« first day (1538 days earlier)      last day (3415 days later) » 

8:01 PM
That has nothing to do with america
 
user1804599
Stop trying to make me stop making fun of the USA.
 
can't load page
 
i'm a really slow thinker...how can I speed up my thinking? as in what worked for you guys?
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
@DonLarynx Download more brain
 
8:03 PM
@DonLarynx you can't sorry
 
ah it just takes forever
 
hard drugs of course
 
oh hey
 
@ScarletAmaranth hard drugs make me not think
 
happy new year johanson
 
8:04 PM
hellew
 
sounds like exactly what she was doing
 
@Puppy lol
 
> she
Holy jesus I love water right now
 
user1804599
@Puppy who did what?
 
user1804599
I'm so confused.
 
8:08 PM
Just accept the confusion. After a while, it won't bother you anymore.
 
but are you pawnguy?
 
ME!! ???
 
@MartinJames The more you expose yourself to the confusion, the more it will haunt you as well
 
( Thu-20:10:48 ) ( tomalak ) << (false ? 5u : -1);
( Thu-20:10:48 ) ( geordi ) 4294967295
Curse you greatly, C++
 
lol
 
8:11 PM
@ScarletAmaranth where the heck have you been??
 
Since when did people get so flag-happy in the lounge?
 
That was me, sorry.
 
@Mysticial I know :(
 
2015 is a palindrome in binary: 11111011111
 
Who ever is flagging all these harmless messages, I want you do know that I will not hesitate to instantly cast an invalidate vote on your annoying flags.
4
 
8:13 PM
I said I'm sorry.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit you see, there's this lady in my life now :)
 
You have to forgive me.
because I have apologised
@ScarletAmaranth is her name scarlet?
 
@ScarletAmaranth I've had to watch The Mentalist S7 alone
you weren't even here when I found out there would be a The Mentalist S7, IIRC
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit yeah I was indeed! :) I have seen only the first episode of it so far actually; I've been really busy
 
@Jefffrey eggs contain cysteine, and lots of it. cysteine is known to break down the acetaldehyde (byproduct of alcohol) that is toxic. I ate 5 eggs today.
 
8:15 PM
@ScarletAmaranth Great - get her an SO account and invite her to the Lounge.
..unless she's already in here... ?
 
user1804599
Android is so so bad.
 
@DonLarynx If you had eaten the 5 eggs raw after getting out of the bar/party/whatever last night, you would have thrown up violently and so avoided much of the toxic by-products.
 
@MartinJames I did not drink today.
To clarify: eat the eggs for breakfast. there is not enough acetaldehyde in your system to cause hungover symptoms only hours after drinking.
 
@DonLarynx Oh - ratted before midnight, got it.
 
Wait, is scarlet a she?
 
8:20 PM
@rightføld You prefer iOS?
 
rule #12: Don't engage in PC vs Mac vs Linux arguments
 
I'm not.
I was asking about his preference.
 
I know you
I know where you are going with that.
 
@Mysticial What got flagged?
 
Hehe. But really, I wasn't going there.
 
user1804599
8:22 PM
@Nooble I prefer Gentoo.
 
@rightføld On mobile?
 
user1804599
lolmobile
 
user1804599
Something with only a contact list, calling and SMS would be great.
 
and whatsapp
and telegram
and some games
 
user1804599
lol
 
8:25 PM
And Google Play
 
Fuck android, fuck Windows Phone, and in particular, fuck iOS
 
@rightføld you can buy a "smart" phone and just use those features, no?
 
@Borgleader Something like: "Fuck you C++ greatly"
 
Fuck mobile OSes in general
 
heard tablets are doing bad on the market
 
8:26 PM
@Mysticial "in the arse"
 
something about people not buying them as often as required
 
@AlexM. They are?
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey Why would I buy a smartphone then?
 
iPad 2 is able to run the latest iOS decently and is 3+ years old
 
user1804599
That's like buying a truck when you need a bicycle.
 
