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05:00 - 13:0013:00 - 00:00

5:27 AM
G'Afternoon Guys!
 
 
2 hours later…
7:27 AM
Good morning.
 
It is morning, sir.
 
It is, it is. Sharp observation innit?
 
indeed
It is always morning somewhere, or so I've heard.
 
Yes, yes, quite true. Wonderful insight on your part.
 
Thank you. I observe also that you've said I have good insight twice.
Maybe you weren't aware that you did. But I'm an expert observer, so I noticed.
 
7:37 AM
I'm keen to highlight the good points in your observed behavior and share the findings for all to see.
Very good sir.
 
Top of the day to you, sir.
 
7:51 AM
yo
*scans message upwards*
I'm really bringing down the tone and quality of conversation, huh?
 
ohayou
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Dun worrie 'bout it laddie, yur mighty fine!
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan How about we all keep calm and carry on, jolly good fellow. You know you really must work on that accent, govna'.
That was my sad pathetic (and probably offensive) english accent attempt
 
...and once again, my tone and quality are above the median for the room. Yay!
 
8:12 AM
good morning
 
Buenos dias
 
안녕하세요
looks like greetings party.
:thinking:
 
There ain't no party like a greetings party 'cause a greetings party is polite and interested in other people's state of mind.
 
8:30 AM
meow
 
mr5
8:46 AM
@Arphile annyeonghaseyo
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan (and they don't stop)
 
Greetings, fellow patrons of this establishment
 
mr5
a business organization, public institution, or household.
so which one are we?
 
Playing FireEmblem in NS. NPC said "surrender to your doom".
 
Another definition: a group in a society exercising power and influence over matters of policy, opinion, or taste, and seen as resisting change.
C# Chat is a proud group of individuals excercising power and influence over those who come in here, and we don't like change
or something
 
9:01 AM
I hate change right now.
Especially when projects fail to build because fucking Google decided to 'fuckyall' and have a breaking android studio update install and hell breaks loose
 
Why can't everyone be more like Microsoft when making changes
 
Because Microsoft is the cornerstone example of good update practices?
 
I sense sarcasm, but in terms of existing functionality, they are
 
In a very general sense, I don't hear a lot of positive or negative comments about how software companies handle updates, but I have heard negative comments on how Microsoft handles updates
So that's already a point against them, is it not?
 
Yeah but backwards compatibility
 
mr5
9:07 AM
I hate Steam for making me update Dota 2 every damn time I play it
Each update cost me 20 minutes of my life. They're not minding those people who have slow internet connection Y_Y
 
How much time does the Windows 10 user spend to adapt and get comfortable when upgrade from Windows7/8?
WHERE THE HELL IS MY YUCKING CONTROL PANEL GO?!!?
 
Windows 10 can still run massive amount of software from the past 20 years. The baseline standard for Windows update stability is higher than most alternatives.
 
yeah, why did they remove a link to the control panel?
 
hey guys, I've trying for the last 3 days or so to retrieve coordinates from a bing map using C#, the map is loading just fine and I've been able to get the coordinates of the center of the current rectangle by using the arrows, but now I'd like to get them by clicking on a specific place on the map

Now this is what I've been tackling but so far the program isn't responding with anything, no errors, no exceptions.... just nothing:
The XAML file
https://justpaste.it/4zfih

the .CS file:

https://justpaste.it/7htqn
 
Did they replace it with some "easy" shortcut like windows button + c that I'm not aware of?
 
9:09 AM
Meanwhile that time in Malaysia: "Sorry Cortana is not supported in your area."
Users almost flipping their table to find the control panel
 
one sin that microsoft has continually made with windows is to stuff all the advanced controls and features into some very hard-to-find places. If you never have to do anything particularly sophisticated, all is fine and good, but you ever need to do something remotely difficult and the list of instructions can be extensive
 
Windows 7 was released 10 years ago. I'm pretty sure Ubuntu's interface, for instance has changed quite a bit in that time. OSX too.
I'm not very familiar with OSX, but this article is interesting: macobserver.com/analysis/going-back-snow-leopard
 
meoow
!!meow or morn
 
ok
 
of course. %windir%\System32\DevicePairingWizard.exe.. How silly of me, it was on the tip of my tongue
 
Few days later then we found tons of blog that said the control panel is hidden in right click of Start button.
Finally user get to set their mouse speed
 
Yeah, I don't particularly like the fact that Windows 10 migrated about 10% of the Control Panel to the Settings app, and each update moves 10% more, but for now you never now what you'll find where.
 
