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9:00 AM
I know, it's like what if there were MILLIONS of site on the internet about EVERY POSSIBLE TOPIC?
crazy talk, obviously.
we need one site: facebooks. Every other site can be shut down. DONE AND DONE
 
i'd hate to see the subjective site
 
Anonymous
I think that would be more counter productive.
I mean stack overflow is for programming... .why have programmers.stackexchange.com ?
 
@JeffAtwood can you see what was said before the edit?
 
see programmers.stackexchange.com/faq for details on why that site exists
 
You only need one site: qa.com
The rest is just tags
 
9:01 AM
@ChrisBoesing There's history in the arrow on the right side of each message
 
tagname.qa.com
 
other things we need one of: countries, religions, love.
 
@ÓlafurWaage Well then, topic.tag.qa.com, subtopic.topic.tag.qa.com... etc.
 
why ruin a perfectly mediocre idea?
 
Anonymous
Humph. Guess I better get an account started there then too.
 
9:03 AM
I kind of agree with you Jeff, this is far better than campfire
 
ah the "imaginary domain name" game. This one is fun. oh wait, no it isn't.
 
"The Scrum Butt", we're using scrum, but...
 
Anonymous
I personally hate all those "Web 2.0" domain names... "delic.io.us"
 
reminder, PLEASE READ THE CHAT FAQ. We worked hard on it. It is good. It has useful information.
21
 
So if I have a question that is too specific, it can't be in the general room? :P
 
Knu
9:05 AM
religion? that's dangerous.
 
must... resist... urge... to move @ÓlafurWaage's question to a meta-chat room
 
don't you dare!
 
@balpha Then we'll demand that each migration be decided by voting, and voila, we have the SO close system!
 
how much rep do you need to edit my chat?
 
Anonymous
I've read the FAQ, it mentions losing rep for being flagged but nothing about gaining rep. Is this something for the future?
 
9:07 AM
@ÓlafurWaage need to be a mod
 
@balpha that's a scary notion
 
@DalinSeivewright Eh... why would you gain rep for getting flaged?
 
but to move the message out, you just have to be room owner
 
chat will never generate rep, that is not its purpose
 
spoil sport
 
Anonymous
9:09 AM
@YiJiang I meant gaining rep for say, helping someone through a programming problem while in chat.
 
find a question/answer by him on SO and upvote it
 
Anonymous
Yeah I suppose
 
@ÓlafurWaage NO! Why would you want to encourage that sort of behavior?
 
<sprays water on Olafur> BAD OLAFUR!
 
9:11 AM
sorry, I can't type your crazy moon language characters
 
NO, if someone is helpful to me, I goto his profile, find something good and upvote it.
 
@JeffAtwood gét ä bètter keyböärd
 
probably fine as long as the "something good" part is respected
 
ya, that qualifier was missing
BAI
 
Knu
they seriously need to start thinking of merging several area51 proposals
 
9:14 AM
we are doing that, it is Robert's priority for this and next week. @knu which ones did you have in mind
 
Knu
i can't remember exactly but before they attain a size where you can't touch them anymore
for example check the linux distros ones
 
@DalinSeivewright You should, friendly, relative dates are a pretty common trend in web development nowadays
 
Knu
they are still small but ubuntu is already official
 
@knu we are looking at: Jewish proposals, Parenting proposals, Security proposals
 
Knu
mmmh interesting (im following a security proposal)
 
9:16 AM
7 messages moved to Chat feedback
 
Anonymous
@YiJiang Maybe on an actual website but not within the context of a chat room. The most I've seen is just a line.
 
:1339 Shouldn't you try to look for the root problem, like say, server clock desync or something
 
Anonymous
Now that is clever.
 
