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2:56 AM
@RebolBot
print {@RebolBot hello}
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print "@RebolBot hello"
@RebolBot hello
 
I see you don't want to greet yourself
 
@kealist the @rebolbot bit has to be at the start of the message
 
3:16 AM
Saves infinite loops :-)
 
@johnk yea, :) I wasn't considering that, but was trying to have fun
 
Speaking of fun what do you think to the idea of a "Speak in Rebol day" for this room? We could quickly modify the bot to complain if the values used in chat were not valid rebol.
We would have to add an exception for invalid email! such as @johnk and smilies, but other than that it is would make an interesting testement to the readability of the language
Commas would be problematic as well.
 
3:48 AM
Could always use bald smilies for a day
@rebolbot do to-block "(:-)"
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> to-block "(:-)"
== [(:-)]
@AstDerek Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 1937 so chat away!
 
@AstDerek Hi. Have you heard of Rebol or Red before?
 
@joh
@johnk nope, I'm looking active rooms cause I wanted to ask a quick question to some git guru
*looking for
 
An exciting array of announcements for Red is coming soon!

* Doc plans to be announcing the release of the next milestone version of Red
* Bo and Kaj will be announcing the initial release of the first commercial product written entirely in Red
* A donation-multiplying campaign to help fund Red development will be announced
* Bo will be announcing some information on the next commercial product planned to be built with Red
 
@Respectech Great news :)
@AstDerek No git experts here today (as far as I know) But we can teach you lots about rebol
 
4:06 AM
@johnk thanks, but today is leg day, and you know nobody should skip leg day
 
4:19 AM
@AstDerek When you have your new legs come back and then we'll teach you some rebol :-)
@rebolbot
tomorrow: now + 1
print ["Goodbye @AstDerek maybe see you" tomorrow/date ]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> tomorrow: now + 1 print ["Goodbye @AstDerek maybe see you" tomorrow/date]
Goodbye @AstDerek maybe see you 10-Aug-2013
 
 
1 hour later…
5:46 AM
@WayneTsui Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Sadly you won't be able to talk to us at present. You need a few more reputation points on Stackoverflow to join these chat rooms. If you answer some questions, or ask some, we might be able to help by upvoting you. In the meantime, have a look at a Rebol introduction.
 
 
1 hour later…
0
Q: What exactly happened when not using "copy" to deal with a string?

WayneTsuiThere is a function as blow, the purpose is when calling it, it would return a string having insert the arguement value between two stars. star-name: func [name /local stars] [ stars: "**" insert next stars name stars ] print star-name "test" ;*test* print star-name "this" ;*thiste...

 
@SoleSoul Does it just bundle the exe with the script, and just unpack and run them at run time?
 
@GrahamChiu I think so.
 
@SoleSoul So, not really how the encappers work
 
@GrahamChiu Of course it's not so good because it uses the temp folder. I should have asked: Is this the best free method we currently have to bundle a Rebol script in a single exe?
 
7:20 AM
@SoleSoul I don't know of any other free ways .. but because the script is unpacked, the source is now visible ... if you don't mind that.
 
@GrahamChiu I'm new to Rebol. I didn't know that the encapper's goal was to hide (?) the source code. I thought it was to make a script portable.
What does the encapper do anyway? How is the source protected? It is not so much harder to extract a script from inside an exe.
nvm, I found the page that describes Rebol 2 encapper.
 
@SoleSoul It's generally used to hide source for commercial programs. The encapper AFAIK uses encryption on the source which is then attached to the rebol binary. At runtime it decompresses, and decrypts
 
@GrahamChiu Thanks
 
AFAIK, even Rebol Tech can't break an encapped script ( or, in the past they have said it's very difficult )
 
Interesting, since the decryption happens at run time.
I'll read about that
Can you help me with an error message? I'm trying to use the tray.r lib for Rebol 2. The function add-tray expects a tooltip and an icon. I don't know what I'm supposed to supply as an icon.
I tried to load an image but it says:
Script Error: add-tray expected tray-icon argument of type: image integer
What is this type?
 
7:27 AM
Since the encapper requires a license key, I presume it uses the licence key as part of the encryption and decryption process
tray.r is where?
 
Nice announcement of an announcement Bo!
 
@SoleSoul Never seen that script before .. @cyphre does come on here from time to time
It looks like it creates its own icon if you don't supply one of the right size ( 16x16)
 
Ok, thank you.
When I pass it an integer it doesn't complain, but I don't think anything happens.
 
