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11:00 AM
If they don't, no one does. :,(
 
aww
 
user1804599
At least it ain't Java.
 
@sehe wait you mean you didn't just drag the icon or it didn't work?
 
@Jefffrey <3
aww
 
11:16 AM
@BartekBanachewicz "you didn't just drag the icon"
Of course not. Why should I be doing what the visuals obviously already figured out I might want to happen?
 
Just have a "yes please" button then.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Just stop on someone's soft shoulder
 
@sehe good one
 
@sehe oh lmao
 
> "One chap admitted 'I haven't worn a seatbelt for 20 years - this is the first time I've been stopped'," he added.
I just love people so much.
 
11:22 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit A better excuse is that is that it's more dangerous parking on the hard shoulder than driving while using the phone. Still won't work in court.
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's why I hate when UIs make you obey it. It should be the other way around. And /then/ make things discoverable.
 
@MartinJames There is no excuse. Simply do not do it.
 
This is just fancy icon-fetish with pseudo-logic
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Oh yes, I agree, even if 'hands-free'. Handling phone calls takes up too much CPU and human brains are really bad at priorities and fast context-switching.
2
 
user1804599
You don't have to drag the icon there.
 
user1804599
11:27 AM
You can drag it anywhere you want.
 
user1804599
It just happens most people want it there, so they put it there as a convenience.
 
@MartinJames And it's illegal.
 
@konradrudolph start here (~4 messages) chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/16145472#16145472
 
@sehe I still find it extremely amusing
 
Oh, believe me, I do too.
Just for slightly different reasons
 
11:47 AM
I used to drive, speak on the phone & read a map - at the same time :')
while watching out for the police
also had micro sleep while on the wheel a couple of times
 
congrats/ hope you'll continue on being lucky
 
thank you :p sometimes I wonder whether I was really lucky to not be dead by now too
 
or kill/maim others, much more enjoyable, of course
 
Haven't done much of that either
 
(Even when prompted, you still only wonder about your own potential(ly missed) death. That's amazing)
 
11:54 AM
Also I find people around me tend not to die - of course people die, but last time a relative passed away (my grandma) she was 102 year old
also two of my friends tried to commit suicide (many years ago), neither succeeded
 
this is probably going to come off as an unbelievably stupid question, but what IS the point of databases and at what threshold do they become necessary or preferred over static data sources?
 
@Crow even with very small data you might want a database to ease sharing and accessing from multiple sources
they are also more reliable than raw files because of transactions and whatnot
all in all, databases end up being written in files; the database is just a (common) layer over that
 
well on a project I am working on now, I grab the data and save it as CSV, once every twelve hours. In that case, is a database worth the effort?
 
for a single person, it doesn't make too much difference as long as there is no other people accessing the same data and your data set is not gigantic, but imagine a 80 people team with different access rights (read/write etc) to the data & all 80 are doing something to the same data
 
@Crow setting up a database storage is as easy as setting up flat files nowadays (IOW I don't see that much of an effort)
it's about what you need
 
12:03 PM
SQLAlchemy seems very easy to set up, I was actually surprised by how easy it was
 
@telkitty.exe that's like saying that using git for a single person doesn't make a difference (which is bullshit)
 
git is SO helpful for one person... reverting commits is great, or branching
 
and so databases keep the structure and file integrity for you vOv
BTW database != SQL
 
really, why would you branch for a single person project?
 
@telkitty.exe to implement a feature on a separate code branch, just like in a multiple-person project.
 
12:06 PM
@telkitty.exe to contain related changes?
 
the fact that only one branch is changed at the moment is irrelevant
 
and WHY would you do that?
 
@telkitty.exe that's like saying "why do you use threading on a single-core CPU"
 
@telkitty.exe why would you implement features on separate branches?
 
have much quality control on your multi-branched project?
 
@telkitty.exe as much as I can, why?
 
