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Als
7:00 PM
@Xaade: You are hurting me with that now lol
 
@Als I work in C#: I find it useless.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes that offends me.
 
The fact that I find the question useless offends you?
 
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: That is your perspective
 
There's nothing I can do to change that.
 
7:01 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Reread your post.
1 min ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@Als I work in C#: I find it useless.
 
I find that particular question useless.
 
Als
lol
@Xaade: Still, you should'nt be hurt by perspectives
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Since you don't see it..... Clarify "it" in that statement.
 
Als
perspectives are local to person not global
 
@Xaade I did already.
47 secs ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
I find that particular question useless.
 
Als
7:02 PM
goddarn pedants!
 
I work in C#, it's useless.
Pretty easy to misunderstand.
@Als What's wrong with peasants?
 
Als
@Xaade: Even if it was a statement which meant so, Why should it offend you?
 
The question doesn't make me a better programmer, and it isn't even trivia I can use at parties.
 
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: not a good pick up line eh ;)
Do you know wha C in C# means?
 
@Als See, you're looking at it from the perspective that it is morally wrong to offend. I rather see it as, I'm allowed to be offended, but it is my own fault I'm offended. Whether my feeling is justified is a separate issue.
 
Als
7:04 PM
err...slap...get lost!
 
@Als You want me to guess what C in C Pound means?
 
Als
@Xaade: You know you are a fox and a willy one at that, you know to twist your words.
 
@Xaade That seems awfully close minded.
 
Yay! It's alive!
I mean, it compiles!
 
@EtiennedeMartel I'm offended because I chose to be offended. That is my reaction to an event and I'm responsible for my own reaction. My reaction may or my not be justified. But having offended a person in and of itself is not morally wrong.
No one is entitled to live without being offended.
Without being murdered, certainly. But you don't have a right to remain unoffended.
I'm offended that someone finds C# useless, but I'm also offended that Burger King removed the dollar double patty burger from it's menu in an effort to get me to pay double. I don't think many would care about either of those cases.
 
Als
7:09 PM
I am going to repeat
4 mins ago, by Als
@Xaade: You know you are a fox and a willy one at that, you know to twist your words.
 
@Xaade The problem with such an attitude is that it makes you go in life without asking yourself if you're offending others.
It makes you look like an ass.
 
@EtiennedeMartel No it doesn't. It makes you go in life considering whether a person's offense is justified. If a person is justified in being offended, then avoid that action that offends. If a person is playing politics (or just insensibly offended), then ignore it. The offended is responsible for their feeling of offense.
Person X is offended that you wore the color blue. Do you take your shirt off?
 
if you need to ask yourself if you're offending others, you probably are
 
This is like saying that the one being hit is responsible for feeling pain.
 
Pain is involuntary. Emotion is voluntary.
 
Als
7:15 PM
I am going to refrain myself from being a part of this conversation for it is leading to something which it should not.
 
Okay, what about verbal violence? If you insult someone, should that person be responsible for being offended?
 
If emotion were involuntary. Then we wouldn't be justified in sending people to anger management.
 
"it's their own fault for dressing like that"
 
Als
And I am going to go sleep, Have a good day, folks
 
7:17 PM
"It's not my fault if your feelings were hurt, you should have grown balls instead"
 
PREMISE: A person is responsible for being offended. PREMISE: A person may be justified in being offended (IE the offender committed an immoral act). CONCLUSION: If a person is justifiably offended, do not commit the act that offends.
 
"Fact"?
How the hell is that fact?
You're just pulling opinions out of your ass and then presenting them as "facts"
 
Fact: if you sound convincing enough when you say "fact", whatever follows becomes a fact
 
Yeah, sounds like politics.
 
7:18 PM
Where is that code monkey bastard?
 
a CONCLUSION is not a fact
 
Changing it to "premise" is not going to change anything.
Also, "immoral" vs "moral" is awfully subjective.
 
@hexa The conviviality in this room is not what it used to be.
 
Look, this is how I believe.
 
counterexample: 2 is equal to 3. Conclusion: 3 is equal to 2. that is NOT a fact!
 
7:18 PM
Alright, and you are untitled to your opinion.
 
@kbok He downvoted me!
 
@hexa I read that as "where is that code, monkey bastard"
yay for ambiguous sentences
 
But do not shove it into other people's faces.
 
who shall not shove what?
 
