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8:23 AM
@AnderBiguri you're using conda too right?
I just found the mamba project, where they basically reimplemented conda in c++
you can install it and just use mambda instead of conda in your conda-related commands, and things can be a lot faster!
 
 
2 hours later…
10:38 AM
in Python, 12 hours ago, by Andras Deak -- Слава Україні
I don't usually use conda, but when I do it's the bane of my existence. See "Missing --no-site-packages option".
 
 
1 hour later…
11:46 AM
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні I guess they must have fixed that issue
 
@flawr uhhhh I use it for other things, not TIGRE
ehe
 
@AnderBiguri they don't live in south america as anacondas do:P
 
hahahha
 
12:01 PM
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні so is this about using pip in a conda environment right?
I thought conda maintains its own site-packages directory?
 
I also tried with conda and it still found the site packages
although I can't repro now
might be due to a pip vs conda interaction then
it's still pretty bad
I specifically needed a pip install (just can't remember why...)
 
right, apparently there is an environment variable that you can set though: github.com/conda/conda/issues/8770
I've never ran into a problem because I never wanted to touch the systems python installation for my own shenanigans
 
Yes, as mentioned in the issue I linked
"It's a feature because we're python agnostic"
"You can fix it with an envvar"
@flawr I don't touch that either.
 
ok then I think I don't understand the actual issue yet
ah ok, so there is a global site-packages and one per conda environment
 
12:17 PM
yes
And I don't touch the global site-packages, but there's shit there exactly because of system python
 
but if you pip install a package, it will first search in the global, and only then in the one within your conda environment
 
indeed
it will tell you that it's already installed
when you try to run code and the version is too old, you see the /usr/lib/... path in the traceback
 
will it? I thought it would just link it
 
then you do pip install foo and it tells you it's already installed
 
hm what could I try this with
 
12:18 PM
then you do pip install -U foo and it complains it can't change /usr/lib/...
@flawr link what?
@flawr I ran into pillow
 
link to your venv environment
 
@flawr you can do pip freeze with your system python to see what's installed there
 
(link from the venv environment to the site-packages, so you don't have that package twice on your disk)
 
@flawr don't be silly :P
the whole point of venvs is to isolate
 
but I thougth that is the issue here, if you use pip install within your venv environment, the environment will only have a link to your site-packages if it is found there.
it will not have a complete copy unless you specify --no-site-packages
 
12:21 PM
Well, with normal venvs you never see site-packages, which is the sane choice
@flawr no, --no-site-packages is the venv default
and when you don't have --no-site-packages then it merely includes site-packages as known packages
running into the same issue probably, free of conda
 
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні but when you use pip install outside of a venv environment it is not?
 
@flawr when you use pip install outside a venv there's no --no-site-packages to speak of, because --no-site-packages is a venv switch
when you use pip outside a venv it first looks up ~/.local/lib via pip install --user stuff, then site-packages (I think)
anyway, gotta ride home, be back later
 
cu!
 
12:34 PM
I still don't quite understand in what situation this issue arises, but I gotta do some work now!
 
 
8 hours later…
8:15 PM
$ python3 -mvenv tmp_env
$ . tmp_env/bin/activate
(tmp_env) $ pip freeze
(tmp_env) $
(tmp_env) $ deactivate
$ conda create -n tmp_conda_env
<snip>
$ conda activate tmp_conda_env
(tmp_conda_env) $ pip freeze
aiohttp==3.8.1
aiosignal==1.2.0
appdirs==1.4.4
apsw==3.34.0.post1
async-timeout==4.0.2
attrs==20.3.0
Automat==20.2.0
backcall==0.2.0
bcrypt==3.1.7
beautifulsoup4==4.9.3
Brlapi==0.8.2
certifi==2020.6.20
chardet==4.0.0
charset-normalizer==2.1.0
chrome-gnome-shell==0.0.0
click==7.1.2
colorama==0.4.4
@flawr like that ^
 
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні Thank you very much!
I'm on a different computer now so I cannot try it right now, are these packages now available within the conda environment or does pip just think they are available while they actually are not?
As I understand it they are available, but they aren't installed in the environment, but onl in the systems site-packages, is that correct?
 
actually, that example was unfair because it didn't have python installed, so pip was actually system pip
this is what I see when I install python:
(tmp_conda_env) $ pip freeze
certifi @ file:///opt/conda/conda-bld/certifi_1655968806487/work/certifi
so the site packages don't show up there
oooh hold on
Yeah, OK, I was worried for a moment that I was using a shell session where I had already enabled PYTHONNOUSERSITE
so I'm back to "not sure why I don't see site packages now"
 
8:37 PM
ok I'll have to try this on my work machine, I'd really like to understand what's going on
 
well I can't reproduce it yet so... :P
but it definitely seems like a thing, considering Ralf's issue (he's a big numpy-scipy-etc. guy)
 
9:15 PM
Something that reminded me of the complaints of a teacher of mine in high school. He had different issues, of course, but the same root cause.
Great way to get competitive people to join Spanish Academia!
 
heh
"challenge accepted"
 
I believe you!
The Dutch also like their apostilles, but they’re definitely not needed in Academia.
 
I think our situation is not this bad
not sure, I've never been a foreign postdoc here
very few people make that mistake
 
Maybe a lot of people try, but fail to produce all the documents. :)
 

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