I would pass any image to it to see if it resizes the image as it looks like it does
 
7:39 AM
@GrahamChiu Heh! It works...
lol
Thanks
 
I looked at the create-icon function
 
@GrahamChiu It still takes me time to make sense out of a Rebol source code. I don't understand most of it so it's harder but I'll learn.
 
integers will load stock icons
@SoleSoul
 
@BrianTiffin Oh, ok. How do I know which integers are supported?
Bruteforce? :)
3 is supported
5 also
7 also
 
Documentation?
 
7:47 AM
yeah, sorry not really a Windows guy, but there is a list somewhere
 
@BrianTiffin Hey, did you attend the Rebol/red conference in Montreal?
 
@iArnold I don't think there are any docs about this tray support script.
 
tray.r is a nice sample of Windows coding. Atta be Cyphre
no, last minute snaggles :-(
so close.... :(
@GrahamChiu
 
Too bad. Perhaps it is possible to create a script to test some and seek supported limits?
 
@BrianTiffin I'm usually on Archlinux but for learning Rebol I find it easier on Windows because there is better support for it.
 
7:51 AM
@BrianTiffin Cobol conference at the same time?
 
Now I have to find out how to add a menu and change the icon in run time.
 
0
A: What exactly happened when not using "copy" to deal with a string?

Graham ChiuIf you use a set-word on a series, then the default behavior is to allocate the memory for that series just the once. This allows you to use that as a static variable that persists between function calls as you have found. If you won't want that behavior, then you need to explicitly copy the se...

 
Look to windows docs, there will be lots. I'm guessing at least 8 icons stock, question marks and exclaims, and info and umm... @SoleSoul
tray.r is pretty neat, grand starting point for anyone playing Windows.
@GrahamChiu; nope not even. Just that weekend got overtaken by events. So close... Hopefully not a once in a life chance to meet the rebols.
Umm, does this chat room have Ctrl-s mode?
 
8:10 AM
@BrianTiffin Thanks. I'll keep trying to read it.
 
well, have good, everyone. out.
 
8:27 AM
Would people upvote Wayne's question stackoverflow.com/questions/18141674/… so he can chat .. thanks
 
9:23 AM
0
A: What exactly happened when not using "copy" to deal with a string?

LadislavIn the case of the function there is just one "**" string definition. That definition is used by LOAD just once, since LOAD is run just once to translate the code to Rebol internal form - a block. It is true that the assignment occurs twice if you call the function twice, but the assignment does ...

 
Was SO down for everyone else just a bit ago?
 
No, I didn't notice anything special.
 
It was down hard for me. Both on my office computer and my home computer.
Two different networks, Internet providers, etc.
 
Maybe I didn't try in this time frame, although I didn't close this browser tab since a few hours ago.
 
10:23 AM
@GrahamChiu Were you just playing with the bot by any chance?
 
@johnk Nope .. been watching Rasp Pi XBMC
what's happened with her?
 
Bounced and restarted a couple of times around an hour ago
Her uptime is usually very good.
 
Hmm. If SO were down as mentioned above, that might have caused a http error
 
@GrahamChiu Ah, that sounds likely
 
We need a better prot-http !
 
10:30 AM
I wonder if attempt or try can catch the error?
 
@johnk the problem is that it is async, and there are two async handlers in operation
so this has made it hard to trap both async handlers ...
which is good because it tells us this is not a good way to write a prot-http!
 
@GrahamChiu Is it time that we started trying to rewrite it?
 
@johnk It's on @earl's personal trello to do list
 
@earl's got a lot on his plate with call and emscripten
Trello is growing on me trello.com/earl/cards
 
interesting ..didn't know you could do that.
Hmm. Like the new features too!
 
10:46 AM
Card ageing has a pirate mode. Untouched cards turn yellow and crinkly with old age. Great.
Who is a trello admin for our board, can we turn it on?
 
11:26 AM
@cyphre I understand that you wrote the tray.r script. It looks really useful, but as a beginner in Rebol it's a bit hard for me to understand how to use it from the source code. Is there any example of an application using it?
Thank you!
 
11:38 AM
@johnk I'm an admin I think ... so I should turn it on tomorrow after some sleep!
 
@Serafeim Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 1281 so chat away!
 
Hi @Serafeim. Have you heard of rebol?
 
 
1 hour later…
12:58 PM
posted on August 09, 2013 by Ladislav

[Comment] In the core-tests suite.

 
 
1 hour later…
2:00 PM
Hello @iArnold. How go videos? :-)
 
2:10 PM
hi Fork. bit too busy now to make new ones, sorry.
 
@iArnold Takes a while. I'm editing Carl's talk and it's just insane number of edit points--two camera angles, slides, lots of... things to fix.
Looked like a good start, so hopefully you can get back to it.
 
2:40 PM
Greetings @WayneTsui ... you can chat! What brings you to Rebol?
 
3:08 PM
@HostileFork Jerry Tsai from Taiwan. Maybe you know him.
 
