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12:07 AM
SO is offline. Someone must have submitted comment votes too quickly.
6
 
@Maxpm that was announced ahead of time:
`We will be offline for maintenance for 15-20 minutes at 0:00 UTC (7:00PM EST)`
@Maxpm back up :)
 
12:39 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm using DejaVu Sans Mono these days, seemed to have some symbols other didn't.
 
anyone with sqlite experience?
i'm getting odd segfaults from sqlite3_prepare_v2()
"You cannot star your own messages". Fuck you.
3
 
@wilhelmtell Well, of course. Otherwise everything would be full of stars.
 
I just came to the conclusion that opera is much better than google chrome.. just thought I'd let you know.
 
@refp hmmm i concur, but I'm curious what made you conclude that
(I use opera, because of the keyboard support; functionally, chrome is right up there though, AFAICT)
 
@sehe with some tweaking it's easy to get it just the way you'd like, google is google..
chrome is chrome
I mean, I could do the same tweaks in chrome but opera justs.. floats my boat this night
 
Yup, you can even make it like chrome: my.opera.com/community/customize/skins/info/?id=8434
@refp Opera has been floating my boat for about 10 years now
I do use chrome as well. Firefox? Hardly (only when trying out un-missable extensions)
 
@sehe is there a way to disable the use of "speed dial" all together, or do I need to dig deep deep deep into opera?
 
1:09 AM
I never see it. I work with the keyboard, and my ^T, incsearch+Enter is too quick for me to notice the speed dial
 
hmm.. maybe if I symlink speeddial.ini to /dev/null
it's not about what's being seen or not, it's about privacy
 
I work with large sessions all the time, I don't use speeddial. There is 'new Private Window' for that (also not used by me). I use a master password, though and of course, noone can easily unlock my desktop or access my home folder
 
trust nothing and noone
master passwords are the devils work
 
really? So, tell me, do you have only one password then :)
 
nope
 
1:17 AM
Actually, opera's is quite good. It's the only one that positively resists decryption with a master password
 
though I have a little "algorithm" for remembering what passwords goes where, it's not exactly obvious but there is a minor pattern between my passwords, though some parts are random so if I don't remember the random characters, I'm.. locked out
 
I know, because I've tried multiple times over the last decades
 
though if someone finds out what your master password is; you are screwed
 
I use keepassx and home encryption. But my 'low-value' passwords are all just stored in opera, behind the master password
My 'higher-value' passwords never enter any kind of caching mechanism. I just mark them 'never remember' and type them in (or have keepassx autotype them for the untypables)
 
trust nothing and noone
:(
 
1:21 AM
@refp That way. Well, not keeping highvalue passwords in any kind of non-trustworthy storage solves that. You can have my master password (in a figure of speech) and I won't be screwed - I'll just have to reset a lot of passwords. You won't gain access to any of my computers or important accounts from the information in my browser caches
@refp trying to get that starred, eh
ok, there you go
 
I didn't want to get that starred..
:(
 
trust noone and noone :) If you don't want it starred, better not share it (twice)
 
to me there is no difference between "important accounts" and "less important accounts", they are all accounts who have some sort of link to me.. therefor they are all equally important, and I'm paranoid
I'd like to add that I'm schizophrenic as well, sadly that isn't the case (it could be, but who can know for sure?)
 
I don't get that at all. You're not paranoid if your accounts have links to you. Period
(or you have reason to get paranoid :))
 
@sehe the paranoia steps in since I created the accounts, they are linked to me. even if I use 3 proxies, anonymous nicknames and such, I still created them and they are still linked to me - whether I want to or not
subconsciously they way I'm writing on one forum could link to to a different account on another (I've done this to identify annoying users of a board I ran in the past, quite interesting by the way)
 
1:25 AM
To me - luckily I have common sense - there is a big difference in the sensitivity of the accounts I create. Which is a good thing, or I wouldn't be seen on the internets at all
 
compare logs from two sites and identify users not by their ip or user agent, but their surf pattern etc etc
I don't have common sense, I'm a fucking bot
 
Soooo. We figure out you actually exist, but are a nutcase and juggle live pigs for a living?
(the pigs may not be fully accurate...)
 