@BartekBanachewicz quite apt, that, really
@telkitty.exe the fact that there are downsides to a proliferation of branches, doesn't mean that there's no reason to use them. #fallacy
 
because I wrote a couple of apps all by myself, I know how likely it is to branch off a main project and how likely I would spend days testing even one branch
 
...
do the testing when the branches have been merged?!
 
12:10 PM
apparently.
 
the reason for a branch is for targeting a different group of people
 
no.
that's called a fork, usually.
and while forks typically live their own life and pull from master sometimes, branches are used to denote parallel feature development
then each feature status can be tracked, tested separately from other changes and easily merged into master
 
Please give a real life example of a single person project where you can save a significant amount of time & effort by branching that you can not do with a good backup system
 
@telkitty.exe then you'd just have different build targets off the same branch. And you will find yourself testing all differentiated targets separately /anyways/ (or testing partially)
@telkitty.exe go away troll.
 
@telkitty.exe with what??!
 
12:12 PM
Plonk
 
@BartekBanachewicz simplest version control - save a copy each day with some explanation
 
@telkitty.exe oh my effing god.
it's the most terrible way to do that
 
Good luck reverting some changes, and keeping others
 
and seeing changes while we're at it
 
@BartekBanachewicz s/person/behaviour/
 
12:16 PM
@BartekBanachewicz lol? use diff
 
@BartekBanachewicz diff -EwburN
 
user1804599
> Error:scalac: error while loading Duration, class file '/home/rightfold/.ivy2/cache/joda-time/joda-time/jars/joda-time-2.3.jar(org/joda/time/Duration.class)' is broken
(class java.lang.RuntimeException/bad constant pool tag 10 at byte 48)
 
FYI we are talking about version control not database any more
 
user1804599
lolwot
 
@telkitty.exe saving files manually is hardly a "version control"
 
12:17 PM
@telkitty.exe No. You're talking about keeping old copies of a project.
 
@BartekBanachewicz it is the simplest form
 
it's the non-functional form. It's the illusionary form.
it's the absent form
3
 
@telkitty.exe it's tedious, error-prone, it's harder to use, it's harder to eventually convert to distributed solution, or in general work from more than one workstation, you can't do very small commits easily...
how is that simplest I am not sure.
 
I have used many version control before cvs, perforce, svn etc etc ... and of course git
 
oh also it's harder to specify ignore lists
unless you write a backup script, but then we're not talking manual anymore
 
12:19 PM
With that said I did use git for single person project before - because of the client ... but then again it is no longer 'single' person involved because there is someone else with read access
 
@BartekBanachewicz rsync and hardlinking solves most of that
 
user784668
@telkitty.exe Most of these are diseases, not version control.
 
lol
@sehe well, good luck moving that to windows then
 
well ... if you WROTE the project from scratch, then you should know what has been going on
 
... yeah. who needs version control on windows. Just use a USB stick
 
12:22 PM
@StackedCrooked the latest OP was kinda funny btw; "normal punch!" :D
 
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz But rsync works on Windows and NTFS supports hardlinks.
 
Xeo
There's also robocopy
 
@Fanael TIL
@telkitty.exe because of course keeping a log of what I have been doing would be too hard, right?
$ gc -am "I fixed bug #50"
wow so much time to write that line (also so inferior to cp / rsync w/e)
 
user784668
Weid, GCC miscompiles itself.
 
@BartekBanachewicz and you write that for yourself to read?
 
12:25 PM
@BartekBanachewicz A backup is git push.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I was talking about keeping track of what's going on
@telkitty.exe well, yes?
Admittedly I don't have a remote for every git repository on my disk
but the ratio is certainly >90%
 
Most of the times you want to revert, it should be 10-20 minutes job max from a backup system if you wrote the code. Seriously I have done it from a backup system and from version control. With diff there is textdiff
 
@Fanael how so?
 