@WayneTsui Welcome here, sure everybody knows about Jerry, he's a long-time member of the community.
 
@WayneTsui I know of Jerry, but I don't think he's made it to this chat yet! He wrote a book that actually sold an impressive number of copies in China...
@WayneTsui Did you read the book or just he personally convinced you to look into the language?
 
@HostileFork yes! I follow him on Weibo, and he had marketed his book on Weibo. Weibo is Chinese Twitter.
 
@WayneTsui Cool. Well you bumped into one of those kind of foundationally weird things about Rebol in your question... the modifies-by-default nature is a performance decision. It generally doesn't copy without you asking it.
The way I encourage people to look at Rebol, though, is not so much worrying about whether you like or don't like that kind of thing. Because it can change, and does. It's a language you can bend to your will, and dialects are where it's at. Seen Parse yet?
 
@HostileFork Yes, I have wrote some short programmes using parse. It's amazing. I am not good at Regular Expression. So I like parse very much. :)
 
3:23 PM
@WayneTsui I can't stand regular expressions. Parse is great. Have you noticed, for instance, that Parse works on BINARY! too?
@RebolBot
parse #{FFFFFFDECAFBAD0000000000} [some #{FF} copy data to #{00} (print data)]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse #{FFFFFFDECAFBAD0000000000} [some #{FF} copy data to #{00} (print data)]
#{DECAFBAD}
== false
 
@HostileFork Cool! I have not using it this way.
 
@WayneTsui Well don't hesitate to ask questions, the loyal bot lets us demo right here. And we have a JavaScript build of Rebol too, so that's about to take off... soon-ish. (For the moment, this is mostly a volunteer effort so our timescales aren't as fast as we might like them to be.)
And as the stars say on the right (if you're in the browser, if not here's the list)... Red is cutting its teeth on commercial applications now.
Does anyone know if Carl would still identify himself as "Rebol Technologies CTO"... for instance, if making a title card for him in a video at a Rebol conference? :-/
He works at Roku now but I assume he got them to sign some kind of thing saying that his work there is independent of RT.
 
3:45 PM
@HostileFork I know Red! Jerry mention Red in his book and Weibo. @DocKimbel
 
@WayneTsui Moving along at a good clip, I think it represents the future of Rebol-like languages... though I encourage coherence in the community. The goals and beliefs have too much overlap to allow fragmentation, for instance incompatible data format decisions... we have little examples like that Red needs a way of expressing a hexadecimal literal INTEGER! value and Rebol doesn't do that yet. Letting things like that make a data file not loadable by both languages would be a shame.
JSON was strongly inspired by Rebol, but we can do better. e.g. Ren
 
@WayneTsui Yep, there's a page on Red in the book, Jerry sent me a copy. There's a lot of graphics, so I can at least understand something. :) The book itself is great, I wish we had an english version of it.
 
4:05 PM
@DocKimbel It's a great book. I learned Rebol by it. Hope he will translate it to english.
 
@WayneTsui There was a French book that was translated to English by @PeterWAWood, so perhaps a market for it... although things are getting a bit shaken up. People aren't sure whether to retreat to the known-quantity that is Rebol 2, the evolution and open source Rebol 3, or Red. I myself try to pretend Rebol 2 does not exist.
 
@HostileFork I did not learn Rebol 2. For practice, I have rewrotten some r2 code which I found on the web site to r3. Rebol 3 code is rare.
 
@WayneTsui Yeah, Rebol 3 has been in alpha for... too long. :-) It's time to nail things down so people use it for serious work.
@WayneTsui what kind of stuff are you doing? Do you blog about it? It might be the kind of thing off our radar if it's not in English...
 
4:25 PM
@HostileFork Just some snippets. I did not blog it.
 
@WayneTsui If you're into experimenting, you might try Rebmu. Heard of it? Dr. Rebmu is quite the character. :-) The Reversible Reverser ... Hourglass ... etc. :-)
So I don't really like the PRINT and PRIN distinction. I think PRIN should be PRINT/ONLY. Hahaha, just kidding. But I do think maybe a refinement on the literate word PRINT should come into play instead of using a "word" like PRIN.
 
@HostileFork Thanks a lot. I'll try it! :-)
 
How about PRIN => PRINT and PRINT => PRINT/LINE ? It's as readable as print-line, same number of characters. Then perhaps "blocks are treated as lines" so if you pass print a block it has to process, it assumes you want a line ending... but a raw string is just printed with no line ending.
That way you could write PRINT ["Hi"] if you don't like PRINT/LINE "Hi"
But plain old PRINT "Hi" wouldn't throw in the line ending.
 
@HostileFork Interesting proposition. I would replace the /LINE refinement with a /NO-LINE one instead, to be used with block arguments when you don't want the newline.
 