Knu
you will need good moderators on the jewish one
 
@knu there is a lot more merging we need to do
 
Knu
9:17 AM
if you are aware of the problem that's good :)
 
@DalinSeivewright Shrug from a programming point of view it's just dropping in the correct jQuery plugin
 
Oy vey
 
well, Joel is jewish so he knows the topic space.. I don't at all. that's the risk when we get into topic spaces we know NOTHING about, how do we tell what's mergeable and what isn't?
we can ask the proposal owners and the commiters / followers but they are often biased
eg, unix vs. ubuntu.. everyone "needs" their own site.
because "everyone" is "special" :)
anyway Area 51 merging is something we're getting heavily into, but it takes hands-on work with actual human beings to figure out
and thus, is slow
 
shakes fist Ubuntuuuu
 
@JeffAtwood Have you had any contacts with Moms4Mom recently?
 
9:19 AM
yes, we have
 
Knu
yes but we could have just changed the design when someone clicked a tab in the header
 
@AidenBell You just don't like orange, that's all :)
 
Knu
and the ubuntu lovers would have been satisfied :)
 
@JeffAtwood, ok, good.
 
meh, it's a lot more subtle than that
"you don't need your own girlfriend! you can just share a girlfriend with these three other guys!"
what could go wrong?
 
9:20 AM
@YiJiang - true
 
Knu
Well then what can you do with fedora, arch and foresight linux distros?
 
@JeffAtwood I'm having alarming flashbacks to past relationships
 
Knu
they deserve a site but won't ever reach the critical mass needed :)
 
unix is so weird in this way, which makes it worse.. unix forking is part of the culture
 
@JeffAtwood - Ubuntu isn't strictly a fork I don't recon
 
9:22 AM
@AidenBell Eh... finish your sentence
 
Just a configuration - Having C# and Mono
@YiJiang anyway, im not going to start about that
 
I like moms4moms and I admire what they've done.. but that is seriously the worst domain name .. ever
 
Knu
something you could do is split unix and linux this way ud be able to merge the distros into linux
 
Is that like mumsnet.com
 
if I could summarize all the reasons I don't want to ever pick another domain name again, I would do so thusly: www.moms4moms.com
 
Knu
9:24 AM
*could do
 
@Knu You can edit your messages, you know :). Do it now, before the time runs out
 
yeah if you read the chat FAQ, it explains how to edit :)
 
@JeffAtwood, I don't know if it's a bad domain name, it's just a misleading one
 
@YiJiang I was just trying to link to the FAQ topic on it, but the FAQ doesn't allow linking to topics. -_-
 
Knu
yes indeed this chat rox ^^
 
9:26 AM
@Benjol That's kind of the definition of a bad domain name
 
omg the list of problems with that domain name is epic. a) excludes dads, massive faux pas b) is that "for" or 4? c) is it mom4moms? moms4mom? mom4mom?
 
@MichaelMrozek, well, the problem was not that the choice was bad, it's just the nature of the site evolved after the event. Which points back to the elevator pitch thing, which is the right question, with that I agree.
 
Elevator pitches aren't magic though
 
@JeffAtwood, Yeah, you're right. That's a site for which parenting.se.com would probably be the best url (except for the 'let me spell that for you' problem)
 
Knu
btw jeff it seems ur working for SO - could you rename FreeBSD to BSDs in the description of Unix & Linux?
 
9:29 AM
no, Jeff's not working
 
@VinkoVrsalovic, they are magic in that it is the key question to find out if you actually know what your site is about or not. Can't answer = no focus = doomed site (in my opinion)
 
lol
 
but you're right, he's doing that for SO
 
Oooh funky, if you in another room you still get piped chats in the sidebar.
 
Knu
i wonder where i could ask that anyway :p
 
9:30 AM
@Knu do you mean FreeBSD->FreeBSDs
 
the only worse domain name is clownpenis.fart tressugar.com/SNL-Skit-Clownpenisfart-1965732
 
@Benjol My point was that you can't always have a good elevator pitch for everything. There will be some sites where answering is not possible to do in a satisfactory manner
 
or just FreeBSD to BSDs
 
Knu
i mean netbsd dragonfly etc…
 
ah
@Knu - See Ubuntu vs Unix/Linux
 
9:30 AM
@JeffAtwood surely the hyphen-site is a big enough reason, too
 
@JeffAtwood What is that (too afraid to click through the link)
 
it's an old SNL skit
 
@VinkoVrsalovic, I stand by what I said (for StackExchange sites, at least): Can't answer = no focus = doomed site
 