@hexa How do you know that ? I though it was anonymous
 
7:19 PM
I'm not. I'm explaining my belief.
 
3
A: Is it necessary to undef macros within function?

hexaIt is not necessary, but the scope of a #define is global after the line it was defined. It will not obey the function scope, if you are thinking it will.

He just gave it back :P
 
If presenting one's beliefs is in err of "shoving it in other people's faces", then according to my beliefs I can't give a damn.
 
@kbok The room was never convivial -- only the participants were. There, now I've at least restored it to its usual pedanticity.
2
 
were
 
There's "presenting" and there's "passing them as facts"
 
7:21 PM
@EtiennedeMartel I'm sorry if I passed them as facts.
 
Anyway, all of this is pointless.
 
But my intent was to clarify why I was saying what I was saying.
 
@JerryCoffin Good point, but then how would you qualify the room ?
 
Hmm...is "pedanticity" a word? If not, what would the right word be, "pedanticism"?
 
pedantification
 
7:22 PM
Pedantry?
 
pedantness, pedanticalism, pedantivism.
 
Yeah, it's pedantry
 
@EtiennedeMartel The formulation of that concept was in response to all the ridiculous (and often made up) offenses people were taking in the name of political correctness. At which point I could no longer care any more about offending ridiculous people.
 
Okay, I'll try to remember "pedantry" as the right word.
 
7:24 PM
pedantophilia?
 
0
Q: Java without implementation inheritance

FredOverflowIn a recent video on Java, Joshua Bloch states at 4 minutes 20 seconds into the video: And then there's inheritance, and that was a marketing necessity. You know, we can argue whether you really need implementation inheritance or not. So I wondered: how would Java look like without implemen...

 
@Xaade While it's certainly not universal, something I think people who are being sufficiently ridiculous benefit from being offended a bit.
 
Seems a silly question. "How would X look without the thing that makes it X?"
 
Everytime I see pedantry, I read peasantry. At which point my mind instinctfully attempts to make a mental path between the two. At which point some part of my brain figures they are not in fact related. At which point I want to rip the word up.
 
Java isn't really much of an OOP language, but it's very much an inheritance language
 
7:25 PM
I'm too lazy to post an answer.
@FredOverflow I guess something like traits ?
 
@JerryCoffin I can't read that for some reason.
can you rephrase?
 
also, wouldn't you still have interfaces?
 
Java is a design-pattern oriented language.
 
sbi
@jalf Java is an inheritance language in the same way as an ugly vase which you inherited and now don't dare to trash, because aunt Molly would turn in her grave.
 
@jalf I think that's the point.
 
7:26 PM
someone undid a minor change i've made to wikipedia's C article
 
@jalf Yes, and you would use them for composition. With pain.
 
@Xaade Sometimes if somebody is really being stupid, offending them can be a good thing (and no, I'm not attempting to imply that it's the case here, just observing that in general, offending people isn't necessarily a terrible thing at all).
 
Good design pattern seems to suggest that inheriting behavior is evil. Allowing inheriting only the definition and not the implementation, would move that forward into language support.
 
@sbi doesn't that imply that the Java community feels inheritance is an ugly artifact they'd rather be rid of but are stuck with?
 
@JerryCoffin At which point you've said succinctly what I've tried to point out this entire time. Tactfulness isn't a grace I'm skilled in.
 
7:28 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't want to compose anything with pain :(
 
OTOH, DRY suggests that inheriting implementation is generally a good thing when/if it allows you to avoid repetition (which is often the case).
 
Well, without some form of automatic delegation in the language, composition is bound to be painful.
 
sbi
@jalf No. They are aunt Molly. We'd all rather get rid of their ugly vase and replace it by something modern and functional (like C++11), but this would lock out thousands of servers (the aunt turns).
Well, maybe it wasn't such a good analogy, after all.
 
As I always say, Java is the new COBOL.
 
@JerryCoffin you could just have some static function whatever.toString(mytype), which does the same as the "current" object.toString()`
 
7:30 PM
@sbi I was confused by the two uses of "inheritance"
 
no need for manual delegation or repetition of code
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I had example code to show that it's possible to use a template to effectively inherit common behavior with the benefit that such behavior is compile time selectable. Meaning common behavior exists in a template such that the "inheriting class" and the "base template" were each interchangeable. Satisfying good design with composition, and allowing closed for modification.
 
you'd just call a static function instead of an inherited member function
 
@Xaade But that wouldn't work in Java.
 
