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06:00 - 22:0022:00 - 00:00

6:08 AM
morning
 
6:56 AM
mourning
 
7:50 AM
@JerryCoffin Interesting that you should say that, since from my POV they were "always there" - part of the textbook if you will (or, maybe literally part of the textbook, I can't recall)
@JerryCoffin Now, considering that you came up with it, would you kill it? I think they're now unnecessary
 
user1804599
9:08 AM
Bloom filter: is.gd/XQAxNn
 
user1804599
@JohanLarsson You can have the compiler generate an implementation of Eq and PartialEq for you: is.gd/Cnx8L1
 
elyse in the room, bringing fancy
@elyse prodigy
what does partial eq mean?
 
user1804599
@JohanLarsson Just like Eq, except that a == a is allowed to be false.
 
user1804599
Hence floats are PartialEq but not Eq, since nan != nan.
 
<- lunch
 
user1804599
9:11 AM
impl PartialEq for Point {
    fn eq(&self, other: &Point) -> bool {
        self.x == other.x && self.y == other.y
    }
}
impl Eq for Point { }
 
user1804599
You can also do this.
 
user1804599
]
 
]
 
user1804599
9:27 AM
Yeah my keyboard is terrible.
 
Mine is worse
@elyse How can it be both Eq and PartialEq then?
 
user1804599
Eq requires PartialEq.
 
so partialeq is a modifier?
 
user1804599
Basically, whenever you implement Eq you must also implement PartialEq.
 
user1804599
interface Eq<T> : PartialEq<T> in C# syntax.
 
user1804599
Eq doesn't define any methods, but a == a is assumed to hold for all types that implement Eq.
 
Traits looks nice, nicer than interfaces
 
9:38 AM
Should be enough.
 
ty ty
@R.MartinhoFernandes Luc?
oh, wait I cdan do it
 
Oh. Sure. I just added people in the room that I knew.
 
user1804599
yay
 
user1804599
@JohanLarsson You can implement them for existing types.
 
user1804599
trait Zero {
    fn zero() -> Self;
}

impl Zero for i32 {
    fn zero() -> i32 { 0 }
}
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes pffft :) You'd think
 
user1804599
like this
 
user1804599
i32 already exists, you don't control it, but you can implement new traits for it.
 
Welcome back btw
 
9:41 AM
hi @7sharp9
 
@7sharp9 congrats on the
 
user1804599
The Most Vexing Parse award goes to Bjarne.
 
@elyse yep, that is very very nice. A thing I have missed in C#
Also static interfaces
 
10:04 AM
@elyse Why is impl Bloombetter than writing it the oo way?
 
Is it?
Maybe it's just less closed
 
user1804599
It's not.
 
user1804599
But impl is more flexible.
 
beacsue you can use it for library types?
 
define: beacsue
Faintly expected an entry of Québécois origin
 
10:13 AM
:)
> If you’re writing code that may panic, you should run it in another thread, so that the panic doesn’t bubble up to C
 
user1804599
There's an unstable function for catching panics.
 
Isn't the point of panics fast fail?
I just though the sentence read funny, 'the panic spread to C'
 
10:50 AM
Is it a good thing that shadowing is allowed by default?
Feels like a potential source of confusion
let sdw x = 2;
dunno
maybe it would not solve much
 
11:27 AM
@JohanLarsson ime it’s convenient for affine types, i.e. let x = f(x); let x = g(x); and so on.
at any one time there’s only one x anyway
 
I'm not used to shadowing, thinking it may be confusing.
 
user1804599
@JohanLarsson The point of panics is to make operations like division by zero and out-of-range access terminate the program instead of giving arbitrary results.
 
user1804599
Making division return Option<T> would also be possible, but highly inconvenient.
 
I'm slowly wanking with a constraint thing, testing permutations :)
 
user1804599
11:42 AM
hahaha
 
user1804599
ICEd rustc.
 
user1804599
<std macros>:2:4: 80:10 error: cannot apply unary operator `!` to type `()`
(internal compiler error: unprintable span)
 
12:17 PM
wtf sublime console only one row?
 
user1804599
12:33 PM
my new Rust editor
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
:D :D :D
 
@elyse What's so funny about emacs?
 
user1804599
It's awesome.
 
