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10:00 AM
circ is shit
 
@SecondRikudo I wondered if it was just me ..
 
if you are on windows use mirc
 
@BasementKeyboardHero Mjolnired.
 
 
10:03 AM
@BasementKeyboardHero You are not helping matters by continuing the discussion 12 hours later
 
He's from Silicon Valley and he cofounded a startup ship yo
Dude ..
 
@BoltClock true
 
Blueseed was a Silicon Valley-based startup company and a seasteading venture to create a startup community located on a vessel stationed in international waters near the coast of Silicon Valley in the United States. The promoters believe that the location would enable non-U.S. startup entrepreneurs to work on their ventures without the need for a US work visa (H1B), while living in proximity to Silicon Valley and using relatively easier to obtain business and tourism visas (B1/B2) to travel to the mainland. After the conclusion of their incubation on the vessel, successful startups may relocate...
 
sorry about that
 
They cited the shit out of their wiki article
If uni students cited their shit like that all the lecturers would quit xD
 
10:09 AM
//me goes out cuz irc is awesome
 
Way to go censorship! May I at least know who deleted my comments? What if someone actually wanted to delete their answer? I suggested kindly; I didn't "tell" anyone. — Dan Dascalescu yesterday
 
@Neil "kindly"
 
He's just reminding them of what they already wanted to do. What a swell guy
 
Lol
These are your people.
 
Dunno why people care that much
 
10:15 AM
@Eirinn o/
@Sippy How was your bum this morning?
 
@KeyboardWarrior Timely ..
I don't give a flying fuck about the England cricket team
 
@Sippy He's getting faster
 
So aside from the curry last night, fine
 
@Sippy Go wipe that blood from your crack dude
 
@KeyboardWarrior go wipe that crack from your blood dude
 
10:16 AM
Go wipe that crack off your face yo :D
owait that is yo face
bazinga!
 
bazoopers
 
Has anyone here ever used this? devdocs.io/css/counter-increment
 
@Eirinn Yes
 
@SecondRikudo @Mr.Alien
 
@StephanMuller .. lolwat
 
10:19 AM
@SKM17 ..?
 
@StephanMuller for what specifically?
 
@SecondRikudo @Mr.Alien I have a small issue.how to break the sentence in data-title attribute. here I done demo jsfiddle.net/techpalani/… can u solve this
 
@SKM17 Why are you pinging us?
 
kame ..
 
@Eirinn don't remember, but some kind of custom list counter
 
10:19 AM
!!phanks
 
@SecondRikudo I need a help
 
good summary of TBBT's level of humor if you ask me
 
haaaaaaaaaameeeeeeeeeeeeeee
 
@SKM17 Pinging random users in chat is the best way to get ignored, not helped. Just FYI.
 
10:20 AM
I want to cryo myself until flexboxes become standard
 
@SecondRikudo sorry
 
just pose the question in the room next time. pointing out someone to solve it is not going to work
 
does anyone know if there is anything documented about this, i have already answered it, but i just wanted to find docs. stackoverflow.com/a/28626438/3556874
 
@cimmanon that down vote train though >.<
 
10:23 AM
@NaeemShaikh your fiddle link is broken
 
@Eirinn I thought we were lovers...
 
@KeyboardWarrior The meta effect is such shit
All it does is create a mess for the mods
 
To be fair he's pissed off a lot of people
 
@KeyboardWarrior just for one night
 
@BoltClock i am going to upvote cause reasons :D
@BasementKeyboardHero He is been a dick
 
10:24 AM
@BoltClock Yeah well, that's not really something that can ever change.
 
@Eirinn i m sorry corrected now
 
@SecondRikudo Sometimes I actually hate meta more than main
 
You put a user/post in a spotlight with your most highly moderation-active users
You're going to get a lot of action, obviously.
That's why mentioning a specific user and/or specific post is to be done with great care.
 
