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12:00 AM
I'm sorry. I can't let it go.
 
@AdrianMole Yeah, definitely spam then. Just based on that first post, I still wouldn't count it as spam though.
 
@Scratte Then do something.
3
 
Hmm, I appear to have walked in on something. Time to read the transcript I guess.
 
@AdrianMole Start here, @cigien
 
Ah, thanks for the context.
 
12:03 AM
And here in "the other place."
 
I was just getting to that point in that transcript. Good to know that it's an overlapping convo, thanks.
 
@AdrianMole Rolling it back is just going to start a war..
 
@Scratte It's way off my domain, so I'm trying not to get involved. I raised the review issue (in SOCVR and here) out of astonishment. I wasn't actually seeking any particular action. But ... Værsgo!
 
It's not domain either, but I don't think it needs to be.
 
Well, I'm following it now...
 
12:10 AM
Maybe in 687 days when some poor person that did more research than they had to do and somehow ends up on that post, finding an Answer.. sees my comment and rolls it back, you'll get a notification :D
 
12:25 AM
@Scratte If you don't mind me asking, if you had to choose between seeing an action that you think is harmful go uncorrected vs raising a flag that might get declined, which one would you choose? Concretely, I'm referring to the action that motivated you to actually say something in SOCVR.
 
@cigien That depends. In this case.. it's not "unnoticed".
 
@Scratte Yes, it's noticed, but I said uncorrected. What if you were the only one who felt strongly enough that something should be done? Would you raise a flag that might be declined?
 
And concretely.. what is a flag going to do there? The result is either it's rolled back or it's not. That's not something only a moderator can do, so.. I expect a flag here to get declined.
 
Ok, fair enough. How about a suggested edit to rollback. Would you do that?
 
@cigien No. It doesn't fix the issue of a user deliberately doing a destructive edit.
I don't know how to fix this, to be honest.
I don't even know if anyone can fix something like that.
 
12:33 AM
I'm confused. Doesn't rolling back a destructive edit undo that destruction?
 
Well, it's hot in SOCVR now ... other users joining the debate.
 
In this one particular case, it would.
Heh.. I didn't get a ping, but I expect I'm on the ignore list :D
 
@Scratte I'm getting the impression that you don't want to make small incremental improvements, unless you can solve the whole problem at once. Am I understanding that correctly?
 
@cigien Yes. That's pretty much my thought process on it.
I'll point out a small problem because I just happen to notice it. But patching a small hole in the tire when there's a huge open gash on the other side.. seems sort of pointless.
 
I understand the feeling. There were several societal issues that I felt similarly about when I was younger, i.e. why bother taking the effort to make small changes when it seemed like the problem at large would never be solved? One thing that I have learned is that historically, every large change ever effected, has come about through a series of very minor incremental improvements.
While the idea of large sweeping changes to fix a problem is appealing, it has been made clear to me in a variety of ways that this is unrealistic, and not really how the world works. And I don't see that the SE network would be immune to this principle.
I don't really have any advice for you on how to deal with this, I'm just pointing out the reality as I see it. I will note that I advised you to try and chill out by experimenting with substances, but you declined that :) Not the most stellar advice, but it did work for me in college when I was quite disillusioned with many things. Don't quote me on this advice ;)
 
12:48 AM
I'm not unchilled.. and if I was, I think becoming a drug-addicts would be the wrong choice for me :D Or anyone else, really.. I don't think drugs like that should be for "fixing" things.
 
That's fair. It's not for everyone. Also, I agree that becoming an addict is not a good idea for anyone, but I was only talking about experimenting, which is a different thing :)
 
@cigien I'm not sure I agree with you on that. World war II ended with two rather big "fixes" that ended all the small ones, is an example.
Throughout history, things have changed in rather big ways in very short time periods.
 
No, not really. We tend to remember the big events, because they leave an impression. On their own, they would have solved nothing.
It's easy to forget the multitude who toiled to make small changes. But they're the real reason anything changes. The big events are just the ones in the history books.
 