8:27 PM
@rightføld buy nokias then
 
lots of iPad 2 owners don't feel like upgrading
 
@rightføld So you can give companies money, why else?
 
etc. etc.
 
user1804599
Nokia doesn't exist anymore.
2
 
lol
 
8:27 PM
Well that's sadly true.
 
user1804599
I liked my Sony Ericsson from 2005 but they don't make those anymore. :(
 
hybrid tablets seem to be the alternative that might be doing better
and I'm inclined to agree
 
I guess keeping that Nokia E51 was a smart move after all.
 
after all they're small touchscreen laptops
 
classic hypster
 
8:29 PM
Android is harder to develop on than even Windows
 
@AlexM. It's a good concept, especially Surface, but I'm not willing to give up a decent keyboard.
 
I have a big phone and a small laptop. I don't need anything in between. Apart from anything else, it would be yet another thing to charge up, and I'm running out of USB and mains charger connections.
 
@rightføld What? Yes it does.
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
twas this one
 
user1804599
8:29 PM
It was great.
 
> Category Theory is sort of neat, but ultimately useless. “Design Patterns” are like Category Theory. They group together some common themes, but are ultimately useless.
 
Although a small laptop will do in most situations.
 
> If you are a real “programmer” as you claim to be, than you are using them without even knowing. I bet you used a singleton at least once in your sorry ass “career”. And yes, that’s a design pattern you morron!
horrible comment
 
> Morron
 
8:32 PM
> Vlad: you are fucked up retard!! Design patterns are at most an obvious banality designed to act as a layer of jargon meant to raise the level of entry into crappy corporate “IT” jobs.
...man that escalated quickly
 
is that VladFromMoscow?
 
@FredOverflow dat comments
too late
@AlexM. nah he didn't accuse anyone of trolling
 
@AlexM. lol beat me to it:)
 
Ell
> Category Theory is sort of neat, but ultimately useless
really? o.O
 
> Another hilarious thing about design patterns is that they encourage developers to repeat themselves.

Whenever you have a recurring “pattern” in your code, you’re supposed to factor that out into a method or subroutine or whatever.

But in the case of “design” patterns, they encourage you to do the same thing over and over. It’s cut and paste for the ADD generation.

It’s fricking hilarious.
wat
 
8:34 PM
oh my god
who is this idiot
 
@Jefffrey Well, there is no such thing as a "Standard Design Patterns Library" or whatever is what he means, I guess.
 
> Design patterns sure get too much hype during interviews but being all against them is just as stupid as overusing them.
Just know the tool and use it when useful.
 
user1804599
The only nice DP is Double Penetration.
 
there's someone saying what I would say
 
8:34 PM
Hmm.. all my tag captions seem to have gone to a white font on a white backround. I suspect I may have to restart FF soon:(
 
just be at peace with the universe
 
I agree that design patterns aren't a holy grail and you should think for yourself instead of trying to shoehorn them everywhere in your code
but saying they're completely useless is just as dumb
 
@MartinJames You never restart FF?
 
@Nooble Well not often, no. This session has been up since well before Christmas.
 
you guys use your computers in weird ways
 
I restart my computer quite often.
 
Dr. Strangelambda: How I learned to stop Design Patterns and love HOFs
 
> Effectively calls rdbuf()->close(). If an error occurs during operation, setstate(failbit) is called.
 
@Nooble My computer restarts itself on patch-Tuesdays and after the critical security updates.
 
Not sure why you expected that to pass
 
user1804599
8:39 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit that's what you get when you have non-throwing APIs.
 
I can't believe steam market is down on the final day of the sale.
 
Ell
@Borgleader see !
 
@rightføld OK, why don't the streams throw?
 
@MartinJames That's akin to asking why they make practically every other design mistake in the book
 
user1804599
8:40 PM
@MartinJames No idea, but probably because they were either designed by a fool or because they are older than exceptions.
 
Orite..
 
@MartinJames: streams generally don't throw because all of the errors are expected and not exceptional.
 
@Ell I know, but if you look at what I pasted the before, the failbit is only set if the operation fails. So unless the close fails !ofs will be false (i.e. !true)
 
which is tremendously silly.
 
@rightføld IIRC, Java has the same issue.
 
8:42 PM
hey Dietmar, did you actually design iostreams yourself?
 
something wrong coming from a file is the norm rather than the exception.
 
What's noexcept actually useful for again?
 
@Borgleader Because intuition says !!ofs should be false for a closed stream
 
user1804599
@MartinJames FileInputStream constructor throws.
 
@DietmarKühl Well.... no.
 
8:42 PM
Except for documentation of course.
 