@DocKimbel Hm, that's probably more logical
I was trying to avoid an "/ONLY" but "/NO-LINE" isn't bad
It's not used that often, which is probably why people don't notice how ugly PRIN is
I would say that if my campaign to eliminate /ONLY didn't succeed, we should use /ONLY there. But failure is not an option. :-)
It's actually a good example of something that /only starts to seem like a good idea if you've gone completely Rebol-psychotic, because I actually thought of it first before I caught myself. :-)
So I'm going to kind of have to abandon perfectionism and just post the video of Carl's talk. I could tweak it forever, but instead it's going to have to just be good enough as is, so I can do other things. Maybe next conference can be rigged so it doesn't need as much post work.
I think it's important for symbolic reasons in terms of him coming back to Rebol, but also as he says, it's a real world solution to a problem. Power management using stuff that's off-the-shelf on the market, Rebol webserver... tune your water heater from an iPad... useful stuff and the existing software is probably based on dinosaur methodology
@DocKimbel I'll get to your talks next, should be easier I hope.
 
5:16 PM
@Vlad Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 36 so chat away!
 
Heya @AstDerek ... know any Rebol?
 
@HostileFork Nope, I'm here to learn a bit
 
@AstDerek Ah. Well, tell us what you know now and we'll try to fill in the blanks. :-)
 
@RebolBot
you: "everybody"
print ["Hello " you]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> you: "everybody" print ["Hello " you]
Hello  everybody
 
5:18 PM
When you give print a block, it puts the spaces in for you.
 
It means some formatting is lost?
 
@RebolBot
print {"Also," noted {@RebolBot}, "Curly braces are pretty good string delimiters because matched pairs are still held inside the string constant."}
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print {"Also," noted {@RebolBot}, "Curly braces are pretty good string delimiters because matched pairs are still held inside the string constant."}
"Also," noted {@RebolBot}, "Curly braces are pretty good string delimiters because matched pairs are still held inside the string constant."
 
@AstDerek If you need things to be more fine-grained, then you can pass print a string.
@RebolBot
you: "everybody"
print rejoin ["Hello " you]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> you: "everybody" print rejoin ["Hello " you]
Hello everybody
 
5:20 PM
But in Rebol, the functions can introspect the types they get and do different things. If PRINT gets a "block" of data (think lisp-style symbolics in a series) then it interjects the spaces, but if it sniffs the type and finds it's a string it just takes it literally.
@AstDerek Being able to act differently based on the types is a big strength of Rebol and it has a lot of types. It's a dense lexical space. Check this out.
@RebolBot
copy/part to string! read hostilefork.com 64
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> copy/part to string! read hostilefork.com 64
== {<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "}
 
So it notices things of patterns like foo://blah.blah/blahblah and says "oh that's a 'URL!'" Then READ can detect that when it gets called, and do something. It's extensible.
In this case, the first 64 characters of the source of my homepage.
This rich vocabulary of types is sort of a set of tinkertoys for what we call "dialecting"
 
is it a dialect, as a non complete language?
 
@AstDerek Hm? Well, Rebol is Turing complete when you fire it up, but dialects don't have to be. "Dialect" just means that anything... an integer or symbolic term... can be ascribed meaning in the context of the expression. Take parse, for instance.
@RebolBot
parse "aaaabbbbbccc" [4 "a" some "b" any "c"]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse "aaaabbbbbccc" [4 "a" some "b" any "c"]
== true
 
5:28 PM
a{4}b+c*
 
@AstDerek So parse is this operation that took two parameters. One was a string to process, and the other a block of symbols. In that block of symbols we see an integer, followed by a string, followed by a word, followed by a string, another word, and another string.
@AstDerek You're sharp, I see. :-) Perhaps I'll have to raise the bar, by pointing out (a) that's illegible and (b) it doesn't have a good expansion model.
 
@HostileFork it'd be practical to implement a program or service using rebol?
@HostileFork Rebol looks similar to CoffeeScript
 
@RebolBot
a-or-b-rule: ["a" (print {Found an A!}) | "b" (print {Found a B!})]
parse "ababaaqabdba" [some [a-or-b-rule | "q" (print "rules they be a changin'" append a-or-b-rule [| "d"])]]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> a-or-b-rule: ["a" (print "Found an A!") | "b" (print "Found a B!")] parse "ababaaqabdba" [some [a-or-b-rule | "q" (print "rules they be a changin'" append a-or-b-rule [| "d"])]]
Found an A!
Found a B!
Found an A!
Found a B!
Found an A!
Found an A!
rules they be a changin'
Found an A!
Found a B!
Found a B!
Found an A!
== true
 