12:39 PM
room topic changed to Rust: In Rust we trust! [rust]
 
oh I'm room pwner?
I'm not sure I deserve that
 
The more the merrier!
 
I'll probably be here just to make noise from time to time
I can't Rust
 
I'm pretty sure nobody here has gone significantly beyond "Hello Rust"... well, except @BartekBanachewicz maybe.
 
@fredoverflow Did this suddenly become a Minmatar room?
 
12:44 PM
@Griwes I had to look that word up, and I still don't get it :)
If you're asking about the purpose of this room, I'm not sure there is one.
 
@fredoverflow Minmatar is a faction in EVE Online. Their ships are joked to consist only of rust and duct tape.
Hence "in rust we trust".
Actually when CCP was doing their big upgrade of ship models and textures, they joked on their FB profile with a "screenshot" of an "upgraded" Matari ship... which consisted of the typical "space" background and some rolls of duct tape.
 
@AndyProwl It will help you to stay regular
 
I assume EVE is a game? Sorry, not into gaming.
 
The responses generally were along the lines of "we can't agree with you making Matari so overpowered".
Yeah, a space MMO.
 
yay, used superhuman (@sehe) console skills and managed to install sublime package manager behind the proxy
 
@fredoverflow I don't think what I have is really significantly beyond hello world
 
oh gosh. I remember this. Just from within ST console I suppose
 
yes, from the single line
Sublime Rust linter any good?
 
IDGI why people get so obsessed with tools when learning a new language
when I pick a new one I only want syntax highlighting notepad
 
12:51 PM
R# taught me how to C#
 
@BartekBanachewicz Let's just say, when you post Rust code, all I see is a jungle of ampersands :)
 
@JohanLarsson this speaks a lot about C#
 
hmm, installed packages but don't see syntax highlighting
 
@fredoverflow meh, "&x" just means a reference to x and it works both in signatures and in passing
if you don't reference, you can either copy or borrow
and that's pretty much it.
 
solved it
 
12:57 PM
@sehe Thanks, that was a while ago :-)
Whats so good about rust?
 
@7sharp9 Oh really. I just put 1&1 together. It was your latest blog entry, and I think I saw a few awards announcent publicly on twitter just today :)
@7sharp9 Rust doesn't corrode
 
That reminds me I need to do a blog entry on my community hero award, they give awards out like sweets now
 
@sehe 1&1 is 1
 
@7sharp9 I don't know but if you stay regular here you will find out.
 
@fredoverflow You fail at putting 1&1 together
 
1:01 PM
1 and 1 put together is 11
 
hmm, I want to customize sublime to run cargo test etc
and I want buttons to click
 
@LucDanton And 11 minus 1 and minus the other 1 is 9 ---> 9/11
@JohanLarsson So... you want Rust VS plugin?
 
not sure
 
@JohanLarsson I just keep a terminal window open
 
@sehe is Vim free?
4
 
1:03 PM
Charityware.
 
Only got lame jokes last time I asked
gah
 
@JohanLarsson and what would them buttons do? typing "cargo build" seems easy enough
 
Pirates would say it's free if your time is worthless o.O
 
user1804599
Nice:
 
user1804599
(defun cargo-test ()
  (interactive)
  (with-current-buffer "*Cargo Test Output*"
    (display-buffer (current-buffer))
    (erase-buffer)
    (call-process "cargo" nil (current-buffer) t "test")))
(global-set-key (kbd "<f5>") 'cargo-test)
 
1:03 PM
Vim doesn’t ship with (too many) buttons to click and I’m not sure you can add some.
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah but messy with many windows on laptop
 
@JohanLarsson messy? I fit it on 13.3" just fine.
3/4 Sublime text, 1/4 terminal
reasonably big font size
alternatively just use alt-tab vOv
 
ok
do you do struct per file?
 