Downvoting is a sign of disagreement, which means for a yes question, someone answers yes and you accept it. But a no question becomes undiscoverable because it gets hidden by all the "no" votes
 
(Which is why mods are prevented from doing that unless all cards are to be opened)
 
10:26 AM
Probably an artifact from the UserVoice days
 
As I see it, downvoting isn't just disagreement, it is for a wrong answer
You can disagree with an answer without declaring it necessarily wrong in every sense imho
 
I'm talking about questions on meta
 
Oh, then I suppose in that case, yes
 
Questions where the answer is no essentially get shut down on meta. Just because the answer is no
 
@Neil No.
 
10:27 AM
Not because OP is a bundle of sticks. Not because the question is off-topic. Not because it was poorly researched. But because it's the answer to the question
 
I'll downvote a perfectly correct answer if it failed to address an SQL injection
Or an XSS vulnerability
 
Then it isn't a perfectly correct answer, now is it?
 
@BoltClock I would agree though that at times having the accepted answer always at the top by default is the wrong move
 
It can answer the question, but if it doesn't address security aspects, it is wrong and worthy of being downvoted imho
 
@SecondRikudo I'm not sure what you are referring to
The question doesn't even get an answer unless someone is kind enough to post a proper answer that can be accepted instead of just downvoting
 
10:30 AM
By disagreement, I mean the case where there is more one way to skin a cat, and both have pluses and minuses.. if I feel one way is better, I wouldn't necessarily downvote the other that picked the other way
 
@BoltClock Situation where the accepted answer is hardly helpful, and the second answer has x100 the votes
 
We all have different priorities in the end
 
@SecondRikudo Are you talking about programming questions on main?
 
@BoltClock Yes.
 
Hello
 
10:31 AM
@Neil There are three levels to a solution IMO
Correct, Robust and Elegant/Maintainable
 
I need some help in CSS to center a div
 
7 mins ago, by BoltClock
@SecondRikudo Sometimes I actually hate meta more than main
4 mins ago, by BoltClock
I'm talking about questions on meta
 
@BoltClock Ah, yes, different problem then
 
is there someone that could help?
 
@serhio ask away
 
10:32 AM
A solution can be correct, but not robust
 
centering hello
 
Most solutions don't really care about maintainability
 
"Write a function that accepts a number between 1 and 10, and outputs it squared"
 
only "col2 and inner class should me modified"
 
10:33 AM
function square(x) {
    if (x == 1) { console.log(1); }
    if (x == 2) { console.log(4); }
    ...
}
 
This solution is correct, but it is not robust or maintainable.
 
@SecondRikudo there's probably something like that out in the wild
on an ecommerce site that stores your passwords as text
 
I define correct as the the cumination of what you define as correct, robust, and elegant/maintainable
 
function square(x) {
    if (x === 1) { console.log(1); }
    if (x === 2) { console.log(4); }
    ...
    else { throw new Error('Number must be between 1 and 10'); }
}
This solution is both correct and robust, but it is not maintainable.
 
10:34 AM
Maybe sound is a better word for that. An answer can be sound in that it works and it fixes the problem
 
@BasementKeyboardHero cool! is vertically possible too?
 
But not necessarily robust or elegant
 
function square(x) {
    if (Math.floor(x) !== x && (x > 1 || x < 10)) { throw new Error('...'); }
    console.log(x * x);
}
This solution is all three ^
 
technically function squareTwo() { return 4; } is sound, but hardly maintainable or elegant
 
Exactly.
It's correct, but I'd still downvote it.
 
10:36 AM
@serhio there's a property called vertical align
Try applying it ^^
 
I expect some level of "elegance" (with the lack of a better term) in a solution, if you fail to comply, I'll downvote, yes.
 
@BasementKeyboardHero You pinged the wrong guy
 
@BasementKeyboardHero does not work in my case
 
@SecondRikudo also caching variables, PDO database connections, etc...
 
@BoltClock Both starts with se, I spoke more recently.
 
10:38 AM
@SecondRikudo Damn you, autocomplete!
 
@DarkAshelin caching variables is less of a problem for me.
 
@SecondRikudo ORLY
 
@BoltClock that happens more times than i d like to admit :P
 
When giving out bounties I raise the bar, yes.
 
