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12:24 AM
I could see perhaps a difference in the interface you get—YouTube is recognisable, but is heavily branded and designed to draw you in; Vimeo seems a bit slicker, but is also ultimately a honey pot. Hosting the video, you get more control over presentation. But then you have to host it.
I agree though, the context is more important.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:51 AM
Does anyone have an opinion on this?—I'm considering changing the behaviour of my AltWebForm script.
 
 
1 hour later…
4:02 AM
Trying to figure out how to use gdb, but at least I got r3 up and running in it.
 
4:39 AM
Working version of AltWebForm for Rebol 2 with the above proposed changes.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:51 AM
@earl im not promoting fussing w own player. just hf mentioned "player", so i reacted on that, since in the process getting them up on vimeo, we would have backups on the rebol.net server anyway, we might as well offer both watching and downloading them too.
@HostileFork to make clear why i would like a vimeo copy, is the fact that they have a proper html5 player and a lot better connectivity here, in asia. utube is pretty flaky.
 
7:09 AM
no test suite for it?
here is how rails does it for example: http://guides.rubyonrails.org/form_helpers.html#understanding-parameter-naming-conventions
i think their convention is quite ugly. dot notation is better, but why not use slash, so it looks like a rebol path already in the url? is slash must be encoded in the query string?
@rgchris i specifically recommend u to read the "7.2 Combining Them" section which talks about how to represent array of hashes, like:
<input name="addresses[][line1]" type="text"/>
<input name="addresses[][line2]" type="text"/>
<input name="addresses[][city]" type="text"/>
 
 
2 hours later…
9:33 AM
Sigh. Spontaneous laptop death. It happens I guess. What should I buy?
I do wonder if I really need another laptop or if tablet plus keyboard is a better direction
 
Difficult decision at the moment. I need to get a new machine as well
 
I bought this guy 3.5 years ago for like $600 so it is a little hard to complain
Upgraded to ssd but I'll pull that
I kind of want a surface pro but I also don't want to encourage the proprietary software psychopaths. Also they didn't cut the price on the non Rt machines.
 
Considering a macbook air, but the cost ...
The surface pros will run linux at a push
 
I might just do Bluetooth keyboard on my phone for awhile. My main laptop use case is "too lazy to get out of bed".... Doesn't really justify an expenditure
 
 
3 hours later…
12:28 PM
how do you represent in a script header if the script is for rebol2 or rebol3?
 
12:54 PM
Github webhook handler (in Rebol 2) -- good and save for CI for example
 
1:07 PM
s/save/safe
 
 
1 hour later…
2:20 PM
posted on August 31, 2013 by zsx

This adds native linux 64-bit supports. Tested with github/rebol-test, three progressions and no regression agains master 32-bit found: --- r_2_101_0_4_4_22C633_4E5726.log 2013-08-31 10:01:12.003341307 -0400 +++ r_2_101_0_4_40_183F68_4E5726.log 2013-08-28 09:39:34.563339334 -0400 @@ -4849,13 +4849,13 @@ [0.1 == round/half-down/to 0.15 0.1] "succeeded" [0.2 == round/half-down/to 0.150

 
2:53 PM
@HostileFork I am happy with my Dell 15z i7 GT630M
I think it was around 900 on sale. One of my friends is happy with his Surface Pro
 
 
2 hours later…
4:24 PM
They did drop the Surface Pro, I see, but only by $100
Just don't use a laptop for enough to pay that much, and I have a drawing tablet already
"three progressions and no regression against master 32-bit found". Sounds like good news for 64 bit Rebol. (For those who didn't watch the yogurt talk to the end, zsx is Shixin Zeng, who Atronix has dedicated to Rebol work.)
@johnk Jeebus. $1,484.69 for the 256 GB? No thanks.
I must have risen in search rank recently. Spammers are going nuts. Anyone need coupon codes, or pills for sex? I can hook you up apparently. They're doing this by hand, I've got a pretty good defense against automated spam.
Either the AI is very good now, or more likely... crude human labor is cheap these days. "Here's a list of sites, manually enter comments on them."
 
4:45 PM
@HostileFork Maybe an openpandora ( openpandora.org ) is something for you?
I am orientating for a new laptop, too. Don't think it will be another Mac for the stubbornness of Apple.
 