@AstDerek Rebol is one of those things that takes a while to absorb. It's not really like... anything else. And it's insanely tiny. Under half a meg, zero install
 
5:33 PM
@HostileFork No hurry. Everybody is on holidays anyway. ;)
 
@HostileFork what does this bit do? append a-or-b-rule [| "d"]
 
@AstDerek As for whether you can do something practical or not, we only just found out about a company with like 7 Rebol programmers and they do factory automation for like... Dannon yogurt. There's a small number of people using it in the field, but it does have a bit of a hobbyist/tinkerer/ex-Amiga-developer history... people who look at it for the sake of programming itself. Perhaps pigeonholed as a thought experiment, but it can be used to solve problems.
@AstDerek Changed the rule by appending new symbols to it to accept "d". The | is a symbol for alternates in parse rules, and then it just said "allow Ds". Once you hit a "q" it allows ds.
 
@HostileFork great to think out of the box, to break with the problem of the milk and the eggs
 
@AstDerek Well, Rebol was late to the open source party, just got released in December and a competing open source rival headed up by @DocKimbel had already gained a fair amount of momentum. We live in interesting times, for these languages.
 
@HostileFork got that part about "q" working as a conditional, so when you expanded the expression, you expanded the rule, how do you expand the actions?
 
5:38 PM
@AstDerek To direct the conversation, do you know Lisp?
 
@HostileFork No :( I just know a joke about it
 
@AstDerek Do tell. :-) Well, so the thing is that Lisp is one of the best known "homoiconic" languages, in which the data structure that holds the program itself is also a data structure in the language. It's good for metaprogramming, etc.
 
@HostileFork I'm a self taught programmer, started with MatLab, but know C, a bit of C++, PHP, Obj C
@HostileFork a bit off topic: how do you find time to teach others? I live in Mexico, and it turns really complicated to do it, at least for me
 
But in Lisp, a "series" of symbols/etc. is always in parentheses. Rebol rejected the parentheses as the foundational block type in part because you don't have to hit shift to get a square bracket, so you might notice the logo using the square brackets... lots of nice little touches in Rebol where things like that have been thought out.
@AstDerek I visited Mexico City for a month a couple years ago... had a good time...
I used to work for Microsoft, made a modest amount of money, and now live simply and pursue the general improvement of technology. Everyone here has some reason for being involved, but the time any one person can allocate or not fluctuates. The chat room has been a little quiet after our last conference a couple months ago.
Hm, maybe it was just a month ago. Seems like longer. :-)
@RebolBot
length? [() (a + b + c + d) ()]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> length? [() (a + b + c + d) ()]
== 3
 
5:48 PM
@RebolBot
length? second [() (a + b + c + d) ()]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> length? second [() (a + b + c + d) ()]
== 7
 
@HostileFork came to the room looking for some git guru, this is the most active room
How would you access the keyword second if it was part of a block, to use it as an arg
 
@AstDerek We have um... two of those I think. :-) But I find git questions get answered quick on the Q&A proper. At least, mine have, so far.
 
like: [first second third]
then obtaining the length of each one of those
 
@AstDerek I will make the enigmatic statement "Rebol has no keywords"... but do you want the length of the letters composing the word, or do you want to apply the operation?
 
5:52 PM
@RebolBot
length? segundo [() (a + b + c) ()]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-no-value.html
>> length? segundo [() (a + b + c) ()]
*** ERROR
** Script error: segundo has no value
** Where:
** Near: try load/all join %/users/try-REBOL/data/ system/script/args...
 
@RebolBot
segundo: :second
length? segundo [() (a + b + c) ()]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> segundo: :second length? segundo [() (a + b + c) ()]
== 5
 
is second predefined?
@RebolBot
print second
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-no-arg.html
>> print second
*** ERROR
** Script error: second is missing its value argument
** Where:
** Near: try load/all join %/users/try-REBOL/data/ system/script/args...
 
5:53 PM
Well, there are what we call "natives" but the natives aren't "words" or "keywords"
@RebolBot
help second
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> help second
USAGE:
    SECOND value

DESCRIPTION:
    Returns the second value of a series.
    SECOND is a native value.

ARGUMENTS:
    value
 
@RebolBot
help
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> help
Use HELP or ? to see built-in info:

    help insert
    ? insert

To search within the system, use quotes:

    ? "insert"

To browse online web documents:

    help/doc insert

To view words and values of a context or object:

    ? lib    - the runtime library
    ? self   - your user context
    ? system - the system object
    ? system/options - special settings

To see all words of a specific datatype:

    ? native!
    ? function!
 
@AstDerek So, to make a point of another one of those "Rebol is really different" aspects...
 
@RebolBot
? native!
 
