« first day (1557 days earlier)      last day (3405 days later) » 

4:00 PM
ba dum tschh
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz fmap length $ gets str - deliberately spelled out?
 
@Xeo instead of <$>? Yeah.
 
Xeo
kay
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I only see squares. What is it supposed to say?
 
Hohoho look at this scrub who can't read square
 
4:05 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit it says "linux sucks"
in the first line
 
@Puppy No, Vagrant doesn't do much with the VM, and if you run it over RDP or something then Vagrant is not even in the equation
 
I'm using a plugin for WinRM communicator
 
Xeo
> (leafe unsafePerformIO out of that
^ *leave
 
Xeo
The period inside the parens is weird, though
 
4:08 PM
@Xeo ouch
also this is a big thing
@BartekBanachewicz I was pretty excited about it too, instant addition to my .ghci file — bheklilr 3 mins ago
 
@Xeo yeah, use a semicolon if anything. otherwise replace the parenthetical with another construct (a footnote, perhaps? hnng hard on web)
 
changed to semicolon
 
@BartekBanachewicz: I don't like how you've introduced the examples
Your big "Full Headers" heading is, yes okay, rendered directly above the examples when viewing that page because of how github works and orders things.
But it's also just sitting on its own at the bottom of a Markdown file with nothing underneath it. I think it could be removed
 
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I think he'll combine that for the post itself
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit oh no it's just for the gist, they will be either linked or pasted directly on the main blog
 
4:14 PM
it's easy enough for me to run the VM with Vagrant, but I don't see how I'm supposed to make it actually do anything, especially ootb
 
> The Linux community, I hope you realize how fucking toxic and broken your “community” is after standing by silently as me and my entire family were terrorized after I criticized Linus Torvalds. I think you are cowardly and spineless and I stand behind everything I said.
 
@EtiennedeMartel lol
 
ouch
This is my statement on my experiences over the past few days. Please read if you've been following it at all. http://pastebin.com/3jAQARCy
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I didn't know either. Turned out to be harmless after I installed a font.
@BartekBanachewicz Why don't trigger warnings act as triggers?
 
because they're often used for a completely different purpose
 
4:18 PM
Er.
The triggers they warn about are not used for the purpose of triggering anything either.
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh ok. well, I get the gist of it
@R.MartinhoFernandes squares.ttf
What's all this "trigger" bullshit?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit it's the first line of the message linked in the tweet
 
Oh, right
I was asking about the first line, but didn't grok it until you said that
 
I believe there is better documentation both in general about these concepts (just wikipedia Merkle Tree, COW, ZFS and even Git) than anyone can write up adhoc for you here. If you want coaching, I'm sure there are sites for that too. — sehe 20 secs ago
 
She's not claiming to have been triggered; she's warning others that they may be triggered by what is, I agree, quite the harrowing tale
Although more generally I still don't get it
It seems that within the last few months, swathes of people across netdom have developed some sort of allergy to mentions of nasty things, which cause them to uncontrollably... something
Never heard it before 2014
 
4:21 PM
She wrote an article criticising Torvalds and has been getting shat on ever since (although she was getting shit before this afaik)
 
Maybe it's an awareness increase. That'd be good
@TheForestAndTheTrees See that's confusing too. Who the fuck supports Torvalds!?
:P
 
> On Friday night, the home addresses of every member of my immediate family were posted online. I have received literally thousands of harassing, abusive, threatening and violent messages across at least half a dozen separate sites. People speaking up in support of me had their home addresses posted online as well, ...
The only thing here to me is "What has Linus said about this?". Time for great leadership to show
 
probably nothing.
He's too dumb for that.
 
dat last line
> I invite you to get out of my sex life and to join me doing it.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I didn't get it.
 
4:23 PM
@BartekBanachewicz And you never will.
 
lol, brought this on myself
 
@BartekBanachewicz "it" refers to the the previous paragraph.
 
Both Animation class and sound class have a play function. so can they be derived from same base class ?
 
@BartekBanachewicz huh. Where does that come from. I don't that's true at all
 
4:23 PM
@Elvisjames That's a weird greeting you have there.
 
@sehe Probably called everyone an idiot
I know I would
 
(context for ignorant people)
 
@Elvisjames they could implement the same interface, but they don't necessarily have to derive from a nonabstract base
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit "The requested URL /262353 was not found on this server." impressive
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit 404
 
ok
nice talking to you
 
@sehe I think he's a prejudiced idiot FWIW.
 