I live in the woods, I own a laptop and an axe (that I use to slay trolls with), I tried to dress up my penguins as speakers (but they died when I plugged them in, so I don't do that too often), I can't spell which makes me emeressed (<- intended), I overuse commas and I'm black.
that's all I know about myself
oh and for some odd reason I find writing code soothing, and modeling fun
I'm the weird pretty boy that smokes too much.
there.. that's it I think
oh yeah, and I troll - too much
 
That explains why your subconcious fled into latent schizofrenia then. I can't imagine anyone living with all that information about himself :)
 
/* the stuff about me being paranoid is legit tough */
 
1:30 AM
Really? That goes really really badly with the fact that you're on here, high-profile and linked to your photo-shoot without prompting the other day
 
I do have one set of differences between accounts though; accounts that should be able to link back to me, and accounts that I want to keep anonymous
 
So, let's add a bit of borderline to the mix. Anyways, on a more serious note, I know a thing or two about paranoia and borderline, it's no joke. Still, I always like to say, better laugh about it :)
 
refp falls in the first category
but the security of the accounts are equal; I don't want anyone to be able to access my accounts, period.
 
@refp Likewise here.
 
speaking of period; "leave you dcik heads covered in blood like period sex" - apathy
 
1:33 AM
@refp Tough job, since you depend on a lot of external parties for that to work. One screw up by SO, google, twitter or even your mom and it could be over
... erm... right?
 
and that's one of the reasons for (almost) unguessable passwords
@sehe I'm listening to Stop What Ya Doing (apathy ft. celph titled) as we speak. I want it to be 7:30 am so I can get back to recording some music of my own
 
So are you in the XKCD or Bruce Schneier camp when it comes to creating hard-to-guess password?
 
if I do it now my neighbors will complain (or they haven't done so yet, but I haven't been that quite these past few nights)
I'm in the refp camp
 
style? (the music)
 
of the passwords?
of course I'll not tell you any specific information regarding them, and.. what I've said is probably enough
meh.. edits are evil
(since I'm black) I listen to hiphop mainly, though when it comes to recording I'm more of a singer/song-writer
though I do rap as well (because I'm black)
did I mention that I'm black?
 
1:37 AM
I mean, do you swear by long passphrases (some altered James Joyce quote) or do you want to maximize entropy as some advocate (}QtoE?D#9/bJ9~et*zGD(W, e.g.)
By the way, what color are you?
 
the latter, though a sensible combination of the two is preferrable
 
Xeo
Seems I'm not paranoid enough
I use the same password for 8 years or so now
And it's not that long
 
@Xeo the name of your first love concatenated with the year of his/her birth?
 
Mmm. The latter is actually in the security through obscurity realm IYAM. By making passwords hard to remember, they become weak (because you'll have to start storing them). Relying on long passphrases is going to make them prohibitively hard to bruteforce, but not proportionally hard to remember.
 
they are only weak if you store them
the reason I'm not "into" longer passwords are because of their usability. Some sites (and services, not just http) have limits (please don't ask me why) on the length of the password
 
1:40 AM
So let me guess, you are doing silly, rememberable, phrases (with a twist) and then run them through sha256? Easy to do. Good scheme
 
even though I'd love to use a 100 character password, I couldn't do that (in many cases)
 
100 is overkill. I do have long passwords. And I do hash them if a site won't eat them raw
 
Xeo
I hate those password rules. "between 8 and 24 chars, must contain atleast one letter and one number"
 
well.. are you trying to make me tell you how my passwords look like?
 
Xeo
Social engineering is a crucial part of hacking
 
1:42 AM
@sehe it's a bloody example
 
No. I'm discussing opinions with one of the few live people I 'know' who care :)
 
@Xeo social engineering got me into bed with ya compiler
 
Xeo
My mom is dead. (just kidding)
 
@Xeo who said I wasn't into that? (I'm not)
 
@refp meh.. edits are evil
 
1:43 AM
@sehe PANCAKES.
 