@iArnold I am torn because I kind of want a tablet but I hate typing on tablets, I'm just too trained on keyboards. I wanted a Nexus 7 anyway but most of my non-desktop is chat and email, I don't really web browse that much
And buying a chromebook seems kind of nuts
I kind of like to have a computer that I can use without a network and do meaningful things. I know that idea is increasingly getting tossed out the window, but still.
 
@HostileFork If the trend continues only dumb terminals remain and computing is all done in gov based and controlled computercenters.
 
@iArnold If you haven't watched the "Chaos Computer Club" hosted talk of Cory Doctorow on "The War Against General-Purpose Computing", you must: youtube.com/watch?v=yYqkU1y0AYc
 
@onetom That doesn't look very Rebolish...
 
And linux on the laptop? Does that work?
I will certainly watch that soon.
 
4:52 PM
@rgchris why?
 
@onetom Rebol doesn't use this[notation][for][paths]—according to Twitter's guide to Percent Encoding, the only symbols that aren't encoded are -._~
 
posted on August 31, 2013 by ladislav

Based on #139. Tested in Linux (0.4.4).

 
Well I'm certainly not buying a Macbook air, that's overpriced ridiculousness. But I must admit the surface RTs are at Playbook level clearance and you can still do stuff with it, most of the stuff I do on a laptop anyway... it's a bit tempting to just take some fire sale thing like that to chat and mail.
 
@iArnold Linux on a notebook has worked fine for me for many a year ...
 
@rgchris no, laaah. i was not showing that for copying that notation. i was just showing it for the use cases and possible data structures u might want to be able to represent. what i was proposing is slashes instead of dots
 
5:04 PM
@onetom I think I'll stick with the dots, aside from being encoded, slashes are too 'noisy' in web forms and webform data.
 
post.tag.=one&post.tag.=two would be post/tag/=one&post/tag/=two
or address/street=jerevois&address/city=hong+kong
then u would access it from rebol w the exact same syntax
@rgchris where did u get that list of non-encoded characters?
 
But I may use the tilde to indicate an array: post.tag~=one&post.tag~=two
Or not.
@onetom Twitter via I think @johnk
 
@rgchris ah, ok, got it
 
5:41 PM
@rgchris what do u mean by noisy, anyway? this kind of data travels in POST request payloads anyway most of the time, so it shouldn't matter. even the web inspector in chrome shows it in a decoded format by default, iirc.
 
5:57 PM
@GrahamChiu Starting to learn a debugging tool. I got the error as a segmentation fault in C, trying to learn how to investigate it.
I'm not familiar with the underlying C structure yet, so this is taking some time to even look at it
Anyone familiar with GDB?
 
@kealist I stopped interactive debugging at the age of AFD, Borland Turbo Debugger and Sourcer...
 
I've never done much with it because most projects I've worked on have not been very large
could afford the print statements and whatnot. However, I don't feel like compiling those into REBOL ;)
 
@kealist the bigger projects i worked on had (unit) test suites, so i didnt have to debug...
@kealist just setup a loop which is constantly compiling rebol when any of the source files change, then it's not to bad sprinkling prints around a lil bit
 
@onetom I am not familiar with test suites so much. But I imagine I would have to make a test for this particular problem, but I don't know what the problem is yet
 
@kealist some crash, isn't it? just automate that crash, so whenever u change the source u can recompile, run and observe the crash with 1 keystroke; preferably directly form your editor
 
6:06 PM
@onetom it is the TCP bug, and haven't been able to lock it down to a simple script yet.
 
under linux/mac i use https://github.com/alexch/rerun for this kind of automation, but those guys say:
"Rerun does not work on Windows. Sorry, but you can't do much relaunching without "fork". -- so im not sure what is the equivalent under windows
 
I am not sure what part of the source to change.
 
@kealist u mean it's not reproducible yet?
 