@telkitty.exe 20 minutes sounds absurdly long for git checkout HEAD~n
 
if you remember which version to retrieve that is
 
12:29 PM
@telkitty.exe oh right git log is also an extremely hard command to remember
 
user784668
@A.H. Fuck if I know. GCC 4.9.1 for i686-w64-mingw32 seems miscompiled, but one for x86_64-w64-mingw32 seems to work fine.
 
@telkitty.exe Because your solution makes it unnecessary to remember that. I see.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes her solution assumes you wrote the code so you know what you did in every backup
 
There's no need to remember. It's the one in the folder named "new new old new project".
4
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes _final
 
user784668
12:30 PM
>>  echo 'int main () {}' | wine mingw/trunk-i686-final/out-dir/bin/gcc.exe -x c++ -
<stdin>:1:14: internal compiler error: Segmentation fault
Please submit a full bug report,
with preprocessed source if appropriate.
See <http://gcc.gnu.org/bugs.html> for instructions.
wine: Unhandled page fault on read access to 0x00000002 at address 0x477312 (thread 0009), starting debugger...
 
yeah right, you might have saved 3 versions with the similar comments in a log file because you saved every 30 minutes
 
@telkitty.exe is there a point in that sentence?
 
from experience
 
> from ass
tadaaa
 
sometimes you saved a version, tested it, found an error, changed it, then saved it again
then found out something is not right
 
12:32 PM
@telkitty.exe sounds like you just have no idea about software development process whatsoever
 
Yeah, you didn't put enough news in the name of the folder.
 
and/or _finals
 
user784668
Why the fuck would GCC segfault when compiling int main() {}?
 
@BartekBanachewicz that depends on the company not up to you
 
@telkitty.exe your company forced you to not use a real VCS?
 
12:33 PM
because it's shit
 
in other news
Uncaught TypeError: undefined is not a function VM6099:535
(anonymous function)
 
I agree, if you have a large team, many clients, then version control makes perfect sense
but we are talking about single person project - the one you wrote from scratch and only you have the access to the source code
 
no, you don't agree, you just don't understand what you're talking about
 
If it's not in a VCS, it doesn't count as a project.
4
 
JBL
12:34 PM
@telkitty.exe Are you currently implying that it's easier to do version control by hand than when using a Version Control System?
 
@DeadMG I like how this could work as a reply to more than one of the previous messages.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes "it's shit" is an universal truth about everything
 
@JBL no, I mean version control does not really make it much easier for a single person project ... in reality that is
 
JBL
@telkitty.exe Projects always have many versions. Even when you work alone.
 
user1804599
 
Xeo
12:36 PM
ASGUAUPIDG Fuck function-level scoping
 
@JBL yes, then there is the backup system
 
user1804599
Write smaller functions.
 
@JBL But those are all kept anyway, in folders named project (before big refactoring). project (old), project (old2), project (new), project (refact2).
 
JBL
@telkitty.exe Back-up system? Like in "Castrated version control system"? I'd take the fully functionnal system.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Project(with_feature_1_wait_no_2)
 
Coming up next: Dropbox as a VCS.
 
12:38 PM
This app I have written that I have NOT used verson control had some 3000 downloads and many ratings
4
I know it is fine
 
JBL
@R.MartinhoFernandes Please, the memories from my studies hurt.
 
user784668
Fuck it, building GCC with --enable-checking=all.
 
JBL
@telkitty.exe You know, there are shitty apps that are downloaded, that doesn't make any point right there. (Not implying yours was, but that isn't an argument).
 
okey you know let's end this discussion
and focus on bashing javascript error messages
 
But I'm having so much fun!
 
12:40 PM
ITT Bartek is in charge of who says what and when (though that would go some way towards explaining why everybody's so full of shit)
<3
 
You have my permission to speak, @Lightness
bane.jpg
 
JBL
Btw, got a new job, woohoo!
 
@JBL congratz
 
Whatcha doing now?
 
12:43 PM
what are you gonna do?
 