The question would make sense per module. Why per file?
 
just asking, coming from C#
 
1:08 PM
Does rust have a good editor?
 
Do whatever you want.
 
Or editor support, rather
 
@JohanLarsson no
 
@7sharp9 Sublime text has syntax highlighting & autocomplete
Dunno if any good
 
19 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
IDGI why people get so obsessed with tools when learning a new language
tools solve problems
 
user1804599
1:11 PM
@7sharp9 Emacs and Vim.
 
you don't even know what problems you have yet
 
@7sharp9 The cargo thing looks really nice but it is for project management and not an editor.
@BartekBanachewicz I fail to see how good tools can be bad. Especially when noob.
Awesome with squigglies telling me what is wrong.
 
@JohanLarsson for one they reduce the need for you to memorize things
I think it makes you learn faster if you use your memory more
 
my memory is confirmed broken
 
too used to pwetty tools doing things for you
I'm not against tooling in principle, when you're on a time/budget then sure do whatever to ship the best code possible the quickest way
but if you're trying to actually deepen your understanding, they are noise.
 
1:15 PM
Having a nice type system is partly wasted lacking awesome tooling
 
A compiler with sensible errors for such a type system counts as awesome :)
 
Yeah, the errors looks nice
 
@JohanLarsson ^
 
I write tools for a living, so tools are important
 
Still nice to see them as I type
 
1:17 PM
To me anyway
 
nobody's saying they aren't important
I'm just talking about being able to focus on the essence of what you're creating
best Haskell one-liners take hours if not weeks to write
 
When Im learning something I think good support from somewhere is always nice
 
aaaaaaaaa
snackchat you dumb
 
have seen worse
@7sharp9 I think they sell it as fast and memory safe
 
1:21 PM
5 messages moved to Trash can
@R.MartinhoFernandes @fredoverflow can haz access to moving to bin? :P
 
{
    "tab_size": 4,
    "translate_tabs_to_spaces": true
}
do I want^?
 
:)
Looked like crap when I pushed to github
Never had an issue when using VS, new to Sublime.
 
@Griwes Should work now.
 
@JohanLarsson yes
Rust should be indented with spaces
 
1:29 PM
Protip: when adding room feeds, add them as a ticker instead of posting to the room. Wait for the initial flood, and then change back to posting to the room.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Thanks.
 
> Zawinski didn’t do many unit tests. They “sound great in principle. Given a leisurely development pace, that’s certainly the way to go. But when you’re looking at, ‘We’ve got to go from zero to done in six weeks,’ well, I can’t do that unless I cut something out. And what I’m going to cut out is the stuff that’s not absolutely critical. And unit tests are not critical. If there’s no unit test the customer isn’t going to complain about that.
Thoughts?
 
@fredoverflow depends on the quality of software you want to ship
 
@fredoverflow lol
 
I think 'critical' is used here in a way to stifle any possible discussion.
 
1:30 PM
if you can accept shipping bugs, then not doing tests makes sense
if you want to ship good software, it's much more time efficient to write tests than to hunt bugs
 
@fredoverflow Not true for most projects imo. The retardation level is infinite in the avarege codebase.
 
@fredoverflow well, if the software is going to be thrown away and no longer maintained after those six weeks, I'd be open to discussion. Otherwise, I strongly disagree
 
Writing tests slows things down as you have to write things so they work before done.
@AndyProwl yeah, all code without tests is scary legacy code
 
and by "be open to discussion" I mean I'd probably disagree, but I accept that in some cases, where the software isn't complex and the customer is ok with low quality, some may decide to go for it without regretting
but then again I wouldn't be interested in producing low-quality stuff even if the customer accepts or prefers that
 
That reads like a meme.
 
1:34 PM
I can write test-free code up to 1,000 lines with confidence.
Above that, stuff tends to break, and I don't immediately notice.
 
my confidence ends at about 100 lines
 
Customer: 'I want crap!'
Andy: 'nowai''
 
if they're complicated stuff, probably 50 lines
 
I am confident I can write any number of lines of buggy code.
 