5:57 PM
@RebolBot
foo: func [
    {The first string inside a function specification is where you put your description}
    value [integer! string!] {A string after a parameter lets us describe it, like value}
] [
   print value + 1
]

help foo
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> ? native!
native! is a datatype
It is defined as a direct CPU evaluated function
It is of the general type function

Found these related words:
   !               native!   Returns the logic complement.
   ++              native!   Increment an integer or series index. Return ...
   --              native!   Decrement an integer or series index. Return ...
   ---             native!   Ignores the argument value and returns nothin...
   action          native!   Creates datatype action (for internal usage o...
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> foo: func [{The first string inside a function specification is where you put your description} value [integer! string!] {A string after a parameter lets us describe it, like value}] [print value + 1] help foo
USAGE:
    FOO value

DESCRIPTION:
    The first string inside a function specification is where you put your description
    FOO is a function value.

ARGUMENTS:
    value -- A string after a parameter lets us describe it, like value (integer! string!)
 
You can reflect the source, too. :-)
@RebolBot
foo: func [
    {The first string inside a function specification is where you put your description}
    value [integer! string!] {A string after a parameter lets us describe it, like value}
] [
   print value + 1
]

source foo
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> foo: func [{The first string inside a function specification is where you put your description} value [integer! string!] {A string after a parameter lets us describe it, like value}] [print value + 1] source foo
foo: make function! [[{The first string inside a function specification is where you put your description} value [integer! string!] {A string after a parameter lets us describe it, like value}][print value + 1]]
 
@AstDerek If you've not worked with a "code-is-data" language before, it's pretty trippy, and Rebol really is an evolution of Lisp. It's... much more advanced.
@RebolBot
code: [print 1 +]
append code 2
do code
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> code: [print 1 +] append code 2 do code
3
 
6:01 PM
That's not a great example, because Lisp can do that kind of thing easy. How Rebol has taken this further requires some appreciation of the subtlety.
 
@HostileFork I'm reading a bit about List in wikipedia, list and rebol make me think about core wars
 
@AstDerek lisP => (list Processing). Well it is the snake eating its tail in a sense. But we have some tools if you don't care for that...
@RebolBot
oldprint: :print
print: func [value] [oldprint reverse value]
print "hello"
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> oldprint: :print print: func [value] [oldprint reverse value] print "hello"
olleh

** Script error: reverse does not allow integer! for its series argument
** Where: print do either either either -apply-
** Near: print length? do-commands print do-error prin "OK"

>>
 
@HostileFork that's cheating
 
2 minute rule.
RebolBot is not doing what my interpreter is doing. But the point is, you have functions like PROTECT to stop overwriting things if you don't want them overwritten... it can be layered..
 
6:09 PM
@HostileFork coming from concepts like JIT compiler, is like Rebol (or Lisp) didn't compile sources, always accessing the definitions
 
@RebolBot
help protect
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> help protect
USAGE:
    PROTECT value /deep /words /values /hide

DESCRIPTION:
    Protect a series or a variable from being modified.
    PROTECT is a native value.

ARGUMENTS:
    value (word! series! bitset! map! object! module!)

REFINEMENTS:
    /deep -- Protect all sub-series/objects as well
    /words -- Process list as words (and path words)
    /values -- Process list of values (implied GET)
    /hide -- Hide variables (avoid binding and lookup)
 
@AstDerek Yup, and I'm a big believer in checking everything ahead of time, I love compilers and not having to wait until code happens to incidentally fail to know it's not working. But Rebol is the first interpreted language I think has enough to offer where you can really argue it can be made okay because there's some other benefits that emerge prominently.
 
@HostileFork what was the quote before print
'print
 
@RebolBot
apple: [some ['banana | 'pear]]
parse [pear pear banana orange] [apple | 'orange]
 
6:14 PM
@RebolBot
apple: [some ['banana | 'pear]]
parse [pear pear banana orange] [apple | 'orange]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> apple: [some ['banana | 'pear]] parse [pear pear banana orange] [apple | 'orange]
== false
 
@RebolBot
apple: [some 'pear]
parse [pear pear banana orange] [apple 'banana 'orange]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> apple: [some 'pear] parse [pear pear banana orange] [apple 'banana 'orange]
== true
 
@RebolBot
parse [apple banana orange] ['apple 'banana 'orange]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse [apple banana orange] ['apple 'banana 'orange]
== true
 
6:15 PM
@HostileFork first approach is wrong because it evaluates the whole list against 'orange
~~wrong~~, I mean, false
 
@AstDerek Well, the alternate clause needs to be inside the SOME, not outside it
@RebolBot
apple: [some ['banana | 'pear]]
parse [pear pear banana] [apple | 'orange]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> apple: [some ['banana | 'pear]] parse [pear pear banana] [apple | 'orange]
== true
 
@RebolBot
apple: [some ['banana | 'pear]]
parse [orange] [apple | 'orange]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> apple: [some ['banana | 'pear]] parse [orange] [apple | 'orange]
== true
 
While there are certainly bugs in Rebol, if we're doing off the cuff examples here, it's usually Rebol that's right. :-)
@AstDerek But the apostrophe is what distinguishes a "literal word" from a "word". By default it's the use-mention distinction... but again, it's really just another tinker-toy. It can mean what you want if you are a function getting a block of symbols, and you can interpret it how you wish.
 