@i can reproduce it every time, but not with a simplescript
 
@kealist hmmm. i would work on simplifying that script then, because the debugging is hard if u have a too big script as the context. although with dbg u can see a stack trace at least, i guess
that should give some hints how to simplify the script
(but i was not following this quest, so im not really competent on this topic. im just cheerleading for u ;)
 
6:13 PM
@onetom yea, I will work on that. Seems a deep level of wake-up
Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
0x76f0579c in ?? ()
(gdb) bt
#0 0x76f0579c in ?? ()
#1 0x76f055c5 in ?? ()
#2 0x76f8cc48 in ?? ()
#3 0x76f385ff in ?? ()
#4 0x76f055c5 in ?? ()
#5 0x75199b9c in msvcrt!malloc () from C:\Windows\SysWOW64\msvcrt.dll
#6 0x00421363 in Make_Mem ()
#7 0x00421814 in Make_Series ()
#8 0x0042d5fb in Make_Binary ()
#9 0x0042bc16 in TCP_Actor ()
#10 0x00409a10 in Do_Port_Action ()
#11 0x0040922a in Do_Act ()
#12 0x00409364 in Do_Action ()
#13 0x00404457 in Do_Next ()
 
@kealist I don't think that the wake-up has much to do with it. It still very strongly looks like a case of memory corruption. This means that the ultimate failure you see can be rather random.
 
@earl Thank you. I guess I just need to try to to simplify Graham's script more
 
@kealist Right. We need a quicker way to reproduce.
(Meaning: "Yes, that would be very very helpful!" :)
 
Yes, I will work on that. :)
 
6:28 PM
@HostileFork like that one comment to that video:
Apple, he's talking to YOU. How hip does your ileash feel now?
:)
 
6:42 PM
Hi. A quick question. When I put in a script of Rebol 3 the line
i: input
I get this:
** Access error: read failed: [scheme: 'console] reason: 6
** Where: read input do either either either -apply-
** Near: read system/ports/input trim/with line newline line
What does it mean? Do I have to request access to the console?
It's Windows XP
The same works with Rebol2
And it works with Rebol3 if I open Rebol first and "do" the file, but if I run it like "rebol file.r" I get the error.
mm... Do I invoke it wrongly?
 
7:01 PM
@RebolBot
help input
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> help input
USAGE:
    INPUT

DESCRIPTION:
    Inputs a string from the console. New-line character is removed.
    INPUT is a function value.
 
@SoleSoul do you have an example of the script?
 
@kealist Yes! Here it is: "i: input"
 
just one line?
 
Yes
 
7:13 PM
Rebol3:

>> do %input.txt
Script: none Version: none Date: none
sdfdsf
== "sdfdsf"
>> to-string read %input.txt
== "input"
Console:
C:\Users\kealist\Documents\GitHub\rebol\help2>r3-g4d9840f-console.exe input.txt
szfsdf
 
@SoleSoul you mean rebol %file.r do you?
 
@SoleSoul What version of Rebol 3 are you using (system/version, and system/build)?
 
@iArnold mm... I mean "c:\> rebol file.r"
@earl This is the version:
REBOL 3.0 [Alpha Test]

Copyright: 2013 REBOL Technologies
All rights reserved.
Website: www.REBOL.com

Version: 2.101.0.3.1
Platform: Windows win32-x86
Build: 28-Jun-2013/16:18:18
It's the Saphirion build iirc
 
@earl I tried the first. It seems to work.
 
7:19 PM
@SoleSoul Thanks for trying. Seems to be a bug in Saphirion's R3, then.
 
@earl :) Thank you.
Which version should I follow in order to use the latest public build?
Maybe I should say, which build/edition/branch
 
@SoleSoul The rebolsource.net builds automatically track the mainline master branch (github.com/rebol/reobl).
If you need the GUI, you'll have to use Saphirion's builds, for now.
 
Ok
Thanks
BTW, can I try contacting spoj.com in order to ask them if they can kindly add Rebol3 as a supported language?
I don't know if they take requests but I thought I'd ask here first
(it's a programming challenges site. Here are the problems: spoj.com/problems/classical)
 
@SoleSoul Sure, cool. I'd suggest just adding "Rebol" as a language, unless the major version really is significant on their site.
 
@earl they use automated compile-run-test results mechanism so the will have to use an actual version
 
7:34 PM
@SoleSoul Ah yes you're not within rebol so my comment did not make sense.
 
7:52 PM
I've sent them a request. I'll update here if something happens with it.
 
