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fge
10:00 PM
@Bohemian if talking about throwing-lambdas, 0.3.0 is on maven
It works pretty well
But, well, I'm not fully satisfied with the design... But that's my "I want to do it perfectly" side talking here
Other than that it's fully tested and I use it to great effect
 
@ItachiUchiha lol
@fge nulls are horrible :D
I don't think I've written code that utilizes nulls in the past year or so.
 
fge
@BenjaminGruenbaum I am in a lenient mood tonight so I'll let this one slip :p
 
@fge but it's true - you don't have to disagree with everything :P
Nulls are horrible, had Java been designed today there wouldn't be any nulls in the language.
 
fge
@BenjaminGruenbaum as to the code I have written in the last few years dealing with nulls, it is: Preconditions.checkNotNull(theArg, "get lost") or Objects.requireNonNull(theArg, "getLost") :p
 
They're just baggage from earlier versions and C at this point.
 
10:05 PM
@fge I'm gonna take this up again tomorrow, thanks for your help
 
fge
@BenjaminGruenbaum not so sure about that
 
@fge nulls are a billion dollar mistake :D They just throw safety outside of the window.
The fact you have to write those checks and guard against nulls in places is incredibly stupid.
 
fge
Or... You can be a grown up child and deal with them; they are now part of the landscape so deal with it when your language acknowledges their existence
That is all there is to it
 
Not to mention code that has to be null aware
@fge your argument against "nulls suck" is they're in the language?
 
fge
Nothing more and certainly nothing less than that
 
10:07 PM
They rob your code from type safety.
 
fge
@BenjaminGruenbaum my argument against "null sucks" is that it's a CS theory wanker at this point, that is all
It exists, it's there, deal with it, full stop
 
@fge no, it's that you only know Java and C and you think the world stops there :D
 
fge
I do not only know C and Java
I also know perl and bash
 
A year ago Java didn't even have lambdas, it still doesn't have closures, or variable type inference, or generators, or a ton of stuff.
 
fge
And some python (which has nil)
 
10:09 PM
Haha, Perl, that's horrible :D
@fge just because "cool language X" does something doesn't make it a good idea. Also - python is not statically typed - also you mean None which is different but meh.
You're confusing it with Ruby or ObjectiveC probably.
 
fge
Honestly, I don't give a damn; I learn to deal with those "lacks", some of which are not even lacks to me since I don't even know about them. And so far I miss none of them. QED
 
Lol, that's the farthest thing from QED you could have.
 
fge
And a generator as a language concept? That's a joke
Look at Supplier
Closures? Lambdas can be closures
Done
 
@fge lol, you've got to be kidding me.
@fge no, they really can't.
 
fge
No, that's not a joke, and yes, lambdas can be closures, since they can capture arguments out of the context
 
10:12 PM
Also, generators provide syntax support - not sure how suppliers are even related. Just the fact something can act as an iterable doesn't mean the language has generators.
 
fge
(which makes them far less efficient than if they don't but that's not a concern for CS theorists, right? It is a concern for "casual", run-of-the-mill developers however)
 
@fge no, they can just capture final stuff.
 
fge
@BenjaminGruenbaum no, effectively final, and that makes a huge difference
As to syntax support for generators I couldn't care less
 
@fge your argument is because I actually understand what code is from a theoretical point of view I don't understand the practice? Lol.
You couldn't care less because you don't understand generators.
 
fge
If anything, all generator syntax I have seen so far makes things more obfuscated than what they really need to be
 
10:13 PM
You just thought they were suppliers, that's absurd.
 
fge
No that's not
 
@fge yup, pretty sure you don't understand them now :D
 
fge
But we won't agree on that, so let's drop it
I think I understand far more than you think, except that I reason at a very low level -- the machine
 
There is no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about.
@fge dude I've build CPUs and VMs I think I'm fine with "the machine".
You just don't like acknowledging there's stuff you don't understand and you don't like acknowledging there's bad stuff in Java :D
 
fge
So why do you insist on "null sucks" then? You know it's part of the landscape, right?
 