JBL
I'll work on augmented reality on mobile. Never done mobile dev, we'll see how it goes :)
 
@JBL shitty software everywhere ... most are version controlled
welcome to real world
 
@JBL Cue neverending hatred.
@telkitty.exe In the real world, correlation is not causation.
 
JBL
@telkitty.exe Ah but we didn't say version control makes shitty software good. That's completely irrelevant.
 
(Therefore you're not qualified to welcome people into it)
 
12:44 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes at least it sounds like an interesting job. the "augmented reality" part
 
JBL
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, Java and ObjC seems fun.
 
But yeah, at least it doesn't sound like "building apps".
 
If my app is shitty it is because I produced them single handedly and I produced MANY apps/software ... I am not a genius who is super fast @ producing super awesome code
 
JBL
Well, it implies working on the app itself, C++ core and Java/ObjC for user interfaces. But also a bit on the 3D part as well.
 
besides I also do MANY other things other than write code
 
12:46 PM
Renaming backup folders, for example.
 
user1804599
private def readFile() =
  io.Source.fromFile(filename)
    .getLines()
    .map(_.split("\0"))
    .map{ case Array(name, time) => (name, Duration.parse(time)) }
 
user1804599
Hope this works. :3
 
@JBL So both Android and iOS?
 
JBL
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yup.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes surfing, hiking/bush walking, ocean swim, adventure caving, gambling on the stock market & renting out properties (not at the same time of course)
 
12:48 PM
As long as that doesn't interfere with the folder naming.
 
I do that I have to admit ... you never renamed a folder before?
 
JBL
And they use C++11 which is nice. Not like this big consulting company that was like "You'll work on a 20 year-old project which many many many beginners have put their hands on".
TIL Build Engineer is a job where you rename folders.
 
user784668
Hi, swapping hell.
 
@telkitty.exe Bushwhacking?
 
user784668
@rightfold What's this?
 
12:52 PM
@JBL The task of Build Engineering is proportional to the build system complexity… it can involve bushwhacking.
 
So a recruiter emailed me for a PHP job.
I emailed back "I don't do PHP. I like my sanity."
 
user784668
@TonyTheLion Meh, sanity is overrated.
 
Overrated is overrated
 
user784668
Note to self: compiling GCC with all checking enabled with -flto in CFLAGS is a bad idea until I buy more RAM.
 
user784668
12:56 PM
How expensive is RAM these days?
 
@Fanael I was surprised to see how expensive it's gotten in the past few years
I've got my 2x4GB kit ~two years ago for the same money that would buy 2x2GB today
 
@Fanael Download it for free, of course.
 
@AlexM. What on earth are you buying?
 
JBL
@AlexM. IIRC manufacturers always have "reasons" to have their price go up.
 
1:01 PM
I can see a 2x2GB kit here for £32 and a 4GB stick for £30.
 
it was made by Mushkin, let me check the frequencies
 
JBL
Like "That factory burned", "There was floods in the country that provides 60% of the electronics".
 
Xeo
@AlexM. As far as I know, it actually got cheaper.
 
> Mushkin Silverline Stiletto 8GB DDR3 1333MHz CL9 Dual Channel Kit
 
Xeo
As long as you're buying DDR3, and not DDR2...
 
1:03 PM
hi
can I ask C questions here?
 
no
 
JBL
Apr 23 at 16:38, by Cat Plus Plus
New here? Read The Law.
 
@user2179021 Your mental health may be at risk.
 
the RAM I mentioned above is now $30 more expensive at the same store I bought it from
 
@MartinJames OK. That's a shame
 
JBL
1:05 PM
@user2179021 Have you asked on Stack Overflow ?
 
@MartinJames If he's writing C, his mental health is probably already questionable.
 
well
 
@user2179021 It's a Lounge - for an escape from work. Most here don't even like C++ questions.
 
if you bought RAM from a physical store, that's probably your first mistake.
online retailers are usually much cheaper
 
oh hi @Jerry
@AlexM. 8GB is awfully low these days
 
1:06 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Hello.
 
since the prices went down I was waiting to grab myself a 32GB set
 
@JBL Those countries have monsoons every year!
 