I'm gonna flag that. We have a chat message malfunction :_)
 
what I hate is that their isn't any way to check the diff between edits of messages in this chat, or is there?
 
Eh. This chatroom is weird. Sometimes, there's nothing for a while, and other times, you just blink and bam, 100 new messages.
 
Xeo
@refp small arrow left beside a message, -> history
 
That's weird? This is weird:
2 mins ago, by refp
@sehe PANCAKES.
 
1:46 AM
@EtiennedeMartel your connection to the Internet is laggy, there is always a steady stream of messages in here. Cut your cables into shorter chunks, that will improve the INTERNET SPEED.
 
lol
 
@Xeo oh shiznit, thanks
 
is there something like a CPP preprocessor that can expand all templates in a certain scope?
 
not AFAIK
 
1:52 AM
That would be an awesome tool for debugging and perhaps portability / compilation times
I'm trying to minimize a potential compiler bug to something reasonable, but it's not working out due to some boost dependencies
 
I'm gonna grab a smoke, peace.
 
:->
 
Xeo
@sehe In what way?
 
well, like instantiating the template into nontemplate c++ code.
gcc --very-verbose perhaps?
 
Xeo
omg
 
1:57 AM
???
 
Xeo
struct nontrivial{
    nontrivial(){}
};

int main(){
    static auto ICE = []()->int{
        static nontrivial n;
        //static int i = 0; // comment in to resolve error
        return 0;
    };
}
This code triggers an internal compiler error on MSVC10
now comment in the marked line and it compiles
wtf
 
Is it compliant?
 
wt very f
 
"A fix for this issue has been checked into the compiler sources. The fix should show up in the next release of Visual C++."
Woa. A MS Connect ticket that does not end in "Could not reproduce" or "Will not fix"?
I'm SHOCKED.
 
Xeo
2:00 AM
Yep. And it was exceptionally fast
Was it one or two days?
2 days it was
Either it was a trivial bug or they had the fix in already
Damn, I should've tested this on VC11
 
There's still hope in that piece of crap of a bug tracker, then.
 
@EtiennedeMartel starting to get a bit on my nerves now (don't make me wait for it!)
 
Hm?
GIMME YOUR PANCAKES
 
posted on December 30, 2011 by Herb Sutter

With so much happening in the computing world, now seemed like the right time to write “Welcome to the Jungle” – a sequel to my earlier “The Free Lunch Is Over” essay. Here’s the introduction:   Welcome to the Jungle In the twilight of Moore’s Law, the transitions to multicore processors, GPU computing, and HaaS [...]

 
2:04 AM
nice. how do the feeds work?
room owners maintain a list of rss feeds?
 
I have no idea. It's like a bot puked on the chat.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Well, I rather like it. Nothing google reader didn't warn about, but still
 
Yeah, it's a neat feature when you think about it.
 
Xeo
It doesn't include STL videos D:
 
who's room owner?
 
Xeo
2:07 AM
Many
 
About everyone who spends so much time here that he could be part of the wallpaper.
 
Xeo
just click on info in the upper right corner
 
ah i c - i'm not frequently in here. My wife begs to differ :)
 
Xeo
Ha, I'm finally back in the "frequently in this room" overview. Not @sbi has no arguments against putting me back on the room owners list. :)
 
I feel like I'm always here, and yet I'm not in the "Frequently in room" list.
This is bull crap.
One day, I swear, I'm gonna be a room owner.
 
2:10 AM
Easy - just create your own room :)
 
thinking of it. a room owner, would that be what you'd call, a landlord?
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel Well, how many messages did you write in here? :P
It depends on that quite a bit
> 3067
 
Xeo
See, there is the problem
 
2:13 AM
Wait, vat?
 
Xeo
Etienne de Martel, Sherbrooke, Canada
10.8k 1 17 34
Geh
It changed that from the chat profile to the SO profile!
 
@Xeo can't link to chat profile. Sucks
Guess, they were too damn lazy to implement two pretty-printing css helpers for those anchors
 
Wait a minute.
 
