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2:45 AM
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3 hours later…
 
3 hours later…
8:32 AM
Morning!
 
 
3 hours later…
11:24 AM
@DenysSéguret Ok, I gotta hand it to Moxie. This wins back some points, although I'm still a bit sour about the mobilecoin thing
Uhh, and if Cellebrite had used Rust they would have nothing to worry about /on-topic
 
@trentcl cough centralised solution, app distribution via Play Store only, no native standalone desktop app, no support for external clients, mandatory phone number link, and the mobilecoin stuff, just to name a few cough
 
@PeterVaro I'm not upset about most of those things. In particular, technologically speaking, some degree of centralization is necessary to get SMS-like behavior (can send messages while the other user is offline). But yes there are other issues.
 
I just noticed that the duplicate target shows how to get the inner value of a Mutex, not a MutexGuard, so it does not apply stackoverflow.com/q/42195706
 
11:44 AM
@trentcl I'm fine with that if I could opt-out if I wanted to. My preferred solution would be to run a client on my own server or more likely on another device that stays connected all the time, which would act as a "dispatcher". I believe the possibility of having all devices offline of all participants in a conversation is insanely low these days.
If the fourth point would be allowed, I could have a service running on all my machines in the background which would do what I described above.
 
@E_net4thecopycat Hmm, I'm not convinced, especially since it was Shep's edit that changed the title
> the possibility of having all devices offline of all participants in a conversation is insanely low these days
@PeterVaro ^ this is not my experience, and probably depends on where you (and the people you're talking to) live
Even so, Signal was never a P2P message service. Even back in the TextSecure days when it just piggybacked on SMS
 
@trentcl I can only speak of my personal experience in two countries I lived in: other decentralised services I use have been up for the last decade basically all the time, 24/7
@trentcl That doesn't mean it could / should not change, does it?
 
@trentcl Where is this question answered, then?
You can't take the inner value off a MutexGuard by design.
 
@PeterVaro Sure, but it doesn't mean it should change, either. It is what it is, if a decentralized solution is what you need, well... Signal is not it, and making it so would be a huge structural overhaul
 
12:02 PM
I agree on this, it would be. And judging by how insanely slow they are and how their focus is on wrongly prioritised features, I wouldn't bet on them that they could deliver this within a reasonable amount of time. And that's where the biggest issue with Moxie comes in (at least mine): he likes to pretend Signal is FOSS but it isn't really at least not how it's managed. Surely others could help with this.
More and more people interested in protecting their privacy and Signal has a large enough user base to motivate engineers to work on it..
 
@E_net4thecopycat I think "How to get the inner value from a MutexGuard?" requires more context, and if it were asked without a code example I would VTC it as needs detail
With this particular question, Mutex::into_inner is the reasonable solution, so I don't object to the dupe.
@E_net4thecopycat You can by clone or copying it, or you can mem::take/replace it (or you can just use it by reference of course)
@PeterVaro A huge user base due in large part to its reliability, which would be hard to achieve with a mesh network, and the low barrier to entry, which would be much higher if you could not do it with a phone number but had to sign up for a federated server
 
@trentcl I strongly disagree with this one. The large user base is because of two main reasons IMO: 1. Good marketing (e.g. Snowden "promotes" them), 2. Low learning curve for non-tech people (most privacy oriented tools are hard to use still)
And of course the third point: people slowly change habits and they don't like jumping from one service to another. And there could be a fourth one as well: there are no alternatives that ticks the box of the first two reasons I listed above.
 
12:23 PM
@PeterVaro The low learning curve is definitely important. And that's what I'm saying is much harder to do with a federated network.
 
Oh, I see where you're coming from. That's why I said I would make it optional and not mandatory.
 
SIP has been around forever. Zoom just popped out of nowhere. Which one does everyone use?
 
Hum, for Arch users, it seems one of the maintainers of yay decided to quit development on it and … rewrote it in Rust.
 