@cigien For a reason, because those are the ones that actually cemented a change.
And in many cases the big events initiate change.
Like the killing of a black man by sitting on him. This wasn't anything new and lots of people complained about it happening for a long time. (Not that I think this is actually going to change anything. As these things have been circulating over and over ever since I can remember)
Do you really think that rolling back this one edit is going to make the user not make a similar one in the future?
 
Hmm, it seems like we're going to disagree on the impacts of big events as opposed to a series of small changes. I think I'm understanding better why you have the attitude to SO that you do. Not entirely unrelated, have you read E.H. Carr's What is History? It's my favorite book on History, and has informed a number of my views related to the discussion we're having.
 
1:03 AM
No. I haven't. I know humans keep making the same mistakes over and over again. We're quite reluctant to learn. We're ruled by our animal instinct and feelings despite convincing ourselves that we're not animals. We're greedy and have no real compassion of anything other than ourselves, which is relative to whichever isn't "us" at the moment.
 
Yes, I agree with your latest message completely. Are you implying that that means it's not worth trying to improve the situation?
 
No, for me it means changing what we learn and teach from a young age. You can't fix old and broken. There's noway to make someone that decided to wear "6MNE" on their t-shirts to help young black people to get better educated too.
Long term goals instead of short term fixes that doesn't actually fix anything but the tiny hole in that one side of the tire.
 
I see. You don't think it's reasonable to try and do both? I ask because the establishment (the "old and broken" as you put it) dictates a lot of what the newer generation gets taught. I'm not convinced that the old can't be taught new things; it's hard of course, but not impossible I think.
 
1:18 AM
Yes, I know they do. It sort of also depends on "government" how much influence they have though. In an anarchy, like Stack is, they have a lot of power.
I can go about making destructive edits all days long here. I can close vote good posts. Delete vote whatever I like.. just as long as I'm bright enough to come up with some valid excuse for my behaviour, in case someone notices.
For me, fighting the same battle.. over and over is just pointless. Especially if it's with the same individual.
Not that I don't sometimes do it anyway. But I tend to find workarounds after a while. They work better for me, since they require less energy.
So, on the question of "if you had to choose between seeing an action that you think is harmful go uncorrected vs raising a flag that might get declined, which one would you choose?". I'm likely to let it go uncorrected. Asked me the same a year ago, I'd raise a flag.
I'm not history major ;) Not even in the slightest, but I see this happening: New ways are introduced when a younger generation find a separate source of information and make themselves independent from the established ways.
 
 
3 hours later…
4:47 AM
I expect someone decided that my comment that the edit was destructive on the post was "No Longer Needed".. what a major fail in every aspect.
referece that is was certainly there
This is exactly what I meant @cigien. There's no fix for this sort of thing.
 
You left a comment. You know how insignificant comments are. Why did you expect that to have any effect?
 
@cigien I didn't expect a moderator to humour the deleting of a comment that point out an issue. Though I'm not surprised that someone took a shortcut and deleted it without even reading it.. which is inherently a much bigger problem.
Flagging will do nothing if the content isn't evaluated anyway.
 
I'm not entirely sure how it works, but don't several NLN flags cause a comment to be automatically deleted? I'm not sure a mod even saw the comment.
 
I'm willing to bet that was moderator deleted.
 
Maybe. I am definitely sure that custom flags will be evaluated by a mod personally.
 
4:58 AM
So was the "No longer needed"-flag.. someone handled it.
It's like the site is constructed in favor of destruction.
 
Many mods have said they don't take NLN flags seriously, i.e. they'll just delete the comments without really reading them. That is not the case with custom flags.
 
I have a bigger problem with the deleting of the comment that points out an issue than the actual issue. With the removal of that, anything goes.
 
That's a false equivalency. Mods (and other users) will take the deletion of a post a lot more seriously than deletion of a comment, for example.
 
