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12:28 PM
@flawr wrong language
 
what about matlab++? :)
 
1:00 PM
@flawr yes, they are starting out. But this is obviously homework, so they have a teacher that told them that classes must mirror real-world things and their properties. I know this happens a lot. I know OOP is taught by people that never needed to write a real-world complex program using OOP, and their understanding of OOP comes from classes taught by people that never had to write a real-world complex program using OOP.
 
And there's a lot of difference between java OOP, python OOP and matlab OOP. You can't just tell people to "learn OOP".
 
That’s fair. I have not much experience with OOP, but classes in MATLAB certainly are different from classes in C++.
 
me neither, I just know there are pretty substantial differences
and not just because Python is weird with OOP as usual
 
1:16 PM
My first C++ book started off with a skeleton program that was a class Application with some variables and a single function Run. The main() instantiated an object of class Application and called its Run function. Shit. That was just pointless, and the variables were all global variables. The class was an excuse to have global variables without calling them global. Put me off from C++ and OOP for a decade!
 
that's exactly Java I think
 
I’m still not keen on OOP. Love classes for some things, but OOP is strange to me.
 
In Java you can't have functions. Everything has to be a method! Hence pointless classes.
@CrisLuengo there are certain problems for which classes are useful, otherwise they are a waste of bandwidth and bytes
 
Yes, I’ve seen that. A class with only static method. How pointless can a language limitation be?
 
in particular, if you need state, and functions that operate on the state, it might make sense to have classes
@CrisLuengo have I linked this yet? steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006/03/…
 
1:18 PM
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні I’m always happy to find other people think like me on this!
 
@CrisLuengo Right, or similarly with apples and oranges, but it can be a little bit fruitless:)
But I think you can also arguet that you can do object oriented programming without any constructs of classes or objects in the typical oop sense - you could also do oop in Haskell
 
@flawr I'm glad you appended that last bit. Saves me making the point that doing imaginary OOP works fine with imaginary code :P
But yes, you can also do OOP in C. It just needs more elbow grease because the language doesn't give you syntactical sugar for it.
 
haha
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні right!
 
1:36 PM
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні hilarious!
“advocating Object-Oriented Programming is like advocating Pants-Oriented Clothing.”
@flawr You can do object oriented programming without objects? No, that makes no sense. You can do OOP without classes, but not without objects.
 
It’s the core concept of OOP. An object is something that encapsulates data and behavior.
It is an abstract concept.
You don’t need a functionality in the language that represents an object, but the object is the core of the OOP design.
 
but the object can be something a struct in C
Can't a namespace with a public API do encapsulation?
 
1:56 PM
@CrisLuengo I meant you don't need a feature in your language that groups/encapsulates data. I think you can view OOP more as how you think about a problem.
 
@flawr yes, it is. Agreed.
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні or just a bunch of separate variables and functions. I am talking about the abstract concept, not the language features.
 
OK, then I'm not sure about your objection about "needing objects"
separate variables and functions are usually not what you mean by "an object"
 
OOP is a way to design software. You then implement that design. The design is built up around objects. How you map those objects in the implementation is irrelevant for it to be OOP.
 
OK, so we're back to 'define "object'
 
23 mins ago, by Cris Luengo
It’s the core concept of OOP. An object is something that encapsulates data and behavior.
 

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