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12:17 AM
@giuliolunati Ok, fixed and merged to master. If you can give that a try and see that it works for you, maybe you will have some feedback or ideas...
 
 
6 hours later…
6:34 AM
@HostileFork Yeeeee! Great, I'll try it ASAP.
 
 
2 hours later…
8:09 AM
@giuliolunati Note that rebStartup() now takes no arguments, so rebInit() is gone. Host_Lib is now an internal detail that will be wiped out as time permits.
Long term, I think rebStartup should probably take a string that gets scanned to make some kind of Rebol config options. So if you don't have any special requests, you would say rebStartup("") or maybe rebStartup("[]"). But that would be a very limited set of options...just maybe some of the things that affect low-level startup in environment variables now.
 
 
4 hours later…
12:19 PM
0
A: In Rebol PARSE, how to check for begin of input?

joingMaybe not exactly what you want, but finding the first match can be done by the following. You have to search for the pattern of complement to "b" followed by "a". >> text-to-searh: "jjjj ball adran" >> b*: complement charset "b" >> parse/all text-to-search [ any [ b* #"a" | "a" hit: to end |...

 
1:17 PM
I have some concerns with 0-length paths.
(1) What about '/ :/ /: ? Are they 0-length lit-, get-, and set-paths? Do they mean anything anymore?
(2) What about /// //// //// etc.? Are they no longer available for words either?
(3) "" {} are 0-length strings, () [] are 0-length somethings, but I'm leery of single-character such ... should # be a 0-length issue? What about $, is that a 0-length number?
 
@MarkI :/ and /: didn't mean anything in Rebol2 or R3-Alpha (Red supports them as GET-WORD! and SET-WORD! respectively). '/ is a quoted zero length path. It could be supported that :/ is a zero-length GET-PATH! and /: as a zero length SET-PATH!, however I'm still pondering if the idea of GET and SET should be more broadly applied to more types of things, and that :foo/bar: is (for instance) just a plain PATH! with a GET-WORD! in position 1 and a SET-WORD! in position 2.
@MarkI Those make terrible words and create ambiguity, e.g. is ///// a PATH! e.g. make path! [// / //], or other variations. Which is another reason why // is good being reclaimed for commenting purposes.
 
Get-word in position 1 would completely change get-paths in a non-backward-compatible way, but I guess you knew that ...
 
@MarkI # being a zero-length issue isn't a terrible idea as far as I'm concerned.
But it's not a tremendous priority to decide that.
 
Sorry, but I must most strongly disagree. Your C/C++ bias is getting the better of you. C got comments WRONG. Both /* */ and // are TERRIBLE for comments, they look too much like correct syntax.
3
If you must, and you object to ; as being "invisible", then you can use ";//" and presto, there's your // comments.
 
@MarkI It's not a C or C++ bias as they're used in other languages. In fact, I'd argue that the fact that C (which very grudgingly takes things from C++) taking // for comments is a good testimony to its goodness. The forum thread explains various reasons for the improved visual properties: forum.rebol.info/t/deciding-on-an-alternative-comment-syntax/…
/* */ is not being considered.
To advocate for //// being a good WORD! shows you really don't have much credibility in this discussion.
The complaint about ; is largely about ugliness. And ;// is ugly, as ;; is ugly, as ;-- is ugly.
 
1:30 PM
I reviewed the forum. Again. The only thing // have going is that you think they look better than semi-colon. "Because other languages have it" is mostly the WRONG reason to do anything. And bending other aspects of the perfectly-good slash handling we have now to make it possible is twice wrong. Sorry.
 
Well, you saying I'm wrong doesn't make me wrong. I have a coherent model which is pushing the language ahead and making it dance and sing, and you may continue not developing things and living in the universe where a////b is, uh, whatever you think it needs to be.
#//goodluckwiththat////
Semi-colon is not targeted for any other use, so the only real effect you would notice is that // isn't modulus, but mod being infix is clearer and doesn't introduce the problems of someone going //: make object! [/: 10] and then saying //// etc.
And that zero length paths aren't invisible.
Believing that // looks like correct syntax is a belief you can soon get over; and the future users of the system won't be coming in expecting it to be correct syntax.
/* is a REFINEMENT! and */ is now a length-1 PATH!
 
1:55 PM
// looks like a mistake to me ;-)
 
@HostileFork No, I certainly did not mean to say you are wrong, I only meant some aspects of the idea seem wrong to me (and some seem twice wrong). I apologise if I have offended. As you are hopefully well aware, I am more than impressed with the level and scope of your work on this, so please do not take one criticism of one idea as meaning I don't like any of the directions you are taking. That is simply not true.
 
@MarkI No problem. But do think it through, because, I do think there needs to be a representation for 0-length and 1-length paths. And it seems problematic to me to have words with embedded slashes in them. This solves the problems at what seems no real perceptible cost.
People who don't care for the // as a comment don't have to use it. But I think it will be a win for many people. We'll have to see what the future of Rebol users look like -- if there are any. But if there are any, I think that it will be web programming that will bring them in.
And as I've stated before, this is actually an emergent area where Rebol may have a potential leg up. WebAssembly may tip the balance to where languages are loaded with the ease of loading a JavaScript library. So a language that's small and powerful and thought-out might become the .wasm file people want to pull in.
 
2:13 PM
And yes, there are difficulties with putting slash-words in paths. But there are lots of things that can't syntactically go in paths (urls, slash-dates, and set-words, to name the most obvious ones), so in no way does that instantly imply that having slash-words is a stupid idea. Saying that wanting slash-words makes me not worth respecting is insulting and hurtful, so now it's your turn to apologise.
@HostileFork Yes, I understand the need for "bringing in" people. And yes, I would be willing to sacrifice some aspects of the language to do that, if absolutely necessary. But I have yet to be convinced that // comments are in that category.
 
@MarkI I didn't say you weren't worth listening to in general--but on this point. In any case, all right, sorry. But expect friction when speaking up rarely and going very boldedly into things that I feel are more or less decided.
 
@HostileFork Thanks, no problem, and fair enough. But expect me to continue at least for a while on this one, it is big to me.
 
Slash words really pretty much have to be all slashes, and I don't think they have much of a payoff.
 
Yes they have to be all slashes, and that is a big payoff IMO.
 
//=//// I'M FOND OF THIS AS A COMMENT DIVIDER /////////////////////////=//
;;;;;;;;;; I HAVE NOTHING BUT BAD THINGS TO SAY ABOUT THIS ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
 
2:22 PM
I am sure lots of people are as fond of // comments. But will the lack of them turn them off Rebol? I am not so sure.
 
Bugs the heck out of me every day.
 
I think I can see that :)
Are you old enough to have programmed in assembler? That was my introduction to ; comments, and probably why I like them as much as I do. Good times ...
 
Case study of me as one, add in @Edoc you have two, and already those are two of the most important people in Rebolverse at the moment. :-)
 
Hey! I'm chopped liver?
 
2:24 PM
I thought so.
 
Well no one is taking away semicolon, as I've said. At least not in the foreseeable future.
 
ASCII is so small as it is, I think it is a major hurdle to be able to disrequire (?) 3 of its 32 symbols (semicolon, backslash, and comma), that's more than 10 percent of them!
 
Comma may need to get some new purpose. I dunno. The "visual similarity to period" argument is a decent one, but then I and 1 and lowercase L are similar...so do we make those all synonyms?
 
 
8 hours later…
10:34 PM
Grr. Govt website has switched from http to https using TLS 1.2 rendering rebol useless
And Ren-c can't do TLS 1.2 either.
 

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