@jalf That's certainly possible, but doing so violates another general principle: minimizing scope and visibility of identifiers.
 
sbi
7:31 PM
@kbok Are you talking of the two I messed with, or the two uses in the English language?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It works in C++ and C#. I'm satisfied. What's this Java everyone's concerned with. Can it do what it says it tries to do (encourage good design).
 
sbi
Oh, and BTW:
Canada has also voted to approve the C++0x FDIS! #cpp #wg21
 
This Java is what spurred the discussion.
Blame @Fred.
 
@sbi QFT.... again.
 
@Xaade "good design patterns" as in "good workarounds for missing language features"? :)
 
7:32 PM
@sbi "inheritance" and "inherited" in the same sentence with no apparent connection except the fact that one can suspect a pun. It's evil.
 
@sbi Yay, that makes what, 5 upvotes on the FDIS?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes That does seem a very well ad general advice!
@Xaade QFT?
 
Quoted For Truth.
 
@sbi Hurray!
 
@JerryCoffin does it? how would this function have a smaller scope than the current toString implementation?
 
sbi
7:34 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Does it? I've heard about the US, Spain, and Canada. What did I miss?
 
@sbi It has been quoted often enough in here to seem as an attempt to ensure Canada remembers what it decided, and is forced to stick with it.
 
Dunno, maybe I'm counting some twice.
People have been posting those tweets all day.
 
sbi
@Xaade Ah, sorry if I posted it for the umpteenth time.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I posted canada and spain earlier
so we're probably still at 3
 
@sbi My comment was in jest. It's good to celebrate. lol.
 
7:36 PM
btw, it strikes me as exceedingly geeky that we're sitting here getting excited about an ISO vote on something so utterly trivial. It's a foregone conclusion, and compilers writers are already working overtime to add support for it. ;)
but still, that shouldn't stop us!
 
Is there some way to tell GDB to not step through code that isn't mine?
 
It's like getting excited when your FHA loan is bought by a bank.
 
If that helps, my code is all on the same namespace.
 
btw, I don't suppose anyone knows why news about individual countries are trickling out like that? I mean, are they actually collating the results now, in which case all the results should be available? Or are individual countries just reporting what they voted, and three countries just happened to do so simultaneously?
 
sbi
@Xaade I'm online using UMTS in a remote mountainous area, and it's pretty flaky. For the last hour I have been disconnecting and reconnecting about every 2.5mins, which proved too short for me to get into what you're chatting about here and post myself. Now it's been stable for about 10mins in a row, which is why I dared to interject my own thoughts, and it has backfired. :(
 
7:38 PM
So, that's why I've seen you quickly coming in and out several times.
 
sbi
Oops, why does my chat window display a tag between the tag line and the list of logged-in users? It seems it didn't do this the other day. Or was I simply to inattentive to notice?
 
It's something new.
 
@sbi A mod just added that.
 
MarcGravell came by this morning and tagged us.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes What does that mean?
 
7:40 PM
how sites like ideone.com are safe? how they prevent evil things with the filesystem or anything else? Or they simply do nothing and rely on linux's user permissions?
 
@sbi He added the tag.
 
@hexa They probably run stuff in a sandbox.
 
And mentioned some new things to come.
 
@hexa There's sandboxing systems for that
 
Or, at least, the user running the code is probably not root.
 
7:40 PM
hum, nice
 
But wasn't very clear on exactly what.
 
anyone has a link for a good sandbox system that can do that?
 
I have one, let me find that
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes You mean he ran around chat rooms and added tags to their page just like he felt about them?
@RMartinhoFernandes Like?
 
8 hours ago, by Marc Gravell
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Bunga Bunga partay! [c++]
You can read from there.
It basically says nothing.
Other than something new is coming.
 
sbi
7:42 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Thanks, will do right away!
 
@sbi Well, I think he went by the room names.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Wow, does that mean the tag is part of the rooms tag line?
 
No, there's a separate field in the UI.
But we can change it if we want.
The tag shows in the "topic changed" message.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Ah! Found it!
 