I go under, 5 non trivial lines is usually enough to dumb something
 
1:35 PM
How did people manage to ship quality software before the days of automated testing?
 
My confidence is around 1k too, but only as long as I have a dumb program that actually uses that code in a stupid way. That's not strictly a "test", but that can detect the most stupid breakages.
 
@fredoverflow like WinME?
 
@fredoverflow Did they?
 
@LucDanton Well, we went to the moon and back, for example.
 
@fredoverflow How did people manage to shit before the days of sanitation?
 
1:36 PM
I think they used a rocket
 
@LucDanton with lots of software
 
@fredoverflow Lesson learned: writing software without automated testing is difficult like rocket science.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You don't ship your shit.
 
@fredoverflow Doesn't matter.
 
do you shit your ship though
btw I'd be surprised if they were not doing automated testing on that sw
 
1:38 PM
Just because people lived before the advent of, say, sterilisation doesn't mean doing things without it is a good idea.
 
47 Uncle Bob videos, this is going to be a long day
 
A banner from our CI. :D
 
@fredoverflow you bought them all?
 
Wait, they cost money?
 
1:39 PM
lol
 
yeah, and quite a lot
some of them are definitely worth it
 
Which ones?
 
it's still quite a lot of money for an individual though
among the basic ones I loved episodes 1-3, and episode 6 about TDD (2 parts)
 
So rust on osx, should you just be able to install from the published package?
 
episode 7 is also good
I think I liked episode 9 on SRP
 
1:41 PM
I should probably grab the ones I can from our company-internal learning central thing.
 
episodes 12 and 13, too
 
@JohanLarsson I pay 10 euros a month for it.
 
the ones on Advanced TDD are a bit less strong IMO but still worth watching. The ones about patterns... well, if you can tolerate the pattern talk (I can) :P
but I think Episode 3 and Episode 6 are my favorite
oh there are new episodes on BDD
gotta ask to buy those
 
@AndyProwl Aren't patterns kinda boring by now?
 
@fredoverflow maybe, if you know them well and/or you don't think they're worth knowing. But Uncle Bob usually manages to say at least something interesting or original about it. Granted, for that price and that duration, "something interesting or original" might not be enough. I likely wouldn't buy them myself, but the company did so I enjoyed watching them
 
1:46 PM
@AndyProwl Does your company offer one-week-internships? ;)
 
lol
you can try to get hired and quit after one week
 
@AndyProwl If you're Italian, did you have to cope with a lot of copy/pasta jokes?
 
within 3 months you can just quit & go
@fredoverflow honestly no, more like mafia jokes
copy/pasta would have been better
I didn't have to deal with spaghetti code jokes either
 
Your coworkers are lame. :P
 
1:49 PM
they're all fine people, although some of them are a bit lame programmers
 
bit lame? Send them to C camp to learn masks and stuff.
 
I teach bit stuff on day 8 of my C course.
 
> bit stuff
 
C camping on the bit fields
 
1:51 PM
> Hello? I'd like to order a pizza with extra cheese and bit stuff.
 
sigh
 
@AndyProwl I never got the point of bitfields. I'd rather do the bitshifts myself.
 
I think I've never used a bit field in my life
 
me neither
 
1:53 PM
Wait, is it bit field or bitfield?
 
You two haven't done much direct hardware programming, right?
 
I'm not enough low level I guess
 
@Griwes Why would I want to do that? arduino and friends?
 
@fredoverflow memory mapped registers, paging structures, ...
 
> Why
 
1:54 PM
Nope, never needed that. Only programmed for home computers.
 
@fredoverflow this for example
 
@Griwes Sure, writing an operating system, who doesn't do that? :)
 
oh, time to go home
 
@fredoverflow sane people :D
 
2:33 PM
@Griwes you haven't really heard of this thing called abstractions
 
@BartekBanachewicz bitfields are my abstraction in the case I linked above
They are the abstraction over binary shifts.
 