Then you can basically do whatever you want on the site. It's been said time and time again that if there's a bad answer, downvote, comment and move on. Even harmful Answers.. do that same. But the poster can just have the comment removed.
@cigien No one seems to take the destructive edit seriously..
 
How do you know that? Several users have objected to that edit, and someone may have raised a flag as well.
 
5:03 AM
Perhaps. I'm not going to hold my breath.. and even so, it'll only fix this post, not the behaviour.
The removal of the comment has cemented the behaviour in my opinion.
 
Yes. Changing other's behavior is a much harder thing to do, if not impossible at times. If it makes you feel any better, some users do try to effect that change. In fact, whether it makes you feel better or not, users will continue to try, because they believe it's the right thing to do.
 
For this particular case editor deliberately made a destructive edit. How can that even be fixed?
 
As I've said, by other users who care enough to rollback. I'm afraid you're going to respond to that with "but that will only fix this particular case". Yes, that's all that it will do.
 
Exactly.. and I'll not even notice what other destruction is going to happen or already has happened.
 
Which leads me to the question I've been meaning to ask. Do you have any concrete plans for doing anything about any of the problems you've pointed out? And I mean concrete things on Main, not just having discussions in chat.
 
5:14 AM
I don't see how I can do anything about it.
The homework-thing was never really properly addressed because it was hushed down.
Despite that it was a unilateral change.. twice.
The moderator that changed it back didn't even want to quantify what they would consider a "new" consensus on it. In effect they made it impossible to meet any requirements or rather could change those to "not good enough".
As long as the site is run solely by anarchy, and individually self-appointed users to interpret the rules however they like, I don't see there's any solutions.
 
5:40 AM
Obviously, I can't speak for other users, so I'm glad you brought up the Homework topic. I was quite involved with that, and pushed for changes in that regard. It didn't end up exactly how I wanted it to, that much is true. But you seem to be implying that all the effort was for nothing, and that I wasted my time by even trying. That makes me feel bad.
That might also explain why some other users have been lashing out a bit as well; no one likes being told that their efforts are in vain, and that everything is a hopeless mess. Many of us are aware of the problems, and it's likely the very reason we try so hard to fix it. At least that's the reason I try.
It's just a thought, but you might want to refrain from constantly pointing out how hopeless everything is, and how useless it is to even try fixing it.
 
You asked me what my plans were. I responded to that.
You also asked me what I choose between a and b. I just responded to that.
If you feel that you made a change with the homework post, then I can not take that away from you.
 
 
2 hours later…
7:38 AM
@cigien This.
@Scratte Yes, flagged as NLN. You can guess how/why. Deleted by a moderator. Not one who falls into my category of "deletes every comment that is flagged". I guess they thought it was unnecessary bickering. You have the tools to reverse the edit, if you saw fit to do so.
@cigien It is equally true of custom comment flags. As I say quite often, mostly on Meta: all comment flags mean "this comment should be deleted", regardless of whether they're a canned reason or a custom typed reason. If the mod doesn't think the comment should be deleted, our only option is to decline. If we think the comment should be deleted, regardless of the reason identified, then we delete it, which marks the flag helpful.
Some mods do what I think is a very poor job of reading and evaluating flagged comments; others do a much better job. But still, don't raise a comment flag unless you mean for the comment to be deleted, even a custom comment flag.
@Scratte By raising a freaking moderator flag. You'll have to make your case a bit more concisely than you did in here, but you need no additional evidence. Linking to the comment in SOCVR where they basically admitted that they were making the edit so that people would be less likely to find the question is pretty damning evidence.
Of course, fixing the problem directly (i.e., rolling back, in this case) is also an option.
Like it or not, mods are reactionary. We fix the issues that are put in front of us. We don't have the bandwidth or the resources to go around pretending to try to do any more than that.
@cigien @Scratte Err... dropping the ball on the homework thing (at least, with respect to editing the Help Center) is partially my fault. The mods basically agreed that, after discussing it, and since there were no major objections to various posts I made on Meta about it, it would be reasonable to re-do my edits to the Help Center page (which revert the arbitrary change from 7 years ago, which was arguably interpreted as de facto policy in the meantime, like it or not).
I just haven't done it, because I've got a lot going on, and I essentially forgot about it.
Using that as an example of how discussing things has no effect... well, that's ironic, because the opposite is true.
I would not change a single thing about how I handled that. I feel there is far too much inaction and hand-wringing.
 