@BartekBanachewicz wut? why'd you need 32Gb ?
 
@BartekBanachewicz since I got them I never went over 5GB used at any time so it's enough for me
 
@JBL the goddamn factory burned :D
 
1:07 PM
@MartinJames And they don't work either.
 
@Abyx TBF 16 would be plenty. But then again, that probably wouldn't be for long
 
I have 16Gb and I use 4Gb for /tmp
 
and the cost of buying a 16GB set and throwing it away in the next few months would be bigger than just buying 32 upfront
 
I bought 12GB with my box. It's still enough for what I do. It runs my VM's, FF etc. just fine. I'll get more when I replace my box.
@R.MartinhoFernandes OK, there's that:)
 
I saw some old 1600Mhz CL9 modules for dirt cheap, so maybe I'll just buy those
 
1:09 PM
@Abyx Is a RAM disk actually more efficient than just letting the usual filesystem cache everything?
 
I have a miserable 4GB in my work box
 
what is the math behind a page turning in 3D graphics?
 
@Crow it's an animated mesh, hardly anyone does that procedurally
I mean, you could, but dunno...
I wouldn't.
Get a Maya expert and pay him in beer.
 
@Potatoswatter it is. I believe that code compiles a bit faster. not that I measured though
 
what do you mean by that? Similar to cloth mechanics but with different parameters?
 
user784668
1:10 PM
@TonyTheLion Me too.
 
@Crow no, it's a normal regular animated mesh
do you know how 3d animations work?
 
not really.
 
you create a set of frames and store each vertex position in them :P
 
It's just a bunch of keyframes with interpolation between them.
 
@TonyTheLion 4Gb is OK for a smartphone
 
1:11 PM
you can go fancy and animate a rig instead
 
JBL
@TonyTheLion I have an awesome 4GB in my work box.
 
then you store the rig keyframes and the weights of bones to particular vertices
 
@Abyx I have only 3GB:( My phone is working OK so far.
 
@MartinJames ah, Notes get 3GB?
 
My old laptop had 5 GB, it bogged down when running the Windows XP VM.
 
1:13 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Mine has, don't know if they all have.
 
i think that went well
 
it's all funny and stuff but just wait until we'll get to 3D print RAM
 
@Potatoswatter Laptops need an SSD. My ancient Asus 901 is still useable today for browsing etc, when travelling, but only because 64GB SSD and 2GB extra RAM.
 
@Potatoswatter huh, mine has 4GB and I was nicely surprised to see how well it runs OS X in a VM, w/o any trace of lag
the processor is sorta slow-ish and old too (i5 480M, not even a real quad)
 
@AlexM. Could also be because of only 2 CPU cores and no hyperthreading. And the bogging only really starts when GF leaves her account running in the background with the browser open to some Flash site :P
When it wasn't quite so old I did use it (XP VM and all) for Real Workâ„¢ and it performed admirably. But carelessness makes bogging.
 
Xeo
1:25 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Hi, I live with 4.
 
@Xeo that's not life. That's vegetation.
:)
 
Xeo
Dunno, I'm doing fine so far
 
anyone here going to try the new Wolfenstein? it looks like the most fun single player FPS in years
 
Xeo
And now imagine: Until not too long ago I only had 2!
 
@Xeo to put that in perspective, my last processing in Knime took 3.5GB. (2.5M rows). My friend sped that up on his PC, and caching everything in memory took him well over 13GB.
 
1:27 PM
up until two weeks ago I had ONE GB of ram !
survived for 4 years
 
Overmind has 4GB
 
I still have only 3GB.
 
and it's like built from scrap
 
@A.H. The seven year-old machine I just gave up a few months ago had 1 GB of RAM (with 7 other gigs to keep it company).
 
meh, I thought JS questions get a lot of attention
and apparently people skim over good js answers
and focus on :F
should've added that
 
user1804599
1:32 PM
@Fanael bad code.
 
user1804599
private def readFile() = {
  val stream = new ObjectInputStream(new FileInputStream(filename))
  try stream.readObject().asInstanceOf[Map[String, Duration]] finally stream.close()
}
 
user1804599
This is better. :v
 
if by "better" you mean "total shit".
 
it's not C++
 
user1804599
Being written in Scala, it is inherently better than any code written in C++.
 