That's been over a minute now
darn. spent 6+ hours chasing a gcc compiler bug that manifests itself 'randomly'. It turns out my eleminations did not fundamentally alter the case, only made the symptom disappear.
Time to go sleep then. Cheers all
 
That's strange - the chat wouldn't let me type
 
2:23 AM
Wise chat. Java script borked?
 
 
2 hours later…
Xeo
4:09 AM
What the fuck...
When I close a project in VS on this machine which has vertical tab groups open and reload it, it changes those to horizontal tab groups... Da fuck?!
 
Anyone use Windows Live Mesh (cloud storage)? Or does anyone use an alternative cloud storage?
 
user406009
4:47 AM
I wonder if C++ would be improved by showing a warning whenever people use public inheritence without virtual methods or templates, and asking:
 
user406009
"Inheritance is not the feature you are looking for, perhaps composition is what you seek"
 
why would composition be better?
 
I think it would be better if my C++ compiler didn't tell me what it thought.
"Your code is horrible, please refactor it."
 
Xeo
public inheritance: is-a, composition: has-a, protected/private inheritance: implemented-in-terms-of
Most of the time, if the base class isn't a template or contains virtual functions, "is-a" is not the right relationship
However, it can be very nice for things like empty base optimization (compressed_pair, inheritance from allocator/deallocator, etc)
or even like Dinkumware's STL does: seperating the interface (vector<T>) from the storage (_Vector_val<T>).
 
5:06 AM
Private inheritance is just fine for EBO.
 
Xeo
Well, yeah, true enough
 
Xeo
5:56 AM
2 hours ago, by Xeo
When I close a project in VS on this machine which has vertical tab groups open and reload it, it changes those to horizontal tab groups... Da fuck?!
Seriously, WTF?!
That's getting slightly annoying
 
6:11 AM
Hi all auto_pointer<X> p(new X);
Is there a way to create a auto_ptr object in the heap. So that we have to call delete explicitly to clean up the auto_pointer object.
 
2003 called, they want their auto pointer back :(
@balas why not use a normal pointer?
 
okay . i rephrase. does the auto_ptr code dis-allow creating objects in the heap. like making the new operator private.
 
no, but why would you want to have it on the heap? defeats the purpose
 
yeah. correct. that what i wanted to know. does the C++ STL implementation dis-allows the auto_ptr object being created in heap. if it doesnt then no point in using auto_ptr right. hope u get my question .
 
I don't really understand. Do you mean new auto_ptr<X>(new X)??
 
6:20 AM
yeah.
is it correct to do something like that .
if it is . then deleting this object falls in our head.
 
You can, but it's pointless
 
user406009
Yes, that is allowed. Most C++ objects don't care where they are allocated.
 
oh. okay . but is it not wise to dis-allow the object creating in heap. what is the rational in allowing a auto_ptr object to be allocated in heap also ?
 
adding artificial restrictions is pretty silly
 
i agree. but for a good library design is it not required. or am i missing some point in my understanding .
 
6:24 AM
there could be some use for it, I just don't know what.
 
Xeo
Hm. This is bad. I have a std::unique_ptr, which I sometimes allocate with normal new and sometimes through an allocator. That allocator is templated. How the fuck can I get my deleter to know the allocator? :|
 
OK
i'm preparing to get rid of linux from my HD
 
Xeo
why?
 
first time in 6 years to install windows on my box
because i'm sick of not being able to use modern hardware
 
just remember, you can take the linux out of the HD, but not the HD out of the linux
 
Xeo
6:27 AM
oO
 
windows7 will serve me right
 
modern hardware?
 
user406009
@Xeo You can specialize std::unique_ptr's deallocator to be a std::function.
 
user406009
That should work.
 
Samsung Galaxy S2
drops a tear
 
Xeo
6:28 AM
@EthanSteinberg I specifically want to avoid std::function. :/ It might require heap allocation
 
i hope i will not forget to save anything before i format xD
 
user406009
You can use function pointers if you hate std::function so much.
 