I still don't understand why an XBox app needs to take space on the start menu, but the freakin' control panel was not considered to be important enough
 
lol if you need Cortana to handle your pc maybe you shouldnt use a pc at all
 
9:18 AM
I understand the push, and it may very well be that in a few years time, the "older" users will be easily spotted because it will be the ones who don't favor using Cortana for everything
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan it makes things easier to find if everything is in the settings app
because, you know you will find your stuff in the settings app
in before, you knew you would find your stuff "on your computer"
^ MsLogic.exe
 
I don't like a tool that sends my every query onto the internet because of "convenience". A local search works fine. Fuck Cortana.
 
Nah, things liek control mouse
 
I didn't like "My Computer" when Microsoft was pushing that
 
too bad win7 support runs out next year
:(
 
9:21 AM
Like what was the point of that? the whole machine is my computer, so how is a "My Computer" better organizing things for me?
 
Jesus christ how old are you to remember that
 
just an arbitrary grouping of things
 
very old
 
old enough to have used 95 and lived to tell the tale
 
@Hans1984 I still use a win7 start popupmenu... thingy
 
9:22 AM
@Neil Because the control panel is being deprecated in favor of the Settings app. It's only halfway there, but already hidden.
 
My Computer is very oddly named, but it's very useful
 
which includes all the win7 control panel links
 
the first windows I ever used must have been windows 3.1 at a friends house
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan couldn't they, I don't know.. left the control panel until the Settings app was finished?
 
and they link to the correct place to find my settings
 
9:22 AM
The Control Panel has ~20 years of Windows code in it.
I think migrating it in pieces is bad, but the alternative was worse.
 
The settings app is wank anyway. What if I want to open 2 settings windows at a time? NOPE
 
they reorganized the hell out of it too
the old control panel had a thousand icons in it
 
Back to XP, we have tons of themes, cursors, sounds
 
@Neil A lot of things in the Windows 95 terminology were oriented towards non-power-users, so we got left out of a lot of the planning. But that's fine, because we're power users, so we can handle that.
 
I don't know how oriented they are towards non-power users if they hide the control panel
 
9:24 AM
uxtheme.dll was a wonderful thing
 
How many older people are going to start using windows 10 and never be able to access that panel?
 
Except it relied on GDI for drawing the themes, so when DWM came along it kindan died
 
@Neil Well, non-power-users don't use the control panel
 
And how many times will my parents ask me where the control panel is? Current count is 5
 
When Im in primary school, I learned how to start a Windows maze that run automatically.
 
9:25 AM
The Windows 95 screensaver one?
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Yeah I don't accept that philosophy. :P
 
@Neil That's fine. I assume Microsoft has the telemetry data to back that up. :)
 
It can be rare, admittedly, but it isn't like you'd never need to change your resolution or find a new device, or whatever
 
Hell, I'm a power user and I use the control panel maybe a couple of times a year.
I don't think I've ever changed my resolution via the control panel.
Always right-click on the desktop.
 
I'm using it loads recently for configuring servers and shnit
 
9:26 AM
Well once it's set, you generally wouldn't change your resolution
but you still have to set it the first time
 
Although on the note of the new UWP Display settings screen
Can we agree its fucking awful
 
@Neil Do you? I haven't seen a computer that didn't auto-configure to the optimal resolution when you first installed it.
Not for years.
 
Tehre's so much wasted space
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Ok, well what if you have a hard time seeing and want to set high contrast settings?
 
In newer versions IIRC the resolution dropdown has been buried further and isn't even on that screen anymopre
 
9:29 AM
People like my dad aren't power users and still need that
 
mr5
@Neil haha
 
@Neil High Contrast settings have been in the Settings app since day one for Windows 10.
Been switching a lot to High Contrast mode recently as we're doing accessibility pushes in our app (so switching resolutions a lot, too) and I have to say it's easier, or as easy, as in any previous edition of Windows.
Is it identical? No. But then, we accept that things do change occasionally, right?
Because so far I hear a lot of complaints like "things are a bit different than they were 10 years ago!", which is of course true, but, you know, you deal with it.
Some things are badly done, like the fact that it's hard to tell if a given setting has already migrated to Settings or not, but I accept it as a part of the gradual migration, curse a bit and move on. I still believe it's the lesser evil.
 
