>addons
or ctrl-shift-a
 
oh there it is
so settings for add-ons is not part of settings
that's a bit confusing
 
C++ so silly
Instead of making std::not1 version that works, they introduce extra algorithms like std::find_if_not
 
2:58 PM
inorite
 

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