@BartekBanachewicz 301
 
@Elvisjames I have to admit you're a pragmatic man
 
Timeout actually
 
4:25 PM
straight to business
 
@BartekBanachewicz I agree. But I don't think he is too dumb to treat people with the respect they deserve
 
@CatPlusPlus that was the first link. 404 was the second
it works on the third -.-
 
Good job
 
@sehe I think precisely that and he's shown numerous examples of that.
 
thanks
and I didn't mention the first version of the message that didn't even have a link in it because I forgot the : ...
 
4:26 PM
Insulting other Linux contributors for no reason is a perfect example.
 
He is not too dumb to treat people with the disrespect they don't deserve.
I think I added the right amount of negatives.
 
I don't think you didn't but I can't really untell for uncertain because I have no fucking lack of clue what you didn't just not say
 
@BartekBanachewicz We see different people then. I know I read / listened to a lot of it and if you pay close attention to what he actually says, there's never any disrepect. Just the realization "I don't have to deal with you".
On occasion he even spells out that he realizes much of this is /just/ personal preferences.
That would make him ... selfish like the rest of us.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I find it unreadable.
 
@Puppy That's what I said.
 
In fact, I think the fact that he is who he is today is testament to the fact that he's enormously principled. Otherwise, he'd be in Barbados driving a Lambourgini etc. etc.
> for no reason (cough)
> is a perfect example.
 
@BartekBanachewicz [citation needed]
 
Yeah. Of sloppy rhetorics
 
Elvisjames is a man displaced in time
 
4:29 PM
 
Elvisjames is not bound by the same laws of temporal causality as are the rest of us
 
He is unfixed. Unconstrained. Unviolated.
He is .... Elvis James Presley, Lounging since 1952
 
@BartekBanachewicz hahahaha. So that's it? The peak of doom? Mr. Evil? Is that the worst?
 
IN THE BUILDING
 
4:30 PM
that's just a guy who knows how to express himself
 
@BartekBanachewicz I think I can dig up a lot more dirt about you and you're not even famous
 
@sehe Just imagine what would happen if he insulted Intel GPUs!
 
tl;dr: why the fuck did you not say hi hy until after the conversation? lol
 
@BartekBanachewicz For the record, that finger was metaphorically pointed at NVidia.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I know
 
4:31 PM
Who are basically a bunch of assholes, at least when it comes to Linux support.
I wouldn't have used the middle finger in his position, but a few well chosen swear words, probably.
 
Unfortunately it's now also pointed at me
 
@sehe Which would make me an even more prejudiced and idiotic idiot than him. Doesn't change the fact of who he is
 
@EtiennedeMartel Hard to encode sound into a PNG
@BartekBanachewicz bigot
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Reminds me of a presentation on game audio at MIGS where the guy said "There is no screenshot for sound".
 
4:32 PM
@sehe FWIW, that would be only useful for an ad hominem argument. But no, it wouldn't be too hard. Quite recent even.
 
> Bigotry is a state of mind where a person strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc.[1] Some examples include personal beliefs, race, religion, national origin, gender, disability, sexual orientation, socioeconomic status, or other group characteristics.\
sounds like me alright
 
an adidas runinthem argument
@BartekBanachewicz that's a bit of a misdefinition but I must concede it's become the common meaning in recent years
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes FWIW I went back there and apologized, and I don't consider that incident an appropriate reaction on my part by any means.
 
bigotry is supposed to require a stubborn refusal to accept that your own dislike is unfair and to consider changing your mind
doesn't count trolling, of course
or hyperbole
but e.g. religious people who literally cannot comprehend that they might be wrong, and hate non-religious people for disagreeing with them, are bigoted
it works every which way really
anyway
 
which incident?
 
4:35 PM
what?
 
I feel like I'm missing something here
 
Yes, you're missing the fact that you're replying to something that nobody said?
o.O
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol, you're so plonked.
This time it was the plonkee that got confused, not the plonker.
Jan 16 at 13:01, by R. Martinho Fernandes
If you're still spewing abuse when I find my way back, I'll kick you
He got a suspension for it, so it's not all in the transcript anymore.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Not your fault, you're Polish. You were born with the bigoted genes.
2
 
Xeo
4:39 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Oh look, the world is fucked up. Where's the planetary bomb again?
 