@Griwes low-level savage
 
@BartekBanachewicz ...what else do you propose for that case?
 
@fredoverflow do you have Pluralsight?
 
@Griwes build another abstraction on top of them
 
2:36 PM
I need literally that: bitfields.
@BartekBanachewicz That... makes no sense.
 
yeah I wouldn't think you're familiar with this "design software in a non shitty way thing"
 
but
 
besides I'm going to do some AST processing soon so I should have a nice counterexample for your n-functor
 
1) using bitfields is a non-issue
 
with typeclasses or whatnot
 
2:37 PM
...that's about it
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Thank you sir. I have no idea why my question induced stars, must have been dumb, maybe in a Stallman way.
 
@JohanLarsson You had an answer right away.
 
@JohanLarsson I just donate because I like it and because it goes to build schools and shit in Africa. It's completely optional.
 
2 hours ago, by sehe
Charityware.
 
ok, it felt like a whoosh :)
oh, so all things were true
 
2:51 PM
this looks promising
 
@JohanLarsson All of the time you'll save by using it is wasted twofold on searching and installing it
 
3:09 PM
@JohanLarsson The only thing you get is voting on features and being listed here vim.org/sponsor/hall_of_honour.php
 
literally pay2win
 
@LucDanton you mean pay2vim?
 
user1804599
(defun cargo-test ()
  (interactive)
  (save-some-buffers)
  (with-current-buffer (get-buffer-create "*Cargo Test Output*")
    (display-buffer (current-buffer))
    (erase-buffer)
    (call-process "cargo" nil (current-buffer) t "test")))
(global-set-key (kbd "<f5>") 'cargo-test)
 
user1804599
Awesome.
 
build script in lisp?
 
3:26 PM
@JohanLarsson Does kind of make sense--it's really all about building and manipulating a tree, and that's pretty much the sort of thing Lisp does well.
 
yeah, looks ok
 
 
1 hour later…
4:41 PM
@JohanLarsson Never heard of that before. Is it worth it?
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow What, you think he's moving to weird places and redressing all the time for free?
 
user1804599
He has a different outfit in every scene, lol.
 
I have never seen him dressed before. Is that why the videos cost money? So he can buy the dresses?
 
user1804599
Emacs uses 100% CPU to fetch a list of packages from the network.
 
user1804599
WTF
 
user1804599
4:45 PM
Reminds me of that time I decided to run Emacs inside a terminal emulator inside Vim, and it didn't terminate when I stopped Vim, and kept hogging the CPU 100% for three days until I noticed, lol.
 
@fredoverflow I can highly recommend it. Watch this on the trial. Despite the description it is awesome. You can skip the first chapter if you want.
@elyse ha
Why do you not use vim at home?
 
user1804599
5:13 PM
Because Vim configuration is an eternal pain.
 
not files that you can version control?
 
user1804599
I don't want to port them to work on Windows.
 
user1804599
:P
 
perl wins?
 
user1804599
No.
 
user1804599
Python.
 
6:10 PM
I like that syntax, comes up pretty often
Is there a fancy pattern match way to do it?
 
user1804599
Maybe you can write a macro.
 
could get ugly with the !
if! 1 < x < 3
:)
we could write a PR for that
 
 
3 hours later…
9:38 PM
@JohanLarsson :(
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oops. I donated once. Must have been ~10 years ago
 
don't be sad
It happens a lot
 
You even said it was the first time to you didn't get a troll response, or something?
9 hours ago, by Johan Larsson
Only got lame jokes last time I asked
 
yeah, I fail at reading
just assumed I wrote something dumb
It was a beautiful stream yesterday, thank you again.
Up there with the piano stream :)
 
@BartekBanachewicz Only if you can't think critically.
@JohanLarsson namaste
 
Lounge is too noisy and this room is too quiet
for x in 0..10 {
    println!("{}", x); // x: i32
}
tight syntax imo
gah, expected ^ to work
@elyse I just dumbed it right?
 
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