Is it just my browser, or do you guys have to refresh to see the changed tags too?
 
sbi
7:45 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes No, mine, too. (FF5, here)
 
So, did anything happen while I was gone besides Canada's vote?
 
sbi
@LucDanton Yeah. (Canada's vote was posted here. Several times.)
 
The speed this takes seems so slow. There are quite a few ISO members, aren't they?
 
did a just sneaked in up there?
 
@LucDanton a few dozen countries are voting members, I believe
 
7:52 PM
shouldn't it be c++0B?
 
no
 
why the draft wasn't called c++1x then?
 
because it was intended to come out before 2010 :)
the x is just a placeholder, it doesn't mean "hex"
 
oh, I see :)
I've seen Bjarne saying it meant hex in his faq
 
I think original estimates put it around 2006-2007, actually ;)
@hexa that's just a joke
 
7:55 PM
"Think of 'x' as hexadecimal (most likely 'B', i.e. C++11). "
but then again, if what you say is true that was probably just a way to handle the delay heh
 
yeah, exactly
 
pretend I meant it to be a hex number all along wink wink
 
:)
 
sbi
@hexa It was, but only by a few people. (I was among them and had to defend this POV quite often here on SO.)
 
there is also the upcoming C standard C1X
Maybe to avoid confusion with that too
 
8:00 PM
Yeah, it never really caught on. It's a logical enough idea, but it'd be ambiguous because it's quite likely that we'll see another revision at some point in this decade
and besides, with the thousands and thousands of articles and blog posts and what not referring to C++0x, changing the name would cause needless confusion
/me opposed it quite often here on SO ;)
 
Could it be that C++1x was also already used to mean 'the Standard after C++0x' before it was obvious C++0x wouldn't come before 2010?
 
@sbi not many people left then
@LucDanton yep
 
It's quite an irony in all this C++0x/C++11 naming. It's as we are acessing a public var that should have been private and now we can't change the interface
 
sbi
@jalf Yeah, ironically it would probably the dead of our British regular here. :)
 
8:05 PM
@sbi The last option might be pushing a bit :P
 
@hexa it's not quite global though. It has a limited lifetime
which is why I think it makes the most sense to stick with 0x. It's just a temporary nickname, it doesn't matter if it's misleading or inaccurate
 
sbi
@LucDanton So we didn't use the name that became sensible due to an incredible delay because it might interfere with some hypothetical future name that would apply if we sped up the next version beyond the speed planned for C++11. Nope, I don't find this reasoning very appealing at all.
 
@sbi it's true though. C++1x has been used to refer to "the version after 0x"
 
sbi
@hexa Option?
 
so there would be some degree of name clashing
 
8:08 PM
@sbi in the link you posted. "they're"
 
sbi
@hexa That's the first question!
 
ok, sleepytime for me!
 
sbi
@jalf I won't argue. I'm tired of it. But I'm not convinced.
 
@sbi Oh, I can scroll down. lol.
 
sbi
@hexa At last! He's learned to scroll! Huzzah!
 
8:10 PM
yelo
wow, did everyone just shut up cause I entered the room?
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Dieter Meier & Boris Blank?
 
Thanks for the respect guys, but it really isn't necessary :P
@sbi what?
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger No, we shut up a few seconds before you entered, anticipating your move.
 
@sbi hahaha :)
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Stella, of course! That's still the best for me.
 
8:13 PM
@sbi the beer?
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Those two weren't brewers!
Mumbles something about the youth today...
 
Yello ist ein Schweizer Musiker-Duo (Dieter Meier und Boris Blank). Das Wort Yello ist ein Wortspiel von Dieter Meier und steht für „a yelled Hello“ („ein gebrülltes Hallo“). Bandgeschichte Ende der 1970er Jahre wurde Yello von Boris Blank und Carlos Perón in Zürich (Schweiz) gegründet. In einem Testlabor für Autos trafen Boris Blank und Carlos Perón aufeinander, um Motorengeräusche aufzunehmen. Sie kamen ins Gespräch und begannen später, zusammen mit verschiedensten Geräten zu experimentieren, nahmen Geräusche auf und verarbeiteten diese zu Songs. Auf der Suche nach einer passenden B...
this?
 