8:16 PM
I'm going to make a Trello note to keep notes on the TCP bug search
Actually, don't know how to make a card. Maybe because I'm not a member
 
@kealist Sign up, lemme know your ID, I'll add you
 
@HostileFork my id appears to be joshuashireman
 
@kealist hm, not finding you... can you send me some sort of profile link?
@SoleSoul Hi!
 
Hi
 
@SoleSoul Did you watch the yogurt video? I'm kind of torn. I can't figure out if it's really interesting or really boring. :-) But David is funny. He sort of makes that point in the Wikipedia pulls
 
8:31 PM
Ok, the opening is cool.
 
Is Systems Integration boring, or not?
 
Stating to watch
 
@earl Thank you
 
@kealist Added you (needed to use your email addr, to find you, strangely enough).
 
@GrahamChiu who else has come across the error? Trying to find another example that causes it
 
8:41 PM
Still watching so it's no boring
 
8:52 PM
@kealist @rebolek, and @earl
@HostileFork I gather that Surface RT pills can only run signed MS OS's. So, you'd be stuck using Windows RT forever
 
@rebolek @earl if I can get any scripts that you've experienced the 9910 error, it would be helpful. I'm trying to compile it all in one place and write info
 
@kealist @earl wrote this script which downloads the r3 binaries using a gui, and if you run it fast enough, it triggers the error. But then it includes the r3-gui 1000s of LOC.
 
@GrahamChiu @kealist That script crashed as well? gist.github.com/earl/447e4e9510a68c308f6b
 
@earl Yes
 
@GrahamChiu Good to know. Maybe just using the async http download code in there will suffice.
Yes indeed.
Quickly triggers a #1412 on Linux for me.
 
8:58 PM
@earl which is why I even used my own http code to make sure it wasn't prot-http
 
@HostileFork It was interesting. The SCADA itself was not, but the parts where he talked about Rebol were.
 
@GrahamChiu @kealist Can you try if that crashes for you on Win32 as well: gist.github.com/earl/b4763f995a4dabc300ed -- I run it against a local webserver as rebol3 httpget-cli.r3 http://localhost:8080/.
 
@earl The error seems to have required file IO as well which is why we thought Carl's stress test doesn't trigger it
 
(If you need quick a webserver for testing: github.com/earl/rebol3/blob/master/scripts/shttpd.r)
@GrahamChiu Only that the R3-GUI-based downloader doesn't involve any file IO.
 
@earl oh? I thought it saved the r3 binary? guess not
 
9:06 PM
@GrahamChiu My original code didn't. But maybe you only observed the crash with some modified version.
 
Ok running it against Cheyenne on 8002
memory use gradually climbing
so we have a leak. Are you seeing that?
 
@GrahamChiu Didn't look for that. Crashes too fast :)
Crashes after 127 requests. Suspicious.
 
hasn't crashed but memory use now at 165k
I restarted it .. memory use starts at about 20k
 
Ok, my crash (the #1412) is an "event queue overflow".
 
9:22 PM
@earl and which one crashes ..? server or client?
 
@GrahamChiu Client; the server is battle-tested already.
(Current Linux/x86 mainline build from rs.net.)
 
Oh .. I thought you were using a R3 server
 
@GrahamChiu Yes. But that server is already rather battle-proven :)
Current Win32/x86 build from rs.net running under Wine crashes after 3997 requests with:
Access error: cannot open: tcp://localhost:8080 reason: -12
** Where: open open do-download forever do either either either -apply-
** Near: open conn port
(The good old -12 we already know.)
 
@earl but that only happens under linux
 
@GrahamChiu Interestingly, it also happens with the Windows binary running under a Windows emulation on Linux :)
 
9:26 PM
Without wine, we get #9910
 
Most likely.
 
anyone tried this on OSX ?
 
Firing up a Win32 VM to try ...
 
using a different tcp stack
Still running and now at 189k
 
Running and growing on Win32 now for me as well.
@GrahamChiu Did you ever watch how big your r3-chat processes get?
 
9:32 PM
@earl Can't remember .. not this big though
But my r3-chat was adding a message to an in memory list so I expected it to grow
 
OSX crashes with #1412 after 127 reqs as well.
 
so exposing a different bug?
 