Knu
uh? @aiden it has nothing to do with the fact that other bsd are excluded
unless you mean that other bsd questions should go on ubuntu :)
 
@Benjol Or it could be that you can answer it in a paragraph that doesn't fit on the header :)
 
9:32 AM
@Knu Post it here if you think it should be changed
 
@MichaelMrozek - You should just talk on my behalf, 32 hours awake is too much for me
 
Knu
@michael don't have an account there - i thought it was a really straight forward change
 
@AidenBell I'm tempted to go back to sleep, I only got up to see the chat launch and apparently I missed it by like three hours :)
 
why does @AidenBell hate sleep so much?
 
Knu
if it needs a question on meta i was wrong
 
9:33 AM
@Vinko, I agree for a two-word motto, that's just too hard, but I think a one-sentence description should be do-able.
 
@JeffAtwood His <del>bot</del> magic fairy speaks on his behalf when he sleeps
 
@Jeff I guess it's his SO addiction
 
@JeffAtwood - I don't hate it, I just give it a go and think "X,Y,Z needs coding, also it'd be cool to do A,B and C"
then get up
and come on this chat
lol
 
Change to the everyman sleeping pattern ?
 
@Knu I think "other Un*x-like operating systems" probably covers it. The intent wasn't to exclude other BSDs, anyway
 
9:34 AM
Plus, there are just so many landmark SO events for him to attend.
 
@TimStone and fail at :P
 
@AidenBell Too bad there's no badges that encourage bad behaviour. Getting fifteen different people to vote to close your question is pretty impressive, I think it's gold badge worthy.
 
Knu
well saying BSD or BSDs would cover everything - i mean im not asking to change linux to gnu linux
 
Since when Unix is a bad word that needs starring?
 
Actually I guess it was 20, since it got closed on meta post-migration..
 
9:37 AM
@TimStone - I still hate everyone
 
hate is such a strong word
 
5
Q: Why is there a * When There is Mention of Unix Throughout the Internet?

JFWI've noticed that throughout the Internet, within forums and blog posts, Unix always has a * in the word, whether it is *nix or Un*x, as I noticed at the welcoming banner at the Unix StackExchange site. Why is this like this?

 
I just found a new Flight of the Conchords video I hadn't seen before
 
@JeffAtwood I throw it around
cheaply
 
I hate hate, man! And I love love.
 
9:38 AM
@YiJiang you are wanted in meta.chat
 
From reading the faq @JeffAtwood this interface is rather full of goodness. Have you seen the moderation collaborative smackdown style work well already?
 
er.. what?
 
"This site is collectively moderated by the community through participatory flagging. If your chat messages are repeatedly being flagged by your peers you might find yourself muted, banned, or – in extreme cases – your Stack Overflow reputation may be negatively affected."
 
oh hi
just three rows of people? I am disappoint!
 
@badp Hai!
 
9:41 AM
@radp hi
 
Essentially, does it kill trolls?
 
@badp even
 
@gyaresu Well, it doesn't mention the last stage nuclear option
 
@YiJiang I like that feature.
 
Ooh it goes 'DING'!
 
9:42 AM
 
Ha.
 
you know, we really have not had problems with trolls in chat almost at all, which surprises me
 
@gyaresu It's suppose to be unicorn gallop but they didn't manage to get that
 
keeps a low profile
 
I think it's because you need 20 rep to enter chat, and there is the possibility of flags in chat affecting your parent site rep
 
9:43 AM
@JeffAtwood That's a by product of the 20 rep requirement. They are already all hooked up by then
 
in The Tavern (General) on Meta Stack Overflow Chat, 3 hours ago, by Tim
Can we be alerted with the sound of galloping unicorns?
 
Historical moment, I agree with Jeff
:)
 
bobince must absolutely see this.
 