@Xeo we are the bomb
and with that deep statement I'll leave you and off I am to the LAN Party
wish me careful aim and cooperating teammates
 
and infinite deaths
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'll read it when I get home, maybe.
I must admit that generally speaking, not Lounging during work seems to be an effective drama shield
 
You still work?
I thought you retired
 
4:43 PM
@Elvisjames No, I'm the one who retired. Unfortunately, those tires are pretty much worn out, so I'll probably have to re-tire my bicycle again soon.
 
So I haven't been around in a while. Had a question recently about ref-qualified member functions, and I thought of you guys.
I was planning on writing a proposal to change operator[] in map and the like to return a T instead of a T& when called from an rvalue to prevent dangling references. And I wanted to know why it was a bad idea before putting forth the effort.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I was implying a proper argument: it's cheap to wave a picture of a person in a weak moment and use it to discredit the person's character.
@sehe Ugh. I should go home. That was meant to be "creative"
 
@OmnipotentEntity You could theoretically break existing code that way.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes .... oh.
@R.MartinhoFernandes was it?
@EtiennedeMartel so tempted to flag that for racism
ur a cist
 
@Puppy, from overloads? Or some other mechanism?
 
4:49 PM
also it's a bad idea because then you'd have to interact with the Committee.
 
@OmnipotentEntity it's nice to be remembered for something other than trolling and abuse, I guess
 
@OmnipotentEntity In theory, the user could also do something like f(const T& ref) { assert(&ref == other_state); }
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh, feck. no plonks involved I just missed Bartek's msg ;p
@R.MartinhoFernandes no wait this is what you meant
i'll just shut up now
@OmnipotentEntity What's the point of it? Why would you create a temporary map only to extract a value from it
 
@BartekBanachewicz Does "being people" qualify
 
@sehe Nice OpenMP post.
 
4:52 PM
also, and I assure you this is true, people will bitch and whine about the performance of the move.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit, mostly laziness, "I have a function that returns a map, but I only need to know the outputted value for this key." auto myVal = getMap()["key"]; boom.
oh lord Puppy :(
 
maps and move-only things don't work well due to reasons other than just that.
 
@OmnipotentEntity mm
@OmnipotentEntity well, you're already copying into myVal there, no?
(I forget the rules of auto)
 
yes, actually.
sorry
 
(but I thought the ref would be dropped)
haha
 
4:54 PM
refs are dropped.
 
I actually ran into this problem because I had a templated type Maybe
same sort of idea except it was returning a Maybe<T&> so I had to adjust it to return a Maybe<T> if it was a &&
 
maybe a function call that takes a const& for speed? It's not that big of a deal though
 
Maybe<T> would be better; move it if you have to
when I see refs in template params I puke a bit
 
4:57 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit tsk tsk, you didn't watch Meyers' presentation on auto type deduction rules?
i am disappoint
 
I don't watch video lectures
and, frankly, I haven't read much about auto either
any language feature that requires you to read five articles and watch three hour-long lectures before you can use it safely is not worth using at all
 
Xeo
yay, home
 
@OmnipotentEntity That's not actually correct. It should be a Maybe<T>&&, some of the time.
 
Xeo
@Puppy WHAT
Returning an rvalue ref is almost always wrong, the only valid exceptions are the implementations of std::move / std::forward, and perfect forwarders in general
 
@Puppy, it was a map class function that returned a Maybe<T&> set to none if the key doesn't exist (rather than throwing an exception.) To reduce accesses (once for contains once for get), and to avoid using iterators (because they're a bit cumbersome)
 
5:01 PM
Boody hell, it's cold back 'ere. Both my computer and car took three attempts to start. I think the spinners were a bit cold and the drivers got stuck.
 
which is exactly what unordered_map::operator[] should do.
it should forward, perfectly, the value category of the map.
which you can't because && doesn't tell you.
 
@MartinJames you got stuck in your car? :D
 
@Puppy did you mean Maybe<T&&> perhaps?
 
@AndyProwl Maybe.
 
Xeo
@AndyProwl Yeah, I was just thinking that
 
5:02 PM
not sure.
 