8:07 AM
@CodyGray I wouldn't know what to put in that flag. Linking to the messages asking for what? Please inform the user to refrain from making knowingly destructive edits?
 
Far be it for me to accuse you of being difficult for the sake of it, but... you seem to know precisely what to put in the flag. The exact same complaints that you raise in chat rooms.
 
That just confuses me more. I complained that my comment was removed. I can't imagine that one coming back from a flag.
 
I don't mean that complaint.
I mean the original complaint that prompted you to leave the comment.
 
Oh, right. That needs a couple of days of investigation, no? With lots of destructive edits to be really useful to anyone in a way that actually matters.
 
It doesn't need a couple of days of investigation. It just needs a couple of days (or more) for a mod to have time to actually get to that flag in a sea of hundreds.
 
8:18 AM
I don't know how that works on the other side of the flag.. I would assume a single edit would result in a declined flag with "You can roll it back yourself".
 
Meh, I guess it could.
Providing your rationale that you thought it was an intentionally destructive edit, along with evidence, should be sufficient to prevent a moderator from declining the flag.
It's very likely that our course of action would simply be to roll back the edit, but... I'm not sure why that's a bad thing.
If you were really worried about the possibility of a declined flag, all you'd have to do is add some sort of hedge to the end of the flag message, like "I'd roll it back myself, but I'm afraid it would just start a rollback war. Can a mod please intervene?"
 
That wasn't my worry in this case. It's the refusal of rolling it back themselves despite others informing them that the edit isn't OK. All little alarm bells in my head is going off. But I'm in the middle of a project and seeing as I don't have time to go through a user's revision history, I decided to just complain about it instead.
My comment going missing was just another part of the evidence of the refusal.
 
I don't see why complaining about it in a chat room is easier than complaining about it in a moderator flag.
This is the fundamental disconnect I have with your complaining about things in chat.
I like complaining about things in chat. I'm not trying to discourage that.
Just... complaining about things in mod flags also tends to result in better results.
 
Because while I do care about that post, it's not really a concern of mine. No one else actually took their time to roll it back, so I expect it's not very important for this particular post. Or everyone else assumed that someone else would to it, I'm not sure which ;) The source of my frustration was that this is not the first time I've seen it. I doubt it will be the last, and if I were to raise a flag, it would not be about this one edit, that anyone could roll back.
 
Gah!
I am so tired of that.
First off, it is a concern of yours, or you wouldn't have spent all that time typing up chat messages about it. You type more slowly than I do, and even I wouldn't bother complaining about something that legitimately wasn't a concern of mine.
Second, this logic that "well, no one else did anything, so I shouldn't do anything" is just... god, it's so stupid.
I don't have the patience at the moment to explain any more. It's been a long, frustrating day as it is.
 
8:43 AM
Okay, this is entirely too much text written on this subject...I changed the title to somewhere in between the original title and the edited title.
Now I can return my attention to more pressing concerns, like what is bleach, exactly, and should I drink it to protect myself against COVID-19?
 
:-)
Oh, someone cleaned up the comments there, including my response to Flater's nitpick of my nitpick.
Squeee! I got a shoutout in the answer!
"Nerdy anecdotes"
 
@CodyGray preserved in chat, in case you want way too much text about way too many things
 
I have plenty of places I can go to get way too much text about too many things.
But I definitely had my fill of that "discussion" after fredsbend got involved.
 