I asked bobince to visit chat a while ago but he didn't. he also answers emails like 30-60 days later.
 
It's stackoverflow as persistent identity on the interwebs. You have to actually work for your identity. It's then 'worth' something.
 
9:45 AM
It's because he is up to shenanigans
 
we have a lot of tricks around rate limiting and of course 10k users can see chat flags
 
@AidenBell I actually laughed out loud at that.
 
we have thought a lot about griefing like we always do
does anyone here in chat have 10k rep? surely you do
 
14k
 
@JeffAtwood in a way, not griefing is the ultimate form of griefing you can get done then.
 
9:47 AM
Oh yeah. Somebody flag something so I can finally see it, I don't have 10k on meta. And by something, I mean somebody else's posts
 
@badp Not sure if I understand that. Too contradictory.
 
yeah someone flag -- ah, I see it
bah, it got cleared really fast
 
Not me. I've spent the last year becoming a dive instructor :) Just getting back into Python now.
 
flag something people
 
9:48 AM
ok, so you 10k users should see these flags
 
That is ... blocky
 
@JeffAtwood Only mods can do anything, right?
 
I need to confirm the exact behaviors, but enough flags will remove the message
 
I suppose I should be less lazy and answer my way up to 10K...something else for the todo list. :P
 
really we didn't get to exercise the flag system a ton because behavior has been so .. good.
 
9:48 AM
@JeffAtwood I thought there's suppose to be a little box that pops up and ask you for more details?
 
I was shocked
there is flag and mod flag
 
goes fetch goatse
 
I just have a blue square
 
@YiJiang trigger the drop down on the message and try mod flag
 
When does the flag disappear?
 
9:49 AM
I can see a basic 'flag as spam/ offensive'
 
not until a mod clears it, I think
 
editing a message also clears it, it seems -- at least, that's what it looks like to the not-10ker flagger.
 
when a mod clears it or there are enough flags to autodelete
 
So can someone clear it? :) I got a blue (4) on my profile icon here
 
click that blue 4
 
9:50 AM
Only brings me to the page
 
ZOMG
 
Ok, now they're gone
 
mine just went
 
@JeffAtwood Yes, what can we do after that?
 
intense
 
9:50 AM
I cleared them
 
But clicking on it showed a page with two comments from you @Jeff, but it didn't clear the number
 
It cleared the number for me
 
they haven't been dismissed just by visiting; it takes a mod to do that
 
@LasseVKarlsen you're not a mod, you can't clear flags
 
@balpha I can't remember the exact behaviors, can you confirm
 
9:50 AM
It links here
 
eg, does multiple flags on a message eventually auto-delete it?
 
yes
 
everyone flag the "I cleared them" message above
 
Knu
mmmh i think a linux distro website with big tabs for each distro would gather enough users
 
(don't clear anything ben)
 
9:51 AM
okay
 
Knu
but we would have 3 site for linux that's too much
 
I can't reflag: You have already voted, but the voting has been cleared by a moderator
 
Just as long as multiple flags on one persons messages doesn't eventually delete the user :)
 
flagged
 
9:52 AM
right, do the one I just typed
 
one more to go...
 
bam
 
whoo
 
ok so that works :)
 
Got to catch the bloody thing first :)
 
9:52 AM
Apparently people like balpha more than Jeff
 
still got a 5
 
YOU BASTIGES FLAGGED MY POST AWAY
 
@gyaresu Too many people typing!
 
/troll
 
Then what's the point of /admin/flagged for us 10k?
 
9:52 AM
You asked for it! You had it coming!
 
Good luck getting that many flags on a quiet room
 
The button keeps shifting upwards! Slippery slippery button!
 
to talk to moderators afterwards?
 
@vinko it's so you can ADD flags to force things over
 
@YiJiang Yeah, that's much more of a problem here
 
9:53 AM
like say no mods are around
 
did you know, if you flag a message you can see the number of flags against it by reloading the page.
 