10:15 PM
It's not part of the landscape - I coded a month and a half in Swift and got along just fine without nulls, it's quite simple really - stuff can't be null - it has to be initialized when you access it.
 
fge
I have never said that Java didn't have bad stuff; I simply say that I can deal with them just fine 100 - epsilon % of the time, and that its good stuff amply makes up for its deficiencies
 
Swift is certainly no "esoteric language", but there are lots of newer languages without nulls.
 
fge
Well, deal with it -- in all the opcodes of the JVM, there is... Yes... ifnull
 
@fge just because you can build software with tools doesn't make them good. When all you have is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail.
 
fge
And that is an opcode
It's not even the case at the CPU level
 
10:17 PM
You do realize that Swift is one of the fastest programming languages out there right? That it's an un GC'd language that's built to outperform C in benchmarks, right?
 
fge
@BenjaminGruenbaum that argument is totally irrelevant; if it were that relevant then all the packages that I have written so far would be bad only for one reason: because they are in Java and Java has null?
Come on
Get a life
 
@fge of course it is relevant - null is a big deficiency - it's OK to acknowledge that.
Wanna know who called null a billion dollar mistake?
 
fge
It is a theoretical deficiency
People have learnt to deal with it for years
For instance, me
 
> I call it my billion-dollar mistake. It was the invention of the null reference in 1965. ... This has led to innumerable errors, vulnerabilities, and system crashes, which have probably caused a billion dollars of pain and damage in the last forty years.
That's Tony Hoare, the guy who invented nulls.
 
fge
And no need to remind me who coined that, I know
That is irrelevant
Hint: we all use TCP to communicate
Network protocol pundits can point out bazillions of flaws with it
 
10:20 PM
It's not a theoretical deficiency - it's one that caused billions of dollars of damages in software errors.
 
fge
Yet what do we use? TCP
 
That doesn't mean we can't criticize TCP
It's ok to acknowledge we're using flawed tools and to strive to improve them.
 
fge
@BenjaminGruenbaum only because programmers were not disciplined enough; but programmers are a species, you know, they evolve; and with time they learn to deal with oddities
And null is one such oddity
 
@fge "only because programmers were not disciplined enough"? Are you serious?
So I take it your code is always correct and works the first time.
Clearly, it is bug free.
Because you have discipline.
 
fge
I defy you: calculate the amount of damage caused by null in the last 5 years; then in the last 15 years; incorporate inflation; I can guarantee you: you'll see that in the last 5 years null will have caused far less damage in proportion
 
10:22 PM
Who needs type safety, or static analysis, or tests, you shouldn't even write unit tests - you have discipline.
 
fge
That is a guarantee
 
You evolved.
 
fge
So just stop with that
@BenjaminGruenbaum test me
Honestly
Just test me
(well, my code)
 
@fge test you with what?
 
fge
Try and feed my code with nonsense
 
10:23 PM
You think I can't go to GitHub and find a corner case in which your code doesn't work?
 
fge
Certainly so
My code is heavily tested
I know I have some bugs lingering, but I have them documented
 
LOL
You think you know all the bugs in your software?
 
fge
Yes, certainly so
 
You must be a real genius then if you know all your bugs in your software.
 
fge
I do know the programming domains I attack
 
10:25 PM
Why do you even write tests? It's pointless. You get it right the first time.
 
fge
No, it is just a question of programming discipline
 
No, it's a question of hubris
 
fge
It is precisely because I write tests that I know I have it right
 
Every software has bugs.
Except your software of course because you're special
 
fge
OK, then go find one
 
10:25 PM
You don't need a type safe language.
 
fge
Then open an issue
 
I won't, I won't find one because your code is perfect and bug free.
Just like all disciplined C and Java code.
 
fge
Yes, discipline matters far more than what you think
 
It's just all those stupid developers at Oracle and Microsoft and Google who have these silly bugs filling up their bug trackers - you know what they lack? discipline.
It's a shame people like Tony Hoare can't be more disciplined like yourself.
 
fge
Huh, well, OK, I'll tell you a bug I've found in the JDK
A real one
 
10:27 PM
They should really be more disciplined.
The people writing the JDK, they have errors because they lack that.
 
fge
I can testify that
 
Your software never has errors though, because you have discipline.
 
fge
Honestly, I can
And that's not a joke, witness this bug: Paths.get("").normalize() on Unix systems
Before I reported that, it threw an ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException
They didn't even test that
 
They should have really had more discipline.
 
fge
You may laugh, but yes
 
10:29 PM
Discipline catches all software bugs. Writing software is easy if you just have the discipline.
 
fge
OK, drop it, you are turning circles and not even trying to give a counter argument
 
You don't know what a generator or a coroutine or a closure or a monad is, you haven't actually written in languages other than Java and C but you don't care about those hipsters - they don't know their shit and they don't have discipline. Smart competent people don't make mistakes and certainly you don't.
Screw everyone in the software field in the last 40 years who ever wrote anything on how building software works.
Screw Fred Brooks, he doesn't understand software, screw Tony Hoare too - they're just hipsters who didn't have the discipline to write working software.
 
fge
I can certainly screw them if they are on the same level as those OS people who boasted that microkernels are God, and guess what, today, microkernels are close to nowhere; now, if you could just abandon your "I'm better than you" stance and talk concrete stuff, I'd be happy to listen
But your stance certainly doesn't incite me to try and inquire any further
 
It's not a "I'm better than you" stance as much as it's "WTF, this guy thinks his code doesn't have any bugs o_0"
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum JDK is really complicated product. And we all humans and make mistakes...
 