That shoutout was actually how I stumbled across your comment, I surely wasn't going to read all of gestures vaguely at the comments that got moved to chat
 
It was a nice change of pace to be agreeing with Ian Kemp, though. :-)
Well, the "supernova" score should have helped you to spot it.
Few things amuse more than a semantics debate over the incoherent ramblings of a deranged man.
"Well, you see, he didn't actually say that. It's clear that what he meant was..."
Uh, wut?
 
9:05 AM
I was confusing Ryans..
 
@Scratte there's more than one? grabs sword
 
I was guessing you may be going through the alphabet. That one just prior to this one.. Ryan L to Ryan M.. ;) Next up.. you guess it :)
I'm surprised no one suggested to just mix it up with a little ammonium in a glass and leave it overnight.
 
I suspect you mean ammonia, but I know very little about chemistry.
 
@RyanM May be. I can't remember what the bottle says.
 
I don't know what the point would be of mixing it [what is it?] with either ammonia or ammonium.
 
9:13 AM
Ammonia is a common household cleaner that is dangerous to mix with chlorine bleach.
 
In Danish we call it ammoniak.
 
Ah. So mixing ClO2 with NH3 would yield no harmful reaction, whereas NaOCl + NH3 would yield toxic chloramines, making it a "good" diagnostic test?
 
I think Scratte was imagining a more ...malicious motivation behind someone suggesting that.
 
(Ammonium, or NH4+, is just a protonated ammonia. It's basically what you get when you put ammonia, NH3, in solution—i.e., in water.)
I label my homemade mixtures of ammonia cleaning solution: "NH4OH".
 
I remember when I was very young at my first real job, there was a cleaning person that got stuck in an elevator. Apparently it stopped with a jolt and some bleach mixed with some ammonia, and they died. It left an impression on me.
 
9:19 AM
That... seems apocryphal.
Certainly, chloramine gas could kill someone who was trapped in an elevator.
 
@RyanM Yes, I was. I've seen some pretty horrible and strange suggestions for how to avoid all kinds of ailment. Usually aimed at people who don't go to check first.
 
But what are the chances of a "jolt" causing solutions of bleach and ammonia to mix? And why in the hell do you have uncapped cleaning solutions sitting around in your janitorial cart or whatever?
 
I once had the clever idea to mix regular bleach and color-safe bleach (they're both bleach, right? totally safe...) when I was trying to get some stains out of something (which I did eventually succeed at). It promptly reacted quite vigorously, bubbling up rather aggressively. I immediately dumped it down the drain, left the room, and shut the door.
 
Good idea, send that stuff directly to the waterways!
 
@CodyGray I can't recall the details. They were using one of those cleaning wagons and I imagine they were cleaning the elevator. Likely had the separate bottles already open. I'm going to guess ammonia for the mirror and bleach for the floor.
 
9:23 AM
Actually, it's not any big deal.
 
...then looked up the result of that particular reaction: salt water and oxygen :-)
 
NaOCl + H2O2 => O2 (gas) + NaCl + H2O
Yeah.
So it was just bubbling because it was generating oxygen.
You had a redox reaction!
 
Yup.
 
The chlorine from the hypochlorite ion in bleach was being reduced by the addition of an electron (Cl + 2e- => Cl-), while the oxygen in the peroxide in the color-safe bleach was being oxidized by the removal of two electrons (2O- - 2e- => O2)
I miss chemistry.
 
How do you remember such things?
 
9:27 AM
I don't remember them.
I understand them, so that I can regenerate them when needed.
 
The American Chemical Society claims that "Bleach plus hydrogen peroxide creates oxygen gas so violently, it can cause an explosion." but I imagine that would only occur if you had quite a lot...
 
How can you understand what water is made out of? I mean I remember that only.
 
More likely, if you had it in a tightly confined space.
Like those "experiments" where you blow the cap off of something by mixing... what is it? Vinegar and baking soda?
Or Mentos and Diet Coke.
@Scratte You picture the little molecules!
The cute Mickey Mouse-looking molecules!
With bent geometries, due to the large electron clouds of the oxygen atoms.
 
