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12:39 AM
@GrahamChiu Woo. Trick seems to work. Still more to do, but, that's a good sign.
2
 
GPL3 ??
 
Yup.
Doesn't mean an app written in it needs to be GPL, just derivations of the console itself.
 
Want to change the logo?
from the inverted Y to
 
I had a logo concept that, now that Red's out of the picture, might be easier...
 
Ren (Chinese: 仁; pinyin: rén; Wade–Giles: jen) is the Confucian virtue denoting the good feeling a virtuous human experiences when being altruistic. Ren is exemplified by a normal adult's protective feelings for children. It is considered the outward expression of Confucian ideals. Yan Hui, one of the Four Sages, once asked his master to describe the rules of ren. Confucius replied, "One should see nothing improper, hear nothing improper, say nothing improper, do nothing improper." Confucius also defined ren in the following way: "wishing to be established himself, seeks also to establish others...
 
12:47 AM
 
When we all work on ren-c we all feel very virtuous :)
 
I had derived something from that, but now it could be derived focusing on Rebol, so the rake could make the brackets and the O can be made of rock
 
Just missing the paper
Coding principles ""One should see nothing improper, hear nothing improper, say nothing improper, do nothing improper."
 
So before I'd used a program called MoleBox to pack things up as a single executable, with the DLLs and such
But that has gone out of business. The other solutions either I couldn't get to work or they were basically VMs with a full OS. :-/
@Adrian had posted about some Qt efforts to do thinner static linked builds, so I guess I should look into that
 
@HostileFork efforts or done?
 
12:53 AM
@GrahamChiu I don't know the status. I've not looked into things lately. I learn a little bit at a time, such as them dropping MinGW and switching to clang in 5.9 for Qt Creator. It seems they're dropping 32-bit on Windows, too.
 
 
3 hours later…
4:15 AM
@HostileFork glad to see ren up and running =)
 
 
2 hours later…
6:17 AM
@JacobGood1 Thread issues resolved, but there's more testing. The goal, which I mentioned, is 3 Travis builds of x64 Ren Gardens... and one thing about you asking for a nearer term executable is, I really do want to pack these things up in some way or another to be "zero install"
I guess, if you convince people sudo apt-get ren-garden is a good idea, it can happen
As per @Adrian's mention, static light Qt builds of things are more accessible now: blog.qt.io/blog/2017/05/31/qt-lite-qt-5-9-lts
So perhaps we should consider just static linking
5.4 MB base
So it would be about 6 MB
I suppose those are supposed to be real-world static linking stats
Anyway, it's looking good, and in general switching away from the idea that the C++ binding ever had to be able to read the structure of cells, is going to make it easier to repurpose between Red or Rebol... but the dropping of the Red logo from the boot screen is not so much that you can't use the C++ lib for Red, but that the GUI console is going to be Rebol specific. No illusions about shared mission anymore.
 
 
2 hours later…
8:00 AM
@HostileFork, can you say more about the threading you mentioned?
@HostileFork , is this the separate contexts you already had in Ren Garden, improved?
 
@Adrian Ren Garden was actually begun before Ren-C. Red was the initial target, and R3-Alpha was spliced in as the evaluator. I knew very little about what was going on. One thing that it had was the idea of protecting against stack overflows by means of capturing a variable address at a top point in the stack, and then trying to compare that against addresses based on assumptions regarding the architecture growing up or down.
This is not a guarantee in the C standard, but practically speaking, there aren't that many architectures that don't lay out memory in either an upwards or lower address space contiguously.
But, even under this model, each thread has its own address space
So it's like each time you switch threads, if you're using some address bound to try and determine a stack overflow, you need to switch that address.
I'm not totally clear on how v8 isolates work, but, they do require threads to lock the isolate before using them, which would be a good time to set up such state
In any case, there was never any intention to be fancy with threads, but the GUI and worker threads were wishing to do evaluations, just not simultaneously.
But still, operating on the same data.
 
So that's what you had already added to Ren Garden, no?
 
A lazy way out would be to say the GUI thread could never speak in terms of Rebol abstractions, and it would always have to dispatch to the worker thread... e.g. the REPL would spawn a thread based on a string, and receive a string back... vs. being able to pass values
Nothing new got added, just trying to make what was there before more legit, given how finicky the interpreter keeps getting for the sake of pesky "correctness"
And, it's looking good right now, as a workaround that permits the working model.
 
8:20 AM
Are you thinking about this with the possibility of incorporating libuv somewhere down the road?
or will the latter not be affected by the way this thread separation works?
 
8:41 AM
@Adrian Not really relevant
The main issue here is just GUI/worker separation
But I didn't want the GUI thread to be crippled to the point that only the worker owned the evaluator
It could be done; where the GUI only spoke in C structures or strings or what not, and the evaluator thread always had to parse that, but this is not very forward looking for debugging and such; it's more convenient if they can exchange values or "pointers" into the interpreter state
 
So there would be one evaluator shared by multiple worker threads?
 
@Adrian Right now there's only one GUI and one worker, and they do not attempt to do evaluations simultaneously. When the GUI is rendering or such, it hopes its work doesn't take so long as to require a thread to allow cancellation. While the worker is running, the GUI promises not to do evaluations, but all the visual state is scrollable and copy/paste-able and such.
Mechanically speaking, it would not be technically that prohibitive for multiple interpreters to be spawned.
And the GUI could, when it seemed safe, lock any one of those for small evaluations to do UI presentation, when it wasn't running code otherwise.
But, as I've said in the past, to actually run these threads simultaneously on the same data is a problem.
And this is not a new problem; javascript can't do it, python can't do it, ruby can't do it, etc...
Higher level languages with parallelism have to sacrifice things to get it
 
 
1 hour later…
10:15 AM
@johnk any progress using my script?
 
 
3 hours later…
12:50 PM
@GrahamChiu sorry, I've not had much spare time
 

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