Xeo
I can't think of any situation where Something<T>&& (written out like that) would be a correct return type.
Because it's highly likely to be a dangling reference
 
@Xeo When the lvalue return is Something<T>&
 
well, the map does not hold Maybes, so the && you'd return would be bound to a local object
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It's so cold that I expect to be stuck outside my car later. Mebbe I can spray something on the door seals.
 
I may have confused Maybe<T>&& and Maybe<T&&>.
 
Xeo
5:04 PM
@Puppy Oh yeah. I have to refine that somehow - "when you don't store a Something<T>", I guess
 
The map is storing Ts
 
which is the case for map::operator[].
 
no, his map is not storing Something<T>
 
returning Maybe<T&> if lvalue and Maybe<T> if rvalue.
 
(where Maybe == Something)
 
5:04 PM
right, except if the map is a map&&, you should return a Maybe<T&&>.
and if it's a map, you should return a Maybe<T>
which && vs & overloading does not give you the power to do.
 
Xeo
@Puppy Err
 
so it's impossible to get this aspect correct.
 
Xeo
Oh wait, okay
 
@Puppy what do you mean by "if it's a map"? If it's an lvalue?
 
erm Puppy, that won't work, consider:
if (auto value = std::move(map).maybe("key")) { do something with value; }
auto type deduces to Maybe<T&&>
which results in the same dangling reference problem as before
 
Xeo
5:06 PM
What Puppy is saying: To be perfectly correct, you need to distinguish three cases - lvalue (T&), prvalue (T), and xvalue (T&&). However, C++ only allows you to distinguish between lvalue and rvalue. You have no way to properly distinguish prvalue and xvalue.
 
yep.
 
why do you need to distinguish between prvalue and xvalue?
to rule out dangliness?
 
Xeo
Efficiency, actually
To not have a redundant move if you don't need it
 
user1804599
Fuck isomorphisms.
 
I don't understand. What's the problem with returning Maybe<T&&> for both prvalues and xvalues?
 
Xeo
5:08 PM
@AndyProwl Oh, I thought you meant the other way around
That case has dangling references for prvalues, yeah
It's fine to go from xvalue -> prvalue, but not prvalue -> xvalue
(i.e., T&& -> T is fine, T -> T&& is not)
 
@Xeo I was actually thinking of move-only types being moved in certain circumstances, for example map.insert(make_pair(key, std::move(unique_ptr)));
 
Xeo
@Puppy emplaaaaace
 
I'm fairly certain that you can encounter the same problem there.
 
Xeo
Not quite sure what problem you mean, though
 
I mean that in some circumstances, the ptr can be moved from even if the insert was not successful.
 
5:10 PM
@Xeo Hm, I see. But you're probably not supposed to keep references into an xvalue after it has been casted to an rvalue anyway, no?
AFAIK emplace() won't move if the insertion is not successful
ah no wait
 
I would be surprised if it did.
 
I think it does
 
right, but what I'm saying is, you can end up with distinct semantics in these cases
 
emplace first creates the node for comparison
 
it's not correct to simply pass all values as T&& all the time.
 
5:12 PM
@Puppy yeah I think I see what you mean
emplacement for maps behaves in a funny way
 
Wide can perform this distinction correctly, but C++ can't.
 
@OmnipotentEntity yeah
@Puppy how's work on Wide going?
 
somewhat slowly.
work to do
 
understandable
 
5:15 PM
and I'm somewhat pissed off at it because it's been a while since I got a payoff for all the work I've put in over the last ~4months or so
 
@mostafa8026 That's a weird way to say "hi".
 
I of course downvoted him
 
user1804599
Whokay. Regex literals. How to lex.
 
lol regexes
and lol again regex literals.
 
user1804599
I'm not a fan of putting them between slashes.
 
user1804599
5:18 PM
I thought of some form of quasiquotation.
 
it's rare that I say this, but the raw string approach taken by C++ (and I believe C# and Python both are very similar) is much superior to idiotic regex literals.
 
Xeo
1 message moved to bin
Don't do that.
 
user1804599
I currently only have raw string literals. XD
 
user1804599
I haven't implemented escapes yet.
 
then you have no need for regex literals
 
user1804599
5:20 PM
And there is no way to have " in a string literal. :P
 
Xeo
@Puppy Hey, they allow nice highlighting at least! :P
 
user1804599
So do regexen in string literals.
 