:O
 
Which, again, makes sense. You essentially have a quad-substituted oxygen atom. Two of the substituents are obvious: the two hydrogen atoms. The other two are the electron groups on the oxygen.
You know the oxygen has to have two electron groups to balance the charges.
 
9:30 AM
I mean when someone says "Household bleach" I don't get how you can understand what that is made out of :)
 
Oh. I guess that you just have to know.
You have to have some mapping between a common name and what the chemical actually is.
That's what the problem is? Once you're told that "household bleach" == NaOCl, you can derive the rest?
That's fair enough.
 
I'd study it, but I'm behind on my regex studies :)
 
Ah.
Chemistry is way more fun, and more logical, than regex.
Especially basic inorganic chemistry. Super simples.
More than half of the time, the ions just change places in the reaction.
 
@Scratte Spend some more time around Charcoal and you can get a crash course pretty quickly :-)
 
Yes, let's get some more chemistry discussion going in Charcoal. I'm down.
In honor of our namesake carbon, we can do organic chemistry.
 
9:35 AM
I just spent 20 min working out why (a*|b)* wasn't matching any b's. You really think I'm cut out for chemistry? :D
 
Makyen's not here to kick me, so...
2 mins ago, by Cody Gray
Chemistry is way more fun, and more logical, than regex.
 
@Scratte were there as in front of the bs?
 
@RyanM Yes.. aaabbb. It's not going to match one b :)
 
hmmm, that should match that entire string...I'd think...
yeah, it does
oh, errr
 
No, it does. But it's pointless; (a|b)* is more efficient.
 
9:37 AM
Hehe.. let me know when you get it :)
@CodyGray I needed a possessive quantifier on the a's.
 
What are we not getting?
 
the heck...(a|b)* matches, but (a*|b)* doesn't?
 
I'll need to make some coffee.. let me know if you want me to spill it.
 
oh
yep, got it
hint: (a+|b)* also matches the entire string
that is a fascinating footgun
so does (b|a*)*
 
Yup :) That was pretty fast :)
 
9:42 AM
Uh, no...
(b|a*)* matches the entire string; (a*|b)* doesn't.
The latter generates multiple matches.
 
that is what I said, isn't it?
 
How are your examples relevant then?
I'm still hung up on the problem statement.
 
..and someone said regex isn't as much fun as chemistry :)
 
(a*|b)* does match b's.
It definitely isn't. In chemistry, you at least get to blow things up.
 
The problem statement is: "why does (a*|b)* not match the entire string in a single match?"
 
9:44 AM
Oh.
Yeah, I totally misunderstood the problem statement then.
You don't want a capturing group at all.
 
and I initially mistook multiple matches covering the entire string as matching the entire string (prompting the "oh, errr")
 
Just [a*|b]*
 
@CodyGray lol!..
 
@CodyGray that also matches aaabbb**||
 
I honestly thought Cody was being funny here :)
 
9:47 AM
What are a few false positives between friends?
 
@CodyGray new Charcoal motto? :-)
 
Actually you could just [(a*|b)]* :)
 
@Scratte and with that horrifyingly misleading regex, I'm going to bed now ;-)
 
...with dreams of special characters and cryptic expressions dancing in his head... 🎶
 
10:01 AM
ohhh, regex
I had pinned a few posts in a room where I am owner but they seem to have been unpinned by a moderator; is there a reason for that, in general? I mean, is there a rule against pinning room metainformation messages?
 
They even attract e's ;)
 
reeegeeex
 
When did you pin them?
 
prrrrrobably 2017-ish?
 
:O I was told in the Winter Bash room that Room Owner pinned messages are unpinned automatically after 14 days.
 
