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05:15
posted on August 07, 2016

New Cyanide and Happiness Comic

 
1 hour later…
user4196492
06:37
Hey guys, I am working on a personal website for myself. I tried to go ahead and implement some <meta> tags into the page and it immediately messed everything up.

My custom fonts are not recognized.
My background image is not displaying.
I set the margins on my <div>s to 0px and now they are being ignored

By using <meta> tags, are some of the keywords case sensitive?
user4196492
Nevermind guys...I was putting the tags inside my <style> tag
user4196492
problem solved
user4196492
yea that fixed it
user4196492
anyway, I am using four meta tags right now. charset, description, keywords, and author

if I am planning to put this on the Internet, what else should I use?
07:15
I made this jsfiddle.net/bveyL2uf It will overlay a resizable and draggable golden ratio grid over your layout. So you can space out things accordingly.
4
Wes
Wes
07:34
@crypticツ nice :D
08:14
O_o
Apparently, closing and reopening the tab is a different operation than reloading
Works now
Wes
Wes
didn't work for me at first try either
Also, I didn't know you were into thelema @crypticツ
!!wiki thelema
Thelema (/θəˈliːmə/) is a religion based on a philosophical law of the same name, adopted as a central tenet by some religious organizations. The law of Thelema is "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the law, love under will." The law of Thelema was developed in the early 1900s by Aleister Crowley, an English writer and ceremonial magician. He believed himself to be the prophet of a new age, the Æon of Horus, based upon a spiritual experience that he and his wife, Rose Edith, had in Egypt in 1904. By his account, a possibly non-corporeal or "praeterhuman" being that called...
well I don't know what I'm doing, so that's probably the reason.
Wes
Wes
08:16
illuminati!
confirmed!
@crypticツ Fun exercise: Do it without jQuery.
4
*prints out webpage and a golden ratio transparency sheet*
Wes
Wes
08:35
it's easy @crypticツ don't look at the drag & drop api because it's not what it is about
you must do it with mousedown and mouse up
@Wes Do it, and tell me how easy it is (and let's see how you fare under a code review) :P
Wes
Wes
i already did it
i just noticed however that it's also resizable
that is harder indeed
but moving it around in the page is easy
Doing anything is "easy"
Doing it well, though...
I'm actually interested to see if you can manage to fit your knowledge of OOP onto a JavaScript task
Wes
Wes
i do everything well.
you should know by now :P
I've found that very few people do.
Most people I've met can write crazy nice looking (or horrible looking, depending on your perspective) OO code on the server side
But when you take away the "class" and "interface" keywords, it all goes to hell
Wes
Wes
08:40
i'm pretty good with js oop, although i'm stuck with the old js versions
@Wes define "old js versions"
"not ES2015"?
Wes
Wes
old js versions as msie7-compatible js
it's ok. code is clean anyway
@Wes Oh, screw what you do at work
In general
Although yeah, there's no reason to not write good, tested, code, even in IE7
Only debugging is harder
Wes
Wes
literally never used anything newer than that
@Wes Well, then you should.
Wes
Wes
08:42
i don't even know what's new
Because that's like saying you've never used anything past PHP5.1 before.
PHP4 even...
The gap is even more significant than that, probably.
Wes
Wes
i don't abuse client side scripting
i use it wisely
@Wes How so?
(There are all kinds of abuse in this context)
Wes
Wes
if you make sites that are meant to be read rather than being "just advertising" you can't use js much, as you want them to be as simple as possible
also lately i've been only maintaining old sites
so i didn't get chances to try new things
to be honest however, i don't like where js is going
i could be wrong but functional looks like shit to me
and every time it happens pops up on my monitor a video/talk about stuff like angular or react i literally get disgusted by them
i think the js community went collectively insane
but what do i know :P
@MadaraUchiha
@Wes I have one major problem with FP, especially in JS
It's clean, it looks nice, it reads nice, it writes nice, everything
But it's impossible++ to debug
Wes
Wes
08:53
lol
I've tried, I've used it (both the paradigm itself, and libraries to support it) in 3 separate projects
It all works well, until it doesn't.
When it doesn't, you have a single expression consisting of the composition of 20 function references
That you can't step into, can't put a breakpoint on, the best you can do it compose a console.log somewhere and hope for the best.
unit testing value is reduced, because most of the bugs won't be in the tiny functions that do small pieces of work, but in the order in which they are composed, which UT doesn't cover.
In short, until the tooling is better, for me, FP is just a fun looking concept, and not something you can use in production.