@DietmarKühl That does not justify all the bugs caused by forcing programs to repeat error checking at every call site.
"exceptions are for exceptional situations" is bullshit.
 
Anyway, problem solved. It caused a rather strange bug for me.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit My intuition is !stream is only true when something went wrong. A successful close operation is not wrong.
 
@Puppy: no, I didn't. The original stream design we are still is done by Jerry Schwartz.
 
@Borgleader Doesn't matter. I can't use the stream for output operations, so it should convert to false.
 
Ell
8:43 PM
@Borgleader Oh right yeah my bad. Still, this shouldn't assert coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/20a11565b904ef59
 
... and if you want exceptions you can enable exceptions for streams: just set the exceptions mask.
 
Ell
@LightnessRacesinOrbit why?
 
If I try to open an existing file, and it fails to open, I call that exceptional.
 
@Ell Because I can't use the stream for output operations.
 
I certainly could do that.
 
Ell
8:44 PM
You should use good() if you want to check if you can do io operations on it
fail() checks if failure has occurred
 
but it's more than a little annoying to have to remember to set it every time and deal with all the bugs written by people who didn't know about that.
 
@Ell ORLY
you have to do an explicit check for open(); there's no other way
 
Ell
@LightnessRacesinOrbit yeah this is wtf
I guess cppreference could be wrong
or maybe I'm interpreting it incorrectly
hmm.
After rereading it's kind of conflicting
 
to be fair apparently since C++11 "Returns true if the stream has no errors and is ready for I/O operations. Specifically, returns !fail()."
 
Ell
> checks if no error has occurred i.e. I/O operations are available
 
8:45 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit: The badbit is set by IO operations. Since you do not have any IO op between the assert and the .close() the badbit is not set.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You mean is_open() ?
 
I don't really see how the latter portion of the paragraph reflects the former, but there we go
@VáclavZeman Yes, I understand that
I'm saying it's stupid
 
@MartinJames: really? I consider that to be expected. After all, the progrom gets run outside my control where I can make sure the files, indeed, exist (and if I'm in charge of making sure it will fail anyway).
 
@Borgleader IOW std::optional<std::better_iostream>
 
@DietmarKühl My users pick files using a folder/file view. They cannot pick a file that does not exist.
 
8:47 PM
@MartinJames It could be deleted after the file picker has opened but before they clicked "OK". Technically :P
 
so you work on a non-concurrent system where only your program is running and the file can't disappear? (sure, should be rare)
 
@Borgleader Yeah - then I'm shagged.
 
... but is less rare on network drives, for example.
 
Doing a "file exists" check is wrong in 99% of cases.
 
the exceptionality of the event is irrelevant as to whether an exception should be employed
 
8:49 PM
also, you got the option to get exception if you feel that's the right thing to do: stream.exceptions(std::ios_base::failbit | std::ios_base::badbit)
 
user1804599
Ask forgiveness, not permission.
 
user1804599
Asking for permission is also duplication, since the check is already done by the routine you're calling.
 
Yeah - exception should be the default.
 
It is a choice of defaults and obviously I do agree with this choice of default.
 
I highly disagree
 
user1804599
8:50 PM
(And in the case of file opening it's atomic.)
 
Ell
I'm not sure why silent failure is the default o.O
 
@Puppy surprise surprise
 
@Puppy wait what?
 
@Ell It would be OK on a submarine.
 
"exceptions are for exceptional situations"- often stated, never justified, and almost always used to justify terrible error codes.
 
8:51 PM
input errors are bound to be rather common where exceptions are not designed to be.
 
Fuck me, it IS a new year. I'm agreeing with puppy.
 
@Puppy: for frequent failures exceptions are slower than error codes.
 
oh noes, the slowers!
who gives a shit about that?
 
ooh, only the game's folder itself takes 810MB
 
Ell
@DietmarKühl To be honest, I'd rather fail slowly than quickly :P
 
8:52 PM
bitbucket says the repo takes Size 288.8 MB
 
what I care about is all the bugs caused by people who forget to check every single error code of every function.
 
Exceptions are for exceptional cases is justified by readability - if something is expected to fail then writing code that hides that hides how the code works - if failing is truly an exceptional case then throwing an exception states that. It's about readability mostly.
 