an attempt was made
 
@Wietlol Heh, obviously this should have been catch { // log } without specifying the exception type, because now you have a compiler warning about an unused variable.
 
i also have this
3 times
 
9:38 AM
errors have to fight against that suppression
 
fixed it
now an error fights it
 
good
 
this is also fun
> Exception rethrow possibly intended
> possibly
> intended
no u
 
All good points made by the compiler.
 
ye, its horrible code
 
9:41 AM
infinite exception loop
 
however, would that rethrow ever be intended?
it hides the true stack trace
 
Yeah, I can't think of any real-world scenarios where I would want that rethrow.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Well clearly they're substituting it with something else. I doubt very much that Microsoft would completely eliminate that possibility. That said, with your logic, you could justify any sort of change really
Lets get rid of the start menu and replace it with something equally elaborate but different. That shouldn't create problems to the elders
Lets make Cortana serve as the new means to open up programs by voice. Should be intuitive and simple, rigiht? etc.
Fast-forward to every programmer in the world receiving a call from his or her mother asking how to run the Word application
 
@Neil That's what they did with Windows 8. It was terrible, and they rolled it back.
Cortana isn't available in Israel, so I have no idea what integration it might have in Windows. Simply doesn't exist here.
 
I never use Cortana admittedly, so I couldn't tell you what that does
 
9:50 AM
The fact is that I've seen people, including my parents, migrate to Windows 10. I saw their pain points, and what wasn't their pain points. And my feelings, generally, is that things that were hard before are still hard now. And things that weren't, like opening Word, still aren't/
Not all changes are good. But most of the changes that came up here today are minor and trivial.
 
but should they decide that Cortana can open up Word, it would be a wise decision on Microsoft's part not to eliminate all other means of opening Word imho
regardless of how often they're used
Then, it's their software ultimately
they can do with it what they want
 
@Neil Ah, that's a big question.
 
That wasn't a question though :P
 
There's a case to be made (and is made, by Apple, for instance, on their phones) that an OS should be a managed environment, where you can't "do what you want because it's your software", because that leads to a bad user experience.
 
I'm pretty sure Apple can change it up however they want
There is simply a strong incentive to not piss off your typical user because your revenue very much depends on having a happy user
that might change should apple decide to make every iPhone in the world a solid brick and useful to no one
 
10:15 AM
hello
how to convert this string
var dt = "Thu Feb 15 03:00:00 AST 1988";
to datetime??
 
first, try crying
if that throws an exception
then try DateTime.ParseExact
or maybe just DateTime.Parse
 
DateTime.TryParse > error
Convert.ToDateTime > error
DateTime.Parse > error
DateTime.ParseExact(dt2, "ddd MMM dd HH:mm:ss zzz YYYY", CultureInfo.InvariantCulture)
DateTime.ParseExact(dt2, "ddd MMM dd HH:mm:ss zzz YYYY", CultureInfo.InvariantCulture)
Error
i don't know if this format "ddd MMM dd HH:mm:ss zzz YYYY" is correct
 
maybe just parse it using regex?
 
@IbrahimAlsurkhi None is "correct"
 
> String was not recognized as a valid DateTime because the day of week was incorrect.
(wait, that might have been my mistake)
 
10:25 AM
:o
 
how to convert date using regex
 
nope, the data is incorrect
 
do you mean this date is not cuurect
"Thu Feb 15 03:00:00 AST 1988"
correct *
 
Mon
not Thu
AST is your problem tho
 
How did you know that?
 
10:29 AM
SO says you have to replace the timezone part with the timezone's offset
because I can parse "Mon Feb 15 03:00:00 1988"
 
AST – Arabia Standard Time (Standard Time)
 
but I cannot parse "Mon Feb 15 03:00:00 AST 1988"
> AST – Atlantic Standard Time (Time Zone Abbreviation)
 
i know but this is AST – Arabia Standard Time (Standard Time)
not AST – Atlantic Standard Time
 
mr5
AST is clearly Antarctica Standard Time
 
10:33 AM
https://www.timeanddate.com/time/zones/ast-arabia
https://www.timeanddate.com/time/zones/ast
 
-_-
why are there timezones with the same name?
 
i don't know?
 
still, you have to replace the AST part
 
its clearly
 
Console.WriteLine(DateTime.ParseExact("Mon Feb 15 03:00:00 1988", "ddd MMM dd HH:mm:ss yyyy", CultureInfo.InvariantCulture));
Console.WriteLine(DateTime.ParseExact("Mon Feb 15 03:00:00 AST 1988", "ddd MMM dd HH:mm:ss ZZZZZ yyyy", CultureInfo.InvariantCulture));
 