(just messing ;D)
 
10:38 AM
But I wouldn't downvote you for not caching your variables
 
(Unless of course it has an important role in the question)
 
don't remember if I already thanked you for the bounty
 
I would if I told you about it and you ignored it :P
 
if not, thanks :D
 
10:38 AM
@DarkAshelin You have.
 
@BasementKeyboardHero mean
Ignorance is bliss, don't they say that xD
 
It's for your own good :P
the next time you're writing code you ll be like that asshole (me) won't let me hear the end of it
 
@DarkAshelin TBF since both are equally readable, you want to go with the more performant solution. Variables are cheap, DOM is expensive :P
 
@basement ok, thanks anyway, your solution already helped, I will try to find myself the vertical one!
 
You should thank whomever deity you're praying to that I haven't code reviewed a solution you've written @DarkAshelin
That's where I'm at my peak of Nazism.
 
10:40 AM
@serhio You ll need to apply it on it's parent since it has display table-cell
@SecondRikudo you must be fun at audits :P
 
@BasementKeyboardHero the parent is a Table-cell too )
 
@BasementKeyboardHero No, I am not. But I am good at them.
 
@serhio you ll have to apply it to col2
 
It never happened yet that I've made a security audit that later failed a penetration test.
@DarkAshelin stop thinking about DP!
 
@SecondRikudo wat!
 
10:42 AM
@DarkAshelin I read minds, haven't I told you already?
 
@SecondRikudo well imho using variables makes the code less readable :(
 
@BasementKeyboardHero oh you are my hero!
thanks
 
@DarkAshelin Well, if you want to preserve the same status as much as possible, var $foo = $('.foo') is a good way
 
@SecondRikudo It's just the fact that assigning a variable takes up an extra line of space
I won't argue the performance increase
 
10:43 AM
But I think that var $menuItems = $('#header nav ul li.menu-item') is a good thing.
 
but I hate having more lines of code than absolutely necessary xD
 
@DarkAshelin That's not a good habit to have.
Less code !== More readable.
I could write any application in one line and minimum statements
 
@SecondRikudo Which meta question were you and bolt referring to?
 
With 1 letter variables
 
Or .. mostly bolt
 
10:44 AM
@SecondRikudo I know
 
The "downvotes mean disagreement" thing was just a general rant about the subject matter
 
another bad habit of mine is almost never commenting my code
I'll learn some day.
 
@DarkAshelin I only comment when the intent is unclear.
 
The rant about the meta effect specifically has to do with all the downvotes Dan received as a result of Mr. Alien's meta post
 
@SecondRikudo same, but then again I almost always find my code clear enough
 
10:45 AM
@DarkAshelin you ll get used to it, assume the next person has no idea what the project is
 
@DarkAshelin Have you ever went back to code you wrote 6 months back?
 
@BasementKeyboardHero this
 
@SecondRikudo yes
 
@DarkAshelin And you could perfectly recall why you wrote every single line?
 
the thing that I found is: I've never ever found comments on code useful so far
 
10:46 AM
@BoltClock It's not like the meta effect isn't well founded.
 
@SecondRikudo yep
because I understand my code.
 
@DarkAshelin Then comments were probably not needed.
 
The surge of downvotes he received were the result of numerous people disagreeing with his conduct.
 
It's not a question of understanding the code
 
anyway, even when reading other people's code, I almost always immediately understand the intent
 
10:46 AM
It's like the difference between being able to read English and understanding what the author meant.
 
You're right it doesn't quite align with the way in which votes are supposed to work
 
IF I do not understand how it works, then it is usually not explainable with 1-2 lines of comment
but it's usually a structural problem that I fail to understand
 
@DarkAshelin You can't really document an application's structure in comments anyway.
 
But if it works in a way that wasn't intended, the designer is at fault lol
 
That's where an external documentation document comes into play.
 
10:47 AM
@SecondRikudo exactly
 
Imo there should only be an upvote button.
 
@SecondRikudo yep
 
@DarkAshelin do you ever find yourself looking for things in the code? let's say it's a js carousel, do you find yourself going "ok so y variable is x" << even though it's clear if you had a comment there that says "y variable is potato" you d save yourself the time that it takes to look for it
 
@DarkAshelin The things I comment about are generally things like
 
Poor answers should just be moderated.
 