Yeah, I switched away from this window a minute, and the tab said (31*)
 
someone flag this for moderator attention (you must use the gutter menu for this)
 
@JeffAtwood Ah, so I can go back and add a flag to it
 
seems like you didn't lose any rep for that, btw, @jeff
 
9:53 AM
@badp Lies?
 
@JeffAtwood Mr T btw
 
@MichaelMrozek I'm looking at his rep graph
 
lol let me screenshot
2
 
I missed one... fixing now
 
9:54 AM
@badp I was talking about the refreshing page thing
 
that is 2 MENTIONS, one REGULAR flag, and 4 SPECIAL WITH COMMENT MOD FLAGS
 
@JeffAtwood Clearly we need a clever use for the fourth corner
 
@JeffAtwood I would certainly have that face with that many notifications
 
@MarcGravell I'd much more like to see the servers running on the same time
 
Ok, I feel like I still need to ask. Why does my profile icon have a blue (1) on it, when clicking on it, only shows the message by Jeff?
 
9:54 AM
@MichaelMrozek no, it's true :)
 
Ooh, the numbers on gravatar are clicky. I likeses it.
 
In other words, if one of my messages are flagged, why can't I see which one?
How is this useful to me?
 
@balpha yes, but I can't fix that; tell Kyle
 
@badp Where did you see it? I assumed you meant in the blue rectangle, but nothing changed there
 
hey guys, whats cooking?
 
9:55 AM
@balpha @JeffAtwood /admin/flagged has the gutter menu with no action associated
 
Knu
yes you really need to merge the linux disros (like fedora, foresight etc) into unix.stackexchange.com - it needs special features
 
@MichaelMrozek Starz! Show me teh starz!!1!
 
@MichaelMrozek by hovering the message, next to the flag button.
 
@mahen23 no this is stackoverflow; you want cooking.stackexchange.com
 
no number is shown if you're the only one flagging however
 
9:55 AM
haha about jeff atwoods tweet on addiction... yes Im addicted to SO too!
 
so you can get 5<flagged-img/> but no 1<flagged-img/>
 
Gah. Every single time I can't find information it's because I'm not hovering over something
 
Is this twitter?
 
@MarcGravell You lost me there, sorry. "gutter menu" is Jeff's term
 
@AidenBell shhhh, don't say it too loud.
 
9:56 AM
anyone else out there keep visiting stack overflow like crazy to check their rep or replies!
 
@AidenBell Only you can type
full length messages
and it won't reject them
 
@VinkoVrsalovic sorry, misclick
 
@badp So what does the blue number mean to me here then? That I flagged a message? Or that one of my messages are flagged? And why show it to me? Can I do something about it? See which message it is?
 
Hitting the reply button is like a chat.SO minigame
 
@LasseVKarlsen you are invited to flag it to death if it is inappropriate
 
9:57 AM
@LasseVKarlsen why are you asking a non-10ker what you 10kers see? :)
 
what are the do's and the don't do's?
 
I was asking what the blue number meant
 
@LasseVKarlsen it means n messages were flagged (actually there are n flags on m <= n messages)
 
@LasseVKarlsen It's the same as on the normal site, we can't do anything (mods can), but we can add our own flags to get the post killed
 
The only site I ever had tools access to, Gaming during beta, had the flag access hardcoded at 10k anyway :(
 
9:58 AM
Ok, so next question is, what does it mean to me? Can I do something about the message?
 
Just flag it more to push it away?
 
Hehe!
 
@LasseVKarlsen I already asked. yes
 
@LasseVKarlsen yes, flag it to death, but only if it is inappropriate
 
9:58 AM
@YiJiang Cheater!
 
@MichaelMrozek "Do I REEEEEEALY want to send this" >> Click send.
 
Ok, thanks, now I understood the purpose :)
 
Still, that non actionable menu sucks
 
What if you flag one of mine, do I see that?
 
:P
 
9:59 AM
1 message moved to Chat feedback
 
Knu
i supose they are using onload stuff
 
that was a fast migration balpha
 
Ok, thanks
 

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