sbi
Stella is the fourth studio album by the Swiss band Yello. It peaked at #1 in Switzerland, #23 in Austria, #26 in Sweden and #92 in UK. Released in 1985, the album contains the track "Oh Yeah", which became famous after being featured in a variety of movies including Ferris Bueller's Day Off in 1986. Track listing *All Songs Written & Arranged By Boris Blank & Dieter Meier. # "Desire" – 3:42 # "Vicious Games" – 4:20 # "Oh Yeah" – 3:04 # "Desert Inn" – 3:30 # "Stalakdrama" – 3:05 # "Koladi-ola" – 2:57 # "Domingo" – 4:33 # "Sometimes (Dr. Hirsch)" – 3:35 # "Let Me Cry" – 3:30 # "Ciel Ouve...
 
Yello has only one song and it is 'Oh Yeah'
 
sbi
They got that Wikipedia thing in English, too, you know.
@hexa Actually this is wrong. In fact, I never liked that one.
 
8:21 PM
It was from that movie, Ferry Bueller or something hehe
 
Is there already a "C++ gotchas" community wiki article?
 
@KerrekSB Did you search the tag?
 
sbi
Haha. There's a German initiative ("Exit") to help neo-nazis to leave the scene and denounce their extreme views. That initiative managed to pass 250 shirts with prints appealing to nazis to the managers of a nazi concert event, where those shirts were given to the visitors. However, after washing the shirts for the first time, they would lose their right propaganda, and show an ad for "Exit" instead. ("What your shirt can, you can, too. We help you denounce.") What a glorious prank!
 
@hexa Ah, faq, useful. :-)
 
user457812
That is pretty damn awesome, sbi
 
8:34 PM
@sbi that is pretty cool actually
 
@sbi Impressive.
 
sbi
Yeah, what's sad, though: Some marketing company allegedly financed the campaign, but the prefer to not to be named. A pretty nasty fly in the ointment, if you ask me.
 
To be honest I was never aware that neo-nazis needed a way out. I can imagine how hard it must be growing in the environment though.
 
sbi
@LucDanton Add to that the fact that very, very few of them are bright heads. Many of them ended in their scene because they need guidance.
I just read an interview with some Guillaume Néry, a guy who dives below 100m without any technical equipment. His lungs will take 10ltr (ours take 6), but in that depth they are pressed to the size of two oranges. He was asked how fast his heart beats down there, and answered he doesn't know, because they don't have instruments to check that which can withstand the pressure.
That guy is crazy!
 
9:35 PM
oh hai
 
hai
what's new?
 
not much
feelin sick, etc etc
 
ugh :(
 
sbi
@DeadMG You still rioting?
 
my stomach's rioting
 
9:49 PM
I'm still jobless, so no better here
 
but it has been for a number of months now
 
I'm job rioting
and my feet still hurt too
so I feel your pain
 
on the plus side, I finally managed to unlock my money
 
unlock your money?
 
and a new second screen
yes
 
9:50 PM
did you lock it up and forget about it?
 
basically, I had money in an account online, and they increased the security so that you had to know your PIN to do online transactions
whereas previously, you only needed a PIN to transact in person
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger He didn't forget about the money, he forgot the key. :)
 
so I had to go through all sorts of shenanigans to get it fixed
 
@sbi oh yea, sure
I'm a bit tired, so I write things that I don't think and think what I don't write
lol, sounds like UK, shenanigans :P
 
I often say what I'm currently thinking
instead of what I'm currently in the middle of saying
 
9:52 PM
yea we have noticed :)
 
had an argument with Code Monkey earlier
he was discussing some blog post for a few minutes
then posted a link and then pasted some more from the blog
and I was most sarcastic about his unnecessary repetitive pasting
he told me to go jump in a lake and that I should shut up :(
 
oh damn
ah well, it's the internetz, ignore it
 
I dunno man
I suck at doing that
 
ignoring things?
 
yeah
I mean, rather than telling me to go jump in a lake because I was wrong, he told me to go jump in a lake because he didn't want to have to deal with what I said
which I take personally
 
9:55 PM
oh damn dude, you don't even know this guy, so fuck him
 
true
if he was here, maybe I'd offer :P
 
hahah
I don't take this chat personal
no way
have too much other things to worry about to take this place personal
 
heh
resits, money, accomodation, health
 

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