10:48 AM
anyway my point is: I've never found code commenting useful. even when reading other people's code, I always find their comments so extremely useless
 
@DarkAshelin Cos you've never done it proper, m8
 
@Sippy I'm talking about other people's code now
 
var filteredMenuItems = menuItems.filter(someFilter); // I only want these specific menu items because x y z
 
Or seen it proper.
 
people that do comment their code
 
10:48 AM
Code commenting is useless when you comment one line in every 300 because you couldn't make it work the way it was meant to
That's pointless, really.
 
@SecondRikudo nah usually that's pretty obvious even without the comment
 
When you have a codebase that has hundreds of thousands if not millions of lines
 
@DarkAshelin Not really
 
@SecondRikudo for me it is
 
Code comments mean you don't need to read the entire method to know what it is, how it works and what it outputs.
 
10:49 AM
"Why the hell did he filter out menu items 1 and 2?"
 
There's well established guidelines for writing proper comments
 
"Because the markup is crappy and 1 and 2 are not real menu items"
 
if not, I'll think "hmm, why does he use filter here?" then I look around a bit and understand. imo it's better to figure it out by urself than just reading the comment and not fully understanding how it works
 
First priority should be to write code that doesn't require commentary
 
That sort of thing can never be obvious from code alone
 
10:50 AM
@Neil +1
 
You have to be familiar with the markup too, which isn't always the case.
 
59 secs ago, by Sippy
When you have a codebase that has hundreds of thousands if not millions of lines
 
Second priority should be to comment anyway
 
Not always a good idea.
 
@Sippy but I already work in those
 
10:50 AM
@DarkAshelin It's not the question of not understanding how it works
It's the intent that matters.
 
well I've never had a case where the intent wasn't clear to me
 
Because if it's your job to refactor/make changes to my code, I want you to be able to understand why I did what I did.
 
If you write huge applications with no comments then people will hate you :D
It's not about youuuuuuuuu
 
@DarkAshelin take this for example
 
What kinds of problems I encountered that I had to write it in this particular way.
 
10:51 AM
@BasementKeyboardHero hehe
 
Anyone worked with Joomla O.o
 
I should be able to look at your code and know exactly what a method does, how it does it and what it requires/outputs without knowing the rest of your code.
That's the point of comments.
 
code repository comments are for justifying changes
 
@DarkAshelin compare it to this
 
It happened to me before where I went to refactor someone else's code, and ended up with code strikingly similar.
 
10:51 AM
I wouldn't put that into comments
 
@Sippy imo it's easy to figure that out already without comments
 
33 secs ago, by KeyboardWarrior
Anyone worked with Joomla O.o
 
Because I understood what he did, but his intent, the problems he faced, weren't clear.
 
there are no css files but there are SCSS files
How come this is possible?
 
10:52 AM
@KeyboardWarrior Enough to stay away from it :)
 
@BasementKeyboardHero exactly, those comments I find absolutely useless
 
People reading my uncommented code will take more time to understand the commented version
 
@DarkAshelin the point is you shouldn't need to figure it out
You should just be able to read the comment.
 
Can browsers render scss files directly?
 
if you use .on() then obviously you're setting an event listener. No comment should have to tell you that
 
10:52 AM
@BasementKeyboardHero This is only useful when writing code samples for newbies.
 
That's not the point.
1 min ago, by Basement Keyboard Hero
@DarkAshelin compare it to this
 
Where you really want to explain what each line does and not why it's there.
 
^ look at link
 
I did sippy
 
That's the point of code comments.
 
10:53 AM
it's what I'm commenting on
58 secs ago, by Dark Ashelin
@BasementKeyboardHero exactly, those comments I find absolutely useless
41 secs ago, by Dark Ashelin
if you use .on() then obviously you're setting an event listener. No comment should have to tell you that
 
I know what his method does and I haven't read the code.
 
That's the thing always assume the person has no idea of what this code is
 
^ aimed at @BasementKeyboardHero's 2 links
 
Those are more like sectional comments
Introducing what you're about to write
 
@BasementKeyboardHero if the person does not understand what .on() does, he should not be editing yourcode
that's ridiculous.
 