Xeo
(It's still a stupid thing, because you can't extend them from a library POV)
 
user1804599
The editor can trivially detect them.
 
Xeo
@рытфолд Maybe it's not supposed to be a regex?
 
user1804599
5:21 PM
Then you're out of luck.
 
Xeo
lol
 
user1804599
It's like string interpolation on steroids.
 
user1804599
Fun for SQL and stuff, and possibly for regular expressions as well.
 
I think you're missing "injection attacks" in there somewhere.
 
user1804599
5:24 PM
Yes, that's one thing they prevent.
 
@рытфолд Their support for substitutions has been the basis of a whole lot of injection attacks. You can argue that it's a poor workman who blames his tools for poor results--but a large part of that really comes back to the fact that a good workman will choose the best tools available for the job--and that eliminates quasi-literals in many (most?) cases.
 
imma get a tiling WM (i3 for starters) on my noobuntu VM to see if I like it
 
user1804599
i3 is good.
 
@AlexM. Why not xmonad? Everybody has to love it, it is Haskell based, right?
 
0
Q: copy constructor - am i setting my std::strings correct

user249806My question is a basic one. Since std::strings are pointers am i handling them correctly in my copy constructor? class json{ private: std::string _objectContents; std::string _regComments; bool _isJson; int numElements; public: ...

 
5:36 PM
Xmonad documentation and layouting sucks
 
@wilx I wanted to get that but Cat recommended i3
 
> Since std::strings are pointers
 
and then I saw that i3 showed tutorial videos
which are nice
I got the idea from their first video
 
user1804599
I use i3 at work.
 
user1804599
It's awesome.
 
5:39 PM
> Reason: nx-all is not an officially supported package anymore.use X2Go instead
Officially supported my ass.
The guide for x2go has fuck all explanation of anything.
The guide for nx-all is detailed and very long.
 
What'd you expect
 
This is why Arch sucks.
Their philosophy even applies to the fucking wiki.
 
You mean it breaks on monthly basis?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes "Officially supported" doesn't require explanation--only the words "officially supported."
@CatPlusPlus To break on a monthly basis, there would have to be some point in time each month when it wasn't broken (which seems doubtful in this case).
 
@JerryCoffin It happens sometimes
It might be birthday paradox
 
5:48 PM
@sehe Gee, I get you.
Fuck NX.
 
@CatPlusPlus So has there ever been a time when x2go was working and well documented?
 
Oh, no, I was talking about Arch as a whole
 
@рытфолд Is it just me, or is implementing immutable binary search trees a major pain in the butt? I haven't even come to the balancing part yet :(
 
user1804599
It's not very hard.
 
user1804599
Just don't do it in Java. :P
 
user1804599
5:51 PM
> @array .= sort; # calls the `sort` method and assigns the result back
 
user1804599
neat
 
@рытфолд But I need those 5 cases, right?
 
user1804599
No.
 
Well, how would you do it?
 
user1804599
data BST a = Tree (BST a) a (BST a) | Leaf
 
user1804599
5:54 PM
Or data BST a = Tree (Maybe (BST a)) a (Maybe (BST a)).
 
Is there a way to make it so the thing at the beginning of a script Perl file (#!usr/bin/perl) works for both windows and linux?
 
@FredOverflow WTF is a left tree?
@рытфолд Oh gosh. Is that Ruby?
 
user1804599
Perl 6.
 
user1804599
LiveScript has something very similar.
 
leftist tree?
 
user1804599
5:55 PM
@Jefffrey No. Windows has no respect for shebangs.
 
In computer science, a leftist tree or leftist heap is a priority queue implemented with a variant of a binary heap. Every node has an s-value which is the distance to the nearest leaf. In contrast to a binary heap, a leftist tree attempts to be very unbalanced. In addition to the heap property, leftist trees are maintained so the right descendant of each node has the lower s-value. The height-biased leftist tree was invented by Clark Allan Crane. The name comes from the fact that the left subtree is usually taller than the right subtree. When inserting a new node into a tree, a new one-node tree...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's a tree with a left child but no right child.
 
That sounds stupid.
 
@рытфолд oh, of course!
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow Did you have a bad day today?
 
5:57 PM
You don't even need the leafs.
A single node type can handle all them.
 
user1804599
Yeah.
 

« first day (1557 days earlier)      last day (3405 days later) »