10:04 AM
in Charcoal HQ on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Dec 30 '20 at 1:17, by Makyen
@thesecretmaster Each user who's eligible to pin a message (i.e. each moderator and each room owner) can pin any individual message a single time. The pin lasts for up to 14 days, or until unpinned, if unpinned before the 14 days elapses. Each of those users can pin a message which had been previously pinned by someone else, but can not re-pin a message which they have previously pinned. In other words, a single message can be pinned for a total of 14 days * (#moderators + # room owners).
 
ahhhh ... thanks
 
Ah, if that's true, my self-pinned message in here about mod flags should be expiring veeeeeery soon. It was pinned nearly 14 days ago.
 
Does this mean that you pinned then in 2017, but didn't notice they were automatically unpinned until 2021? :D
 
The backlog is long.
 
I have been unstarring other starred messages to keep them near the top but it was finally becoming untenable, even in a low-traffic room
 
10:09 AM
That seems somewhat abusive :-)
 
The funny thing that is if a message is not ever pinned, a star can keep it on the starboard until it's pushed off by other starred posts. But once it's pinned, no starring will keep it there.
 
10:20 AM
I'm finding all kinds of gems stashed away at Stack.. like this one (?!abc)abcde
In it's defense it's not the only thing in the post.. but still :)
 
the tag has improved a lot since Wiktor stepped up and started curating it, but it's still a morass of posts of precisely the type Stack Overflow was supposed to save us from
 
I'm having great fun though. I have a list of 35 posts with somewhere between 3 and 30 Answer on each to go through :D
The regex that never matches on anything above got a score of +18/-0 :D
 
 
4 hours later…
2:51 PM
@CodyGray Oh, I did not know that. I'm very glad that this was the conclusion that was reached :) I'm looking forward to those changes, whenever you get the time to do that, of course.
 
 
6 hours later…
8:26 PM
Me too :)
 
8:57 PM
 
@cigien You found a really strange post on meta, huh? :)
 
I don't get it :p What post are you referring to?
 
The wasting time post. Have you noticed the many cycles of close/reopen ? :)
 
Ah, the one I voted to reopen 2 days ago. I had to go to the active page on Meta to see what you were talking about; I'd forgotten about it. Looks like it got bumped because of an edit, so maybe it'll be reopened. I hadn't seen the close/reopen cycles actually. That's ... interesting.
 
9:14 PM
It's also not in the reopen queue anymore. But yes, maybe it'll get reopened :)
I find it to be a very good Question. I even like the quirky phrasing. It's bound to upset some people, but it's kind of right in a way :)
 
Yeah, it's a reasonable question. My main issue is that the closure just seems wrong. Frankly, I think the POB option should be disabled for [discussion] questions.
 
I agree. It's meta. It's suppose to solicit opinion. I think people just don't like it. Were you going to answer it?
 
No. The question is focused on answering questions on Main, and I've reduced doing that a lot. If the question was more about spending time on SE as a whole, then I might answer it. Actually, if it gets reopened, maybe I'll write that answer anyway :)
 
When you say "reduced doing that a lot", I'm a bit confused :D You seem to still do that a lot from my perspective :)
 
Answering questions on Main? I used to write 5-6 answers a day till I found SOCVR :) Now, I doubt I've answered 5 questions in the last week.
It's all relative I guess :)
Some users write over 20 answers a day.
 
9:28 PM
Right. I don't understand how it's possible. But I guess they do it a lot differently than if I was to post an Answer.
 
Oh, absolutely. I've read a few of your answers, and I think it would be impossible to write answers like that with any frequency.
 
The early ones are not in the same category though. I think they took less time. Also less text, but not less testing :)
I had no idea what anyone in chat would read those. Especially when it's not their technology.
Yes! I found a great example of a reluctant quantifier that makes a regex take more steps :)
 
Reluctant? Do you mean non-greedy? I've not heard that terminology before, but I like it.
 
Java calls them reluctant Pattern. Some call them "lazy", but I don't like that one, because it's not actually lazy.
 