@GrahamChiu Yes.
Which we already know about: issue.cc/r3/1422
 
@GrahamChiu @earl I don't think Graham's script generally gets much above 20mb of memory from my memory of looking this past week. Should double check though
 
@kealist Ok, thanks.
My httpget-cli on Win32 is currently at 295MB.
 
9:42 PM
@earl @GrahamChiu Actually I am incorrect. Maybe because it never ran long before I looked at task manager and crashed. the two copies I have running now are 90mb and 128mb respectively, but have been running for around 2 hours w/o crash
 
Mine is over 300Mb
 
Too much inconsistency for my taste. Feel like I'm going crazy sometimes, that's why I need to write all this down, so I know what I have done
yesterday and today I've been seeing a new oddity where I run @Graham's script and it complains about https not being there. In the same console if I hit the up arrow and do the script a couple more times, it will start working ok
 
@kealist it only uses https to download Chris' scripts. So you could remove that.
 
Will do so
 
@GrahamChiu At 400MB now. Will probably just crash because running out of memory.
(All the while the server is happily idling away at 2K :)
 
9:49 PM
@earl your web server much be faster than mine.
I'm only on 320mb
 
I'll stop that now. Doesn't look like it helps much.
 
@earl So, any further clues, ideas?
 
@GrahamChiu Your GUI-based downloader still crashes rather quickly on Win32.
(Requires Saphirion's GUI-enabled R3 to work.)
 
@earl yours?
 
@GrahamChiu Well, most likely it's Cyphre's :)
The one with download progress bars and multiple downloads and timer usage.
 
9:56 PM
@earl Ok.
 
Hrmpf. Stupid me.
My latest CLI-based http testcases never starts an event loop. So it never actually reads anything.
So it just creates open TCP ports ...
Well ......... back to the drawing board.
 
@earl httpget-cli.r3? I'm currently running it.
 
@earl a lot of them
 
@kealist Right. Please just ignore it for a moment.
 
@GrahamChiu I think I'm back to not being able to generate the error from your script again. For the last 4 days it was happening after a couple minutes
now, just keeps working :-/
 
10:01 PM
@kealist Yah, you fixed it! :)
 
@GrahamChiu if by 'fixed', you mean 'gave myself a headache', then yes, I fixed it
 
@kealist oh well, giving someone some debugging experience
 
hehe, yea
I think I need to go back to learning Haskell again, so I can feel like I'm accomplishing something
 
I'm still interested in an explanation for these memory leak reports from dr.memory just on starting r3.exe
 
@GrahamChiu me too, I was hoping to be able to find something like that using debugging tools, but I'm kind of clueless. Internet searches haven't helped much
 
10:11 PM
It would be nice if Carl acknowledged this mystery bug
 
I tried posting a comment to his blog about 9910
 
@GrahamChiu I wouldn't worry about that too much. R3 allocates several global / thread-local data structures which it doesn't worry about freeing later.
 
@earl ok. But I think they get worse as we run the tests on my script. @kealist ?
 
@GrahamChiu @earl The number of memory leaks reported by Dr. Memory did increase significantly for his script. It could be the bug we are looking for doing so, or not. Running his script on GDB, occasionally I saw it add a new thread
 
@GrahamChiu I was just talking about supposed leaks just from startup/shutdown. Every "leak" that originates through RL_Init probably isn't a real leak.
There we go!
Insta-reproducible #9910.
Run as before: rebol3 httpget-9910.r3 http://google.com/.
Also leads me to a new theory about what is happening.
 
10:35 PM
@kealist @GrahamChiu See above. Does this crash with #9910 for you as well?
 
@earl Get #1412
 
@kealist On Win32?
 
using console build on Win32
 
Same here. Console build on Win32 with Win7.
Cool. Because #1412 is what I believe you should get :)
 
@earl, not sure what your theory is
 
10:38 PM
I think it overflows the event queue.
And then overwrites whatever happens to be located after the event queue in memory.
#1412 would be a correct error guarding against event queue overflow.
 
so the 1412 doesn't get reported for whatever reason then laters causes something else funny to happen?
and ends up with 9910?
because it has malformed something else?
 
@kealist ditto
 
@kealist Probably a threading/race-condition, yes.
This is the piece of code I have in mind: github.com/rebol/rebol/blob/master/src/core/p-event.c#L86
 

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