10:33 PM
@OlegKuznetsov no, not @fge , he has discipline you see? He wouldn't make those mistakes.
 
fge
@BenjaminGruenbaum yeah, right, you made that up only in the last 10 minutes
Like I said, get a life
@Unihedro can you please trash the last 10 mn of the channel, they lead no one anywhere
 
@Charlie Pastebin sucks.
 
@Unihedro Why?
 
fge
@BenjaminGruenbaum as far as system level programming is concerned I can certainly say, without boasting, that I know a lot
 
10:36 PM
@fge you can be the smartest guy on the planet for all I care but claiming your code never has any bugs is just bs.
 
@OlegKuznetsov Because they have the most ridiculous API ever. Only 20 polls from each IP using the pastebin API per day, and only 20 uploads per day from your account unless it's premium. BS
 
fge
@BenjaminGruenbaum I have never claimed that
 
@Unihedro Ah, I see
 
15 mins ago, by fge
@BenjaminGruenbaum only because programmers were not disciplined enough; but programmers are a species, you know, they evolve; and with time they learn to deal with oddities
Meh, this isn't going anywhere.
Enjoy la la land
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I agree.
 
10:37 PM
Bye
 
Bye!
(finally...)
@fge Are you sure they need to be trashed? I thought about bookmarking them to link for whenever someone claims the same.
 
fge
@Unihedro heated debates lead nowhere
There is, ultimately, nothing constructive in them
And there was certainly nothing constructive in this discussion at all
 
Mmph.
 
fge
10:53 PM
Sorry for the outburst, everyone
But this kind of guy really triggers the hots off me at some point
Anyway, less than 8 minutes before 2015 so in the meanwhile --> code
Oh
2015 here so --> happy new year
 
I have joined uni in the new year!
 
Happy new year!
Well, we're incrementing another number, so there's that.
 
did you go to bed yet?
 
fge
Did you have a go at pam4j yet? :p
 
At least the Earth survived for yet another year from the exuberant energy consumption and constantly raising average global temperature.
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 22 mins ago, by Unihedro
So... Eh... I woke up from hunger.
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 22 mins ago, by Unihedro
Also going to make myself ramen noodles (the ones with cheap packets) while I'm a it.
 
fge
11:02 PM
Then go eat, you dum
 
@Unihedro silly boy.
 
@fge I am making food.
 
so hungry because you haven't eaten since last year?
 
I made sure it is edible, too.
@Gemtastic Yes.
 
;P
 
fge
11:03 PM
Same here, although it's been 3 mn only
 
I've been eating popcorn since last year
 
fge
Again: happy new year, but then, more generally: happy year
(I really hope I get that job tbh)
 
@fge Good luck!
 
fge
@Unihedro thanks; and a happy year to you
 
@fge Thanks :)
 
fge
11:21 PM
<-- beginning the year by cleaning up code, while his gf plays Skyrim
 
Sounds like a decent resolution. :P
The new year celebration event is going to start in 3 minutes!
 
Sam
Woot! 2015 here we come! :D
 
:D
 
^^
 
fge
11:42 PM
@Unihedro had a peek at pam4j yet?
 
nope not yet, i'm making food
 
@fge I read that as "had a party with pajamas yet?"
XD
 
Where's the party at?
 
I am getting Error: Could not find or load main class -- but have exhausted the steps from posted questions. $javac NER_Sample.java --> creates a new file called NER_Sample.class ; $java NER_Sample returns Could not find or load main class.
$java nlp.NER_Sample
also does not work. Any suggestions?
 
@Mr.Polywhirl In this chat! :D
 
11:51 PM
@Gemtastic :-p Some of the chat rooms are empty.
 
does a little dance
writes a little code
Get down tonight!
 
3 minutes...
 
Before we can get the hat?
Uni's a mad hatter.
 
Party! \o/
2
 
 
11:55 PM
Yaay mistletoes!
 
fge
@Gemtastic eh, no; PAM == Pluggable Authentication Modules; as to "4j" I surmise you know what it means :p
 
We only got 4 minutes to save the world!
 
@fge I know it wasn't what you meant XD But no, I don't know what 4j means :(
 
@Gemtastic "for Java"? :P
 
shrugs
 
11:58 PM
For Narnia Java!!!
 
fge
@Gemtastic 4J == For Java
 
@fge I don't speak short language :P
 
fge
pam4j is a project I started on a whim (yes, again) to allow to use PAM services with Java executables
But I left it stranded for a veeery long time
 

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