Oh, I didn't know Java called them that. That's nteresting, thanks :)
 
9:44 PM
I was playing with this one. Removing the reluctant quantifier will reduce the steps :)
I've come to appreciate the Answers that explains things a lot. Solutions are fine, but when reading and trying to understand things, sometimes the information in the documentation isn't what one is looking for. It's more "But how does this really work?" that's interesting. Probably because it's hard to forget what you understand :)
So, in C/C++ you call this one greedy * and this one non-greedy *?. What do you call this one *+ ?
 
10:02 PM
C/C++ doesn't have any special terminology for regexes AFAIK.
 
Where did you pick up the "non-greedy" terminology? :)
 
From learning regexes. It was a long time ago, so I don't remember exactly what resource I used. I've had to revise it multiple times since then. I quite like regexone, I still use that sometimes.
 
That seems nice :)
 
It's similar to the one you shared with me, except it doesn't care about length of regexes and stuff like that. It just tries to build up the basics of how they work.
 
I'm going by topic and trying to work out any thinkable cornercase.
The very long Stack posts have lots of little quircks and discussion (they do.. in comments) that gives extra insight.
 
 
1 hour later…
11:17 PM
@cigien SOCVR (and maybe moderation in general?) seems to broadly have this effect on people...it's very interesting.
 
Maybe it's the fear of closure?
 
Nah, I never asked many questions in the first place.
And for the most part, I know how to write a question that won't get closed.
Also, I found Law.SE, which I quite enjoy contributing on.
I've never asked a question there, though. It still shows me the "You’re ready to ask your first question and the community is here to help! To get you the best answers, we’ve provided some guidance..." dialog when I click the button.
 
I didn't mean for writing a Question. I mean for providing an Answer to a Question that may or may not get close votes.
 
Ah, there's definitely an aspect of "meh, this question should be closed, I won't answer it"
 
I guess we're all different. I'm fearful that a close vote will come, even if the post is fine.
 
11:28 PM
or for some of them, "the OP is clearly confused at a very fundamental level; this is likely a chameleon question"
 
I initially started to "study Stack" to find out which posts got closed, so I could just avoid those. Then I realized that no posts are exempt from the close votes.
 
Ah, well...I have reopen votes and I'm prepared to use them on questions I answer. I also usually edit the question to polish it.
 
@RyanM I don't fear those. I have no problems with that at all. I had one such and I complained about it to the Question author and it worked out.
 
Something like this attracts close votes; this doesn't, because it's polished and clear.
2
 
@RyanM That the first revision would attract close votes is, in my opinion, just ridiculous. It's the same Question.
On the topic of "chameleon Questions", I'll voice my opinion on posts where I'm not involved at all as well. Directing the Question author to post a new Question instead of invalidating Answers.
 
11:37 PM
That's good, that's helpful
 
It seems to be more effective than just the answerer saying it..
 
I think another part of why I answer fewer questions is that I've changed my aim to answering questions that I can imagine helping people other than just the original asker.
That question, for instance, is a good example: that guidance has existed for a long time in Android, so people will logically wonder if it applies in a new UI toolkit as well.
 
I'm on the fence about that. Unless it's a very specific debug Question, then I'm not able to tell if a post will be useless to others.
 
I could, of course, tell everyone which variable is null in their NullPointerExceptions, but that's not very scalable...
 
Wouldn't you need a new stack-site for that entire topic? non-reusable-poster-specific-android-nullpointerexception-help-desk.stackexchange.com?
 
11:43 PM
they'd get a lot of migrations...
 
Is it not in Java 15 that the NullPointerException now includes the null variable? (Android will probably get the update around 2035?)
 
Android's had that for aaaaaaaaaages
 
Huh?.. then why all the posts?
 
well, not the variable name, but the type and the method. See here
 
@RyanM That lovely canonical.. Have you considered accepting your own Answer, so you can use it as a target? :)
 
11:46 PM
...it did not occur to me that I could do that, honestly...
 
Ah! Knowing all the quircks and secrets of the inner workings of Stack has its advantages.
If I get gold in Java, I'll reopen it ;)
 

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