React is not functional
It's "more functional" than Angular, sure
But it's OO.
You have components, each component is a class, with a state of its own, with a constructor and methods
Angular is... I don't even want to talk about it.
And yet when I tell people I prefer to develop my own framework, or reuse a framework I've built for a previous project instead of going with React, they look at me as though I feel from the moon.
It seems like a curse of JS, relatively few people actually know the language, rather than the libraries
Wes
Wes
yeah wasn't referring to functional only but anything js
JS in general is a pretty solid language
It's free enough that it doesn't get in the way, and it's flexible enough for you to do abstractions however you like
Wes
Wes
and even js itself i don't like where it's going. weird syntax and shit
like the other day i looked at that @@iterator shit
that's just shit to me
@Wes It's an interface
Wes
Wes
08:58
but again what do i know :P
Symbols are a bit weird, I'll give you that
But they work well for their intended purpose, and have other usecases as well
Wes
Wes
what are symbols?
@Wes Lunch time, be back later :P
Wes
Wes
Functional programming suffers from the owl problem: Step 1. map a function over a list Step 2. build the rest of your fucking app
@Ekn ahahaha omg this is terrible
Ekn
Ekn
09:06
yeah it's really weird, though I haven't used it enough to have err, some proper opinion
pfft why the heck when I hit enter the window scrolls a bit?
I think chrome is effing with me
Wes
Wes
> They’re not little pictures you can use in your code.
let 😻 = 😺 × 😍; // SyntaxError
damn.
Ekn
Ekn
:D heh
Wes
Wes
so they added this just to not add objects as keys? <ironic>objects as keys are so nasty!</ironic>
or members' visibility
btw @MadaraUchiha just yesterday we discussed the maybe monad. nobody knows and can actually explain ("actually" because they make articles and videos about it, even if they can't explain it) why it's better than if/else
09:49
@Wes I'm not that far in
But there are a few people in the JS room that can probably answer that
Specifically, Benjamin Gruenbaum
Wes
Wes
@MadaraUchiha you are a smart person, you should put together an opinion about this stuff. because they try to sell it as the smartest idea ever. i sometimes think people get excited about stuff just because they don't get it / they enjoy a challenge.
@Wes They can sell it all they want
I have a personal rule to not incorporate tech into production unless I have at least 2-3 side projects where I've used it
Otherwise I just get these tiny islands of crap code that I can't easily get rid of
Wes
Wes
ehe
I already gave up (for now) on FP in JavaScript
So I won't be going into that adventure just yet
Wes
Wes
we have too many trends, not enough actual thinking
things don't get discussed properly and i feel people don't even actually read
09:58
@Wes I don't follow trends, well, not blindly anyway
I was super hyped about Redux but then I used it in a few side projects and I realized he took objects and called them "stores", methods and called them "actions" and dispatchers and called them "reducers" and just reinvented singletons...
React is the only FE library in recent years which is actually clever
The rest is almost always $.01 architecture
Which is why I opt to not use them often.
Wes
Wes
i don't even like react. maybe there's something clever in it, but it's hidden behind the totally unneeded bloated shit
@Wes The reason is because people use it for things it isn't meant to do.
React is a view layer.
Instead of talking to DOM, writing components for DOM, using DOM elements, you use React.
React's specific usecase, is when you have multiple components on the page, some share data, some don't, and you don't want to deal with knowing what piece of new data (user events, sockets, AJAX responses, etc) updates which component
So you just "somehow" update a large state object, and React handles the rest, knowing exactly what to render and re-render, handles batching for you, etc.
So you can basically just create a socket, process messages into state, and pass it into React
React will know which components need updating, and which to not touch
You can treat your view as an immutable function of the model, which is a good thing, because it makes unit testing very easy.
Wes
Wes
i wonder what kind of application needs this level of complexity, and i wonder if react handles that complexity in the smartest and most efficient way possible
sounds like orm's. you get several MBs libs that are only good to create crud like applications. try to make complex stuff and they will explode in a fireball
 
1 hour later…
11:27
@Wes React doesn't handle complexity.
React is a view.
Your model is supposed to handle the complexity, which React doesn't presume to handle, which is great.
 
3 hours later…
14:37
hey guys

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