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5:02 PM
anyone here have experience with semantic networks? Looking for some advise on how to structure my project..
basically parsing in an xml network file
but could do with some feedback on how I should be doing it
 
Check it out!! http://t.co/rqLAbxAixt
OH NO!! I've cracked the screen! http://t.co/or4TiTTlCQ
^^ lolz
 
5:28 PM
Did they even release ti yet?
 
May be
I am not sure
 
fge
5:53 PM
Yay, grappa has reached 20 stars! And the twentieth "starrer" works for the CNRS, no less
 
@fge Have you dropped plans for grappa-debugger web ?
 
fge
@ItachiUchiha no, quite the opposite, it will be necessary for the work I am currently doing
But right now I need to develop the grammar
 
fge
And I have found a maintainer for json-schema-validator
 
Do you have any wire-frames for them?
gZ!
 
fge
5:55 PM
wire-frames?
 
How it is supposed to look
 
hey i had a question i posted earlier but have not received a respnse on it. I was wondering if anybody would be able to take alook at it
 
the L&F
@ryekayo on ?
 
fge
@ItachiUchiha my objective is to have it look somewhat similar to the desktop app; hence my choice to go with jqWidgets for the moment
 
jq as in jquery widgets?
 
fge
@ItachiUchiha yes, although you can use them with other JS libraries as well (angularjs for instance; which I quite like)
Another option would be to use GXT but that would be kind of defeating the point... I'm still considering it however
 
hello all..
i have one question regarding new framework of java for desktop applications.
 
fge
@JavaMan as in? JavaFX?
 
yups!! exactly!!
so may i ask?
 
fge
6:14 PM
Sure
But then again, any version of the "ask to ask" protocol is more bandwidth consuming than the "ask" protocol, so just ask :p
 
hahahaha.. okay :p
 
fge
(now, that you get an answer is another matter)
 
so my question is to how much scopes of working as javafx developer? m currently developing application in javafx 8.
developed 3 application on javafx.
 
fge
Uh? Sorry, I don't understand what you mean/want
 
it means it is really helpful in future to working in javafx?
 
6:17 PM
it's better than working with swing, if that's what you want to know..
 
i already working on it.. but now javafx support more feature than swing so i switch to javafx
 
Swing is scheduled for eventual death
any swing application is by definition a legacy application then
 
I'm so bad at this. I spent so much time working with the SQL in the console, but now I'm supposed to put it in my app and I'm all "WHERE DO I PUT THE SQL!!???"
 
if maintenance / legacy programmer is your dream job: go ahead and stay with swing
if you want to keep up with times and create new applications in the future: go for javafx
@Gemtastic depends...
 
Hi all, anyone know Spring with MVC?
 
6:19 PM
as per my knowledge i didn't heard much about javafx application in market.. so what is the future of javafx? is it going well in market for desktop apps?
ya already switch to javafx..
 
@JavaMan either you're positively trolling or you didn't hear /understand what I said
 
@Vogel612 Well, if you can point me in the right direction I would be soo happy
 
Anyone here proficient with MPAndroidChart?
 
soryy @vo
 
@Gemtastic I'd take a wild guess (since you're allegedly using hibernate entities) and say: @NamedQueries
 
6:21 PM
sorry @Vogel612... but things not like that as you think
 
@Vogel612 Well, I've intended to use Hibernate because I don't know where i'd put the SQL :P
 
6 mins ago, by fge
But then again, any version of the "ask to ask" protocol is more bandwidth consuming than the "ask" protocol, so just ask :p
 
i just ask m at good track or not?
 
yes you are
 
But at the same time.. I kinda feel like "Just let me do this vanilla ok?" I can ge tthe whips and chains later
 
6:22 PM
well sure you can do it vanilla
then you'd usually put it into some constants in your DAOs
or however you want to call your data access layer
also on a completely unrelated note, I think you (and maybe I too) would enjoy the whips and chains
 
Hmm DAO seems like a vital key squints eyes better see what happens when I google it
 
(inappropriate sexual joke: check)
 
is there any big company or anything which is working on javafx? i didn't heard much about that.. so m confused..
 
DAO = Data Access Object?
 
@JavaMan big companies always are a little slower..
@Gemtastic exactly
 
6:25 PM
so javafx is future for desktop app right?
 
on another completely unrelated note: I finally passed 2.1k rep.
@JavaMan correct (I just already told you thrice, but alas)
 
No wonder I haven't been able to puzzle it together
 
fge
@Gemtastic using Hibernate?
 