If you wish to switch to decentralised mode, you could do that.
@trentcl Zoom is not in the same league as Signal.. SIP?
@Jason Great stuff if it will work :) I hated the fact that yay was implemented in Go (IIRC)
 
@PeterVaro It's an analogy. Session Initiation Protocol
 
12:26 PM
@Jason But TBF, I don't like that people automatically grab a tool (e.g. Yaourt back in the days, and now Yay) to install stuff from the AUR instead of learning how to do it manually first. That's definitely not good IMO.
@trentcl Silly me, I didn't know it has a name.. but of course why wouldn't it have, right? :upside_down_smile:
 
@PeterVaro I don't necessarily dislike the use of Go as an end-user, but it being written in Rust does make filing an issue / submitting a pull request easier on my end, as I haven't used Go in ages.
 
Oh, yeah, it's more of an elitist kind of thing for me. I have no problem running executables written in any type of language. But if there's a viable Rust alternative, obviously I'm going to prefer that!
(And to be frank, I've been using Yay since it first appeared and I never truly had any problem with it..)
 
Yeah, exactly. The author's experience on the switch from Go to Rust is somewhat interesting:
> One is an #ifdef equivalent. With go I had to maintain two branches for pacman and pacman-git compatible code. Both in the go-alpm and yay repo. It was very annyoying.

> Another is proper generics. In yay I had to implement my own stringset type. Because there is none in the stdlib. And worst of all it only works for strings. We actually define some other ad hoc sets elsewhere in the code.

> The ergonomics, tooling and ecosystem I find to be a lot better in general.
I'll give it a try.
 
@Jason Don't forget to share your experience! ;)
 
Will do :-)
 
 
5 hours later…
5:27 PM
Is that Shep?
 
5:40 PM
Who ?
 
5:51 PM
ohhai
Two weeks of training over
 
 
1 hour later…
6:57 PM
\o
 
7:09 PM
\o
 
7:32 PM
\o/
I didn't think that my missing meme would be so effective
 
8:18 PM
@Stargateur are you running Wayland on Arch?
 
@Jason i3
so no
 
Ah, I'm running into some issues with hardware accelerated video en- and decoding.
I finally have obs running on Wayland.
 
in my opinion wayland sux a little
X is not better but at least it's work
 
It's a bit rough, yeah, but support for most applications seems to be coming along.
 
8:32 PM
@Machavity thx for the invitation to trash can :p
 
@Stargateur Definitely. I'm not knowledgeable enough on the security model, but what's bothersome to me is that I can't have something such as screenkey output the keys pressed.
Thanks @Machavity
 
That was... weird. Feel free to flag stuff like that
@Stargateur Well, the trash can is rusty at the bottom. I thought you might like it
 
8:57 PM
I finally managed to get the hardware video en- and decoding to work @Stargateur
The amount of times I've had to compile ffmpeg and others for this…
 
Hmm, I missed that.
That was weird indeed.
 
9:29 PM
Oo Oo Oo lkml.org/lkml/2021/4/21/143 => lkml.org/lkml/2021/4/21/454 TL;DR: University of Minnesota have been banned from linux kernel
2
and on rust side:
> My God. Lose the horrible CamelCase to begin with. I hope the
language spec does not mandate that because our kernel C style
does not use it. https://lkml.org/lkml/2021/4/22/351
 
9:43 PM
@Stargateur :rolls_eyes:
 
10:08 PM
@Stargateur Now couldn't that sentence be perceptually attached to a grumpier face.
 
10:57 PM
@Stargateur wow
I have strong insults come to mind for these people
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier cse.umn.edu/cs/…
strangely, being ban from contributing to kernel linux is not a good press :p
 
yeah... I'm changing my strong insults to some kind of sadness. this whole thing is sad. I guess that person wanted to add knowledge to the world, but it kinda backfired...
 
knowledge: people can send bad commit
oh really ?
thx for saying this to us
we didn't know !
 
11:10 PM
yeah..
bah, the hockey game is starting, everything's fine
 
my only disappointment is not seeing what linus would have send
 

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