6:23 PM
@RebolBot
length? first ['first]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> length? first ['first]
== 6
 
@RebolBot
length? first [first]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> length? first [first]
== 5
 
@RebolBot
length? first [first[first]]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> length? first [first [first]]
== 5
 
6:25 PM
@RebolBot
length? first ['first[first]]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> length? first ['first [first]]
== 6
 
@AstDerek Good examples, and I actually feel like string conversions of symbols should not include their symbol class specifiers... there's more than literal words, there's also set-words and get-words, and this is part of the whole weirdness. Colon isn't an assignment operator, at all in fact.
@RebolBot
length? [a: 10]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> length? [a: 10]
== 2
 
@RebolBot
type? first [a: 10]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> type? first [a: 10]
== set-word!
 
6:26 PM
@RebolBot
type? type?
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-no-arg.html
>> type? type?
*** ERROR
** Script error: type? is missing its value argument
** Where:
** Near: try load/all join %/users/try-REBOL/data/ system/script/args...
 
@RebolBot
type? type
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-no-value.html
>> type? type
*** ERROR
** Script error: type has no value
** Where:
** Near: try load/all join %/users/try-REBOL/data/ system/script/args...
 
@RebolBot
type? quote type?
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> type? quote type?
== word!
 
6:28 PM
If you give a function an insufficient number of arguments, it usually complains, there's an exception for things like HELP which allow it to come back with an answer even if you don't ask it what you want help about.
QUOTE is a general purpose way of stopping the evaluator...
@RebolBot
length? QUOTE (1 + 2 + 3)
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> length? QUOTE (1 + 2 + 3)
== 5
 
@RebolBot
length? (1 + 2 + 3)
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-expect-arg.html
>> length? (1 + 2 + 3)
*** ERROR
** Script error: length? does not allow integer! for its series argument
** Where:
** Near: try load/all join %/users/try-REBOL/data/ system/script/args...
 
For example. (Without the QUOTE, it's trying to take the length of the number 6. :-/)
 
@RebolBot
length? [(1+2+3)]
 
6:30 PM
@AstDerek Can you elaborate on that?
 
@AstDerek Needs spaces.
 
@RebolBot
length? [(1 + 2 + 3)]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> length? [(1 + 2 + 3)]
== 1
 
@RebolBot
length? pick [(1 + 2 + 3)] 1
 
@RebolBot
length? {(1 + 2 + 3)}
 
6:32 PM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> length? pick [(1 + 2 + 3)] 1
== 5
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> length? "(1 + 2 + 3)"
== 11
 
@AstDerek Do note that braces are a string delimiter. So that's just a string. In my case, I used pick to get the first element out of a block series containing only one element... a parenthetical series... it contained 5 components. Three of them were integers and two of them were words.
 
@RebolBot
pick [(1 + 2)] 0
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> pick [(1 + 2)] 0
== none
 
@RebolBot
pick [(1 + 2)] 1
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> pick [(1 + 2)] 1
== (1 + 2)
 
6:35 PM
@RebolBot
pick [1 | 2] 1
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> pick [1 | 2] 1
== 1
 
You're going to beeline for some contentious issues. :-) But we have an impending compromise. It's tough because we wanted FIRST FOO to equate with PICK FOO 1 just because of natural numbering.
1st and FIRST seem to go together, while they might not be the "computery" way
@RebolBot
foo: [apple banana orange]
foo/2
 
@HostileFork is none a native?
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> foo: [apple banana orange] foo/2
== banana
 
@AstDerek None is just a four letter word. :-) This is a trick in Rebol, to realize that there is the "word" none and then there is the datatype none!... and only one value of type none!...
@RebolBot
none: :print
none "Hi there @AstDerek, as you can see this might get confusing quickly."
 
6:38 PM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> none: :print none {Hi there @AstDerek, as you can see this might get confusing quickly.}
Hi there @AstDerek, as you can see this might get confusing quickly.
 
So none! is the new nil, which is the new NULL
 
@AstDerek Well, no, none! is a five-letter word. :-)
@RebolBot
none!: :print
none! "I told you this might take some getting used to..."
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> none!: :print none! "I told you this might take some getting used to..."
I told you this might take some getting used to...
 