10:37 AM
AlienStandardTime
 
first works, second doesnt
independent of how many "z" there are
independent of casing
(i did not try with more than 5 "z")
 
mr5
@Hans1984 no. it's AsianStandardTime
Our continent is so small it just covers 1 timezone
 
its Amsterdam-Shipyard-Tower
@mr5 antartica?
 
but your are change Thu to Mon
 
> Abstract Syntax Tree
@IbrahimAlsurkhi according to gregorian calendar, 1988/02/15 = Mon
what calendar did you use?
 
10:40 AM
GREGORIAN CALENDAR IS BEST CALENDAR
 
mr5
@Wietlol errr
 
Is it possible to differ from timezone to timezone?
 
mr5
But who is Gregor?
 
@LeeButler KING JULIAN CALENDAR!!!
 
10:42 AM
Nah fuck julian. Prick
 
@IbrahimAlsurkhi the timezone is quite an issue, if its ambiguous
but if you are certain that Thu is correct, you might have a more serious issue
since neither the gregorian calendar, nor the julian calendar have 1988/02/15 as Thu
 
in Julian calendar 1988/Frb/15 = Su
 
What the hell is that notation
ISO-8601 or kick
 
shrugs
 
@IbrahimAlsurkhi yes
@LeeButler its common tho
1988 Ferbuari 15
 
10:48 AM
Silly dutch people can't spell months
 
> Frb
I dont think Ibrahim is dutch
now im actually wondering... is there a good library that supports more than just the gregorian calendar?
and that can list all calendars
 
Thank you for your thought there is an error in the date provided by the client
@Wietlol thank you
 
you still should find a way to deal with the stupidity of the timezone
 
i will ask client about timezone
 
how do I purge my nuget dep list?
 
11:16 AM
The switchover was bitterly opposed by much of the populace, who feared it was an attempt by landlords to cheat them out of a week and a half's rent. However, the Catholic countries of Spain, Portugal, Poland, and Italy complied. France, some states of the Dutch Republic and various Catholic states in Germany and Switzerland (both countries were religiously split) followed suit within a year or two, and Hungary followed in 1587.
gosh darn it thats fun
social serf inequality in the year 1580
 
11:45 AM
@Wietlol Just do what I do. Year floating points
 
meh
nanoseconds since 1900-1-1 0:00:00 UTC (Gregorian)
(can be negative)
 
2019.13561643835616438356164383561644
 
floating point with that precision?
 
Good sir, could you give me the time? Why certainly! It's
2019.13561643835616438356164383561644!
well at that point, probably best to use a double
 
double is also an fp... but im not sure about its precision range
 
11:48 AM
besides, the fact that it is long doesn't mean it's precise :P
 
reminds me of this
 
its precision is its length
its accuracy might be off
 
precision != accuracy
 
1.273498237895787589235723758237401751237048172305610238748903274238740213758132‌​7526340372482379
has a huge precision
but is very inaccurate since the actual value was 2
2.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000‌​0000000000000000
 
If you used 3 bits to represent floating point, you could have up to 3 digits to represent a floating point, so like 0.125. Though if the number you were looking for was 0.2, you're precise and not accurate
you can't represent 0.2 using 3 bits in floating point. You can only hope to be as close as 0.125
or no, techncially 0.25
but the point is the same
 
11:51 AM
You can't represent 0 either
But for slightly different reasons
 
isnt 0 in fp all 0 bits? (in IEEE 754)
 
Nope
 
Not for a signed zero
 
The mantissa in a float must dave differint values in the first 2 bits (ie 01 or 10), but 0 requires all bits to be 0
The closest they can do is a mantissa of 0.1 and a exponent of the lowest possible exponent the system can handle
So the value would be something like 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000005
To which most systems would round anything after a reasonable amount of digits and display ti as 0
 
@LeeButler why so?
 
11:56 AM
I don't know, I didn't write the spec
 
and, I would add, the fact that there are so many zeroes doesn't mean it can handle every possible combination of digit where a zero is present
 
Our modern society is based on software. Software is based on numbers. Numbers are based on weird floating point representations and approximations. We're all doomed.
 