JBL
1:35 PM
@AlexM. Some reviews told it looked like shit.
 
eh?
looks good to me
 
JBL
Like, "Absent scenario", "sluggish", and generally a terrible feeling about it.
 
can you link to that specific review?
 
JBL
Paper one :)
Called Canard PC, in France.
 
JBL
1:38 PM
(They are a bit over zealous when it comes to bashing games that could be okaty-ish, so to be taken with a grain of salt, but generally they're correct)
 
there's a "safer" javascript
class _Main {
  static function main(args : string[]) : void {
    var x = new Matrix(1, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0).transform(new Point(1, 0));
    console.log(x);
    var x = new Matrix(1, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0).transform(new Point(2, 1));
    console.log(x);
  }
}
no warning on redeclaration of x of course
:thumbsup:
 
JBL
What's safer about that?
 
@JBL dunno about the sluggish bit so I'll have to play it to see if there's any
 
@rightfold You seem to be almost a year behind in your language of the month club dues. You need to get caught up immediately, of you'll be stuck with writing some actual code.
4
 
user1804599
@JBL It uses classes and static functions, duh.
 
1:41 PM
but tbh I'm looking at wolfenstein especially because it's about shooting nazis
not because I'm expecting some awesome plot
 
JBL
@AlexM. That was a bit old, so Bethesda may have done some good work on it...
@rightfold Eeh... Yes, right.
@AlexM. Shooting nazis is so 2004-2006.
 
that's actually a good thing for oldschool gamers
 
2004-2006, "oldschool gameers"?
 
I'd make myself older if I could, but I can't
it's oldschool from my perspective
 
@AlexM. you don't need to make yourself older, you are becoming older
 
1:46 PM
even so, I can't get older than those older than me at any point
 
unless they die I assume ... depends on how you definite age
 
still won't work; then I would be older than the dead person was
 
JBL
@AlexM. Easy there, 2004 is just ten years behind us now, no big dea---- WHAT?
 
are you sure 2004 is the right year though?
 
JBL
The right year for?
 
1:49 PM
leaving the first Wolfenstein aside, the first MoH and CoD games came before 2004 I think
I think MoH and CoD gave the start to the shoot-nazis-ww2 craze
 
JBL
Well, I remember a lot of games at that time were about WWII.
Rough estimation.
Not that these were the first.
 
I know I tried the PSX version for the first MoH on my PSP, and after being used to more modern titles, I was like "shit, this is ugly"
@JBL might be, back then I was not able to play new games so they might have flown past me
back when TeS Oblivion was released I was still playing Baldur's Gate because my PC was most comfortable with it
 
nooooo!!! my precious meta-rep :(
 
Baldur's Gate was great
 
it was
I really enjoyed the boss fights at the end of each chapter and the dreams that continued the story
 
JBL
1:56 PM
Never played it thoroughly, got a bit frustrated by its combat system (yay D20!). But it was a really good game, yes.
 
the narrator has a pleasant voice
I could listen to him narrating stuff while working with no problems
@JBL hah, I think I reloaded like 60 times per bossfight until my entangles worked perfectly
 
JBL
Imoen had a hilarious voice in the french version. Apparently they missed one voice actress for her, and took a guy that did it. The result was priceless.
@AlexM. Yeah, I found that a bit tedious and not very right. Then, I recognize it's still an awesome game :)
 
at one chapter I was able to beat the boss but unable to beat his summoned minions (or maybe just minions), so I had to entangle them to actually run away
 
JBL
 
lol, dat voice
 

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