@Vogel612: sorry man!!
 
fge
@JavaMan the future of Java desktop apps
 
6:27 PM
I so have to get around to doing tutorials on this when I know it. I hate all the "Just write like this and it'll work" so called "tutorials"
@fge Are you trying to fit Jooq In here? ;p
 
fge
Yes, obviously :p
 
which are the competitors of javafx?
 
:22053570just ask
 
facedesk
 
fge
For Java, none
 
6:28 PM
@Vogel612 Hmm?
 
okay it's official I will never be patient enough to be a teacher
 
@fge I was just thinking that the files which you load to the debugger to parse are in hundreds of? MB's. Do you really expect users to upload such a huge file to the web-debugger?
 
fge
@ItachiUchiha that is a really extreme case, you know
 
@ItachiUchiha well they could download the desktop app either way...
 
fge
Most files I get are a few kB, or a few hundreds kB at worst
 
6:30 PM
Most of the files would be just in few MB's right?
@Vogel612 I am to understand the adv :)
 
fge
But I do intend to code an interactive debugging mode as well
Not right now though
 
@fge debugging mode? wow, that is something out of the box
 
fge
So, basically, you'll run a dedicated parse runner, and the app will break when you ask it to etc
Break as in pause, of course
 
this discrepancy is getting on my nerves more and more..
 
lolz, who wrote that?
 
fge
6:33 PM
Grrr, of course, for coding a plugin for a new language, Sonar only documents Maven
 
Uni..
 
fge
Sonar, get a LIFE, damnit
 
@fge Sonar support for maven is great, for ant it sucks, for gradle never tried
 
fge
I just don't want to use maven; that's a no-no
 
<-- have been learning to use gradle since yesterday :D
 
6:48 PM
public void callMethodFromOnClick(/*no parameters!!!*/){//stuff} ---> Could not find a method callMethodFromOnClick(View) in the activity class
moral of story : use View as parameter type
always
 
that's goddamn android..
 
looks away
 
7:08 PM
How do I allow a variable amount of people around the world to securely access a database server from a jar file, but not change the database information outside the jar..
and simultaneously hide the database login information inside the jar
 
you cannot do that
 
Am I in imaginationland..
 
not matter what you do, if the person wants to, he can get the information out of it
 
fge
0
Q: How to develop a Sonar plugin for a new language using gradle?

fgeI am currently developing a Sonar plugin for a new language; in fact, for me developing the parser for the language is, in fact, the easy part. It is the rest I have trouble with, and the first road block is Sonar's documentation, which only covers Maven. But I use gradle. The example in the d...

 
you can add encryption and obfuscate the jar, but none of it is 100% safe
 
7:10 PM
ya.. I figured that to be one option..
 
fge
@Woodrow don't do it
It's that simple
A jar is never the place to store sensitive information
Such sensitive information is to be provided by the user of the jar
 
any alternative to doing what I listed above without me providing database login info.?
I'm guessing that alternative wouldn't allow all users to access the same database..
 
fge
Something like OAuth2, maybe...
But if you want a truly secure setup, there is no other choice than have the user do some of the work
And there is a balance to achieve: user involvement vs security guarantees
And that is yours to define
 
thanks
 
7:52 PM
Hi guys)
Who works with weblogic?
Help me please :)
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/29013093/why-weblogic-create-new-session-each-time-when-i-refresh-page
In short:
When I reload page, each time i received new session.
 
fge
Not me
 
fge
8:20 PM
Argh, sh*t
I'll have to use maven
 
@Second let's chat!
 
@Gemtastic I like to take services from application to application
So I usually bundle services, along with all of their associated mappers and domain objects, in one package.
 
Interesting
 
Think of them as a mini library that does one specific thing.
Second, a service does more than just CRUD
 
fge
@SecondRikudo if you are willing to, I'd like you to give a session on "webapp push"; that is, what mechanisms exist to push data from the server to the client in webapps instead of having the client submit HTTP requests all the time
 
8:22 PM
I've never heard about that approach before :P
 
@fge I don't have that much expertise there as I'd like to
But it's a good opportunity to do research
 
fge
Well, I have zero expertise myself :p
 
I'm still waiting for your NNF lecture though :P
@fge Are you familiar with TCP?
 
fge
Yes, I know :) And I'd truly like to take @Gemtastic's database model as an example but then data is needed too
Yes I am
 
@Gemtastic Heard of web sockets?
@fge Then you already know 80% of it :P
 
fge
8:23 PM
Hmm?
 