@RebolBot
help
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> help
Use HELP or ? to see built-in info:

    help insert
    ? insert

To search within the system, use quotes:

    ? "insert"

To browse online web documents:

    help/doc insert

To view words and values of a context or object:

    ? lib    - the runtime library
    ? self   - your user context
    ? system - the system object
    ? system/options - special settings

To see all words of a specific datatype:

    ? native!
    ? function!
 
6:40 PM
@RebolBot
? self
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> ? self
SELF is an object of value:
   system          object!   [product version build platform license catal...
   do-error        none!     none
   none            none!     none
   do-commands     block!    length: 0
   browse          function! Open web browser to a URL or local file.
   func            function! Defines a user function with given spec and b...
   target          unset!    none
   url!            datatype! uniform resource locator or identifier
 
@Ladislav claims I came up with the term "construction syntax", I guess I'll believe him...that's getting to the level of not having this malleability
 
@RebolBot
? none
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> ? none
NONE is a none of value: none
 
@RebolBot
type? #[none]
 
6:41 PM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> type? none
== none!
 
You can't redefine that.
But the point is that none really is just a word, that points to "that"
Until you point it to something else.
@GrahamChiu @JohnK Hey, the bot stripped the construction syntax --^
 
@RebolBot
#[none]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> none
== none
 
@RebolBot
{#[none]}
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> "#[none]"
== "#[none]"
 
6:45 PM
@AstDerek So the bot has a dialect... it/("she") only speaks parseable Rebol. You need a newline if you want code to be evaluated because there's other stuff...
And if the default assumption were code, then the bot dialect wouldn't kick in
@RebolBot xmlflawed for AstDerek
 
@HostileFork Was XML Flawed from the Start? @AstDerek
 
@HostileFork Just like when you stated my expression needed spaces
@RebolBot Yes
 
@AstDerek What do you mean?
 
@RebolBot nothing.
 
@AstDerek Please continue.
 
6:48 PM
@RebolBot ? system
 
@AstDerek Please continue.
 
@RebolBot
? system
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> ? system
SYSTEM is an object of value:
   product         word!     core
   version         tuple!    2.101.0.4.2
   build           date!     26-Feb-2013/18:14:32
   platform        block!    length: 2
   license         string!   {Copyright 2012 REBOL Technologies REBOL is a...
   catalog         object!   [datatypes actions natives errors reflectors ...
   contexts        object!   [root sys lib user]
   state           object!   [note policies last-error]
 
@AstDerek Note that there has been a (questionable) decision to keep increasing Rebol's version number underneath the version "2" until being version 3 is official. :-/ RebolBot is actually using Rebol3 it's just that Rebol3 is version 2.101... until a declared "3"
 
@HostileFork As far as there's a list of features and bug fixes there shouldn't be any problem
 
6:55 PM
@AstDerek Well to be frank with you, the level of rigor is not up to my standards in that department. :-/ But hey, no one said transitioning people over to open source and community governance was going to happen overnight.
 
@HostileFork won't be much of a problem by now, I barely knew this existed. I don't mean others don't know it, but if there's a stable release, the betas can be named anything
@HostileFork maybe you need a codename for this release
 
@AstDerek I liked "BlackZero", in honor of the logo
 
7:28 PM
@HuayinWang Hey there. Your website is hard to test for veracity, it's... marketing-ish. I don't know what multi-touch-attribution is, and am skeptical it's a real thing. But I do like that story about the guy who likes carvings of dragons and then later meets a real one and demonstrates he isn't actually a fan of dragons but rather drawings of them... so I'll let you know you've a typo on your profile URL... currently ".om" instead of ".com"
 
7:49 PM
A version of JeffK's Rebol and the Shell article (applies to Rebol 3 too, natch).
 
@Fork, making a video is a lot of work indeed. Need some quiet space. Not at home in the vacation of the kids. And I had a lot of stuff to learn myself. (I have started an discussion on the Red mailinglist for best practice for creating your directory structure with Red and Red/System and the various contributions and the scripts you write yourself)
@Fork PRI: :PRIN
I see PRIN as unfinished PRINT, no newline at the end. It is ten to hundred times better than PUTS or PRINTF (I really, really, really hate that one) other languages use.
 
@iArnold Yea, video is hard, and even harder when you're having to sort of wing it with A/V you didn't exactly control... the timeline so far... I'm just going to have to call it done here shortly, it's Friday so can't let this drag into another week
@iArnold The job isn't to be sort of better, it's to be the best. :-)
 
@AstDerek Still have that Git question? If so, feel free to open a new room with me for it.
 
Sttt, don't tell anyone!
 
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