Xeo
sudo rm -rf / # screw that
@EthanSteinberg I don't hate it, I just don't want possible heap allocation in that part of the code
 
@Xeo you just said you were using new and allocators
 
user406009
<sarcasm> You can always specialize std::function's allocator </sarcasm> (which would be pointless, because if performance matters, trying to optimize a std::function down to function pointer level is pointless).
 
Xeo
6:32 AM
Yes, but I don't want extra heap alloc for the deleter
Oh well, I know that MSVC atleast employs a small functor optimization (similar to std::string small string optimization), so lets do this
The deleter won't be bigger than 8 byte anyways (reference to allocator)
oh hey, that won't work. At the point where I create the unique_ptr I have no way to get a reference to the allocator (I create it with placement new)
hmmmm
Idea ♪~
Hm, damn, that's no good too. RARGH
 
why again can't you use func ptrs?
 
user406009
Probably because function pointers have no state.
 
Xeo
Yep
How would I save an allocator in a function pointer?
 
I have an idea
 
user406009
You would do it C style, your unique_ptr's hold a pair, std::unique_ptr<std::pair<myType,void> >.
 
user406009
6:47 AM
Then in your deallocator you cast the void* to whatever state needed.
 
wait nvm
 
user406009
Have fun :) or more likely ☹
 
Xeo
@_@
I'm sure there is a simple solution to my problem somewhere.
I just don't see it
 
user406009
Write a custom functor?
 
user406009
For the deleter.
 
Xeo
6:52 AM
I have a (custom) linked list of static nodes that contain info on how to construct and destruct a certain loader type. That info is function pointers to constructand destruct functions, which are templated on the loader type, aswell as a void* pointer to the allocated memory.
I then walk that linked list like this:
    template<class Alloc>
    void init_all(Alloc& al) const{
        registry_node* n = first;
        while(n){
            n->ptr = al.allocate(n->size);
            n->ctor(n->ptr);
            n = n->next;
        }
    }

    template<class Alloc>
    void deinit_all(Alloc& al)  const{
        registry_node* n = first;
        while(n){
            n->dtor();
            al.deallocate(n->ptr);
            n->ptr = nullptr;
            n = n->next;
        }
    }
Hm
I think I'm having some double deletion anyways.
hmmmmm... another idea ♪~
Wish me luck.
 
Xeo
7:54 AM
Ahahahaha
There was a totally simple solution after all
I didn't need to know exactly which allocator a loader was allocated with, I only needed to know if it was allocated with one. If yes, I only p->~loader(); destruct it, if no I delete p; it.
So simple~
 
8:41 AM
HAHA now im on windows7. that was easy!
 
I'm sure FSF is rolling over in their grave
 
Xeo
@JohannesSchaublitb Win7 is cool
But I'd advise to either dual-boot a linux distro or to make a virtualbox, if you want access to a working clang. The windows port is still highly unusable IIRC
 
Xeo
7 hours ago, by Feeds
posted on December 30, 2011 by Herb Sutter

With so much happening in the computing world, now seemed like the right time to write “Welcome to the Jungle” – a sequel to my earlier “The Free Lunch Is Over” essay. Here’s the introduction:   Welcome to the Jungle In the twilight of Moore’s Law, the transitions to multicore processors, GPU computing, and HaaS [...]

 
Damit.
 
8:48 AM
@Xeo yeah perhaps i will install linux on my USB harddisk
i first tried to install win7 there... but it said "cannot install windows on USB disk".
 
sbi
@JohannesSchaublitb I think there was a c't article a while back explaining how to install Windows on an external disk.
 
sbi
@Xeo Done.
@Xeo Go for it!
BTW, @Xeo, I'm gonna be in Erkner starting noon today. We haven't decided on a time I'm gonna leave there, but considering that the people I'm visiting have a newborn baby, I'm likely to leave long before you go to bed. If you're still interested in meeting, I could drop off in Friedrichshagen on my way back and we have a beer or two. However, since I cannot fix any time, I will need to have a way of notifying you. Any idea?
If Apple's servers are slow today, it's because every son and daughter updated their parents to iOS 5 over the holiday.
 

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