@SecondRikudo Yes
 
@fge WebSockets are practically glorified TCP connection between client and server
 
fge
Well, I'm also familiar with HTTP and this is where things start to get awry
 
There's a persistent connection, and client and server can exchange messages freely
 
fge
Hmm, OK, I have read that much
 
8:25 PM
Then client-side hooks can be used to be asynchronously called whenever a message comes in
 
fge
Now, how to take advantage of this...
 
socket.on('message', function(messageObject) {
    // Do stuff here!
});
 
fge
It's the protocol I'd like to understand
 
I'm not 100% familiar with the protocol itself, your best bet is to read the W3C specs
 
fge
Hmm
 
8:26 PM
Back to @Gemtastic
A Service level object does more than CRUD
 
nods
 
fge
I don't trust the W3C fully when it comes to stuff like that; I prefer a good old, solid RFC, but ohwell
 
It abstracts an entire portion of the application
For instance, the AuthenticationService handles any and all authentication
The idea is that for every piece of functionality your model has, you have a service.
So for instance, I'd have a ScheduleService that handles all of the appointment scheduling on a higher level
 
fge
Just for the record however... I have received the Sennheiser headset
 
It doesn't just edit Appointment objects
 
8:29 PM
@Second sorry for asking something completely related, but when you look at my webcode, do you think I've got potential?
 
fge
But what I didn't fully pay attention to is the fact that it has no combined jack for input/output
 
You can have a method for moveAppointmentDate or checkIfMechanicAvailable(Date date)
@fge No respectable headset has those
Because it drastically reduces quality.
 
fge
@SecondRikudo that is defensive coding; and when you use an RDBMS what you want is offensive coding
 
@Gemtastic In all of my life I've only ever told one person that development is not for him.
 
fge
Hence the value of JooQ -- again
 
8:31 PM
@fge That's not the job of the service.
The service exposes API that's DB agnostic.
 
@SecondRikudo Does that mean you can't give me an objective opinion on whether I should show my webapp to my potential employer or not?
 
A controller has a look at the service, and he has no idea there's a DB somewhere behind it
 
fge
Maybe, but on the other hand you can redefine your service as setAppointment(Date, Mechanic) or moveAppointment(Appointment, Date)
 
@Gemtastic In this particular project, so far, you only have boilerplate code.
 
fge
Bah, I'll talk about this in my *NF session ;)
 
8:32 PM
@SecondRikudo my WEB app?
 
@Gemtastic Oh, that shopping one
It was the first webapp you've written, right?
 
@SecondRikudo Yes, seeing as my current one is a desktop :P
@SecondRikudo Yes
And pretty much all on my own (but with some tutoring from here)
 
I think that, while it had flaws, and even though it wasn't correct, you still show a great deal of understanding, and ability to learn and improve yourself.
That's very important.
 
They wanted me to send some code if I had some and I don't think I have the time to fix everything that's wrong with it anytime soon...
 
fge
OK, back to work for me
 
8:35 PM
@Gemtastic "They"?
Thought it was a PHP job
 
fge
(switching a project from... Gradle to maven! That is going backwards)
 
Or am I mixing with something else?
 
@SecondRikudo Would you recommend I show it with the notes that it is my very first, I taught myself and I am aware of most of its flaws?
 
@fge Good luck :P
@Gemtastic If you have a chance to present it yourself, than yes.
 
fge
Luck is not what I need here
What I need is mental fortitude
 
8:35 PM
@SecondRikudo It's one of the tools they use, and that app is the one I can show that's relevant...
 
Because then you can point the flaws yourself, and show that you really understand them
 
@SecondRikudo They want to see it before the interview
But I can always attach a readme
 
@Gemtastic And comments
 
@SecondRikudo nods
 
Like // The following is a Singleton, it's bad because X Y Z
 
fge
8:36 PM
@Gemtastic just add an addendum to the code which is a document, or mail or whatever, explaining what you think are the flaws in your code and how you would go about fixing them
 
@Gemtastic on the other hand
 
fge
Even if you DO NOT know how to fix them at first; just to show that you are aware of what should be done and why it's better than what you have
 
I do think you have a small problem with procrastinating :P (Which is fine, we all do, but you should be aware of it)
 
I know
It's probably because I feel a bit hapless about what to do. I've been reading so many things but I kinda feel like I still don't know what to do...
 
Challenge yourself. You need to be able to tell yourself "Alright, I need to be productive for the next two hours", and actually be productive for the next two hours.
It's not as easy as it may sound.
 
8:39 PM
Oh,I have no issue with that. I'm currently watching a tutorial on JPA
I wonder if I should use that instead
 
fge
Don't
 
!!live
 
fge
JPA is horrible
 
@SecondRikudo I'm not dead! Honest!
 