10:53 AM
Kind of pointless for like 20 lines of code, but definitely nice for larger files
 
I don't understand what it is you don't get lol
 
I should be able to take one glance at your code and know what it's doing
 
If you went to work at a new job on a codebase of 500,000 lines
And there were no documentation comments
You'd spend a month just figuring out where the fuck you are xD
 
@Sippy exactly my situation
 
@DarkAshelin If for instance you're listening to keydown and not input for a particular reason
I expect you to comment about it, yes.
 
10:54 AM
except the codebase is much larger than 500k lines
 
?!
 
and so far, not a single comment in the code has been useful to me
 
Then they're shit comments
 
just like Basement's example?
 
Check this website: http://css-tricks.com/almanac/properties/b/border-radius/
In this page, there are no css files but there are SCSS files
How come this is possible?
Can browsers render scss files directly?
 
10:55 AM
His example isn't a fantastic example of that type of commenting :P
 
@DarkAshelin For instance, in one place I new SomeObject()ed instead of injecting it
 
telling me in comment that //.on() is an event listener really isn't going to help me understand your code
 
But if that information is useless to you then you already know the codebase yo
 
In a large project, I feel like the time it takes me to learn how it works is halved just because there was one line of documentation that told me where to find the main
 
And commented exactly why I did it instead of passing it through the constructor
 
10:55 AM
And that's gonna make the comments useless to you
 
Because it wasn't possible in this particular case since x y z
 
I maintained an old site that had 1k LOC controllers with no comments, code was clear but i spent a week to find everything
 
If you don't know the codebase then they're very useful and save you a lot of time.
 
@Sippy I don't. The only troubles I have are understanding the structure of the codebase. Not the methods itself
 
It's about speed woman
 
10:56 AM
speed that you lose while typing useless comments
 
it's about taking an hour to understand a file and reading it in 10min and getting the gist of things
 
@Sippy comments like on Basement's example are very rarely useful.
 
You suck.
 
wow I am being ignored.. :|
 
if you write clear code, you don't need comments to clarify it
 
10:56 AM
> Documentation is like sex. When it's good it's really good, and when it's bad, well, it's better than nothing at all.
 
return 42; // Returns 42.
 
^
@SecondRikudo That's just not true lol
 
@Neil Very wrong
 
@DarkAshelin how much time do you think it took me to write the comments? 10 seconds ? saves me hours in the future
 
Very very wrong
 
10:57 AM
Basements example isn't a good example
But those types of comments are very very useful.
 
Misleading documentation is a 100 times worse than no documentation at all.
 
@SecondRikudo Oh? I wasn't expecting you to disagree.. weird
 
@BasementKeyboardHero I would say it saves you 0 seconds in the future because the comments are just pointing out painfully obvious things
 
@DarkAshelin the .on comment is to specify the type of events attached
 
@DarkAshelin It saves YOU no time
Cos you KNOW THE CODEEEE
 
10:57 AM
@Sippy neither for other people
 
So you know that this is where i m attaching touch events ?
 
@Neil If you refactor a function to change its return type and parameters, and don't touch the comments explaining that, you made my life (as programmer n+1) much harder.
 
//Setting variables
var foo = "bar";
 
Yeah it does! If I have to read through your entire codebase like a book then it'll take me years, if I just have to read the comments on the methods I wanna use it takes no time at all
 
@SecondRikudo So your rationale is more like this
 
10:58 AM
how is this useful in any way
 
It isn't useful at all
 
@Neil Similar, yes.
@DarkAshelin This is useful when used in conjunction with an IDE's code folding feature
 
/**
   * Instantiates the hammer js instance
   * Gets the answers and fills collisionElement
   * @method didInsertElement
   */
 
Nothing more, nothing less.
 
Those comment blocks usually tell you more.
 
10:59 AM
@Sippy I initially read that as "Instantiates the hammer js justice"
 
That's for yui
it generates docs
 
Like how Thor writes code
 
@method makes it link to it from the docs site
 
I know what it is :D
 

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