Yeah, precision varies. But another obvious thing is not all values can be represented, but you can get damn close to most of them
TLDR don't use floats for money
 
@Neil ye, signed 32 bits IEEE754 floats have a ~7 digit accuracy
 
If for some reason you are, go as big as possible. Definitely don't use singles
 
12:02 PM
but they can have 1024 leading+trailing zeroes
 
howdy o/
Anyone used Signalr with OWIN Selfhost?
Having some issues getting my cors policy to stick
And by issues I mean it doesn't want to actually enforce it
 
hey
 
12:24 PM
Hi guys, is there a keyboard shortcut in MSV for navigating to previous file? There is CTRL + - that does almost what I want. The thing is that it tracks cursor positions rather than simply file positions so I often need to press the shortcut several times before I get to previous file.
 
MSV?
And what do you mean 'Previous file'?
 
*MSVS - Visual studio. Sorry I made a typo.
When you have two tabs (A, B) in MSVS opened and you put cursor to the other file, than you can press CTRL+- and you get immediately to tab A.
When you have two tabs (A, B) in MSVS opened and you put cursor to the other tab AND do something for a while (i.e. jumping in the tab with your cursor), than you NEED to press CTRL+- SEVERAL TIMES so that you get to tab A.
(file ~ tab)
 
Linq question
foo.FirstorDefault(x => x.fooCollection.Any(expresion))

Why does it work?
 
Ohh. So that's the shortcut for going to the previous method or whatever you were on
 
Am I exploiting linq statement batching or this is expected to work
 
12:34 PM
@Raimonds x.fooCollection.Any(expresion) returns a bool. Maybe you're looking for x.fooCollection.Where(expresion)
 
nope
 
That will just return true or false
 
It works like I want it to work, but it shouldn't I think
 
There's zero benefit at all to putting it inside a FirstOrDefault
 
Any gives bool that satisfies FirstorDefault
 
12:35 PM
@LeeButler It seems to track cursor positions. Not methods. I think.
 
Where will give me collection, I need single item
 
Yeah something to that effect
@Raimonds So what exactly are you trying to get
 
And I need any to get that item from array inside foo, there are 4 foo items with 11 items in each array inside
I am getting what I want I just don't understand why
First or default usually wants some kind of condition
like x.id == someId
 
What is foo and what is fooCollection
 
I pass in Any
which gives me bool but how does it know that its my item
foo ic class which has fooCollection which is collection of other complex class
 
12:37 PM
FirstOrDefault doesn't take a condition, it takes an IEnumable
 
it will return 1 item if condition is met
my condition is Any
which will give true on first met condition and will stop executing after that
 
Is foo derived from an enumerable?
 
yes
 
So then it all makes sense
 
I guess under the hood when linq batches all in 1 loop
it knows about my item
But I haven't seen FirstorDefault with Any as a condition
 
12:40 PM
The statement returns the first item in foo where the item's fooCollection contains an item which evaluates the expression as true
 
I get that, but you would probably expect something more logical I guess
 
Why not? It's just like Collection.FirstOrDefault(x => x.foo = true)
 
yes and no
since actual value is never there for comparison
 
No how?
 
Since Any() gives you boolean
but actual item is under the hood
I need to run more tests, I doubt that code
 
12:43 PM
You're still passing x into the any expression
 
hmm
my bad its y at that point
 
I don't know why you're confused, it makes complete sense and assuming you want to evaluate tit as you are, is a decent way of doing it
 
but I don't think it changes logic
 
> "evaluate tit" --Lee Butler
 
I like to question code :D
 
12:45 PM
I like to evaluate tit
 
Basically what I did was rewrote foreach in foreach to be linq statment
 
This guy gets it tit
 
Tfw I don't
 
test show both values are same
just bit confusing
I think "you are still passing x" part might make sense
 
@MartinVseticka Doesn't Ctrl-Tab always cycle back to the previously focused tab?
 
12:52 PM
Thanks for help, I was actually able to F11 through Linq to see how my x and y changes
Basically when my Any() evaluated to true FirstOrDefault was at correct foo element and it simply returned it
 
Linq is magical
 
Wrong. It's "Friendship is magic" @LeeButler
 
linq is magical, friendship is magical therefor linq is friendship
 
Nah Linq is love. Linq is life
 
Therefore love=life. QED
 
12:58 PM
His name is LINK
!
;)
 
@Hans1984 You mean Zelda
 
yup
:P
 
geez, get it right
 
His name is Zelda, obviously. Not Link. You weird. /s
 
What is love?
Baby don't linq me, don't linq me, no more!
 
12:59 PM
hehe
 
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