!!xkcd efficiency
 
8:39 PM
 
fge
If you need an alternative, JooQ, JooQ, JooQ
I'll explain why in my *NF lecture
Err
Session
But DO NOT go JPA
 
@Gemtastic the tool you pick is irrelevant.
You simply do not have the luxury of time to choose.
Trust your instincts and trust us, pick the tools we recommend, for now.
 
I need a tool I can use so far i still don't even know what dependency to import
 
When you have more time, challenge yourself to switch libraries.
 
fge
OK, I'll try and collect sufficient material for the relational model for this weekend
And you'll see
;)
 
8:42 PM
@fge TBF I do most of my database interaction over a REST API
 
Today's bug; why won't the tabpane scale with the window :/
 
fge
@SecondRikudo that may not be the problem; the problem is how you reason about your data
 
@fge If you understand REST, it doesn't stay a problem for long
 
fge
You should not reason about the data but about the business requirements
Your API should be modeled around the latter and NEVER about the former
 
It would help if I had a project to look at and study :&
 
fge
8:43 PM
@Gemtastic well, my debugger
It's pretty simple
 
@Gemtastic I agree, sorry I couldn't get you one :(
 
fge
I have two tables
And the data I extract from it is NEVER a one-to-one match about a particular table
My model is entirely... Modeled... On the business requirements
 
@fge There! That's the terminology I was looking for!
Your service should describe the way you handle the business requirements, not the way you deal with your data.
 
fge
And I can do this because I use JooQ
Had I used Hibernate or any other "classical" ORM, what I am currently doing would be downright impossible
Plain and simple
 
I fail to see how your database mapping framework is relevant to this
The Service is a different Layer
Your controller/view never looks at JooQ or Hibernate or even plain ol' SQL queries (or API calls, or Mongo or...)
 
fge
8:47 PM
@SecondRikudo because the data I extract from said tables require that I query the data in ways that a classical ORM just cannot handle
 
@fge Interesting, an example?
 
fge
And yes, I could have used JDBC
Well, the video I have made -- you have seen it already, right?
 
I have it opened in a tab at work, but haven't got around to watch it seriously
Can has link again please?
I have some spare time now
 
@SecondRikudo But isn't that what I'm doing?
Maybe I should call it a CRUDService?
 
8:49 PM
As for your combo jack problem, there are adapters that can take two jacks and combine them into one
@Gemtastic What are you abstracting with such a service?
If you have a CRUDService, why not just call your data mappers and domain object directly in your controller?
 
Abstracting?
 
"Abstractionn" is the concept of making something less concrete
 
I thought the controller would call the service
@SecondRikudo I know but I don't know what you mean by it in this context
 
Instead of dealing with primitives, you're dealing with objects. Instead of dealing with objects, you're dealing with behaviors, etc.
@Gemtastic The service layer is a layer that abstracts away the data, and only exposes business logic.
 
I imagined that particular service to handle what you do with the data objects
 
fge
8:52 PM
@Gemtastic the video I have just linked above is an excellent example of what @SecondRikudo said
 
You don't deal with data directly. You tell the service, and it deals with the data for you, to get the behavior you want.
 
fge
(I think)
 
@SecondRikudo Exactly
 
Telling your service to edit(appointment) is no different than editing the appointment yourself
 
You tell the service what you want it to do with the object you supply it and it does it
Well here it all comes in with studying an existing project
I don't know what it's supposed to look like
I'm just guessing
 
fge
8:53 PM
No, you don't supply the object
You supply "some data"
Now, the service may map that data or not
This is what DTOs are for (Data Transfer Object)
DTOs may, or may not, map to actual "entities" in your model
It's the role of the service to know that and to fiddle with the DTO if needed
 
I imagined it would be like this; the view gets a search request which it gives to the controller. The controller sends it to the service which will do whatever it needs to do to sort out the relevant data and hand it back to the view
 
fge
CRUD operations are just a particular kind of service where the DTO closely matches what your individual data elements really are
 
But Well... my flawed thinking is what's keeping me at a standstill
 
In the case of an appointment, CRUD is an obvious need
But there's more to the service than that.
The service can hold a method Set<Mechanic> getAvailableMechanics(Date date)
That's beyond simple CRUD to the Appointment objects
It now involves a date, the appointment objects and the mechanic objects.
 
I have a service that's called StatisticsService, it's supposed to handle statistics queries. How does that differ from what you're trying to explain to me?
 
fge
8:59 PM
@SecondRikudo meh, I'd just appreciate if you could watch the video and tell me what you think :p Note that I am aware of some mistakes in it too (however this did not prevent the JooQ guys to tweet it)
 

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