I should be fine even with tons more assets
 
@Ell: well, change your settings.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum If by "readability" you mean "The programmer must litter his functions with duplicated error-checking code at every possible place and if he doesn't, failure is silently ignored, usually causing horrible bugs"?
 
8:53 PM
@Puppy there are languages that don't offer exceptions, in C++ I often see exceptions overused but they are also a very valuable tool in scenarios.
 
user1804599
In C++ I often see exceptions underused.
 
@AlexM. You're making a grid-based game right?
 
@Puppy no I mean "sometimes a function can't return anything meaningful but it can indicate an error and propagate that to some place that can do something meaningful about it".
 
I don't give a shit if an exception unwind is slow. When it's caught, the message is gonna be queued to a logger - takes ages/cycles anyway.
 
@Nooble yep
 
8:54 PM
Link :D?
 
what to?
 
Game
 
There is a case against exceptions - but I don't like code littering when there is nothing the littered code can do about it.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yes, and that propagation should be automated, instead of the programmer manually remembering to propagate at every single call site.
 
Or Unity files
 
8:54 PM
another reason is that I/O errors typically can and need to be handled locally while exceptions tend to separate the error site from the handling site.
 
I'll post a link once the level is done
 
Alright :)
 
I'm certainly not going to release the repo in any way
 
the error site is not in the calling function, it's in the I/O function implementation.
 
most of the assets are paid
god knows what license they come with
 
8:55 PM
When I use IO stream, I set the exceptions mask to badbit only.
 
user1804599
@DietmarKühl not really
 
@AlexM. how much did you pay them?
 
something like 10 eur for the outside village assets
10 eur for the inside assets
2 eur for the puppy
 
user1804599
I/O errors are rarely handleable and you often handle them at the bottom of the callstack.
 
that's about it
 
user1804599
8:56 PM
And that's what exceptions are extremely useful for.
 
@Puppy yes, but sometimes a file failing to open or a file not existing is a valid state for the app "if the file could not be opened create a temp file" or "if a file doesn't exist - prompt the user" - in these cases you usually don't want automatic propagation you want explicit handling of the case.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Which is perfectly possible with exceptions.
it's just highly unusual, which is why exceptions are great- the unusual cases are highlighted and the usual cases are silent.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum That goes in a catch with more local scope.
 
@rightføld That's "why node.js function(error,result) callbacks are horrible" in a single line :D
 
I want to make it so that when you visit a house it opens up a semi-static inside view like in might & magic
 
user1804599
8:57 PM
> "Use promises!"
 
Ell
@BenjaminGruenbaum then you can just swallow the exception, right?
 
user1804599
> "Oh wait JavaScript promise libraries are also terrible!"
 
@MartinJames yes, but that's less clear to the reader.
 
^ but the difference is, I want the user to be able to interact with the things inside
 
8:57 PM
whereas with error codes, the common cases are highlighted and the uncommon cases that cause horrendous bugs are silent.
 
@rightføld: I don't argue about the usefulness of exceptions. All I'm saying iis that I think I/O errors (at the stream-level) are reasonably not using exceptions by default.
 
e.g. if he sees a chest, he can open it
sorta like in hidden object games
 
user1804599
I almost never handle exceptions.
 
@rightføld I use promises, also there are decent JavaScript promise libraries - but yeah lots of terrible ones.
 
Exceptions? In my JavaScript?
 
8:58 PM
... and I don't care about users misusing interfaces because they can't be bothered to read the documentation: if they don't they will just suffer from errors in a different way.
 
@Ell yes, you can do lots of strange things.
 
user1804599
@BenjaminGruenbaum Which ones are decent?
 
user1804599
A decent one would be nice.
 
Ell
@BenjaminGruenbaum Why is that a strange thing?
Well, it's a strange thing that it's a valid state for a file to fail to open :L
 
user1804599
All libraries I found mix map and flatMap in some retarded way.
 
8:59 PM
@rightføld that's just how promises are in JS - they all handle assimilation the same way (by recursively unwrapping).
@rightføld bluebird, they're about 10 times as fast as native promises, automatically detect unhandled rejections and propagate.
 
user1804599
That's extremely retarded.
 
user1804599
It makes it impossible to write any generic code using promises.
 
I'm taking exception to all this error-handling and throwing myself in the shower.
 
@rightføld Why?
 

« first day (1538 days earlier)      last day (3415 days later) »